RE: 10g residential CPE

[Tony Wicks]

So here in New Zealand 2/2Gbs & 4/4Gbs XGS-PON has just been rolled out in 
conjunction with the existing GPON rollout (Currently 79% of the country). CPE 
is definitely an issue and the most popular way of dealing with it is to use 
the Nokia XS-250WX-A ONT as the RGW as well. Permissions on the ONT are a 
little bit of an issue right now but this is being actively worked on and 
should be sorted in the coming few months. The ONT provides one 10GBASET and 4 
gig ports as well as 4x4AC wifi. Realistically I have found using a multigig 
switch is very much the way to go (Mikrotik CRS312-4C+8XG-RM in my case) as 
then you can use 2.5GBASET and 5GBASET to clients. 2.5G seems to work fine on 
any ratty old cat5E you already have and USB3 dongles can be had for $25 or so. 
10GBASET is real picky on cabling and I have found that 2.5G and 5G work much 
better if you are not doing a complete re-cable of the site.
Stand alone RGW's are hard to find, I'd be interested to hear if people have 
found anything smaller than the Mikrotik RB4011 or CCR's as well. People are 
using the Unify Pro's but they really don't perform at 4gig. Obviously wifi is 
not going to benefit much from XGSPON, but even then having that massive upload 
available is very nice. The biggest issue with these speeds as an ISP is trying 
to train the customers that the home setup that they have spent a bunch of 
money on is unlikely to give them pretty 4Gb/s speed tests as there are 
bottlenecks all over their personal devices.

Here is the result of using the Nokia ONT and the Mikrotik Switch - 
https://www.speedtest.net/result/c/66e1df88-7d5d-4e72-94ca-3d159d7edf53 of 
note, only my 10G connected Linux server does this, all the various other 
devices struggle to "speedtest" faster than 2-3 gig, even the high end devices.



-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Brandon 
Martin
Sent: Friday, 25 December 2020 4:54 pm
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: 10g residential CPE

On 12/24/20 7:13 PM, Steven Karp wrote:
> Copper 2.5 Gbps Multi-gig uplinks on Wifi 6 gateways are coming out in
> 2021 from most vendors.
> 
> I am using XGS PON in trials and have been impressed with the speed 
> and cost.

Pretty much this.  XGS-PON seems to be "here now" and the costs on both the CO 
and CPE side have gotten down to where it's probably worth going straight to it 
(skipping GPON) in new deployments unless you think you can get away with just 
GPON for 5+ years.  I'm not sure if it's worth overlaying existing GPON 
deployments yet, but we're getting close, and offering "multi-gig" is, while 
still not very useful from a practical point of view for most customers, a 
potential marketing advantage.

I've been only recommending GPON for new, greenfield deployments in rural 
situations where expected speeds are low to begin with, density is low, and 
there may be a desire to push the optical link budget as it is a bit better 
than typical XGS-PON systems.  That's been the case for about a year, now.

Customer facing routers are not quite there, yet.  I think Asus has one, but 
I've seen mixed reviews.  And what's out now is still limited to 2.5GBASE-T and 
often only on the WAN port (LAN ports are still
1000BASE-T) meaning in practice customers can't get any more than gigabit 
speeds to a single endpoint (not that many endpoints can keep up, anyway) for 
that all-important speed test.

One of my router vendors has been teasing me with a "true 10Gb" router due out 
1Q 2021.  I've been told to expect NBASE-T (1G, 2.5G, 5G, 10G) on both WAN and 
all LAN ports + 802.11ax "Wifi 6" with at least 5Gbps of real-world IPv4 
throughput with NAT and essentially wire-speed IPv6 without NAT or content 
inspection at a realistic price point.  I'll be interested to see what they 
actually deliver as that would make future-looking multi-gig deployments 
actually meaningful.

Of course, you can replace XGS-PON with 10G-EPON if that's your preference.  I 
actually kinda prefer the IEEE versions, but most of my vendors concentrate on 
the ITU/Bellcore stuff in North America, so GPON/XGS-PON it is.
--
Brandon Martin

Re: 10g residential CPE

[Brandon Martin]

On 12/24/20 7:13 PM, Steven Karp wrote:
Copper 2.5 Gbps Multi-gig uplinks on Wifi 6 gateways are coming out in 
2021 from most vendors.


I am using XGS PON in trials and have been impressed with the speed and 
cost.


Pretty much this.  XGS-PON seems to be "here now" and the costs on both 
the CO and CPE side have gotten down to where it's probably worth going 
straight to it (skipping GPON) in new deployments unless you think you 
can get away with just GPON for 5+ years.  I'm not sure if it's worth 
overlaying existing GPON deployments yet, but we're getting close, and 
offering "multi-gig" is, while still not very useful from a practical 
point of view for most customers, a potential marketing advantage.


I've been only recommending GPON for new, greenfield deployments in 
rural situations where expected speeds are low to begin with, density is 
low, and there may be a desire to push the optical link budget as it is 
a bit better than typical XGS-PON systems.  That's been the case for 
about a year, now.


Customer facing routers are not quite there, yet.  I think Asus has one, 
but I've seen mixed reviews.  And what's out now is still limited to 
2.5GBASE-T and often only on the WAN port (LAN ports are still 
1000BASE-T) meaning in practice customers can't get any more than 
gigabit speeds to a single endpoint (not that many endpoints can keep 
up, anyway) for that all-important speed test.


One of my router vendors has been teasing me with a "true 10Gb" router 
due out 1Q 2021.  I've been told to expect NBASE-T (1G, 2.5G, 5G, 10G) 
on both WAN and all LAN ports + 802.11ax "Wifi 6" with at least 5Gbps of 
real-world IPv4 throughput with NAT and essentially wire-speed IPv6 
without NAT or content inspection at a realistic price point.  I'll be 
interested to see what they actually deliver as that would make 
future-looking multi-gig deployments actually meaningful.


Of course, you can replace XGS-PON with 10G-EPON if that's your 
preference.  I actually kinda prefer the IEEE versions, but most of my 
vendors concentrate on the ITU/Bellcore stuff in North America, so 
GPON/XGS-PON it is.

--
Brandon Martin

Re: 10g residential CPE

[Steven Karp]

On Dec 24, 2020, at 5:44 PM, Ben Cannon  wrote:

 Anyone else doing it? Do you like your gear?

Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon, ASCE
6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
CEO
b...@6by7.net
"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the 
world.”

FCC License KJ6FJJ

Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.

Copper 2.5 Gbps Multi-gig uplinks on Wifi 6 gateways are coming out in 2021 
from most vendors.

I am using XGS PON in trials and have been impressed with the speed and cost.

Steven

10g residential CPE

[Ben Cannon]

Anyone else doing it? Do you like your gear? 

Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon, ASCE
6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
CEO 
b...@6by7.net
"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the 
world.”

FCC License KJ6FJJ

Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.