Re: [Nanog-futures] Admission for Committee Members
Steve, Can you ensure that you have that budget available before the meeting, hopefully at least a week before? Also, can we have the numbers from NANOG 52 ASAP? Thanks! -Dave On 9/15/11 7:28 PM, Steven Feldman wrote: [Apologies for cross-posting; it turns out many members are not on the nanog-futures list.] In our board meeting this week, we decided not to place this on this year's ballot. We feel that as with other decisions regarding conference fees and discounts, this is best left as an operational policy decision rather than a corporate governance issue. The petition process is available as an alternative if a sufficient portion of the membership wishes to put this on the ballot without the board's involvement. The board has taken no position on the underlying question of waiving fees for volunteers. We encourage continued community discussion on this topic, both on these mailing lists and and during the open members meeting at NANOG 53. By that time, we will have a draft budget for 2012 available which will allow us to determine the financial impact of such a policy. Thanks, Steve On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Dave Temkin d...@temk.in mailto:d...@temk.in wrote: I'm perfectly OK with not necessarily codifying this in the bylaws; you're right in that the bylaws doesn't spell out admission specifically today. I guess a meta question is - should it? And if it shouldn't, is this just a topic to bring up at the community meeting and then ask the board to move on there? -Dave On 9/2/11 2:30 PM, Steve Gibbard wrote: Speaking only for myself, and not in any official capacity... I think Dave's idea has merit. There is precedent for it -- we give free conference admission to speakers -- so to me the question here is not whether any contribution should merit free admission, but where the line should be drawn. That said, is there a reason to put this in the bylaws? The bylaws are currently silent on the subject of conference fees, meaning the board can set them however it wants. If the board were to enact something like this, it would have a lot of flexibility to vary the discounts and elligibility, based on what sorts of incentives were needed and how much money was available. If this went in as a bylaw ammendment, changing it later would be cumbersome. -Steve On Aug 31, 2011, at 10:30 AM, David Temkin d...@temk.in mailto:d...@temk.in wrote: All, I would like to propose an amendment to the bylaws for the coming election cycle. The various committees put in many tireless hours of effort to bring a content rich, well attended, well sponsored meeting to our attendees. In return they generally get a free lunch and a brief thank you. I propose that any committee member who attends six or more committee meetings between NANOG meetings is entitled to a free registration for the upcoming meeting. Attendance would be gauged by the chair of the committee and this would only be available as a benefit to sanctioned committees. I'll keep this short and sweet, however I feel that this is the least that we can do for our hard working committee members. I would ask that the Board sponsor this for the upcoming election, however if they choose not to I think we can put this out to petition. Thanks, -Dave ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org mailto:Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org mailto:Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
Someone laying that restful whois to rest or at least maintaining the old whois in parallel would be great. Lots and lots of scripts to go spammer hunting using regexps to find all the netblocks assigned to a spammer had to be rewritten :( On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: i used to dial 411. now i have to build a machine from tinkertoys to open the fridge and get information. i am sure someone thought this was progress. you gotta love it. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.li...@gmail.com)
Re: routing issue for verizon dsl customers in western massachusetts
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 20:52 UTC, Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Steve Bohrer skboh...@simons-rock.edu wrote: Traceroutes from Brian's house show that for our blocked hosts, the users don't get beyond Verizon's NAT. I wasn't aware verizon implemented CGN already... way to be a 'first mover' in this field verizon! I am betting they have not. FAILS: Tracing route to wilbur.simons-rock.edu [208.81.88.15] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.10.1 2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1 3 53 ms 104 ms 116 ms 10.14.1.1 4 * * * Request timed out. 5 * * * Request timed out. 6 * * * Request timed out. 7 * * * Request timed out. Here's a trace to the same destination from a Verizon residential DSL on Maryland's Eastern Shore: Tracing route to wilbur.simons-rock.edu [208.81.88.15] over a maximum of 30 hops: 11 ms1 ms1 ms 192.168.201.1 225 ms25 ms24 ms 10.31.8.1 338 ms99 ms78 ms at-4-3-0-1712.sal-core-rtr1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.136.122] 426 ms26 ms26 ms so-0-0-0-0.sal-core-rtr2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.18.247] 594 ms31 ms31 ms 130.81.20.238 632 ms32 ms32 ms 0.ae2.BR2.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.34.73] 732 ms33 ms31 ms te2-3.ar6.DCA3.gblx.net [64.215.195.113] 833 ms33 ms32 ms xe6-2-0-10G.scr2.WDC2.gblx.net [67.16.136.197] 937 ms38 ms38 ms so2-2-0-10G.scr2.NYC1.gblx.net [67.17.95.102] 1043 ms44 ms44 ms pos9-0-2488M.cr2.BOS1.gblx.net [67.17.94.157] 11 244 ms 200 ms 204 ms pos1-0-0-155M.ar1.BOS1.gblx.net [67.17.70.165] 1250 ms51 ms50 ms 64.213.79.250 1349 ms50 ms48 ms wilbur.simons-rock.edu [208.81.88.15] 192.168.201.1 is the router behind the bridged ADSL CPE which terminates the customer PPPoE. 10.31.8.1 is RFC 1918, but is not a NAT. I know from various test my crappy broadband sites that the only drain bramage on the provider side of the link is routine consumer-class port blocking (SMB networking, SQL, and of course port 80 so the mothe#@#$rs can charge extra for business with static IP and unblocked http). At least https works. Looking at Brian's trace above, I can't help wondering if the client is 444'd, but not due to CGN/LSN. Could both 192.168.10.1 and 192.168.1.1 be on-premises, with 192.168.1.1 terminating PPPoE? The latencies seem to confirm. It is possible it's only a single level of NAT on .1.1, with more-respectable routing by .10.1... Cheers, Dave Hart
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
Someone laying that restful whois to rest or at least maintaining the old whois in parallel would be great. Lots and lots of scripts to go spammer hunting using regexps to find all the netblocks assigned to a spammer had to be rewritten :( when you have a monopoly, you do not have the slightest instinct to think of the effects of your actions on others. randy
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
* Jon Lewis: No he's not. He's complaining that sometime in the past few weeks (or is it months now?) ARIN changed the behavior of their whois server. Ahem, ARIN's WHOIS server has been sending such responses for ages. Maybe the change is that more addresses trigger this behavior, but you could get the handle list before. Even sending the + flag has been requested before: | Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 22:19:09 +0100 | | Package: whois | Version: 4.6.1 | Severity: normal | Tags: patch | | Please include the + flag when querying information for IP addresses | from whois.arin.net. This way, whois(1) will print useful information | and not just the useless overview. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=174497 -- Florian Weimerfwei...@bfk.de BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstraße 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99
6To4 Transition Concideration
Hello, i have a Question about 6To4 in my understand (i hop is true): Iana has set up the prefix 2002::/16 specialy for the 6To4 transition method if i get a /32 from a RIR, Could i use the 6To4 to provide it ? and in my understanding is not pocible cause the client has to calculate the compatible /48 of his /32 IPV4 address and tunnel it to the 6To4 prefix of 192.168.1.1/24 please let me know thank you Meftah Tayeb IT Consulting http://www.tmvoip.com/ phone: +21321656139 Mobile: +213660347746 __ Information provenant d'ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version de la base des signatures de virus 6468 (20110916) __ Le message a été vérifié par ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:21 AM, Randy Bush wrote: when you have a monopoly, you do not have the slightest instinct to think of the effects of your actions on others. Randy - Over the last decade, we've run multiple consultations with the community regarding changing Whois. These have either been the result of internal recommendations or suggestions from the ARIN community, and have covered a wide range of issues including the format of responses, the number of responses returned, the AUP for the Whois data, and more. All of the archives of these are on https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/index.html. If you have a particular suggestion for changing whois, please feel free to submit it. If you'd prefer a different process altogether for discussing changes, please let me know. FYI, /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN
Re: routing issue for verizon dsl customers in western massachusetts
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 20:52 UTC, Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Steve Bohrer skboh...@simons-rock.edu wrote: Traceroutes from Brian's house show that for our blocked hosts, the users don't get beyond Verizon's NAT. I wasn't aware verizon implemented CGN already... way to be a 'first mover' in this field verizon! I am betting they have not. FAILS: Tracing route to wilbur.simons-rock.edu [208.81.88.15] over a maximum of 30 hops:  1   1 ms   1 ms   1 ms  192.168.10.1  2   1 ms   1 ms   1 ms  192.168.1.1  3   53 ms  104 ms  116 ms  10.14.1.1  4   *     *     *   Request timed out.  5   *     *     *   Request timed out.  6   *     *     *   Request timed out.  7   *     *     *   Request timed out. Here's a trace to the same destination from a Verizon residential DSL on Maryland's Eastern Shore: Tracing route to wilbur.simons-rock.edu [208.81.88.15] over a maximum of 30 hops: 11 ms1 ms1 ms 192.168.201.1 225 ms25 ms24 ms 10.31.8.1 338 ms99 ms78 ms at-4-3-0-1712.sal-core-rtr1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.136.122] 426 ms26 ms26 ms so-0-0-0-0.sal-core-rtr2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.18.247] 594 ms31 ms31 ms 130.81.20.238 632 ms32 ms32 ms 0.ae2.BR2.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.34.73] 732 ms33 ms31 ms te2-3.ar6.DCA3.gblx.net [64.215.195.113] 833 ms33 ms32 ms xe6-2-0-10G.scr2.WDC2.gblx.net [67.16.136.197] 937 ms38 ms38 ms so2-2-0-10G.scr2.NYC1.gblx.net [67.17.95.102] 1043 ms44 ms44 ms pos9-0-2488M.cr2.BOS1.gblx.net [67.17.94.157] 11 244 ms 200 ms 204 ms pos1-0-0-155M.ar1.BOS1.gblx.net [67.17.70.165] 1250 ms51 ms50 ms 64.213.79.250 1349 ms50 ms48 ms wilbur.simons-rock.edu [208.81.88.15] 192.168.201.1 is the router behind the bridged ADSL CPE which terminates the customer PPPoE. 10.31.8.1 is RFC 1918, but is not a NAT. I know from various test my crappy broadband sites that the only drain bramage on the provider side of the link is routine consumer-class port blocking (SMB networking, SQL, and of course port 80 so the mothe#@#$rs can charge extra for business with static IP and unblocked http). At least https works. Looking at Brian's trace above, I can't help wondering if the client is 444'd, but not due to CGN/LSN. Could both 192.168.10.1 and 192.168.1.1 be on-premises, with 192.168.1.1 terminating PPPoE? The latencies seem to confirm. It is possible it's only a single level of NAT on .1.1, with more-respectable routing by .10.1... In my setup, 192.168.10.1 is my DD-WRT router and 192.168.1.1 is the DSL modem. When I ran a traceroute directly from the DSL modem's web interface, I got the following results: 157 ms98 ms 129 ms 10.14.1.1 3 *** Request timed out. 5 *** Request timed out. 5 *** Request timed out. 6 *** Request timed out. Cheers, Dave Hart
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
If you have a particular suggestion for changing whois, please feel free to submit it. simple. don't. if you want to do something new, don't call it whois. randy
RE: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
-Original Message- From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] Sent: 16 September 2011 16:05 To: John Curran Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ? If you have a particular suggestion for changing whois, please feel free to submit it. simple. don't. if you want to do something new, don't call it whois. randy Or call it whois and offer the service somewhere else.. Just not in a way that breaks everything. -- Leigh __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
On Sep 16, 2011, at 10:17 AM, Leigh Porter wrote: -Original Message- From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] Sent: 16 September 2011 16:05 To: John Curran Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ? If you have a particular suggestion for changing whois, please feel free to submit it. simple. don't. if you want to do something new, don't call it whois. randy Or call it whois and offer the service somewhere else.. Just not in a way that breaks everything. One approach would be the use of an option flag on the query to obtain the new hierarchical output No flag = no output change. Would that suffice? /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
As the new arin whois is best suited for REST .. offer it only over REST? Queries from shell prompts can go on the same way they've gone on for years. On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 9:05 PM, John Curran jcur...@arin.net wrote: One approach would be the use of an option flag on the query to obtain the new hierarchical output No flag = no output change. Would that suffice? -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.li...@gmail.com)
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
One approach would be the use of an option flag on the query to obtain the new hierarchical output No flag = no output change. Would that suffice? how to do something new is best discussed by folk who want or need something new, the folk with skin in the game. so, though i have an opinion that your suggestion seems reasonable at first blush, it is worth the pixels on which it is printed. what i care about is pola. please do not change what works and which a lot of fingers and scripts rely. randy
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
On Sep 16, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Randy Bush wrote: One approach would be the use of an option flag on the query to obtain the new hierarchical output No flag = no output change. Would that suffice? how to do something new is best discussed by folk who want or need something new, the folk with skin in the game. so, though i have an opinion that your suggestion seems reasonable at first blush, it is worth the pixels on which it is printed. what i care about is pola. please do not change what works and which a lot of fingers and scripts rely. Randy - Can you expand your response some? I'm not certain I understand whether an option would suffice, nor the pola reference. I do get that we shouldn't be changing default output upon which scripts rely. /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
One approach would be the use of an option flag on the query to obtain the new hierarchical output No flag = no output change. Would that suffice? how to do something new is best discussed by folk who want or need something new, the folk with skin in the game. so, though i have an opinion that your suggestion seems reasonable at first blush, it is worth the pixels on which it is printed. Can you expand your response some? yes i can inflate the syntax, but the semantics would be the same. my opinion on how something new should be done is not highly relevant as i am not invested in something new, have not looked deeply into what new thing you want to do, ... but if you insist on my stating an opinion, then adding some optional and non-interfering syntactic sugar to the whois query will likely not break people's fingers or scripts. inflated enough for you? I'm not certain I understand whether an option would suffice what i tried to say was neigher do i. but i suspect it may. nor the pola reference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment i.e. it is what the users will bear :) I do get that we shouldn't be changing default output upon which scripts rely. bingo! randy
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
Saying NANOG = ARIN is like saying Middle East = Terrorist. That kind of generalization is never useful. ARIN is one of many non-Government organizations that make decisions regarding the Internet. As for your reference to Obama-style I'm not sure if you're trying to pay homage to, or insult the POTUS, either way it's not piratically constructive to the conversation; especially on a technical mailing list. Please check politics at the door. As mentioned by several others, if you have a problem with changes made by ARIN, an independent non-profit corporation, then it seems logical to contact them and not a community of network operators who have little or no control over ARIN. On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Always Learning na...@u61.u22.net wrote: On Mon, 2011-09-12 at 20:07 -0700, Michael Sinatra wrote: Unfortunately, the original poster, against advice given to him, posted an insulting, jingoistic, inane, and even more derogatory version of his NANOG post, apparently in an effort to spur discussion. What was once a legitimate issue (and I agree one that needs to be addressed) now looks more like troll-bait. Unsurprisingly, nobody has responded. I was attempting to write in 'Obama-style'. I do make a perfectly valid point, perhaps oblivious to many North Americans who generally are insular, that the world does expect the Americans to do Internet things properly. Many North Americans appear not to understand the general world-wide attitude towards the USA. When something goes wrong at ARIN which affects American IPs, the world seems to blame the Americans. Although there is a clear distinction, certainly in my mind, between one rather small organisation and a state of circa 280 million, never-the-less the world generally blames the Americans. The only noticeable exception when the USA is not blamed for the faults and omissions of an American organisation is Micro$oft. Why does it take the concerns of an European to waken-up the Americans to the outstanding ARIN problem? Perhaps some of you can continue the campaign for the restoration of a basic North American WHOIS ? The rest of the world has a fully functioning WHOIS but not the USA (or Canada). My posting was never meant to be insulting or jingoistic or inane and certainly not derogatory. I was attempting to make those that can influence ARIN have some pride in presenting their country's achievements and services in the best possible way. Like it or not, the Americans run the Internet: Google (the world's biggest spying operation), Micro$oft, Facebook, Yahoo, Twitter, Ebay and their Paypal, Cisco etc. etc. and of course ARIN. What was once a legitimate issue Remains a legitimate issue until ARIN resolves it, if ever. -- With best regards, Paul. England, EU. -- Ray Soucy Epic Communications Specialist Phone: +1 (207) 561-3526 Networkmaine, a Unit of the University of Maine System http://www.networkmaine.net/
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
Saying NANOG = ARIN is like saying Middle East = Terrorist. That kind of generalization is never useful. ARIN is one of many non-Government organizations that make decisions regarding the Internet. As for your reference to Obama-style I'm not sure if you're trying to pay homage to, or insult the POTUS, either way it's not piratically constructive to the conversation; especially on a technical mailing list. Please check politics at the door. qed, eh? yes, the op conflated a bunch of crap with the valid technical problem s/he raised. but can the rest of us please try to stick to technalia? As mentioned by several others, if you have a problem with changes made by ARIN, an independent non-profit corporation, then it seems logical to contact them and not a community of network operators who have little or no control over ARIN. arin says they serve the community. this change affects the community, they broke my fingers and a few scripts. for others, such as suresh, they broke a *lot* of software. and discussing it here seems to be having useful effect, thanks john. randy
RE: How to begin making my own ISP?
I think the question was far too vague. The first thing you need to start an ISP is LOTS OF MONEY. -Original Message- From: hass...@hushmail.com [mailto:hass...@hushmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 2:10 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: How to begin making my own ISP? No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks.
Re: The Cidr Report - 4byte ASN handling
On Friday, September 16, 2011 07:51:04 AM Schiller, Heather A wrote: I thought AS-plain notation was the standard for 4-byte ASN's? as-plain is not the standard per se. Think of it more as the preferred option within the industry. o All major vendors support it, so there's no need to convert to as-dot when you upgrade your router software to support 4-byte ASN's. o as-plain doesn't break your AS_PATH regular expressions, which is very useful. o as-plain is a known representation format among operators, and 4-byte ASN's continuing this tradition keeps the network stable. as-dot notation looks really Cool Sexy (tm), but is cumbersome for your AS_PATH regular expressions. It doesn't make things impossible, just, well, cumbersome :-). Hope this helps. Cheers, Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
RE: How to begin making my own ISP?
The second thing is that you need to have at least a VAGUE idea what you want to actually offer. A DSL ISP is VASTLY different than a Co-Location ISP. I'd say you need to sit down and take a long hard look at exactly you want to do, *then* figure out what you need to do in order to accomplish it. Ken Matlock Network Analyst Exempla Healthcare (303) 467-4671 matlo...@exempla.org -Original Message- From: Eric Wieling [mailto:ewiel...@nyigc.com] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 12:14 PM To: hass...@hushmail.com; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: How to begin making my own ISP? I think the question was far too vague. The first thing you need to start an ISP is LOTS OF MONEY. -Original Message- From: hass...@hushmail.com [mailto:hass...@hushmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 2:10 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: How to begin making my own ISP? No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks. *** Exempla Confidentiality Notice *** The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any other dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. *** Exempla Confidentiality Notice ***
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 02:10:29PM -0400, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks. It's not safe to ass-u-me that absence of a reply is due to a desire to avoid competition. I strongly suspect that the answer to your question is very large, very complex, highly dependent on your location, business plan, connectivity, and the like, and that people simply don't have the free time to devote to tutoring you in how to build and run your startup. I know I don't. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
Based on this email, I would suggest Marketing/PR classes ;) Accounting? On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 2:10 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks.
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, mikea wrote: On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 02:10:29PM -0400, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. It's not safe to ass-u-me that absence of a reply is due to a desire to avoid competition. I strongly suspect that the answer to your question is very large, very complex, highly dependent on your location, business plan, connectivity, and the like, and that people simply don't have the free time to devote to tutoring you in how to build and run your startup. I know I don't. Furthermore, it's a truly poor assumption that the larger portion of starting one's own ISP is a purely technical exercise. I'd say the financial, political, and marketing aspects are far more daunting than the nuts-n-bolts side of things. However, if you really want to get advice about the tech side of it, I'd consider looking for an internship with an ISP. Of course, another possible mistake was to assume that the majority of NANOG members work for ISPs (as such). Other entities operate networks, y'know. Jima
Traceroute losses through NYC1.gblx.net?
My general question is what meaning do I give to lossy traceroutes, even when pings show no problem. Can I expect that backbone routers should never give me timeouts on a traceroute through them, so, lots of asterisks from these systems indicate a packet loss problem that needs to be fixed? Or, are these traceroute asterisks essentially meaningless, and should be expected on any busy link? More specifically, is anyone else getting lots of *s for NYC1.gblx.net for traceroutes through them? If I do three traceroutes through there, at least one will show losses at or beyond the NYC1 hops (and, the *s beyond NYC1 might be getting lost in NYC1, rather than indicating a different error). But, Global Crossing's on-line tools don't show any loss. I am at simons-rock.edu, in Western Mass, and we connect via Boston. A few days ago, our users of a database that's hosted at our parent campus, bard.edu, started complaining of many frequent (but intermittent) delays. Bard is in the Hudson Valley, and connects via Poughkeepsie. Both of our local providers connect to Global Crossing. Once before, we saw similar database symptoms, and that time, Bard had a problem dropping packets at their gateway. So I think these symptoms mean packet loss is happening somewhere. However, this time, pings from Simon's Rock to Bard, and vice-versa, show essentially no errors, typically 1000 pings will get through 100%. Still, despite the good pings, traceroutes from either end show lots of asterisks at or after Global Crossing's NYC1.gblx.net links. I have opened a ticket with our provider, who has opened one with Global Crossing; and Bard has done the same with their end, but no significant response so far. (Bard's Graduate campus, located in New York City, is having similar poor database performance, so I'm pretty sure it is not just my end. Staff at the main Bard campus have no troubles, so it seems a network problem, not a server problem.) As I understand it, an asterisk in traceroute means that the sending machine did not get any reply to a given packet. Since the traceroute packets have small TTL values, it expects to get a reply when the TTL is decremented to zero. But, I don't know if big routers are just lazy about sending such responses, or if these asterisks really indicate packets getting lost. (As far as I remember in the past, when things work well, I never see *s at the central links, but, I have not really done any baseline testing of the link from here to Bard when the database was working.) So, another question is why pings work so well when traceroutes work so poorly. (By experiment, I believe our database application performs more like traceroute than like ping.) Is it packet size? Different handling for different sorts of traffic? Magic? Here are some sample traceroutes each way: Simon's Rock to Bard: 2h189:bin skbohrer$ traceroute -q5 -S bip.bard.edu traceroute to bip.bard.edu (192.246.228.16), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 10.30.2.1 (10.30.2.1) 1.514 ms 1.791 ms 0.684 ms 0.761 ms 0.712 ms (0% loss) 2 michael.simons-rock.edu (208.81.88.1) 2.509 ms 1.882 ms 0.899 ms 1.345 ms 2.057 ms (0% loss) 3 64.213.79.249 (64.213.79.249) 104.294 ms 10.605 ms 17.106 ms 18.987 ms 38.740 ms (0% loss) 4 pos2-0-155M.cr2.BOS1.gblx.net (67.17.70.166) 21.962 ms 20.411 ms 8.394 ms 23.308 ms 10.192 ms (0% loss) 5 so1-2-0-2488M.scr2.NYC1.gblx.net (67.17.94.158) 15.738 ms 14.582 ms 17.306 ms 24.444 ms 15.466 ms (0% loss) 6 ae3-30g.scr3.NYC1.gblx.net (67.17.104.189) 15.586 ms 13.358 ms ae0-30G.scr4.NYC1.gblx.net (67.16.139.2) 13.875 ms 13.495 ms 12.780 ms (0% loss) 7 e5-1-30G.ar9.NYC1.gblx.net (67.16.142.54) 75.184 ms lag1.ar9.NYC1.gblx.net (67.16.142.50) 15.766 ms 11.947 ms * e5-1-30G.ar9.NYC1.gblx.net (67.16.142.54) 25.916 ms (20% loss) 8 * * wbs-connect.gigabitethernet1-0-2.asr1.jfk1.gblx.net (64.211.195.6) 55.909 ms 73.803 ms * (60% loss) 9 * pghknyshj42-xe-0-3-0.lightower.net (72.22.160.150) 16.521 ms 21.817 ms 23.715 ms 17.236 ms (20% loss) 10 pghknyshj91-ae0-66.lightower.net (72.22.160.165) 76.257 ms 27.712 ms 20.372 ms 18.923 ms 55.355 ms (0% loss) 11 kgtnnykgj91-ae3.66.lightower.net (72.22.160.107) 18.088 ms 51.631 ms 19.052 ms 20.876 ms 22.942 ms (0% loss) 12 BardCollege-cust.customer.hvdata.net (64.72.66.234) 51.243 ms 47.800 ms 32.835 ms 19.040 ms 55.661 ms (0% loss) 13 *^C Bard to SR (their version of traceroute doen't have the handy -S option): SRDB/users/usrsr/finrep: traceroute mail.simons-rock.edu trying to get source for mail.simons-rock.edu source should be 10.20.11.23 traceroute to hedwig.simons-rock.edu (208.81.88.14) from 10.20.11.23 (10.20.11.23), 30 hops max outgoing MTU = 1500 1 hcrcgw (10.20.11.1) 1 ms 0 ms 0 ms 2 hyphen (192.246.235.1) 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 3 BardCollege-hvdn.customer.hvdata.net
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 02:10:29PM -0400, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks. ... First, You make a roux! - Julia Childs Clearly its not a easy/simple as it used to be but its not rocket science either. you have to decide where you want to start; eyeballs, content, or get others to defray the cost of yur access. Once you select which target you are after, then you can pick your gear. I am going to presume OSS and fully depricated kit to keep your costs down and to boost your learning skills. On the presumption you want to run BGP I suggest you invest in some colo space at/near a public internet exchange w/ a large number of players.. SIX was good, Telx was good, and the SD pops were as well - at least four/five years ago. slip you old HP laptop into the rack and buy a cross connect to the exchange fabric. replace the OS on the laptop w/ FreeBSD or CentOS, from ports, add SSH and Quagga. Chat up potential peers at the exchange and see whom will peer w/ you using a Private ASN. Contact ARIN or third party broker to lease some IP space and an ASN. If you can't find/justify the resources 'cause your just starting out, there is private space and private ASN. Configure Quagga w/ the obtained ASN and announce the IP prefix(es). TaDa ... You are an ISP! /bill
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 21:55:01PM -0400, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Whatever you do, I think you should avoid sending spam when soliciting your services, like this one: Received: from mail.brighttelecom.net(96.125.175.69), claiming to be voiceanddata.brighttelecom.net via SMTP by NGW.AegisInfoSys.com, id smtpdQ7Nl4c; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:29:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:28:53 GMT From: br...@brighttelecom.net (Bright Telecom) -- Henry Yen Aegis Information Systems, Inc. Senior Systems Programmer Hicksville, New York
Re: Traceroute losses through NYC1.gblx.net?
On Sep 16, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Steve Bohrer wrote: My general question is what meaning do I give to lossy traceroutes, even when pings show no problem. Can I expect that backbone routers should never give me timeouts on a traceroute through them, so, lots of asterisks from these systems indicate a packet loss problem that needs to be fixed? Or, are these traceroute asterisks essentially meaningless, and should be expected on any busy link? Basically, you should expect timeouts in the middle of the path from any large network from time-to-time. It could be for any number of reasons, ddos, control-plane busyness, etc.. There was even a provider that once limited the ability for people to see inside their network. The true tests are always end-to-end tests. I recommend having a host at each end that you can run pings or iperf from. This will aide you greatly in diagnosing the trouble. Traceroute (or, more specifically TTL expiry handling by a multipurpose device) is often lower on the priority list than things to keep the element alive and operational. Your outputs showed good results on each end of the path, meaning that the device was perhaps rate-limiting the TTL expiry traffic or had something else going on. - Jared
Re: Traceroute losses through NYC1.gblx.net?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Steve Bohrer skboh...@simons-rock.edu wrote: Can I expect that backbone routers should never give me timeouts on a traceroute through them, so, lots of asterisks from these systems indicate a packet loss problem that needs to be fixed? something inside the router has to make the icmp-unreachable-ttl-expired, right? perhaps that thing is rate-limited (in hardware/software) so that a line-rate flood of ttl=1 packets won't induce an outbound dos attack effect? perhaps that is a shared resource among all of the ports on the pic/card/chassis? perhaps the function that does this does more than just make ttl-expired? (other error codes or other ancillary functions) Or, are these traceroute asterisks essentially meaningless, and should be expected on any busy link? think router not link, but probably less important that you don't see ttl-expired messages, but that you do see no packet loss/mal-effects with the protocols you care about (ping? http? smtp?) it's also possible that the destination has requested gblx to filter udp toward it (depending on what sort of a day they are having and how much fun gblx wants to incur) -chris
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 02:10:29PM -0400, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks. What they said. However - this is the NANOG list, not the EOF. If you are going to play in the EU space, you should ask there. Also - if you are just playing w/ nuts/bolts - a valuable resource is the NSRC site. They do excellent work in helping the technology challanged understand and deploy communications systems. http://www.nsrc.org/ you might also want to talk to the DENIC folks and likely RIPE NCC. http://www.ripe.net http://ww.denic.de Good Luck, you wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper. /bill
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:42:18 -, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com said: Configure Quagga w/ the obtained ASN and announce the IP prefix(es). TaDa ... You are an ISP! Now all you need is a business plan that pays for the rack space. ;) pgpKBjfFJNMbn.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 02:53:03PM -0400, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:42:18 -, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com said: Configure Quagga w/ the obtained ASN and announce the IP prefix(es). TaDa ... You are an ISP! Now all you need is a business plan that pays for the rack space. ;) and the Internet Numbering resource fees, the cross connects, power, spares, ... and if you tak in money, insurance, taxes, accounting, sys-admin costs (unless this is best-effort service that yu can fire forget or your paying clients don't care when you are down for three weeks - looking for replacement kit and the time to configure it -after- your homework is done...) But this song isnt about Alice... /bill
Re: The Cidr Report - 4byte ASN handling
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 02:11:24AM +0800, Mark Tinka wrote: I thought AS-plain notation was the standard for 4-byte ASN's? as-plain is not the standard per se. RFC5396 on as-plain is on track becoming one. Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: d...@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0
Weekly Routing Table Report
This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, AusNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, LacNOG, CaribNOG and the RIPE Routing Working Group. Daily listings are sent to bgp-st...@lists.apnic.net For historical data, please see http://thyme.rand.apnic.net. If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith pfsi...@gmail.com. Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 17 Sep, 2011 Report Website: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net Detailed Analysis: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/ Analysis Summary BGP routing table entries examined: 371690 Prefixes after maximum aggregation: 167917 Deaggregation factor: 2.21 Unique aggregates announced to Internet: 184823 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 38823 Prefixes per ASN: 9.57 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 32200 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 15478 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:5208 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:134 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 4.3 Max AS path length visible: 36 Max AS path prepend of ASN (22394) 33 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 1319 Unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 742 Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs: 1739 Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:1415 Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table:3247 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table:0 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space:111 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 2477780352 Equivalent to 147 /8s, 175 /16s and 237 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 66.9 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 66.9 Percentage of available address space allocated: 100.0 Percentage of address space in use by end-sites: 91.3 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 154979 APNIC Region Analysis Summary - Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes:93491 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 30741 APNIC Deaggregation factor:3.04 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 90025 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks:38232 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:4567 APNIC Prefixes per ASN: 19.71 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 1258 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:710 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible:4.5 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 21 Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 88 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 627559520 Equivalent to 37 /8s, 103 /16s and 204 /24s Percentage of available APNIC address space announced: 79.6 APNIC AS Blocks4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 (pre-ERX allocations) 23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319, 58368-59391, 131072-132095, 132096-133119 APNIC Address Blocks 1/8, 14/8, 27/8, 36/8, 39/8, 42/8, 43/8, 49/8, 58/8, 59/8, 60/8, 61/8, 101/8, 103/8, 106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8, 116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8, 123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8, 203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8, 222/8, 223/8, ARIN Region Analysis Summary Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes:143323 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation:73655 ARIN Deaggregation factor: 1.95 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks: 115248 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 47939 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:14662 ARIN Prefixes per ASN: 7.86 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix:
wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
Wow this turned into a very long post On 09/16/2011 01:10 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: Mr hass...@husmail.com, the net is big enough for many forms of networks and competition to exist. The fact that you write from a hushmail address is intriguing to me. That may have kept others from answering entirely. Using ones real name/personal e-mail address builds a reputation. It also helps if you've posted other threads in the past. Looking over my post history (both replies and threads i started), one will see a progression of learning and participation. I don't recall seeing any posts from you in the past. As such, it may not have been wise to burst onto the scene and say please to do my homework for me. Contributing to a few threads, starting a couple of your own (on a more specific subject) and saying this is what I'm planning to do, here is what I've researched, please tell me if I'm doing it horribly wrong is a good way to start in any community. I had high hopes for the thread you had started, but am disappointed by the somewhat juvenile response that you sent. I believe you killed off the opportunity for some excellent discussion. So I'm starting another one, in the event people are ignoring the previous thread. Plus my title is cooler! I did learn some things from that thread (such as nsrc.org). Thank you for posting those links and inspiring the title of this thread Bill. In my case, I have knowledge (through consuming way too much *NOG lists and other resources). However all of my experience is in data center/enterprise LAN networking. WAN experience is limited to default BGP route delivery or statically configured links. So I have never built an ISP network before. I want to join the community, and as such am seeking advice before I blindly go off and end up being one of those AS. :) Here is what I am doing and how I plan to go about doing it. Feedback most welcome. Please be critical but polite. :) The previous thread mentioned business plan. That's absolutely critical. Competing on delivering the Internet is foolish at this point in the game. I'm giving net access away for free, and making money off of hyper localized advertising). I'm also using existing co location facilities and networks. Looking over my linked in profile will demonstrate my existing expertise on the business and tech side of both online and hyper local advertising, and large scale, distributed server operations. However I'm currently not experienced on the network build out side. I figured the only way to get the level of experience I want, is to build a service provider network. I'm in the process of building out a backbone network across the United States. Starting off small (3 points of presence: 600 West 7th st Los Angeles, 60 hudson NYC , 324 E 11th KC MO). In two cases I'm leveraging existing relationships with strong WAN engineers who will be receiving some equity in my startup, in one I'm a new customer off the street and doing everything myself other then the basic colo services (net drop, power, cooling, security, smart hands). This backbone network will be used to terminate regional wireless networks. The wireless networks are being funded by the communities that the network serves through direct donations and by hyper localized advertising sales. So here we go with technical nuts/bolts of the plan (as bill so eloquently put it): I am going to presume OSS and fully depricated kit to keep your costs down and to boost your learning skills. Something like that. 1) Obtain ASN from ARIN (using LOA from existing upstream relationships). 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently getting brand new v6 space for a brand new network is fairly difficult. for now may just announce a /48 from he.net. ) Yes I did come up with a sub netting plan for the entire United States out of a single /48. It's quite ingenious really. More details on request if anyone wants them. 3) Announce prefixes from initial point of presence locations for availability / traffic engineering reasons. Using a mix of Quagga on Linux virtual machiens, pfSense on dell servers and Cisco gear. So more or less the steps that Bill mentioned in his response. It was somewhat tongue in cheek, but also quite accurate. I'm bootstrapping with personal funds / gear at the moment. However I believe it can be done right. I also have a fair amount of gear I've been obtaining over the past few years with the specific intent of building an ISP. The business plan has evolved over time. It's now at a rather mature point, and it's time to get my hands dirty. Whew. Sorry for the long post.
RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
-Original Message- From: Charles N Wyble [mailto:char...@knownelement.com] Sent: 16 September 2011 20:47 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network Wow this turned into a very long post On 09/16/2011 01:10 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently getting brand new v6 space for a brand new network is fairly difficult. for now may just announce a /48 from he.net. ) Yes I did come up with a sub netting plan for the entire United States out of a single /48. It's quite ingenious really. More details on request if anyone wants them. I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth of space. Now, in six months, I don't expect there to be any left anyway, so what will likely be all the v4 you ever get. Very soon it'll be nigh on impossible for new entrants to the ISP business to get their own v4 space. -- Leigh __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
On 09/16/2011 02:58 PM, Leigh Porter wrote: -Original Message- From: Charles N Wyble [mailto:char...@knownelement.com] Sent: 16 September 2011 20:47 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network Wow this turned into a very long post On 09/16/2011 01:10 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently getting brand new v6 space for a brand new network is fairly difficult. for now may just announce a /48 from he.net. ) Yes I did come up with a sub netting plan for the entire United States out of a single /48. It's quite ingenious really. More details on request if anyone wants them. I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth of space. Now, in six months, I don't expect there to be any left anyway, so what will likely be all the v4 you ever get. Hah. True. I actually don't want any v4 space at all. I'm fine with using provider space for my minimal v4 needs. However I believe if I had existing v4 space, that v6 space would be easier to obtain. Very soon it'll be nigh on impossible for new entrants to the ISP business to get their own v4 space. Indeed. In my case, I'm perfectly happy with v6 space. Can have very minimal v4 space for the time being. Google/netflix/facebook are reachable on v6. This is the vast majority of the net traffic. I can do large scale nat for v4 only content. One aspect of my network, will be operational transparency. So as much as possible will be viewable in real time. This includes v4/v6 traffic statistics. Also we do plan to expand into Europe and Asia. We are starting in the US first due to the relationships we have already established. If anyone is interested in supporting our activities in Europe, please let me know. By our/we, I mean http://freenetworkfoundation.org/ (that's the non profit piece. the advertising part is separate but will help fund the non profit piece). Lots of dual use work being done.
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 07:58:30PM +, Leigh Porter wrote: I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth of space. Now, in six months, I don't expect there to be any left anyway, so what will likely be all the v4 you ever get. Very soon it'll be nigh on impossible for new entrants to the ISP business to get their own v4 space. -- Leigh a new entrant in the ARIN service region would have to meet the allocation criteria as specified in current policy. Same w/ any RIR. If the RIPE region policy is to hand out a six month supply, thats wonderful! (you mean if I state my six month need is a /28, RIPE will allocate that to me? I thunk there was a floor on min allocation size!) Which was why I mentioned address brokers. It will be possible to get IPv4 space after the RIR pools are exausted by leasing space from someone who has it. That has been the case since -prior- to any RIR coming to existance. Case in point, COMCAST leases IP space to its clients/customers as does ATT, VSN, TW, ad-nausa. Some brokers will not restrict what their clients can do w/ the space - unlike the brokers listed above. /bill
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market entry? arin claims to be a shining example of industry self-governance. to me, this barrier to entry looks far more like industry self-protection from new entrants. and before anyone starts bleeding about the routing table, to me that sounds like you fear new entrants forcing you to make a small upgrade to your protected business as usual. randy
Re: The Cidr Report - 4byte ASN handling
Strangely, both the RFC (5396) and the CIDR report appear to be written by the same guy...Geoff. btw, am i the only one who finds it easier to remember asdot formatted ASNs? - Tassos Nick Hilliard wrote on 16/9/2011 23:06: On 16/09/2011 00:51, Schiller, Heather A wrote: I thought AS-plain notation was the standard for 4-byte ASN's? Wasn't there an RFC written about this by some australian bloke? I'd say that whoever maintains the CIDR report these days should really take a couple of minutes to clue themselves in about asplain syntax. Nick
RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market entry? Yes. If you want PI space, you have to start off with PA space, utilize it, and then apply for PI space and an AS #, with contracts demonstrating your intention to multihome. Then, you have to *migrate* off the PA space and surrender it back to the 'owner'. You cannot get further PI allocations until you've done this.
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 08:50:56PM +, Nathan Eisenberg wrote: As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market entry? Yes. If you want PI space, you have to start off with PA space, utilize it, and then apply for PI space and an AS #, with contracts demonstrating your intention to multihome. Then, you have to *migrate* off the PA space and surrender it back to the 'owner'. You cannot get further PI allocations until you've done this. good thing Mr Hushmail does not have to deal w/ this policy. He can go to Ripe and get space... :) /bill
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:02:39 -0400 Markus unive...@truemetal.org wrote: Wait a sec :) So the info I sent you about RIPE and Germany wasn't useful to you at all? :( I didn't receive any such email, sorry. Try resending it if you still have it ? @ Everyone else: thank you for the useful information. I didn't mean to come off as being bratty with my competition notation, it was meant as a bump to the posting and not an insult at anyone. More info: yes, I was planning on having some co-lo sort of stuff, maybe running a dedicated server provider. However on my own IP space, and a good method of getting bandwidth of cheap. Stuff like paying 5€/GB makes me feel sick.
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On 09/16/2011 04:28 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:02:39 -0400 Markus unive...@truemetal.org wrote: I didn't receive any such email, sorry. Try resending it if you still have it ? Maybe hushmail blocked it? :) @ Everyone else: thank you for the useful information. I didn't mean to come off as being bratty with my competition notation, it was meant as a bump to the posting and not an insult at anyone. Thanks for clarifying. More info: yes, I was planning on having some co-lo sort of stuff, maybe running a dedicated server provider. However on my own IP space, and a good method of getting bandwidth of cheap. Stuff like paying 5€/GB makes me feel sick. H. Me thinks that's a no go. You are entering an incredibly stiff competitive space. If you do have some magic pixie dust, I would sell it to the highest bidder. :) (I do believe people were seeking pixie dust in the 444 thread if I recall correctly). Not to be snide, but what makes you think you have something that will let you break into the colo market against a huge assortment of players? (ref the lots and lots and lots of money response). You'll need some hefty capital to attract customers. Plus if you can only compete on price, the established players will just cut costs to match you. That's all my opinion of course. -- Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com @charlesnw on twitter http://blog.knownelement.com Building alternative,global scale,secure, cost effective bit moving platform for tomorrows alternate default free zone.
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, Randy Carpenter wrote: I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth of space. Now, in six months, I don't expect there to be any left anyway, so what will likely be all the v4 you ever get. As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. I think it is really stupid, and encourages wasting IP space, but that is what the current policy is. If you go to ARIN, day one, and ask for address space, they have no way of determining if your request is justified, beyond whatever pie-in-the-sky guesses and growth projections you give them. You're asking for address space, sight unseen, in this case. That would be like someone going to a bank and asking for a loan, with no documentation, collateral, or anything else to give the bank confidence that they'll pay the loan back. That's why the slow-start model has been used, particularly for v4 space. If you started off by getting PA space from one or more of your upstreams, then there should be additional documentation to back up your request (SWIP entries, RWHOIS data, etc). When I still worked in the ISP world, the startup I worked for started off with PA space, and then grew into PI space, and handed the PA space back to their upstreams as it was vacated. I had no problems getting subsequent PI blocks because our documentation was in order. jms
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
On 09/16/2011 04:34 PM, Justin M. Streiner wrote: On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, Randy Carpenter wrote: If you go to ARIN, day one, and ask for address space, they have no way of determining if your request is justified, beyond whatever pie-in-the-sky guesses and growth projections you give them. You're asking for address space, sight unseen, in this case. That would be like someone going to a bank and asking for a loan, with no documentation, collateral, or anything else to give the bank confidence that they'll pay the loan back. That's why the slow-start model has been used, particularly for v4 space. If you started off by getting PA space from one or more of your upstreams, then there should be additional documentation to back up your request (SWIP entries, RWHOIS data, etc). When I still worked in the ISP world, the startup I worked for started off with PA space, and then grew into PI space, and handed the PA space back to their upstreams as it was vacated. I had no problems getting subsequent PI blocks because our documentation was in order. Alright. This seems fair. Easy enough to get some big chunks of v6 space from up streams and then justify the PI space. I shall have to do that then. -- Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com @charlesnw on twitter http://blog.knownelement.com Building alternative,global scale,secure, cost effective bit moving platform for tomorrows alternate default free zone.
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. I think it is really stupid, and encourages wasting IP space, but that is what the current policy is. If you go to ARIN, day one, and ask for address space, they have no way of determining if your request is justified, beyond whatever pie-in-the-sky guesses and growth projections you give them. why is this not a problem in any other region? randy
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
hass...@hushmail.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:02:39 -0400 Markus unive...@truemetal.org wrote: Wait a sec :) So the info I sent you about RIPE and Germany wasn't useful to you at all? :( I didn't receive any such email, sorry. Try resending it if you still have it ? @ Everyone else: thank you for the useful information. I didn't mean to come off as being bratty with my competition notation, it was meant as a bump to the posting and not an insult at anyone. More info: yes, I was planning on having some co-lo sort of stuff, maybe running a dedicated server provider. However on my own IP space, and a good method of getting bandwidth of cheap. Stuff like paying 5€/GB makes me feel sick. Oldie but goodie: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471314994/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8me=seller=
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. Honestly, I did have an insightful email drafted up for your original post, but the more I thought about it, the more I felt like I was getting troll-baited. I do see posts on this list from time to time, and on other related lists, from people who appear to be pretty new to the game, and that's perfectly OK. I will not bash a newbie for being a newbie, because we were all newbies at one point or another. However, expecting other people to do all the work and give you all of the answers, and then criticizing the group when they didn't do that, based on a very vague definition of a requirement is just bad form. Since you mentioned school years in your original post, I'm going to assume that you're also pretty young. Just remember - mailing list archives are forever ;) jms On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks.
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, Randy Bush wrote: If you go to ARIN, day one, and ask for address space, they have no way of determining if your request is justified, beyond whatever pie-in-the-sky guesses and growth projections you give them. why is this not a problem in any other region? I don't have experience in working with the other RIRs, or their address assignment policies, so I can't speak to that. jms
RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
-Original Message- From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] Sent: 16 September 2011 21:38 To: Randy Carpenter Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market entry? arin claims to be a shining example of industry self-governance. to me, this barrier to entry looks far more like industry self-protection from new entrants. and before anyone starts bleeding about the routing table, to me that sounds like you fear new entrants forcing you to make a small upgrade to your protected business as usual. People have been bleating about routing tables sizes for years and everything has been fine. You could argue that the bleating has helped keep the size down of course, perhaps it has. -- Leigh __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
People have been bleating about routing tables sizes for years and everything has been fine. You could argue that the bleating has helped keep the size down of course, perhaps it has. guy walks into a psychiatrist's office waving a newspaper. shrink asks why are you waving that newspaper? guy responds to keep the elephants away. shrink says heck, there are no elephants for thousands of miles. guy responds pretty effective isn't it!
BGP Update Report
BGP Update Report Interval: 08-Sep-11 -to- 15-Sep-11 (7 days) Observation Point: BGP Peering with AS131072 TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS Rank ASNUpds % Upds/PfxAS-Name 1 - AS8447 100707 3.4%1038.2 -- TELEKOM-AT A1 Telekom Austria AG 2 - AS23966 36362 1.2% 103.9 -- LDN-AS-PK LINKdotNET Telecom Limited 3 - AS982934349 1.2% 37.5 -- BSNL-NIB National Internet Backbone 4 - AS749732748 1.1% 108.4 -- CSTNET-AS-AP Computer Network Information Center 5 - AS16212 31226 1.1%1040.9 -- LORAL-SKYNET-ASN Loral Skynet - Aflenz ES (Telekom Austria) 6 - AS29571 30063 1.0% 151.8 -- CITelecom-AS 7 - AS22566 29051 1.0% 785.2 -- Maxcom Telecomunicaciones, S.A.B. de C.V. 8 - AS12486 26743 0.9% 922.2 -- YEMENNET YT - YEMEN NET Autonomous Number 9 - AS484526731 0.9%1336.5 -- SINGTEL-TW Chung Hsiao East Road 10 - AS845225895 0.9% 27.5 -- TE-AS TE-AS 11 - AS755225185 0.9% 18.9 -- VIETEL-AS-AP Vietel Corporation 12 - AS32528 24881 0.8%3554.4 -- ABBOTT Abbot Labs 13 - AS38040 24861 0.8%2486.1 -- GLOBAL-TRANSIT-TOT-IIG-TH TOT Public Company Limited 14 - AS580024545 0.8% 134.9 -- DNIC-ASBLK-05800-06055 - DoD Network Information Center 15 - AS631623777 0.8%1251.4 -- AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec Communications, Inc. 16 - AS47794 20855 0.7% 281.8 -- ATHEEB-AS Etihad Atheeb Telecom Company 17 - AS16305 19756 0.7%1039.8 -- mobilkom austria AG 18 - AS190119698 0.7%1036.7 -- EUNETAT-AS eTel Austria Gesmbh u. CO KG 19 - AS949819452 0.7% 23.7 -- BBIL-AP BHARTI Airtel Ltd. 20 - AS38543 18078 0.6%3615.6 -- IBM-TH-AS-AP IBM THAILAND NETWORK TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS (Updates per announced prefix) Rank ASNUpds % Upds/PfxAS-Name 1 - AS56375 15079 0.5% 15079.0 -- IKRF Imam Khomeini Relief Foundation IKRF 2 - AS3454 8062 0.3%4031.0 -- Universidad Autonoma de Nuevo Leon 3 - AS38543 18078 0.6%3615.6 -- IBM-TH-AS-AP IBM THAILAND NETWORK 4 - AS32528 24881 0.8%3554.4 -- ABBOTT Abbot Labs 5 - AS3976 3499 0.1%3499.0 -- ERX-NURI-ASN I.Net Technologies Inc. 6 - AS38040 24861 0.8%2486.1 -- GLOBAL-TRANSIT-TOT-IIG-TH TOT Public Company Limited 7 - AS499631831 0.1%1831.0 -- BELRTS-AS Regional TeleSystem Ltd 8 - AS153268641 0.3%1728.2 -- BINARYBROADBAND - BINARY BROADBAND 9 - AS307401649 0.1%1649.0 -- EXA-AS Exa Networks Limited 10 - AS460181576 0.1%1576.0 -- DEPPERIN-AS-ID Departemen Perindustrian Republik Indonesia 11 - AS169101534 0.1%1534.0 -- FARM-CREDIT - Farm Credit Financial Partners, Inc. 12 - AS385103067 0.1%1533.5 -- DEPTAN-AS-ID KEMENTERIAN PERTANIAN REPUBLIK INDONESIA 13 - AS355711526 0.1%1526.0 -- COMSERVICE-AS CJSC MultiLine 14 - AS421022944 0.1%1472.0 -- ASN-LRNC LR Network Consulting 15 - AS143211400 0.1%1400.0 -- SERVICIO-UNITELLER - Servicio Uniteller, Inc. 16 - AS484526731 0.9%1336.5 -- SINGTEL-TW Chung Hsiao East Road 17 - AS174083981 0.1%1327.0 -- ABOVE-AS-AP AboveNet Communications Taiwan 18 - AS4555 5065 0.2%1266.2 -- EP0-BLK-ASNBLOCK-5 - Almond Oil Process, LLC. 19 - AS631623777 0.8%1251.4 -- AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec Communications, Inc. 20 - AS452591206 0.0%1206.0 -- BRUHAAS-BN Suites 11-12, 3rd Floor TOP 20 Unstable Prefixes Rank Prefix Upds % Origin AS -- AS Name 1 - 91.224.110.0/23 15079 0.5% AS56375 -- IKRF Imam Khomeini Relief Foundation IKRF 2 - 130.36.34.0/2412418 0.4% AS32528 -- ABBOTT Abbot Labs 3 - 130.36.35.0/2412418 0.4% AS32528 -- ABBOTT Abbot Labs 4 - 202.92.235.0/24 11874 0.4% AS9498 -- BBIL-AP BHARTI Airtel Ltd. 5 - 66.248.96.0/2110536 0.3% AS6316 -- AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec Communications, Inc. 6 - 66.248.120.0/21 10212 0.3% AS6316 -- AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec Communications, Inc. 7 - 206.80.93.0/24 8108 0.3% AS16916 -- NETLOGIC-WEST - INFINIPLEX LLC DBA NETLOGIC 8 - 200.23.202.0/248060 0.3% AS3454 -- Universidad Autonoma de Nuevo Leon 9 - 61.90.164.0/24 6321 0.2% AS38543 -- IBM-TH-AS-AP IBM THAILAND NETWORK 10 - 58.97.61.0/24 6318 0.2% AS38543 -- IBM-TH-AS-AP IBM THAILAND NETWORK 11 - 213.16.48.0/24 5887 0.2% AS8866 -- BTC-AS Bulgarian Telecommunication Company Plc. 12 - 145.36.122.0/245559 0.2% AS7046 -- RFC2270-UUNET-CUSTOMER - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business 13 - 58.137.200.0/245434 0.2% AS38543 -- IBM-TH-AS-AP IBM THAILAND NETWORK 14 -
The Cidr Report
This report has been generated at Fri Sep 16 21:12:30 2011 AEST.
The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of AS2.0 router
and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table.
Check http://www.cidr-report.org for a current version of this report.
Recent Table History
Date PrefixesCIDR Agg
09-09-11373405 219926
10-09-11374200 219948
11-09-11374395 220145
12-09-11374644 220217
13-09-11374944 220346
14-09-11375016 220084
15-09-11374599 220272
16-09-11374860 220298
AS Summary
38909 Number of ASes in routing system
16445 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix
3563 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS
AS6389 : BELLSOUTH-NET-BLK - BellSouth.net Inc.
108368864 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s)
AS4134 : CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street
Aggregation Summary
The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only
when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as
to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also
proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes').
--- 16Sep11 ---
ASnumNetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
Table 375091 220040 15505141.3% All ASes
AS6389 3563 229 333493.6% BELLSOUTH-NET-BLK -
BellSouth.net Inc.
AS4766 2508 974 153461.2% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom
AS18566 1912 378 153480.2% COVAD - Covad Communications
Co.
AS22773 1455 108 134792.6% ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC -
Cox Communications Inc.
AS4755 1545 227 131885.3% TATACOMM-AS TATA
Communications formerly VSNL
is Leading ISP
AS4323 1626 395 123175.7% TWTC - tw telecom holdings,
inc.
AS1785 1793 775 101856.8% AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec
Communications, Inc.
AS10620 1675 658 101760.7% Telmex Colombia S.A.
AS28573 1351 353 99873.9% NET Servicos de Comunicao S.A.
AS19262 1395 400 99571.3% VZGNI-TRANSIT - Verizon Online
LLC
AS7303 1156 308 84873.4% Telecom Argentina S.A.
AS18101 951 144 80784.9% RELIANCE-COMMUNICATIONS-IN
Reliance Communications
Ltd.DAKC MUMBAI
AS7552 978 178 80081.8% VIETEL-AS-AP Vietel
Corporation
AS24560 1182 396 78666.5% AIRTELBROADBAND-AS-AP Bharti
Airtel Ltd., Telemedia
Services
AS8151 1415 656 75953.6% Uninet S.A. de C.V.
AS4808 1069 333 73668.8% CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP
network China169 Beijing
Province Network
AS30036 1423 693 73051.3% MEDIACOM-ENTERPRISE-BUSINESS -
Mediacom Communications Corp
AS7545 1597 873 72445.3% TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Internet
Pty Ltd
AS3356 1105 450 65559.3% LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications
AS14420 732 97 63586.7% CORPORACION NACIONAL DE
TELECOMUNICACIONES - CNT EP
AS20115 1595 967 62839.4% CHARTER-NET-HKY-NC - Charter
Communications
AS22561 973 361 61262.9% DIGITAL-TELEPORT - Digital
Teleport Inc.
AS3549 1051 446 60557.6% GBLX Global Crossing Ltd.
AS17676 675 70 60589.6% GIGAINFRA Softbank BB Corp.
AS17974 2010 1406 60430.0% TELKOMNET-AS2-AP PT
Telekomunikasi Indonesia
AS4804 660 87 57386.8% MPX-AS Microplex PTY LTD
AS17488 958 387 57159.6% HATHWAY-NET-AP Hathway IP Over
Cable Internet
AS22047 579 29 55095.0% VTR BANDA ANCHA S.A.
AS7011 1183 656 52744.5% FRONTIER-AND-CITIZENS -
Frontier Communications of
RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network
When I still worked in the ISP world, the startup I worked for started off with PA space, and then grew into PI space, and handed the PA space back to their upstreams as it was vacated. I had no problems getting subsequent PI blocks because our documentation was in order. The documentation isn't the pain. The renumbering is, *especially* if you're running a service provider network: 'Dear dedicated server customer, we're taking away your IPs, please don't be angry with us even though it will cost you untold hours of work to hunt down all the tiny implications of renumbering. Never mind the lost business it might cause if you miss something.' 'Dear internet access user who happens to run a bunch of IPSEC tunnels: Have fun fixing all your tunnels! Don't worry, we'll figure out an off-hours time that works for everyone, and that makes all the pain go away, right? You won't harbor any resentment, right?' (Wow, that comes off more bitter than I expected...) Oh well... Since new IPv4 allocations are fast approaching the same scarcity as unobtanium, I guess it's too late to worry about it now. Anyways, apparently IPv6 fixes all of this, or something. Nathan
Re: IPV6 over a PPTP Link
Am 15.09.2011 18:24, schrieb Meftah Tayeb: can i ofer ipv6 addresses through a PPTP connection using cisco ? if yes, how please ? These slides were presented on various conferences showing native v6 via L2TP. While you asked for PPTP, I thought to point to the link anyway, maybe the slides are useful. http://www.blogg.ch/uploads/Native-IPv6-via-xdsl-how-to-tweak-your-LNS_v0.41.pdf Fredy Künzler Init7 / AS13030
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On 9/16/2011 2:43 PM, Michael Painter wrote: hass...@hushmail.com wrote: @ Everyone else: thank you for the useful information. I didn't mean to come off as being bratty with my competition notation, it was meant as a bump to the posting and not an insult at anyone. Oldie but goodie: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471314994/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8me=seller= Whoa. How strange. I actually *own* that book...but then, I'm old, and crotchety, and know what ISIS is (yes, I love saying that). That said, one oh-so-brief word of advice to Mr Hushmail, and it's accurate, from YEARS of experience, and will hopefully be taken seriously. First step, before you follow any of the others, is to make a business model. Second is to find a venture capitalist group, and convince them that you have your ducks in a row, and plan to make them (and yourself) rich. Otherwise, don't give up your day job. Not being remotely cruel, here (and I could be, and I'm good at it). If you aren't spending someone else's money, you need to have plenty of your own, and I'd bet you don't. I suspect you would be shocked at the amount of money a startup similar to what you're proposing would take. Here's a clue; the number will have at least 7 digits (US Dollars). It's always about money. So it goes. -- Democratic nations must try to find ways to starve the terrorist and the hijacker of the oxygen of publicity on which they depend. Margaret Thatcher
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 5:53 AM, John Curran jcur...@arin.net wrote: On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:21 AM, Randy Bush wrote: Randy - Over the last decade, we've run multiple consultations with the While I appreciate that ARIN has had community consultations... It needs to be understood that the WHOIS service is a critical service that many people rely upon, and many people/organizations have developed tools and internal processes that work with the WHOIS service and rely on it continuing to operate in the manner it has operated in the past. There may be no RFC specifying the exact contents of the WHOIS output and the query syntax, but these are de-facto standards and should not be changed without a great deal of care. Many stakeholders are unlikely to be well-represented in the consultation process. ARIN should acknowledge this fact, and therefore ensure that any changes suggested do not break or significantly alter the standard behavior and operation of WHOIS, when a WHOIS user is not issuing a query specifically asking to utilize a new feature or format. When new changes are being proposed they should be operated on a separate WHOIS system in parallel. The community consultation process should not merely be take this list of suggestions, there should be ACCEPTANCE TESTING and approval by the community of the final result. Regards, -- -JH
Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?
Does whois have a bug tracker somewhere? That seems to be the place to file these sort of things.
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
On 17/09/11 7:34 AM, Charles N Wyble wrote: On 09/16/2011 04:28 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:02:39 -0400 Markus unive...@truemetal.org wrote: I didn't receive any such email, sorry. Try resending it if you still have it ? Maybe hushmail blocked it? :) That's not outside the realms of possibility, especially if the sender was using OpenPGP. Hushmail does many odd things with its implementation (e.g. still no support for PGP/MIME or even SHA-2). Regards, Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: How to begin making my own ISP?
When we needed an ISP in Yakima back in '95 we found a rich guy in Seattle, got him to hire an old SunOS geek and an illegal Englishman, and a very small space on the 19th floor of the Westin. Then we talked him into putting his first POP in Yakima where he would have immediate paying customers. He was tired of using broken UUCP email for his trading company. That was our hook. That ISP founded what is now SIX, so not all was lost. j...@wolfe.net -- Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474 On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Ben McGinnes b...@adversary.org wrote: On 17/09/11 7:34 AM, Charles N Wyble wrote: On 09/16/2011 04:28 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:02:39 -0400 Markus unive...@truemetal.org wrote: I didn't receive any such email, sorry. Try resending it if you still have it ? Maybe hushmail blocked it? :) That's not outside the realms of possibility, especially if the sender was using OpenPGP. Hushmail does many odd things with its implementation (e.g. still no support for PGP/MIME or even SHA-2). Regards, Ben
Re: The Cidr Report - 4byte ASN handling
On Saturday, September 17, 2011 03:16:01 AM Daniel Roesen wrote: RFC5396 on as-plain is on track becoming one. Indeed. I suppose it will be interesting to see how the vendors respond to this. Would they retract support for as-dot, as it's been shipping for a while now? Cheers, Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: The Cidr Report - 4byte ASN handling
On Saturday, September 17, 2011 04:49:17 AM Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: btw, am i the only one who finds it easier to remember asdot formatted ASNs? They're easier to remember, but if you operate an ASN for a reasonable period of time, it's okay to assume that you will remember it, whether it's as-plain or otherwise. The same would hold true for your favorite upstreams, peers, customers and role model ISP's :-). Cheers, Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: The Cidr Report - 4byte ASN handling
I say we all start using octal two's complement for extended ASNs. (note to self: don't post to NANOG after a night out with a vendor.) -- Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474 On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Mark Tinka mti...@globaltransit.netwrote: On Saturday, September 17, 2011 04:49:17 AM Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: btw, am i the only one who finds it easier to remember asdot formatted ASNs? They're easier to remember, but if you operate an ASN for a reasonable period of time, it's okay to assume that you will remember it, whether it's as-plain or otherwise. The same would hold true for your favorite upstreams, peers, customers and role model ISP's :-). Cheers, Mark.
