Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Hank Nussbacher]

On 02/11/2017 20:01, LF OD wrote:

Try: https://www.packetlight.com/

-Hank

> We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city 
> and interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no 
> real ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.
>
>
> Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each 
> building sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may 
> wind through a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is 
> short enough to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the 
> distances are just long enough to warrant transponder cards.
>
>
> All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
> some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with 
> Cisco ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We 
> really don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've 
> saved some money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging 
> Arista and even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the 
> optical arena that have a good quality/price value?
>
>
> Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb 
> and 10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and 
> extend it to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, 
> each on a different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the 
> data centers.
>
>
> If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
> less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
>
>
> LFOD
>

Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Christopher Morrow]

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Christopher Morrow  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Brent Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I've set a few people up with FS.com, and my $employer uses then for a lot
>> of DWDM without issue.
>>
>>
> as another fs.com user of cwdm muxes... yes, in the limited sample I have
> they work for me...
> you ought to be able to pair the CWDM muxes like:
>   http://www.fs.com/products/42972.html
>
> with their 80km optics and get pretty far along... a 'city' solution
> shouldn't really need more than 80k, right? :)
>
>

the example 80k cwdm sfp+:
http://www.fs.com/products/19371.html



> Quality bites everyone, cleaning terminations is one of the neglected steps
>> :p
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 2:36 PM, Micah Croff  wrote:
>>
>> > I've used Adva passive DWDM MUX's and colored FlexOptix DWDM 10G
>> optics. It
>> > worked very well with zero issues.  I haven't personally used MUX's from
>> > fs.com but I've had colleagues use them and caution against them due to
>> > the
>> > quality.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> >
>> > > fs.com DWDM with a 1310 pass through port. That way you can still run
>> > 40G
>> > > or 100G over the 1310.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > > Mike Hammett
>> > > Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> > > http://www.ics-il.com
>> > >
>> > > Midwest-IX
>> > > http://www.midwest-ix.com
>> > >
>> > > - Original Message -
>> > >
>> > > From: "LF OD" 
>> > > To: nanog@nanog.org
>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:01:10 PM
>> > > Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?
>> > >
>> > > We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the
>> > city
>> > > and interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no
>> ROADM,
>> > no
>> > > real ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each
>> > > building sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span
>> > may
>> > > wind through a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the
>> > distance
>> > > is short enough to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly
>> the
>> > > distances are just long enough to warrant transponder cards.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life
>> > (support
>> > > in some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way
>> through
>> > > with Cisco ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar
>> > > products. We really don't have budget for a large optical refresh
>> effort.
>> > > However, we've saved some money here and there in the
>> routing/switching
>> > > arena by leveraging Arista and even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there
>> are
>> > > smaller players in the optical arena that have a good quality/price
>> > value?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have
>> 2-to-4
>> > > 1Gb and 10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a
>> wavelength
>> > > and extend it to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the
>> same
>> > > way, each on a different wavelength so the don't even see each
>> other...
>> > > only the data centers.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which
>> > > costs less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > LFOD
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brent Jones
>> br...@brentrjones.com
>>
>
>

Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Christopher Morrow]

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Brent Jones  wrote:

> I've set a few people up with FS.com, and my $employer uses then for a lot
> of DWDM without issue.
>
>
as another fs.com user of cwdm muxes... yes, in the limited sample I have
they work for me...
you ought to be able to pair the CWDM muxes like:
  http://www.fs.com/products/42972.html

with their 80km optics and get pretty far along... a 'city' solution
shouldn't really need more than 80k, right? :)


> Quality bites everyone, cleaning terminations is one of the neglected steps
> :p
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 2:36 PM, Micah Croff  wrote:
>
> > I've used Adva passive DWDM MUX's and colored FlexOptix DWDM 10G optics.
> It
> > worked very well with zero issues.  I haven't personally used MUX's from
> > fs.com but I've had colleagues use them and caution against them due to
> > the
> > quality.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> >
> > > fs.com DWDM with a 1310 pass through port. That way you can still run
> > 40G
> > > or 100G over the 1310.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > Mike Hammett
> > > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > > http://www.ics-il.com
> > >
> > > Midwest-IX
> > > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > >
> > > From: "LF OD" 
> > > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:01:10 PM
> > > Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?
> > >
> > > We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the
> > city
> > > and interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM,
> > no
> > > real ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.
> > >
> > >
> > > Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each
> > > building sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span
> > may
> > > wind through a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the
> > distance
> > > is short enough to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly
> the
> > > distances are just long enough to warrant transponder cards.
> > >
> > >
> > > All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life
> > (support
> > > in some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through
> > > with Cisco ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar
> > > products. We really don't have budget for a large optical refresh
> effort.
> > > However, we've saved some money here and there in the routing/switching
> > > arena by leveraging Arista and even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are
> > > smaller players in the optical arena that have a good quality/price
> > value?
> > >
> > >
> > > Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4
> > > 1Gb and 10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a
> wavelength
> > > and extend it to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the
> same
> > > way, each on a different wavelength so the don't even see each other...
> > > only the data centers.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which
> > > costs less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > LFOD
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Brent Jones
> br...@brentrjones.com
>

Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Brent Jones]

I've set a few people up with FS.com, and my $employer uses then for a lot
of DWDM without issue.

Quality bites everyone, cleaning terminations is one of the neglected steps
:p

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 2:36 PM, Micah Croff  wrote:

> I've used Adva passive DWDM MUX's and colored FlexOptix DWDM 10G optics. It
> worked very well with zero issues.  I haven't personally used MUX's from
> fs.com but I've had colleagues use them and caution against them due to
> the
> quality.
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> > fs.com DWDM with a 1310 pass through port. That way you can still run
> 40G
> > or 100G over the 1310.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > Midwest-IX
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> >
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > From: "LF OD" 
> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:01:10 PM
> > Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?
> >
> > We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the
> city
> > and interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM,
> no
> > real ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.
> >
> >
> > Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each
> > building sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span
> may
> > wind through a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the
> distance
> > is short enough to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the
> > distances are just long enough to warrant transponder cards.
> >
> >
> > All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life
> (support
> > in some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through
> > with Cisco ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar
> > products. We really don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort.
> > However, we've saved some money here and there in the routing/switching
> > arena by leveraging Arista and even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are
> > smaller players in the optical arena that have a good quality/price
> value?
> >
> >
> > Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4
> > 1Gb and 10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength
> > and extend it to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same
> > way, each on a different wavelength so the don't even see each other...
> > only the data centers.
> >
> >
> > If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which
> > costs less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
> >
> >
> > LFOD
> >
> >
>



-- 
Brent Jones
br...@brentrjones.com

Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Mike Hammett]

fs.com DWDM with a 1310 pass through port. That way you can still run 40G or 
100G over the 1310. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "LF OD"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:01:10 PM 
Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products? 

We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city and 
interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no real 
ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear. 


Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each building 
sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may wind through 
a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is short enough 
to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the distances are just 
long enough to warrant transponder cards. 


All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with Cisco 
ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We really 
don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've saved some 
money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging Arista and 
even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the optical arena 
that have a good quality/price value? 


Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb and 
10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and extend it 
to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, each on a 
different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the data centers. 


If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks 


LFOD 

Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[LF OD]

Wow... a lot of suggestions and very quickly too. CWDM may not be an option 
because some of the spans are just out of range, but I'm going to look at it 
for the short spans.


Thanks for all the feedback, folks. (I'll contact some of you off-board)


LFOD



From: NANOG  on behalf of LF OD 

Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 11:01 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city and 
interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no real 
ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.


Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each building 
sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may wind through 
a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is short enough 
to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the distances are just 
long enough to warrant transponder cards.


All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with Cisco 
ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We really 
don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've saved some 
money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging Arista and 
even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the optical arena 
that have a good quality/price value?


Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb and 
10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and extend it 
to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, each on a 
different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the data centers.


If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


LFOD

Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Micah Croff]

I've used Adva passive DWDM MUX's and colored FlexOptix DWDM 10G optics. It
worked very well with zero issues.  I haven't personally used MUX's from
fs.com but I've had colleagues use them and caution against them due to the
quality.

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> fs.com DWDM with a 1310 pass through port. That way you can still run 40G
> or 100G over the 1310.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "LF OD" 
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:01:10 PM
> Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?
>
> We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city
> and interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no
> real ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.
>
>
> Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each
> building sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may
> wind through a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance
> is short enough to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the
> distances are just long enough to warrant transponder cards.
>
>
> All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support
> in some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through
> with Cisco ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar
> products. We really don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort.
> However, we've saved some money here and there in the routing/switching
> arena by leveraging Arista and even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are
> smaller players in the optical arena that have a good quality/price value?
>
>
> Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4
> 1Gb and 10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength
> and extend it to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same
> way, each on a different wavelength so the don't even see each other...
> only the data centers.
>
>
> If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which
> costs less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
>
>
> LFOD
>
>

Re: Calgary <-> Toronto 100% Canadian Fibre Resiliency on failover

[Mike Hammett]

I believe when I've looked into it before, UP required your utility to be at 
the far outside edge of their ROW, so not really close to the track. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Joe Abley"  
To: "Steve Naslund"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:40:59 PM 
Subject: Re: Calgary <-> Toronto 100% Canadian Fibre Resiliency on failover 

On 2 Nov 2017, at 09:25, Naslund, Steve  wrote: 

> There are four facts to be aware of here. 
> 
> 1. Locators are not 100% especially when it comes to fiber. 

I remember years ago in New Zealand there was buried fibre along the railway 
running north-south in the North Island that was not generally anybody's first 
choice of glass when trying to connect sites in Auckland and Wellington. The 
problem I heard described (from memory, long time ago, I am old) was that the 
natural vibration of the ground due to trains on rails had the effect over time 
of pushing conduit down the embankment away from the track, leading to fibre 
breaks with no corresponding obvious cause (no digging). 

You could bounce signals down the copper in the conduit from either side to try 
and figure out where the break was, but once on site you still had to find the 
fibre which was usually not anywhere close to where the map said it was buried. 


Joe 

RE: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Robert Jacobs]

We use and love Infinera XTG Muxes for our P2P extensions off the main optical 
core.  They have a line of manageable 8 channel DWDM passive mux that you can 
get basic up down traps and optical information about each channel.  You can 
use grey market or OAM tuned ten gig transponders in your switches or routers 
and patch into the mux.  There is an option to add an amp if distances are too 
great.  About 6K for a pair of the muxes and tuned optics are grey market so 
your price will vary based on the vender you purchase from.  We use Precision 
for the grey market optics and have been very pleased with the price vs's value 
and support. 

Robert Jacobs | Network Architect & Director





-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Romeo Czumbil
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:48 PM
To: LF OD ; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

CWDM option might be your best bet here.
If you need more channels and you want to go to DWDM then check out Ekinops 
Great product and they don't charge as much as the other guys



-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of LF OD
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:01 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city and 
interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no real 
ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.


Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each building 
sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may wind through 
a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is short enough 
to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the distances are just 
long enough to warrant transponder cards.


All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with Cisco 
ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We really 
don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've saved some 
money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging Arista and 
even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the optical arena 
that have a good quality/price value?


Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb and 
10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and extend it 
to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, each on a 
different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the data centers.


If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


LFOD

RE: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Romeo Czumbil]

CWDM option might be your best bet here.
If you need more channels and you want to go to DWDM then check out Ekinops
Great product and they don't charge as much as the other guys



-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of LF OD
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:01 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city and 
interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no real 
ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.


Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each building 
sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may wind through 
a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is short enough 
to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the distances are just 
long enough to warrant transponder cards.


All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with Cisco 
ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We really 
don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've saved some 
money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging Arista and 
even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the optical arena 
that have a good quality/price value?


Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb and 
10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and extend it 
to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, each on a 
different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the data centers.


If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


LFOD

Re: Calgary <-> Toronto 100% Canadian Fibre Resiliency on failover

[Joe Abley]

On 2 Nov 2017, at 09:25, Naslund, Steve  wrote:

> There are four facts to be aware of here.
> 
> 1.  Locators are not 100% especially when it comes to fiber.

I remember years ago in New Zealand there was buried fibre along the railway 
running north-south in the North Island that was not generally anybody's first 
choice of glass when trying to connect sites in Auckland and Wellington. The 
problem I heard described (from memory, long time ago, I am old) was that the 
natural vibration of the ground due to trains on rails had the effect over time 
of pushing conduit down the embankment away from the track, leading to fibre 
breaks with no corresponding obvious cause (no digging).

You could bounce signals down the copper in the conduit from either side to try 
and figure out where the break was, but once on site you still had to find the 
fibre which was usually not anywhere close to where the map said it was buried.


Joe

RE: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Luke Guillory]

These guys seem to be a white box solution for Optical. https://www.lumentum.com

I see that Juniper and Infinera have both worked on solutions to work on their 
hardware.







Luke Guillory
Vice President – Technology and Innovation

Tel:985.536.1212
Fax:985.536.0300
Email:  lguill...@reservetele.com

Reserve Telecommunications
100 RTC Dr
Reserve, LA 70084

_

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-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of LF OD
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2017 1:01 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city and 
interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no real 
ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.


Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each building 
sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may wind through 
a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is short enough 
to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the distances are just 
long enough to warrant transponder cards.


All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with Cisco 
ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We really 
don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've saved some 
money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging Arista and 
even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the optical arena 
that have a good quality/price value?


Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb and 
10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and extend it 
to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, each on a 
different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the data centers.


If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


LFOD

Re: Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[Chuck Anderson]

CWDM is cheaper and will probably work fine within a city.  Check fs.com.

On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 06:01:10PM +, LF OD wrote:
> We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city 
> and interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no 
> real ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.
> 
> 
> Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each 
> building sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may 
> wind through a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is 
> short enough to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the 
> distances are just long enough to warrant transponder cards.
> 
> 
> All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
> some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with 
> Cisco ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We 
> really don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've 
> saved some money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging 
> Arista and even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the 
> optical arena that have a good quality/price value?
> 
> 
> Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb 
> and 10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and 
> extend it to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, 
> each on a different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the 
> data centers.
> 
> 
> If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
> less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
> 
> 
> LFOD

Are there inexpensive DWDM products?

[LF OD]

We have several buildings and a couple data centers spread around the city and 
interconnected via dark fiber. It's a very simple setup - no ROADM, no real 
ring, no extended layer-2 or layer-3 via the optical gear.


Pretty much we just mux/demux a channel for each building so that each building 
sees the two data centers directly even though the fiber span may wind through 
a couple buildings along the way. In some cases, the distance is short enough 
to use colored optics in the network gear, but mostly the distances are just 
long enough to warrant transponder cards.


All that being said, a lot of the gear is approaching end of life (support in 
some cases). I'm not an optical guru but I can muddle my way through with Cisco 
ONS and I'm aware that Ciena and Fujitsu also have similar products. We really 
don't have budget for a large optical refresh effort. However, we've saved some 
money here and there in the routing/switching arena by leveraging Arista and 
even Cumulus. I'm wondering if there are smaller players in the optical arena 
that have a good quality/price value?


Again, we don't need sophisticated features... we primarily have 2-to-4 1Gb and 
10Gb ports required per site, then we mux those onto a wavelength and extend it 
to the two data centers. Most buildings are set up the same way, each on a 
different wavelength so the don't even see each other... only the data centers.


If you guys know of any optical gear that you can vouch for (and which costs 
less than a small house), we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


LFOD

New Cable Systems - Asia

[Rod Beck]

Good article providing an overview of recent cable builds.


http://www.zdnet.com/article/facebook-amazon-softbank-ntt-sign-on-for-60tbps-jupiter-subsea-cable/

[https://zdnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/10/31/32fcd53c-09cb-4f94-9675-531750e769e2/thumbnail/770x578/abba6bef8b8f8691030aa28ae67fbec0/jupiter-subsea-cable.jpg]

Facebook, Amazon, SoftBank, NTT sign on for 60Tbps Jupiter subsea cable | 
ZDNet
www.zdnet.com
A consortium of tech companies will be building out yet another Asia-Pacific 
subsea cable, with the 60Tbps Jupiter cable system to connect the US with Japan 
and the Philippines.




Roderick Beck

Director of Global Sales

United Cable Company

www.unitedcablecompany.com

85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest

rod.b...@unitedcablecompany.com

36-30-859-5144


[1467221477350_image005.png]

RE: Calgary <-> Toronto 100% Canadian Fibre Resiliency on failover

[Naslund, Steve]

There are four facts to be aware of here.

1.  Locators are not 100% especially when it comes to fiber.  Databases do not 
always get updated and maps can have errors.  They can be difficult to locate 
if they are not mapped because there is very little detectable metal in them.  
I have personally been on projects where we hit live power line stubs, gas 
lines, and comm cables even after reviewing the maps and have locators out.  
Records sometimes suck.  The problem has gotten worse with the explosion in the 
number of carriers,  you only used to have to worry about Bell, power, and gas. 
 Now you have tons of fiber carriers, telecoms, and cable TV all updating (or 
failing to update) records.

2.  Not everything is in public RoW, many fiber carriers have cut their own 
deals with landowners, railroads, etc.

3. Installers take short cuts.  For example, your map and locator might show a 
very nice 90 degree corner but often if directionally drilled it is going to be 
a large sweeping turn that may very well leave the RoW.  One side effect of 
directional boring is that no one really notices if they cut out of the RoW 
since there is no above ground evidence to cause a complaint.  Installations 
going to a house or business outside the RoW may show a nice straight line on 
the map but if that boring rig hits a rock you better believe they will steer 
around it.

4. Stuff gets moved without proper coordination.  Guys that put in hard lines 
(pipelines, sewer, water, gas mains) will often move a cable that gets in their 
way as long as it has enough slack to do so.  They know that the coordination 
takes time that delays their jobs so the reality is if they have to move a 
cable over four or five feet, they are going to just do it.

 
Steven Naslund
Chicago IL




>From: "Clayton Zekelman" 
>To: "Jean-Francois Mezei" , "Jacques Latour" 
>, nanog@nanog.org
>Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 4:51:02 PM
>Subject: Re: Calgary <-> Toronto 100% Canadian Fibre Resiliency on failover 
>
>
>
>The fibre optic cables are buried within the RoW, not on private property. 
>
>It is against the law to dig without having utilities located first. 


>At 05:23 PM 01/11/2017, Jean-Francois Mezei wrote: 

>>But along rural roads like the 17, municipalities often are in charge 
>>of a strech of highway, and individual homeowners or businesses have 
>>their driveway to the road and may not call to locate cables before 
>>having fun with their backhoe.

-- 

Clayton Zekelman
Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi)
3363 Tecumseh Rd. E
Windsor, Ontario
N8W 1H4 

tel. 519-985-8410
fax. 519-985-8409