Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:44:57 +0900, Randy Bush said: systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would know better. sigh. It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped the shark when it sprouted an entirely new DHCP and NTP service. And this was

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:44:57 +0900, Randy Bush said: systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would know better. sigh. It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped the shark when it sprouted an entirely new DHCP and

Re: ISP Shaping Hardware

2014-10-21 Thread Josh Luthman
Procera is probably the best product for real DPI. The key is the signatures. It matches everything so granular it's simply fantastic. Right down to what update you're grabbing for your iPhone. As was said, you'll be paying for it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100

[DHCP Relay agent] send packets to different dhcp servers based on client options

2014-10-21 Thread Stephan Alz
Hello Folks, I looking for an opensource project (can be a modification of the original isc-relay agent), which able to send packets to different DHCP servers based on DHCP options such as: The Vendor Class Identifier (Option 60) Vendor Class Identifier (Option 60) can be used by DHCP clients

Re: ISP Shaping Hardware

2014-10-21 Thread Vlade Ristevski
We've used a few over the years. We had Packeteer Packetshapers originally but they became way too expensive once Bluecoat acquired them. $50,000 for an appliance to shape a 1 gig pipe. IIRC,$10,000 per year on maintenance at the time. These prices are after discount.We looked at the

Re: send packets to different dhcp servers based on client options

2014-10-21 Thread Dan White
On 10/21/14 12:52 +0200, Stephan Alz wrote: If my vendor class identifier contains lets say: motorola.fw0512.5112 string, send it to DHCP server 1 on ip 192.168.1.1 cisco.fw06411.111string, send it to DHCP server 2 on ip 172.16.15.44 The existent relay agents (isc-relay, dhcp-helper)

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread David Conrad
On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:18 PM, Barry Shein b...@world.std.com wrote: Not that anyone is looking for a solution but I suppose one possible solution would be to use the two-letter cctld then gov like parliament.uk.gov or parliament.ca.gov etc. No doubt there would be some collisions but

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread Doug Barton
On 10/21/14 8:08 AM, David Conrad wrote: Folks outside of the US have issues with the US government having a role in the administration of the root, even if that role is to ensure ICANN does screw the pooch. Freudian slip, David? :) Doug

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Israel G. Lugo
I was actually not aware of this. I've been told that systemd also includes fsck's functionality (or is planning to?). That just seems absurd to me. I didn't really have a strong opinion on either side of this yet. Seeing the replies from other people here, though, and reading some more about it,

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread Doug Barton
On 10/20/14 10:44 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: I’ve had operational issues introduced by *TLD operators and choices they made. When that happens, report them to ICANN's SSAC. They take the Stability part of their name seriously. That said, new TLDs are not going away, so operations needs to take

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread Doug Barton
The fact that you think I'm commenting about you at all is illuminating :) On 10/20/14 9:52 PM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: i won't comment on your experience, having no direct knowledge. why you comment on mine is uninteresting. -e On 10/20/14 9:03 PM, Doug Barton wrote: On 10/20/14 7:47

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread Sandra Murphy
On Oct 21, 2014, at 11:08 AM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:18 PM, Barry Shein b...@world.std.com wrote: Not that anyone is looking for a solution but I suppose one possible solution would be to use the two-letter cctld then gov like parliament.uk.gov or

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread Peter Kristolaitis
On 10/21/2014 01:33 PM, Sandra Murphy wrote: On Oct 21, 2014, at 11:08 AM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:18 PM, Barry Shein b...@world.std.com wrote: Not that anyone is looking for a solution but I suppose one possible solution would be to use the two-letter

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread David Conrad
On Oct 21, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Sandra Murphy sa...@tislabs.com wrote: Folks outside of the US have issues with the US government having a role in the administration of the root, even if that role is to ensure ICANN does screw the pooch. I'm thinking there's a not missing here. For the

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Rafael Possamai
Perhaps they could make a desktop version with systemd if the devs want it that bad, but it'd be a shame if they ruined it for everyone that uses Debian as a server as well. Haven't installed x on Debian since Etch... o.O On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote:

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Barry Shein
I've done a fair amount of hand-to-hand combat with systemd. When it's good it's good, tho not always apparent why it's good. But for example some of my servers boot in seconds. When it's bad it can be painful and incredibly opaque and a huge time sink. Googling for suggestions I've found

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Ricky Beam
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 01:44:57 -0400, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would know better. sigh. This is exactly the type of shit one gets by letting non-technical people make technical decisions. systemd should never have even

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Eugeniu Patrascu
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:40 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTgwNzQ When your init system is worrying about cursor rendering, you have truly fallen victim to severe feature bloat. I guess Jamie Zawinski was right: Every program attempts

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Eugeniu Patrascu eu...@imacandi.net wrote: I think systemd wants to become the next Emacs ;)) Or the next user activity collection point. Systemd really is a black hole to 99.9% of the people who will use/deploy it... seems perfect for lots of things. -Jim P.

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Owen DeLong
Wait… Let me see if I understand this correctly… 1. Move fsck functionality into systemd 2. Have it generate opaque binary logs 3. If your filesystem is corrupted in a way that systems can’t repair, you can’t even read the logs of what systemd saw or did? Yeah, that sounds like a

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Andrew Sullivan
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 03:11:55PM -0400, Barry Shein wrote: But for example some of my servers boot in seconds. One is reminded of a mail, included in the Preface to _The UNIX-HATERS Handbook_, available at http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/preface.html. Apparently, things really

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Bryan Tong
I have been working with developing systems that boot with Linux for a number of years on a multitude of distributions and I never saw a problem with the tools or the process. Purely the lack of standards. It seems stubborn at the least to propose an opaque software solution when a simple

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread joe mcguckin
Why not write it in Emacs? Joe McGuckin ViaNet Communications j...@via.net 650-207-0372 cell 650-213-1302 office 650-969-2124 fax On Oct 21, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Eugeniu Patrascu eu...@imacandi.net wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:40 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Andrew Sullivan asulli...@dyn.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 03:11:55PM -0400, Barry Shein wrote: But for example some of my servers boot in seconds. One is reminded of a mail, included in the Preface to _The UNIX-HATERS Handbook_, available at it's

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Eric Brunner-Williams
systemd is insanity. see also smit.

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Nate Itkin
Often presented with an alternate spelling from those of us who had to live with it. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 01:44:17PM -0700, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: systemd is insanity. see also smit.

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
Christopher Morrow wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Andrew Sullivan asulli...@dyn.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 03:11:55PM -0400, Barry Shein wrote: But for example some of my servers boot in seconds. One is reminded of a mail, included in the Preface to _The UNIX-HATERS

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Philip Dorr
Could someone comment on why they chose systemd over upstart (other than the Canonical CLA)? Or point to an article on it?

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
Philip Dorr wrote: Could someone comment on why they chose systemd over upstart (other than the Canonical CLA)? Or point to an article on it? If you want to wade into the mess, the archives of the Debian Tech. Committee (https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/), for Dec 2013-March 2014, make

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Jay Ashworth
The thing that I don't understand about systemd is how it managed to get *EVERY SINGLE DISTRIBUTION'S RELEASE MANAGER* on board in less than a year, given how thoroughly it violates the Unix philosophy, and how poorly documented it is -- to the point where you can't even run sysvinit anymore

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - From: Capi c...@lugosys.com On 10/21/2014 11:29 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: The thing that I don't understand about systemd is how it managed to get *EVERY SINGLE DISTRIBUTION'S RELEASE MANAGER* on board in less than a year, given how thoroughly it violates

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Tom Hill
On 21/10/14 23:55, Jay Ashworth wrote: Ok, but how does it handle providing initscripts? I gather any upstreams which used to provide them aren't anymore... It's Gentoo: You should write your own is the most likely answer. -- Tom

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
Probably a lot of it has to do with: - we're merging udev and a bunch of other things into systemd - you want GNOME to work, you'd better use systemd - Canonical (Ubuntu) DIDN'T commit to udev until Debian made the decision - they would have kept going with upstart, but when Debian committed,

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Israel G. Lugo
On 10/21/2014 11:55 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: - Original Message - From: Capi c...@lugosys.com Whoops, used the wrong alias to reply. Not *every single* distribution... I had meant to put an asterisk on that. My remark was meant to be tongue-in-cheek :) Ok, but how does it handle

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Ricky Beam
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:29:44 -0400, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote: The thing that I don't understand about systemd is how it managed to get *EVERY SINGLE DISTRIBUTION'S RELEASE MANAGER* on board... It's spelled Red Hat. Add in GNOME and debian (et. al.) is backed into a corner. Red

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Israel G. Lugo
On 10/21/2014 11:59 PM, Tom Hill wrote: On 21/10/14 23:55, Jay Ashworth wrote: Ok, but how does it handle providing initscripts? I gather any upstreams which used to provide them aren't anymore... It's Gentoo: You should write your own is the most likely answer. Actually, not at all;

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
Israel G. Lugo wrote: On 10/21/2014 11:59 PM, Tom Hill wrote: On 21/10/14 23:55, Jay Ashworth wrote: Ok, but how does it handle providing initscripts? I gather any upstreams which used to provide them aren't anymore... It's Gentoo: You should write your own is the most likely answer.

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Jimmy Hess
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 8:40 AM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: [snip] It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped the shark when it sprouted an entirely new DHCP and NTP service. And this Yikes. What's next? Built-in DNS server + LDAP/Hesiod + Kerberos +

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Tom Hill
On 22/10/14 00:57, Israel G. Lugo wrote: Gentoo is about flexibility and choice. It's got a steepish learning curve, yes, but the documentation is very good; sadly, much of it was lost a few years ago, due to a bad mishap on the community Gentoo Wiki server, apparently without any backups.

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]

2014-10-21 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - From: Ricky Beam jfb...@gmail.com On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:29:44 -0400, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote: The thing that I don't understand about systemd is how it managed to get *EVERY SINGLE DISTRIBUTION'S RELEASE MANAGER* on board... It's spelled Red

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Matt Palmer
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 09:40:30AM -0400, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:44:57 +0900, Randy Bush said: systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would know better. sigh. It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped the

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Matt Palmer
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 07:20:12PM -0500, Jimmy Hess wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 8:40 AM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: [snip] It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped the shark when it sprouted an entirely new DHCP and NTP service. And this Yikes.

Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch

2014-10-21 Thread Miles Fidelman
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 09:40:30AM -0400, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:44:57 +0900, Randy Bush said: systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would know better. sigh. It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped the shark

Jared Mauch

2014-10-21 Thread Larry Sheldon
I don't remember seeing mention of this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69-qhoS9sSw h/t Suresh Ramasubramian on Facebook. (I didn't copy and paste any names--hope I got them right.) -- The unique Characteristics of System Administrators: The fact that they are infallible; and, The fact

Re: ISP Shaping Hardware

2014-10-21 Thread Nathanael C. Cariaga
I haven't heard of a Virtual Appliance for Allot. We have used the appliance for quite some time already but I am looking forward in replacing it (as soon as possible) due to the poor support in our region. -nathan On 10/21/2014 5:34 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote: What I'd really love is a

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread ITechGeek
Instead of multiple govs trying to use .gov or .mil, the best idea would be to collapse .gov under .gov.us and .mil under .mil.us (Much like how other countries already work). I don't see that happening as long as the US gov has a say in the matter. I think .su will be decommissioned long before

Re: Jared Mauch (Good News!)

2014-10-21 Thread Larry Sheldon
It has been brought to my attention that once again I have done a poor job of developing a good Subject: line*. The clip contains good news and I thought a possibly welcome review of the work involved. The subject and content made me think this was a video on the horrible way he had died or

Re: Why is .gov only for US government agencies?

2014-10-21 Thread Eric Brunner-Williams
it was at ietf-9, while jon and i were discussing the {features|flaws} of iso3166-1, that another contributor approached us and ... spoke to the unfairness, as argued by that contributor, of the armed forces of the united kingdom being excluded from the use (as registrants) of the .mil