Re: New addresses for b.root-servers.net

[Masataka Ohta]

William Herrin wrote:


Certainly we would appreciate other opinions about what the right length
of a change-over time would be, especially from the operational
communities that will be most impacted by this change.


Considering the possibility that, in a long run, remaining
12 sets (4 and 6) of IP addresses will also change, the proper
length should be determined assuming all the 13 sets of
addresses will change (not necessarily at the same time).


A server generation is about 3 years before it's obsolete and is
generally replaced. I suggest making the old address operable for two
generations (6 years) and black-holed for another generation (3 more
years).


You are assuming managed servers under Moore's law.

But, after Moore, a server generation will be longer.

Moreover, a linux-based black box, vendor of which has
disappeared, may be used for 10 or 20 years without being
managed.

Then, another important period is the period to reserve
the IP addresses once used for root servers. If the
addresses are reused by some bad guys, systems
depending on them can easily be compromised.

For the reservation period, 50 years of reservation
period of ISO3166 country codes seems to be reasonable.

And, if the addresses are reserved, there is no
reason not to keep using the addresses as
alternative addresses of active root name servers.

Masataka Ohta

PS

First of all, it is a bad idea to change the
addresses of root servers. For political ceremony, it
is enough to transfer address blocks to LACNIC.

Re: New addresses for b.root-servers.net

[William Herrin]

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 3:22 PM Wes Hardaker  wrote:
> 1. There is some definite disagreement in opinions we've heard at this
> point, where we've heard from the other extreme opinion where they
> actually wish we wouldn't support the old addresses beyond the TTL at
> the time of the changeover (IE, a bit longer than 48 hours).

Why? Are they fans of breaking the Internet? There is no TTL on the
root hints file and software update cycles are generally a lot longer
than 48 hours. Yes, I know resolvers are supposed to discard the hints
once they have the authoritative NS and A records, but you'd just be
begging for unintended consequences.


> 2. I'll note that we are still serving DNS requests at the addresses that
> we switched away from in 2017 [1][2].  At that time we actually only
> promised 6 months and we've doubled that time length with our latest
> announced change.
>  But we do need a date after which we can turn off
> service to an address block if some reason demands it.
>
> Certainly we would appreciate other opinions about what the right length
> of a change-over time would be, especially from the operational
> communities that will be most impacted by this change.

A server generation is about 3 years before it's obsolete and is
generally replaced. I suggest making the old address operable for two
generations (6 years) and black-holed for another generation (3 more
years).

Perhaps make it a false responder in the last of those 9 years so that
anybody who is truly that far behind on their software updates gets
enough of a spanking to stop sending you packets. You'll have problems
repurposing the address and its subnet until folks stop sending you
DNS query packets, even if you don't respond to them.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: New addresses for b.root-servers.net

[Wes Hardaker]

Jan Schaumann via NANOG  writes:

> > USC/ISI is renumbering both its IPv4 and IPv6 addresses for
> > b.root-servers.net on 2023-11-27. Our new IPv4 address will be
> > 170.247.170.2 and our new IPv6 address will be 2801:1b8:10::b.
> > USC/ISI will continue to support root service over our current IPv4 and
> > IPv6 addresses for at least one year (until 2024-11-27) in order to
> > provide a stable transition period while new root hints files are
> > distributed in software and operating system packages.
> 
> I know it says "at least", but support for the old
> addresses for only one year seems like a very short
> time in this context.  I hope USC/ISI will be able to
> keep the old addresses functional for much longer.

Greetings Jan,

A few points on this matter:

1. There is some definite disagreement in opinions we've heard at this
point, where we've heard from the other extreme opinion where they
actually wish we wouldn't support the old addresses beyond the TTL at
the time of the changeover (IE, a bit longer than 48 hours).

2. I'll note that we are still serving DNS requests at the addresses that
we switched away from in 2017 [1][2].  At that time we actually only
promised 6 months and we've doubled that time length with our latest
announced change.  But we do need a date after which we can turn off
service to an address block if some reason demands it.

Certainly we would appreciate other opinions about what the right length
of a change-over time would be, especially from the operational
communities that will be most impacted by this change.

[1]: https://b.root-servers.org/news/2017/06/01/new-ipv6.html
[2]: https://b.root-servers.org/news/2017/08/09/new-ipv4.html

-- 
Wes Hardaker 
USC/ISI

Verizon business internet contact needed

[Chuck Church]

Hey all, if any Verizon engineer could hit me up offline about a ticket
we've had, it would be appreciated.  We've got a site in Illinois that has a
new circuit, works well to Verizon speedtest, but poor elsewhere, including
our SD-WAN destinations.  I'm curious if UDP/2426 gets any unusual treatment
on your backbone, etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Chuck

[NANOG-announce] N88 Panel: "How to Survive NANOG as an Introvert" + More

[Nanog News]

*N88 Panel: "How to Survive NANOG as an Introvert" *
*Louie Lee Will Moderate Panel Discussing Coping Strategies for Introverted
Attendees*

A NANOG conference can be arduous for the introverted community as making
new friends is not a strength nor a desire, and socializing can be
exhausting.

"This is a problem as the tech industry primarily draws introverts to it,"
he said.

"For attendees to continue coming to NANOG events, they need to feel like
they are part of the community," he continued.

*READ MORE
*

*Len Bosack Takes NANOG 88 Keynote Stage *
*"From Data Links to Internets: A Quick Tour"*

>From concept to equipment needs to various attempts to today—Bosack
provides insight into the path of getting from the initial data links
before the Internet to the commercial Internet the world has come to know.

*VIEW AGENDA * 

*Don't Miss NANOG 88 Social Events! *
*Invest in the Strength of Your Community *

Connect + network at these fantastic daily social events during NANOG 88!

*VIEW SOCIALS * 

*Virtually Attend NANOG 88*
*Can't Make it In-Person? Join Us Virtually!*

*NANOG 88 is less than two weeks away!* Not able to make it to Seattle?
Join virtually and stream presentations, participate in real-time chat
forums + more.

*REGISTER NOW * 
___
NANOG-announce mailing list
NANOG-announce@nanog.org
https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-announce

N88 Panel: "How to Survive NANOG as an Introvert" + More

[Nanog News]

*N88 Panel: "How to Survive NANOG as an Introvert" *
*Louie Lee Will Moderate Panel Discussing Coping Strategies for Introverted
Attendees*

A NANOG conference can be arduous for the introverted community as making
new friends is not a strength nor a desire, and socializing can be
exhausting.

"This is a problem as the tech industry primarily draws introverts to it,"
he said.

"For attendees to continue coming to NANOG events, they need to feel like
they are part of the community," he continued.

*READ MORE
*

*Len Bosack Takes NANOG 88 Keynote Stage *
*"From Data Links to Internets: A Quick Tour"*

>From concept to equipment needs to various attempts to today—Bosack
provides insight into the path of getting from the initial data links
before the Internet to the commercial Internet the world has come to know.

*VIEW AGENDA * 

*Don't Miss NANOG 88 Social Events! *
*Invest in the Strength of Your Community *

Connect + network at these fantastic daily social events during NANOG 88!

*VIEW SOCIALS * 

*Virtually Attend NANOG 88*
*Can't Make it In-Person? Join Us Virtually!*

*NANOG 88 is less than two weeks away!* Not able to make it to Seattle?
Join virtually and stream presentations, participate in real-time chat
forums + more.

*REGISTER NOW * 

Re: New addresses for b.root-servers.net

[Jan Schaumann via NANOG]

Robert Story  wrote:
> 
> USC/ISI is renumbering both its IPv4 and IPv6 addresses for
> b.root-servers.net on 2023-11-27. Our new IPv4 address will be
> 170.247.170.2 and our new IPv6 address will be 2801:1b8:10::b.
> USC/ISI will continue to support root service over our current IPv4 and
> IPv6 addresses for at least one year (until 2024-11-27) in order to
> provide a stable transition period while new root hints files are
> distributed in software and operating system packages.

I know it says "at least", but support for the old
addresses for only one year seems like a very short
time in this context.  I hope USC/ISI will be able to
keep the old addresses functional for much longer.

-Jan

Re: Seattle NANOG 88 things to see

[Herb L]

A more eccentric attraction:
The Fremont Neighborhood Troll under the North end of the Aurora Bridge:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremont_Troll
Tourist trapish:
Pioneer Square:  https://www.pioneersquare.org/

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 5:00 PM William Herrin  wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> We're a couple weeks out from NANOG 88 so I thought I'd repost a list
> of things I think folks with computer and engineering backgrounds
> might enjoy doing up here in Seattle.
>
> 1. The Connections Museum is a must-see for telecom enthusiasts (which
> I assume you are since you're attending a NANOG meeting). Six
> different phone switches (some electromechanical) and a boatload of
> other telecom stuff taking up a floor and a half of a "central office"
> building. In good working order. You can see and, to some extent,
> touch. https://www.telcomhistory.org/connections-museum-seattle/
>
> Beware: It's only open on Sundays from 10 am to 3 pm, so if you want
> to check it out, you'll have to come in early for it.
>
>
> 2. The monorail (https://www.seattlemonorail.com/) is a well
> maintained German-engineered 1960s vision of the future. Departs from
> Westlake Center about 3 blocks from the hotel. Runs to the Space
> Needle and MoPop (the Museum of Popular Culture) which are also worth
> seeing. Both the monorail and space needle were built for the 1962
> World's Fair. Buy tickets for the Space Needle the day before. Sunset
> is particularly nice.
>
>
> 3. Snoqualmie Falls Hydroelectric Museum and power plant
> https://www.pse.com/en/pages/tours-and-recreation/snoqualmie-tours
>
> Beware that Snoqualmie Falls is a half hour or so outside of the city.
>
>
> 4. Northwest Railway Museum (also near Snoqualmie Falls)
> https://www.trainmuseum.org/
>
>
> 5.  Museum of Flight (this is Boeing's home town, so it's a high
> quality aircraft museum)
> https://www.museumofflight.org/
>
>
> 6. Pike Place Market, about 10 blocks from the hotel, is a Seattle icon.
>
>
> 7. Mt. Rainer, if you want to check it out, is a full-day trip: 2.5
> hours to get there, 2.5 hours to get back plus the time you spend in
> the
> park. They finally cleared the snow from the roads last weekend so
> it's open but it's too far to catch it in an afternoon. Decent odds of
> getting a shirtsleeves on the snow pack picture like this one:
> https://bill.herrin.us/pictures/20210627-rainier/img-20210627-145745.jpg
>
> If you've been to Rainier before, Diablo Lake, Cascades National Park
> and Washington Pass in the opposite direction are also beautiful.
>
>
>
> Some things to know about Seattle:
>
> * Summer weather is good weather in Seattle. Expect sunshine, mild to
> warm temperatures in the day, crisp in the morning. Light if any rain.
> 5 am sunrise, 9 pm sunset.
>
> * Downtown Seattle parking spaces are super-tight. If
> you rent a car, get a small one.
>
> * Seattle is -very- dog friendly. You'll encounter our generally
> well-behaved canine companions on the street, in stores and possibly
> even in the hotel and event venues. Pack your allergy medication if
> you need it.
>
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/
>