--- s...@donelan.com wrote:
From: Sean Donelan
https://fcw.com/articles/2016/04/11/lyngaas-halvorsen-update.aspx
-
Wow, this is big news in that article for the companies that
deal with selling network devices and computers to the DoD:
(Defense De
Guess what, an IG decides to count "data centers" using OMB's definition
of a data center. CIO points out those "data centers" won't save money.
https://fcw.com/articles/2016/04/11/lyngaas-halvorsen-update.aspx
The IG report knocked Halvorsen for not adjusting his strategy to account
for a re
Subject: Top-shelf resilience (Re: Why the US Government has so many data
centers) Date: Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 07:59:24PM + Quoting Jay R. Ashworth
(j...@baylink.com):
>
> This seems like a good time to mention my favorite example of such a thing.
>
> In the Navy, originally,
ay, March 22, 2016 3:59 PM
To: North American Network Operators' Group
Subject: Top-shelf resilience (Re: Why the US Government has so many data
centers)
- Original Message -
> From: "George Herbert"
> There are corner cases where distributed resilience is paramo
Circuit utilization, capacity and availability shouldn't be calculated
separately in a data center environment. If you look at each separately you
risk making some expensive mistakes.
*Rafael Possamai*
Founder & CEO at E2W Solutions
*office:* (414) 269-6000
*e-mail:* raf...@e2wsolutions.com
On
The last time I checked, the US CIO office was understaffed and fighting the
bureaucratic hydra and mostly losing, but competent and doing things like
providing IGs with relevant ammo.
If not true in this case then the audit should be redone with relevant criteria.
George William Herbert
Sent
I finally looked at the Data Center Optimization
Initiative (DCOI) at https://datacenters.cio.gov.
If you're planning to provide feedback I would just
about assure you that this will not be looked at by
anyone that will be able to do anything. Likely,
there'll be containers for expected/w
- Original Message -
> From: "George Herbert"
> There are corner cases where distributed resilience is paramount, including a
> lot of field operations (of all sorts) on ships (and aircraft and spacecraft),
> or places where the net really is unstable. Any generalizations that wrap
> tho
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016, George Herbert wrote:
Come on, the audit requirements should have diversity/redundancy concerns in
them.
That's standard in all the audits I have done or participated in.
If these ones don't I have a marketing opportunity to teach a HA seminar and
followon consulting to t
Come on, the audit requirements should have diversity/redundancy concerns in
them.
That's standard in all the audits I have done or participated in.
If these ones don't I have a marketing opportunity to teach a HA seminar and
followon consulting to the IG.
George William Herbert
Sent from my i
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:11:11 -0400, Sean Donelan said:
> Why do you have two circuits with only 40% utilization. The auditor says
> that's waste, and you only need one circuit at 80% utilization for half
> the cost.
And of course, said auditor is probably near impervious to the very real
and valid
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
But when some Armenian script kiddie DDoSing Netflix takes down your TSA
terrorist lookup service, and you come to me asking why the plane blew up,
I'm going to tell you "because you fucking ignored my written advice on
the matter", while I'm packing my
- Original Message -
> From: "Lee"
> On 3/13/16, Sean Donelan wrote:
> I doubt anyone really believes that having a server in the room makes
> it a data center. But if you're the Federal CIO pushing the cloud
> first policy, this seems like a great bureaucratic maneuver to get the
> dec
So...
Before I go on, I have not been in Todd's shoes, either serving nor directly
supporting an org like that.
However, I have indirectly supported orgs like that and consulted at or
supported literally hundreds of commercial and a few educational and nonprofit
orgs over the last 30 years.
I was trying to resist the urge to chime in on this one, but this discussion
has continued for much longer than I had anticipated... So here it goes
I spent 5 years in the Marines (out now) in which one of my MANY duties was to
manage these "data centers" (a part of me just died as I used that w
On 3/11/16 9:03 AM, Sean Donelan wrote:
https://datacenters.cio.gov/optimization/
"For the purposes of this memorandum, rooms with at least one server,
providing services (whether in a production, test, stage, development,
or any other environment), are considered data centers. However, rooms
c
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Why the US Government has so many data centers
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 04:49:38PM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, Scott Weeks wrote:
> > It's all phunny money. Real economics are not even considered.
> > At all.
>
> And
Plus a subsequent GAO report accounting for a miscount due to using paperclips
on the history forms.
On Mar 14, 2016, at 4:06 PM, mikea
mailto:mi...@mikea.ath.cx>> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 04:49:38PM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, Scott Weeks wrote:
It's all phunny money.
--- s...@donelan.com wrote:
From: Sean Donelan
On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, Scott Weeks wrote:
> It's all phunny money. Real economics are not even
> considered. At all.
: And what makes your think the Data Center Optimization
: Initiative is any different, when they are counting
: single servers
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 04:49:38PM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, Scott Weeks wrote:
> > It's all phunny money. Real economics are not even considered.
> > At all.
>
> And what makes your think the Data Center Optimization Initiative is any
> different, when they are counting
* Sean Donelan:
> When you say "data center" to an ordinary, average person or reporter;
> they think of big buildings filled with racks of computers. Not a
> lonely server sitting in a test lab or under someone's desk.
I suspect part of the initiative is to get rid of that mindset, which
leads
On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, Scott Weeks wrote:
It's all phunny money. Real economics are not even considered.
At all.
And what makes your think the Data Center Optimization Initiative is any
different, when they are counting single servers instead of data centers?
If it was a rational, coherent pl
--- s...@donelan.com wrote:
From: Sean Donelan
: But if a majority of the "data centers" are a single server
: in a room, the cost savings of moving it to a different
: room may not save billions of dollars. But no one will
: remember.
Many are not one, rather several. For example, in
> On Mar 14, 2016, at 12:19 PM, George Metz wrote:
>
> Based on the "standard" (per the Windows admins) file storage space of 700
> meg, that sounds like 3TB for user storage. Even if it were 30TB, I still
> can't see a proper setup costing more than the OC-12 after a period of two
> years.
Datacenter isn't actually an issue since there's room in the same racks
(ironically, in the location the previous fileservers were) as the Domain
Controllers and WAN Accelerators. Based on the "standard" (per the Windows
admins) file storage space of 700 meg, that sounds like 3TB for user
storage.
On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, George Metz wrote:
That's an inaccurate cost savings though most likely; it probably doesn't
Politicians and sales people with inaccurate cost savings. Say it isn't
so.
If you think these are $100 million dollar "data centers," maybe a few
billion dollars in cost savin
At enterprise storage costs, that much storage will cost more than the OC-12,
and then add datacenter and backups. Total could be 2-3x OC-12 annual costs.
If your org can afford to buy non-top-line storage then it would probably be
cheaper to go local.
However, you should check how much of th
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Lee wrote:
>
> Yes, *sigh*, another what kind of people _do_ we have running the govt
> story. Altho, looking on the bright side, it could have been much
> worse than a final summing up of "With the current closing having been
> reported to have saved over $2.5
On 3/14/16, Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, Lee wrote:
>> I doubt anyone really believes that having a server in the room makes
>> it a data center. But if you're the Federal CIO pushing the cloud
>> first policy, this seems like a great bureaucratic maneuver to get the
>> decision maki
On Mon, 14 Mar 2016, Lee wrote:
I doubt anyone really believes that having a server in the room makes
it a data center. But if you're the Federal CIO pushing the cloud
first policy, this seems like a great bureaucratic maneuver to get the
decision making away from the techies that like redundant
On 3/13/16, Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2016, Lee wrote:
>> Where does it say test/dev has to be done solely in a cloud data
>> center? This bit
>> For the purposes of this memorandum, rooms with at least one
>> server, providing
>> services (whether in a production, test, stage, deve
On Sun, 13 Mar 2016, Lee wrote:
Where does it say test/dev has to be done solely in a cloud data
center? This bit
For the purposes of this memorandum, rooms with at least one
server, providing
services (whether in a production, test, stage, development, or any other
environment), are consi
On 3/13/16, Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2016, Roland Dobbins wrote:
>> On 13 Mar 2016, at 3:03, George Herbert wrote:
>>
>>> It's a symptom of trying to save a few cents at the risk of dollars.
>>
>> Concur 100%.
>>
>> Not to mention the related security issues.
>
> Just remember, no exce
I really don't care about AWS sales (customer, but not investor or employee).
But...
If it's not highly loaded, cloud is cheaper.
If it's not in a well run datacenter / machine room, cloud is FAR more reliable.
The cost of blowing up hardware in less than well run machine rooms /
datacenters
On Sun, 13 Mar 2016, Roland Dobbins wrote:
On 13 Mar 2016, at 3:03, George Herbert wrote:
It's a symptom of trying to save a few cents at the risk of dollars.
Concur 100%.
Not to mention the related security issues.
Just remember, no exceptions, no waivers.
I understand why cloud vendors
On 13 Mar 2016, at 3:03, George Herbert wrote:
> It's a symptom of trying to save a few cents at the risk of dollars.
Concur 100%.
Not to mention the related security issues.
---
Roland Dobbins
* Mark T. Ganzer:
> Note that I an not answering in any sort of "official" capacitybut
> I will instead ask this for your consideration: Do servers in "test,
> stage, development, or any other environment" really need to have the
> same environmental, power and connectivity requirements that
> On Mar 11, 2016, at 11:57 AM, "Mark T. Ganzer" wrote:
>
> but I will instead ask this for your consideration: Do servers in "test,
> stage, development, or any other environment" really need to have the same
> environmental, power and connectivity requirements that "production" servers
I can confirm this. I was working at NASA when the last "data call" was put
out. We had a room with a flight simulator in it, powered by an SGI
Onyx2. The conversation with the auditor went like this:
Auditor *points at Onyx2* "Is that machine shared?"
Me: "Well yeah, the whole group uses it t
Note that I an not answering in any sort of "official" capacitybut I
will instead ask this for your consideration: Do servers in "test,
stage, development, or any other environment" really need to have the
same environmental, power and connectivity requirements that
"production" servers ha
On 2016-03-11 04:40 PM, Scott Weeks wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Sean Donelan
>
> The U.S. government definition of data center is a bit like defining
> a warehouse as any room containing a single ream of paper. Yes,
> warehouses
On 2016-03-11 04:40 PM, Scott Weeks wrote:
-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Sean Donelan
The U.S. government definition of data center is a bit like defining
a warehouse as any room containing a single ream of paper. Yes,
warehouses are used
-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Sean Donelan
The U.S. government definition of data center is a bit like defining
a warehouse as any room containing a single ream of paper. Yes,
warehouses are used to store reams of paper; but that doesn't m
, but the standards make it significantly uneconomical.
-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Sean Donelan
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 1:55 PM
To: Christopher Morrow
Cc: nanog list
Subject: Re: Why the US Government has so many data centers
On Fri
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016, Christopher Morrow wrote:
o 'a machine under your desk' is not a production operation.
(if you think it is, please stop, think again and move that
service to conditioned power/cooling/ethernet)
Even worse, the new OMB data center definition wants says "(whether in a
p
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016, Roland Dobbins wrote:
The U.S. Government has an odd defintion of what is a data center, which
ends up with a lot of things no rational person would call a data center.
There's also a case to be made that governmental organizations really
oughtn't to have servers just lyin
Christopher Morrow wrote:
> because at least:
> o safe handling of media is important (did the janitor just walk off
> with backup tapes/ disks/etc?)
> o 'a machine under your desk' is not a production operation.
> (if you think it is, please stop, think again and move that
> service
On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 12:21 PM, Roland Dobbins wrote:
> On 12 Mar 2016, at 0:03, Sean Donelan wrote:
>
>> The U.S. Government has an odd defintion of what is a data center, which
>> ends up with a lot of things no rational person would call a data center.
>
>
> There's also a case to be made tha
On 12 Mar 2016, at 0:03, Sean Donelan wrote:
The U.S. Government has an odd defintion of what is a data center,
which ends up with a lot of things no rational person would call a
data center.
There's also a case to be made that governmental organizations really
oughtn't to have servers just
If you've wondered why the U.S. Government has so many data centers, ok I
know no one has ever asked.
The U.S. Government has an odd defintion of what is a data center, which
ends up with a lot of things no rational person would call a data center.
If you call every room with even one server a
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