Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jul 24, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Doug Barton wrote: On Sat, 24 Jul 2010, Brandon Butterworth wrote: Eventually ARIN (or someone else will do it for them) may create a site ... Did you mean something like this maybe ?: http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/ Q.E.D. The RFC seeks to avoid

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread David Conrad
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:10 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: The logical candidate to operate option 1 was the IANA, and the RIRs were having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6 space they wanted for

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Jack Bates
Doug Barton wrote: having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6 space they wanted for free.) whois. what did I win? IANA can handle very basic assignments, but hasn't the staff for large support

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Jack Bates
David Conrad wrote: On Jul 24, 2010, at 7:52 PM, Brandon Butterworth wrote: Indeed, best not listen to vendors As it is best not to listen to doctors that tell you if you continue chain smoking or eating 5000 calories a day, you'll likely regret it. Bad analogy. A doctor tells you these

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread David Conrad
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Jack Bates wrote: Doug Barton wrote: having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6 space they wanted for free.) whois. http://whois.iana.org what did I win? IANA

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread David Conrad
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Jack Bates wrote: David Conrad wrote: On Jul 24, 2010, at 7:52 PM, Brandon Butterworth wrote: Indeed, best not listen to vendors As it is best not to listen to doctors that tell you if you continue chain smoking or eating 5000 calories a day, you'll likely regret

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Randy Bush
whois. what did I win? IANA can handle very basic assignments, but hasn't the staff for large support or extra services (whois, POC management/validity, routing registry). routing registry not necessarily needed from address registry. and i am sure even the icann/iana could do the combined

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Doug Barton
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Jack Bates wrote: Doug Barton wrote: having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6 space they wanted for free.) whois. what did I win? IANA can handle very basic

Re: Fwd: Re: North Korea conflict with US and South Korea could spark cyber war

2010-07-25 Thread Randy Bush
From: andrew.wallace andrew.wall...@rocketmail.com Continue to call me a troll in public and I'll be seeking legal advice. andrew wallace, i think you are a troll who needs legal advice. probably could also use some other care. randy

Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread Tarig Yassin
Dear all Greetings I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in business even if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity of memory. What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based routers? thank you all in adavance. --

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Doug Barton
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010, Owen DeLong wrote: On Jul 24, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Doug Barton wrote: On Sat, 24 Jul 2010, Brandon Butterworth wrote: Eventually ARIN (or someone else will do it for them) may create a site ... Did you mean something like this maybe ?:

Re: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread Jack Bates
Tarig Yassin wrote: What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based routers? I believe the main difference is the ability to handle features at line rate speeds. The more interfaces/speed + CoS/ACL, the harder it is for a software based router to keep up. Jack

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Karl Auer
On Sun, 2010-07-25 at 01:42 -0500, Jack Bates wrote: This is my concern. A business would rather be assured uniqueness over gambling, no matter what the odds. Given no additional services are needed, the administration cost is the same as handing out snmp enterprise oids. The fact that the

Re: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread Adrian Chadd
The official answer: commodity hardware doesn't handle all the features needed at line rate. The (more often than not) unofficial answer: using a custom platform raises the entry barrier for cloning/abuse/etc. It's a bit hard to run your appliance MIPS software on an off-the-shelf PC; but it

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Saku Ytti
On (2010-07-25 17:32 +1000), Karl Auer wrote: The risk of a ULA prefix conflict is for *all practical purposes* zero. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+ It wouldn't puke nice graph with 'n', it did try, but never finished. So if there are

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Mark Smith
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:01:33 +0200 David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Jack Bates wrote: Doug Barton wrote: having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Mark Smith
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:40:19 +0300 Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote: On (2010-07-25 17:32 +1000), Karl Auer wrote: The risk of a ULA prefix conflict is for *all practical purposes* zero. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+ It wouldn't

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:35:07 PDT, Doug Barton said: having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to exist if everyone can have all of the guaranteed-globally-unique IPv6 space they wanted for free.) The same way that companies are making money selling people credit

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:40:19 +0300, Saku Ytti said: On (2010-07-25 17:32 +1000), Karl Auer wrote: The risk of a ULA prefix conflict is for *all practical purposes* zero. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+ It wouldn't puke nice

Re: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:20:43 +0300, Tarig Yassin said: I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in business Sorry, but you've gone wrong already. You can't ask why something is true until you first establish that the something is in fact true. There are *plenty* of

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Saku Ytti
On (2010-07-25 10:28 -0400), valdis.kletni...@vt.edu and Mark Smith wrote similarly: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1-((2^40)!)%2F((2^40)^100+((2^40)-100)!)+ So if there are million assigned ULA's there is 36.5% chance of collision, if formula is right. Bzzt! Wrong,

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jul 24, 2010, at 11:40 PM, David Conrad wrote: On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:10 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: The logical candidate to operate option 1 was the IANA, and the RIRs were having none of that. (For bonus points, explain how the RIRs continue to exist if everyone can have all of the

Re: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jul 25, 2010, at 12:31 AM, Jack Bates wrote: Tarig Yassin wrote: What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based routers? I believe the main difference is the ability to handle features at line rate speeds. The more interfaces/speed + CoS/ACL, the harder it is

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Owen DeLong
For bonus points, explain how the numbers side of IANA pays for anything when the RIRs stop funding it? David already answered more eloquently than I could, so I'll simply add that what he said applied when I was there as well. The IANA is, and always has been a cost center. You don't

RE: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread Nathan Eisenberg
I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in business even if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity of memory. It may be helpful before proceeding if you provide some examples of each, so we can understand your definition of a 'appliance' vs 'software

RE: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Nathan Eisenberg
If an expert stood up in court and said the chances that this fingerprint is the defendant's are a million to one, and the prosecutor then said Aha! So you admit it's *possible*! we would rightly scorn the prosecutor for being an innumerate nincompoop. Yet here we are paying serious heed to

Re: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread todd glassey
On 7/25/2010 9:07 AM, Nathan Eisenberg wrote: I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in business even if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity of memory. It may be helpful before proceeding if you provide some examples of each, so we can understand your

RE: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread Nathan Eisenberg
They are all software based routers... It really shouldn't matter whether an Appliance Application (i.e. some routing program is running on a minimal runtime environment ) or a routing program is running as part of an OS or as an Application on an OS. It is all Software until it becomes

Re: Appliance Vs Software based routers

2010-07-25 Thread William Herrin
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com wrote: I'm wondering why the software based router is not preferable in business even if they have high featured Processers, and high capcity of memory. What is the main deferent between Appliance router and Software based

Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Tarig Yassin
Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP

RE: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Tarig Yassin
And why not the ICCAN take this reponsibity as an International organization not USA government? From: tariq198...@hotmail.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Who controlls the Internet? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:24:27 +0300 Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Josh Hoppes
In all honesty control over the Internet doesn't sound like the issue here. The US Government regulates entities functioning with in it's boarders. This would be no different if I being in the US were restricted access to a site in any other country due to their regulations.

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Tarig Yassin wrote: I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web

RE: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Tarig Yassin wrote: And why not the ICCAN take this reponsibity as an International organization not USA government? ICANN has no authority to tell sovereign nations how to run their IP connectivity. jms From: tariq198...@hotmail.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Who

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Stephane Bortzmeyer
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 08:24:27PM +0300, Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com wrote a message of 27 lines which said: For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Patrick W. Gilmore
On Jul 25, 2010, at 13:24, Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com wrote: I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you

RE: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Tarig Yassin
probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge. What if a large orginization which has an infrstructure in many countires, in which regulations the will comply, in terms to ban other countries accessing to thier Internet resources. my regards, -- Tarig Y. Adam

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Jorge Amodio
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet? The global abstract Internet ? nobody. Your government/service provider and/or the government/service provider of the destination you are trying to reach may restrict/block/redirect/tweak/tamper/sniff/shape the free flow of

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread David Conrad
On Jul 25, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: My point was that as a cost center, IANA depends on funding from other sources. The RIRs are a major source of that funding. I guess it depends on your definition of major. From section 5.1 of ICANN's draft FY11 budget

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Seth Mattinen
On 7/25/10 11:05 AM, Tarig Yassin wrote: probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge. Hah, no. ~Seth

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Fred Baker
On Jul 25, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote: Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you are

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread David Conrad
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote: probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge. ALL companies that operate in the US are bound by law to abide by restrictions that are defined at http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/ and elsewhere. Failure

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread andrew.wallace
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com wrote: I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet? The truth to your question is, anybody who wants to. Hackers, activists, governments, terrorists all have the ability to control it. But probably not

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread bmanning
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 08:24:27PM +0300, Tarig Yassin wrote: Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread bmanning
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 01:21:46PM -0500, Jorge Amodio wrote: PS. ICANN has no responsibility or operational role denying access or services. Regards except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role. it has taken on root server operations for some years now

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread techie jovenes
On 25 July 2010 21:05, Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com wrote: probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge. In this case you will most likely discover that these are blocked by the service provider at your end and not by Google et al. What if a large

RE: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Nathan Eisenberg
The local laws/regulations take precedence in each country and they must abide to what's been set. This however isnt a concern to many since not many countries impose such strict restrictions. I thought most countries had trade and export restrictions of one sort or another? Best Regards,

RE: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Karl Auer
On Sun, 2010-07-25 at 16:19 +, Nathan Eisenberg wrote: If an expert stood up in court and said the chances that this fingerprint is the defendant's are a million to one, and the prosecutor then said Aha! So you admit it's *possible*! we would rightly scorn the prosecutor for being an

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Joly MacFie
Hi Tarig This is a bit like asking who controls friendship. Of course nobody does. However if certain friends of yours are going to impose conditions on you, you have to go along with it or find new friends. One way round it is to use other friends as interlocutors, simply by using proxy

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Cian Brennan
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 12:58:01PM -0700, andrew.wallace wrote: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com wrote: I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet? The truth to your question is, anybody who wants to. Hackers, activists,

RE: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Allen Bass
Tarig, Just going out on a limb here, but who says the sites in the US are blocking instead of the country itself? Maybe the Sudan government is blocking access to the sites for whatever reason. Allen -Original Message- From: Joly MacFie [mailto:j...@punkcast.com] Sent: Sunday, July

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Jorge Amodio
PS. ICANN has no responsibility or operational role denying access or services. Regards        except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role.        it has taken on root server operations for some years now        and is trying to take over root zone editorial control. Sure,

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jul 25, 2010, at 11:54 AM, David Conrad wrote: On Jul 25, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: My point was that as a cost center, IANA depends on funding from other sources. The RIRs are a major source of that funding. I guess it depends on your definition of major. From section 5.1

Re: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Robert Bonomi
From: Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com To: nanog nanog@nanog.org Subject: Who controlls the Internet? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:24:27 +0300 Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some

RE: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Robert West
I'm moving all operations to Sealand Bob- -Original Message- From: Robert Bonomi [mailto:bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:16 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Who controlls the Internet? From: Tarig Yassin tariq198...@hotmail.com To: nanog

FW: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Robert West
-Original Message- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:56 PM To: 'Tarig Yassin' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet? Each individual government seems to control the information the enters or leaves their borders.Do a search for

FW: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Robert West
-Original Message- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:02 PM To: 'Tarig Yassin' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet? To add... This is a great reason to provide proxy servers or to use Tor. If enough resources are thrown

FW: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Robert West
-Original Message- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:15 PM To: 'andrew.wallace' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet? I thought it was Kim Jong-il. At least that was what was on the memo. Bob- -Original

ho controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Robert West
I thought it was Kim Jong-il. At least that was what was on the memo. Bob- -Original Message- From: andrew.wallace [mailto:andrew.wall...@rocketmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 3:58 PM To: tariq198...@hotmail.com Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Who controlls the

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Jens Link
Owen DeLong o...@delong.com writes: for NAT. Enterprises of non-trivial size will likely use RFC4193 (and I fear we will notice PRNG returning 0 very often) and then NAT it to provider provided public IP addresses. Why on earth would you do that? Why not just put the provider-assigned

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Jens Link
Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi writes: RFC4193 + NAT quite simply is what they know and are comfortable with. NAT is *not simple*. NAT adds one more layer of complexity. When using multiple NAT things get worse. In most cases people don't want or need NAT they are just used to it and old habits die

Re: FW: Who controlls the Internet?

2010-07-25 Thread Joe Hamelin
I thought that Randy Bush won it from Paul Vixie in a poker game. Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Jens Link
Owen DeLong o...@delong.com writes: You know that, I know that and (hopefully) all people on this list know that. But NAT == security was and still is sold by many people. So is snake oil. Ack, but people are still buying snake oil too. After one of my talks about IPv6 the firewall

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 06:24:04AM +0200, Jens Link wrote: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com writes: The correct answer is No, you don't have to configure rules, you just need one rule supplied by default which denies anything that doesn't have a corresponding outbound entry in the state table

Re: Addressing plan exercise for our IPv6 course

2010-07-25 Thread David Conrad
Owen, Correct, now, what portion of ICANN's budget is related to the NRO sector? Read the ICANN budget. ICANN does not budget things that way. You asked explain how the numbers side of IANA pays for anything when the RIRs stop funding it? Doug and I, who have a bit of knowledge on the