Re: Reporting Comcast outside plant issues?

2022-06-27 Thread Mike Hammett
Maybe. 


I saw multiple reports of a town this past week end that didn't respond to 
multiple calls for a transformer and pole CURRENTLY on fire. I guess they had 
better things to do. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Jay Hennigan"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 12:07:16 PM 
Subject: Re: Reporting Comcast outside plant issues? 

On 6/26/22 19:27, Justin Streiner wrote: 
> Does anyone here have a contact at Comcast for reporting outside plant 
> issues that are not (at the moment) service-affecting? I am not a 
> Comcast customer, and they make it nearly impossible for non-customers 
> to reach them unless you're signing up for service. 

Call the non-emergency number for your local PSAP (police or fire 
department) and report wires down. They'll know how to get it handled. 

-- 
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net 
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV 



Re: What say you, nanog re: Starlink vs 5G?

2022-06-24 Thread Mike Hammett
It's DirecTV that became part of AT, but now they're separated again. 

Dish Network is building a nation-wide terrestrial mobile network. Supposed to 
be the new #4 provider. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Owen DeLong via NANOG"  
To: "Michael Thomas"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 3:14:33 PM 
Subject: Re: What say you, nanog re: Starlink vs 5G? 







On Jun 24, 2022, at 13:12 , Michael Thomas < m...@mtcc.com > wrote: 


On 6/24/22 12:38 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: 





On Jun 24, 2022, at 12:33 , Michael Thomas < m...@mtcc.com > wrote: 


On 6/24/22 9:09 AM, Chris Wright wrote: 


The term "5G" among technical circles started vague, became better defined over 
the course of several years, and is becoming vague again. This nuance was never 
well understood in the public eye, nor by mass publications like CNN. This is a 
battle for 12GHz, not 5G. 


But is what Starlink saying true or not? 

It would be a pity to not have an alternative to incumbent telephants. 

Mike 


It’s not entirely clear, without knowing the technical details of the Starlink 
modulation scheme whether or not they could successfully share the 12Ghz 
spectrum. 

I have no reason to disbelieve their claims. 

Frankly, I really don’t think that Dish’s idea of providing 5G mobile service 
from satellites is a particularly good or beneficial one and granting them 
12Ghz spectrum for this purpose is probably not really in the public interest. 


I thought they were land based? What I read is that being land based means that 
they can transmit at much higher power. 




I wasn’t aware that Dish had terrestrial facilities. I had forgotten their 
absorption into AT 


So I retract my comments in that regard… They are a traditional telephant and I 
think that terrestrial 5G on 12Ghz is even less useful. 







OTOH, I think Starlink is most definitely an interesting product that does 
provide a clear path to reasonable alternatives to the incumbent telephants. 


Especially when you factor in mobility when they get there. No more roaming 
fees, all over the world. 




Yep… Probably one of the reasons DishT is trying to fight so hard to cause 
them grief. 


Owen 




Re: Comcast Rolling Outages

2022-06-16 Thread Mike Hammett
Rolling power outages in the Chicago area are very uncommon. Usually it's due 
to a failure of something and not a planned load shed, but even then, it's 
uncommon any time there isn't physical damage from a storm. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Glenn Kelley"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group"  
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 9:46:00 AM 
Subject: Re: Comcast Rolling Outages 


Mike - There are a lot of rolling power outages. 
Thus the reason for the overheating most likely as gear, while on battery 
backup, generally lacks the cooling capacity. 

Horizon, Comcast, Wow/Breezeway apparently are doing the same across the 
Columbus Marketing in Ohio as well. 




Glenn S. Kelley, Connectivity.Engineer 
Text and Voice Direct: 740-206-9624 






IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. 
They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this 
email by mistake, please notify Glenn Kelley, the sender, immediately and do 
not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof. 




On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:03 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I recently saw this on Facebook: 



BREAKING: Some Xfinity/Comcast users are getting a message in the Chicago and 
Springfield, Illinois markets that they are shutting down Internet service 
until 11:15 PM this evening due to overheating equipment... 
Update: some areas are doing rolling outages. 




Are rolling outages due to heat something common for ISPs to do? I've never 
heard of it for any of the hundreds of ISPs I've talked to. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






Re: Comcast Rolling Outages

2022-06-15 Thread Mike Hammett
I know the person that posted it and they wouldn't knowingly post something 
false. That's not to say that that some trickster isn't clever. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Jay Hennigan"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2022 4:20:40 PM 
Subject: Re: Comcast Rolling Outages 

On 6/15/22 14:03, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> I recently saw this on Facebook: 
> 
> BREAKING: Some Xfinity/Comcast users are getting a message in the 
> Chicago and Springfield, Illinois markets that they are shutting down 
> Internet service until 11:15 PM this evening due to overheating 
> equipment... 
> Update: some areas are doing rolling outages. 

Are you sure this isn't a spoof? 

> Are rolling outages due to heat something common for ISPs to do? I've 
> never heard of it for any of the hundreds of ISPs I've talked to. 

Not in my experience. Network gear generates heat. Datacenters are or 
should be designed to remove this heat, with appropriate redundancy. 

In outside HFC cable plant, there are distributed cable trunk amplifiers 
and fiber equipment. These are designed to survive a wide range of 
temperatures. A failure in the outside plant distribution would also 
take out their cable television offerings. 

This outside plant equipment is typically locally powered from the local 
utility, with power injected into the coaxial trunk cable. In many cases 
there is no battery backup or very little for these trunk amplifiers and 
fiber media converters. 

If the local power utility is having rolling power blackouts, it's going 
to affect cable modem customers in the area of the rolling power 
blackouts, many of which won't notice because their power is also out. 
Direct fiber customers (GPON, etc.) shouldn't have an issue. 

-- 
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net 
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV 



Comcast Rolling Outages

2022-06-15 Thread Mike Hammett
I recently saw this on Facebook: 



BREAKING: Some Xfinity/Comcast users are getting a message in the Chicago and 
Springfield, Illinois markets that they are shutting down Internet service 
until 11:15 PM this evening due to overheating equipment... 
Update: some areas are doing rolling outages. 




Are rolling outages due to heat something common for ISPs to do? I've never 
heard of it for any of the hundreds of ISPs I've talked to. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



Re: Upstream bandwidth usage

2022-06-11 Thread Mike Hammett
It's not always something the service provider has the ability to change. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 2:38:29 PM 
Subject: Re: Upstream bandwidth usage 




On 6/10/22 6:52 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Due to the demand being predominately in the downward direction, half-duplex 
(or effectively half-duplex) systems either allocate more TDMA slots or more 
channels to downstream, at the expense of upstream. 



Well, my dsl provider has like a 25/5 50/10 so clearly everybody has the 
headroom to get to 10 at least. Marketing, of course, but I wonder how many 
support calls they got because "my internet is slow" from saturated upstream 
with zoom calls. I mean, most users have no clue about such things. 


Mike 









- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 3:46:24 PM 
Subject: Re: Upstream bandwidth usage 


On 6/9/22 1:26 PM, Mel Beckman wrote: 
> With 430 GB versus 32 GV average down versus up usage today, according 
> to your article, this is still not a case for symmetrical consumer 
> bandwidth. Yes, the upstream usage increased slightly more than the 
> downstream usage. But the ratio was still so big that it would take 
> decades for them to join. I doubt they ever will. Consumers just don’t 
> have that much days up to push yet, and probably never will. 
> 
> Also, a lot of that Usage can be explained by video conferencing 
> during Covid, which has dropped off significantly already. 
> 
> 
If it's so tiny, why shape it aggressively? Why shouldn't I be able to 
burst to whatever is available at the moment? I would think most users 
would be happy with that. 

Mike 







Re: Upstream bandwidth usage

2022-06-10 Thread Mike Hammett
Less vanity over there? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Mark Tinka"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 7:17:47 PM 
Subject: Re: Upstream bandwidth usage 



On 6/10/22 17:26, Kord Martin wrote: 

> 
> Especially when you consider that XGSPON and GPON and coexist. 

We've seen proposals from Huawei, for example, where OLT shelves can 
support both GPON and XG-PON line cards. 

Just not seeing our market going in that direction yet. 

Mark. 



Re: Upstream bandwidth usage

2022-06-10 Thread Mike Hammett
Due to the demand being predominately in the downward direction, half-duplex 
(or effectively half-duplex) systems either allocate more TDMA slots or more 
channels to downstream, at the expense of upstream. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 3:46:24 PM 
Subject: Re: Upstream bandwidth usage 


On 6/9/22 1:26 PM, Mel Beckman wrote: 
> With 430 GB versus 32 GV average down versus up usage today, according 
> to your article, this is still not a case for symmetrical consumer 
> bandwidth. Yes, the upstream usage increased slightly more than the 
> downstream usage. But the ratio was still so big that it would take 
> decades for them to join. I doubt they ever will. Consumers just don’t 
> have that much days up to push yet, and probably never will. 
> 
> Also, a lot of that Usage can be explained by video conferencing 
> during Covid, which has dropped off significantly already. 
> 
> 
If it's so tiny, why shape it aggressively? Why shouldn't I be able to 
burst to whatever is available at the moment? I would think most users 
would be happy with that. 

Mike 




Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-06-07 Thread Mike Hammett
Vanity is what most of this is about. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: "Tony Wicks" , nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 6:13:25 PM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 




On 6/6/22 4:08 PM, Tony Wicks wrote: 






* Do you have any stats on what the average usage was before and after the 
build out? I'd expect it to go up just because but was it dramatic? 


Well, Back in the FTTC days of ADSL/VDSL (very little cable) as an ISP I seem 
to remember the average home connection was about 1.2Mb/s. Now its about 3Mb/s 
so no, the usage itself does not jump dramatically when the bottlenecks went 
away. A great example of this is the lowest speed on the GPON network recently 
jumped from 100/20 to 300/100 across the board and as an ISP we barely noticed 
anything. Before this the two most popular speeds were the 100/20 and 1000/500 
plans, 50% of users would order the 1000/500 plan, most without really knowing 
why but it was only about $20 different so why not. As an ISP the 1G users only 
used about 10%-20% more overall capacity than the 100/20 users. 



Excellent, so you're printing money catering to people's vanity :) 
Mike 



Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-06-07 Thread Mike Hammett
Would it matter if it took 10 minutes or an hour? 


What's the OneDrive rate limit? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Tony Wicks"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 5:36:13 PM 
Subject: RE: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 



>This whole thread is about hypothetical futures, so it's not hard to imagine 
>downloads filling to available capacity. 
>Mike 

So, a good example of how this capacity is used, In New Zealand we have a 
pretty broad fibre network covering most of the population. My niece asked me 
to share my backup copy of her wedding photo’s/video’s the other day. I have a 
4Gb/s / 4Gb/s XGSPON connection and she’s got a 1Gb/s / 500Mb/s GPON 
connection. I simply dropped a copy of the 5.1G directory into a one drive 
folder and shared it, 10 minutes later (one drive is still limited in how fast 
you can upload) she had it all and she was very happy. With these speeds its 
not even a consideration to think about capacity, everything just works. 


Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-06-06 Thread Mike Hammett
" I must have read different posts." 




More likely, a lack of understanding. There's a difference between, "No one 
should have this" and "the government shouldn't be paying for people to have 
this at this time." 




"fortunate few who happen to be in the 
good locations" 


Most people live in locations where such a service could be reasonably 
delivered. 




"A larger market is good for business, no?" 


It is, but also good for business is not wasting money. 




"Those have been just about managing to keep up to varying 
degrees." 


Keep up with what? Want or need? 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Brandon Butterworth"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "Michael Thomas" , nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 11:27:54 AM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 

On Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 09:44:20AM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> " I find it sad that so many would argue for never needing anything 
> more than we have today." 
> 
> Few to none are doing that. 

I must have read different posts. 

> Upgrades are an organic part of the process. Some places they're 
> hard, but most places they're comparatively easy. Let's stop 
> putting the cart before the horse just to feel good about 
> ourselves. That's too expensive. 

I'm not clear what you're suggesting should not be done, I agree with 
you, upgrades are good, make them worthwhile ones. 

> "totally fail to provide the same to everyone." 
> 
> Why should that be desirable? 

I dunno, maybe it'd be nice if we could provide services to 
everyone not just the fortunate few who happen to be in the 
good locations? A larger market is good for business, no? 
Maybe the less fortunate would do better with access to 
the same resources others have. 

> "If we had moved to fibre everywhere then perhaps" 
> 
> Negative. DOCSIS works well enough. Modern DSL implementations are good 
> enough. Fixed wireless in many cases is good enough. Next gen satellite is 
> good enough. 

Not really. Those have been just about managing to keep up to varying 
degrees. 

DSL totally lost it as increasing speed reduced range, the UK ended up 
deploying around 90k street cabinets (and it's a small country) to handle 
the reduction from km's to 100m's and still failed on ancient cabling. 
Rural got left behind as the distance between premises is greater than 
the range of a cab. I've deployed FTTH over the last few years to 
people who were still on 0.5 - 1MB/s DSL, this was common in rural areas 
(lots are installing FTTH now) 

Satellite has always been a dissapointment, LEO may do better but is 
a huge investment so furthers my point that we do need to invest in 
steps up. 

FWA has always been a stop gap, largely limited by having to 
use shared spectrum here. On my FWA network the advent of 60GHz 
is great but for PTMP is too short range for our rural premises. 

All are lacking in upload speed, we found that out fairly 
quickly in the pandemic when there was a sudden change in 
use patterns from what people thought would be fine forever. 

> "If you build it they will come." 
> 
> So then build the hypothetical content that needs this? 

Have been. We were looking at turning off UK terrestrial broadcast 
in the late 2020s but fibre deployment was insufficient to provide 
equivalent coverage. That's changing, fibre is going in all over so 
we're looking at mid 2030s or so before we can start making 
proper use of IP only distribution and the extra capabilities it 
provides. 

> Gigabit download level service is available to enough (at least in the 
> US) that if such a downstream heavy service were on our doorstep, it 
> would work for most Americans. 

That's really good then, problem solved. 

> Once people got tired of being proven that you need such forward-looking 
> downstream capacity in the regulatory world 

That's back to cart before horse, no? Did people not get the 
Gigabit due to such pressure? Why would it not be good to do the 
same for upload? 

> they just moved to upstream and cried wolf there too. Yes, many services 
> do have mildly inadequate upstream, but certainly not anything to change 
> the regulatory environment over. 

Or moved on to the next problem. I think they are setting the goal too 
low if it's expected to accomodate a longer term change to home working. 

If your home is where you work, rest, and play why not symmetrical? 

brandon 



Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-06-06 Thread Mike Hammett
If you want to argue that a bigger number is better, sure. 


However, regulatory definitions and funding has real meaning. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Casey Russell via NANOG"  
To: "North American Network Operators' Group"  
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 9:56:17 AM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 






For a long time now... 

I have had the opinion that we have reached the age of "peak 
bandwidth", that nearly nobody's 4 person home needs more than 50Mbit 
with good queue management. Certainly increasing upload 
speeds dramatically (and making static IP addressing and saner 
firewalling feasible) might shift some resources from the cloud, which 
I'd like (anyone using tailscale here?), but despite 
8k video (which nobody can discern), it's really hard to use up > 
50Mbit for more than a second or three with current applications. 






One single digital game download to a console (xbox, playstation, etc.) can be 
over 80Gb of data. That's half of your Saturday just waiting to play a game. 
That assumes you'r'e getting the full 50Mbit (your provider isn't 
oversubscribing) to yourself in the home. It also assumes your console (and all 
the games on it) is fully updated when you fired it up to download that new 
game. Hope you didn't want a couple of new games (after Christmas or a 
birthday). I admit, it's not a daily activity, and it might not look like much 
in a monthly average. But I'd argue there are plenty of applications where 
50Mbit equals HOURS of download wait for "average families" already today, not 
seconds. 


Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-06-06 Thread Mike Hammett
" I find it sad that so many would argue for never needing anything 
more than we have today." 


Few to none are doing that. Upgrades are an organic part of the process. Some 
places they're hard, but most places they're comparatively easy. Let's stop 
putting the cart before the horse just to feel good about ourselves. That's too 
expensive. 




"totally fail to provide the same to everyone." 


Why should that be desirable? 




"If we had moved to fibre everywhere then perhaps" 


Negative. DOCSIS works well enough. Modern DSL implementations are good enough. 
Fixed wireless in many cases is good enough. Next gen satellite is good enough. 






"If you build it they will come." 


So then build the hypothetical content that needs this? 




Gigabit download level service is available to enough (at least in the US) that 
if such a downstream heavy service were on our doorstep, it would work for most 
Americans. Once people got tired of being proven that you need such 
forward-looking downstream capacity in the regulatory world, they just moved to 
upstream and cried wolf there too. Yes, many services do have mildly inadequate 
upstream, but certainly not anything to change the regulatory environment over. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -----

From: "Brandon Butterworth"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "Michael Thomas" , nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 9:31:13 AM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 

On Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 08:06:50AM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> "So what happens if the Next Big Thing..." 

I find it sad that so many would argue for never needing anything 
more than we have today. It's like why did we bother coming out of 
the trees, or the oceans even (yes Apple digital watches are a pretty 
neat idea). 

The non fibre installations we have today, while working for some, 
totally fail to provide the same to everyone. While fixing that 
globally should be a priority it should not be done in a manner 
that will require it all doing again in 10 years. 

Building in some headroom for growth makes sense, we're not talking 
lots it's only 10x ish to do gigabit ish, so within error margin. 

> I see this said a lot, but it doesn't really mean anything. We 
> are sufficiently close to whatever is likely to come that it 
> can come and bandwidths will have to catch up upon its launch. 

If we had moved to fibre everywhere then perhaps, but until 
then we face many decades trying to get that done. So if 
something comes up we may be stuck waiting. Stuff always 
comes up. 

When I started the BBC streaming we were told not to bother by 
ISPs, the quality was rubbish, the network couldn't handle it and 
never will. I did it anyway and the net grew but it was a long 
slow process with lots of screaming. It'd be nice to not have to 
wait so long next time because people want to deploy more legacy. 

> If we're not that close, then it's unrealistic to pre-build 
> capacity for imaginary developments that never come. 

If you build it they will come. People are more likely to 
invest in making things if they see a realistic timescale 
to deployment. If they also have to upgrade everyones home 
too they are less likely to bother. 

brandon 



Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-06-06 Thread Mike Hammett
"So what happens if the Next Big Thing..." 


I see this said a lot, but it doesn't really mean anything. We are sufficiently 
close to whatever is likely to come that it can come and bandwidths will have 
to catch up upon its launch. If we're not that close, then it's unrealistic to 
pre-build capacity for imaginary developments that never come. 




Napster came out in 1999. Broadband use in 2000 was 1%. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 5:04:58 PM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 


On 6/1/22 1:55 PM, Livingood, Jason via NANOG wrote: 
>>> Saying most people don't need more than 25 Mbps is like saying 640k is 
> >> enough for anybody. 
> 
> The challenge is any definition of capacity (speed) requirements is only a 
> point-in-time gauge of sufficiency given the mix of apps popular at the time 
> & any such point-in-time gauge will look silly in retrospect. ;-) If I were a 
> policy-maker in this space I would "inflation-adjust" the speeds for the 
> future. In order to adapt to recent changes in user behavior and 
> applications, I'd do that on a trailing 2-year basis (not too short nor too 
> long a timeframe) and update the future-need forecast annually. And CAGR 
> could be derived from a sample across multiple networks or countries. In 
> practice, that would mean looking at the CAGR for the last 2 years for US and 
> DS and then projecting that growth rate into future years. So if you say 35% 
> CAGR for both US and DS and project out the commonplace need/usage then 100 
> Mbps / 10 Mbps becomes as follows below. If some new apps emerge that start 
> driving something like US at a higher CAGR then future years automatically 
> get adjusted on an annual basis. 

So what happens if the Next Big Thing requires a lot of upstream? It's 
always been sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy that people won't use a 
lot of upstream because there isn't enough upstream. The pandemic pretty 
much blew that away with video conferencing, etc. 

Mike 




Re: FCC vs FAA Story

2022-06-05 Thread Mike Hammett
It's nice to see the FCC take regulating receivers seriously, finally. It's a 
two way street and we've only been looking one direction the whole time. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Crist Clark"  
To: "nanog@nanog.org list"  
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 12:18:20 AM 
Subject: FCC vs FAA Story 

There was a lively thread on NANOG about the FCC and FAA conflict over G5 
spectrum and altimeters when it all came to a head early this year. ProPublica 
published an investigative report on it last week, 



https://www.propublica.org/article/fcc-faa-5g-planes-trump-biden 

Whaddya know. Plenty of blame to go around. Government regulative bodies 
captured by the industries they’re supposed to regulate. The usual stuff. 


Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-05-31 Thread Mike Hammett
" However, this isn’t exactly new… Windows used to come on something like 31 
3.5” floppies at one point." 




But you can still get incremental Windows Updates and don't have to redownload 
Windows any time something changes. 





----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Owen DeLong via NANOG"  
To: "Michael Thomas"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2022 1:26:39 AM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 


> I agree that it probably doesn't change much for the ISP's (my rural ISP 
> installing fiber apparently disagrees tho). The thing is that if you're 
> talking about downloads, the game manufacturers will just fill to whatever 
> available capacity the pipes will give so it probably won't ever get better. 

I don’t think game manufacturers expand their games based on available download 
bandwidth. I think that games have gotten richer and the graphics environments 
and capabilities have improved and content more expansive to a point where yes, 
games are several BluRays worth of download now instead of being shipped on 
multiple discs. 

However, this isn’t exactly new… Windows used to come on something like 31 3.5” 
floppies at one point. 

However, yes, a download will fill whatever bandwidth is available for as long 
as the download takes. If you’ve got 1Gpbs, the download will take 
significantly less time than if you have 100Mbps. 

> Maybe there a Next Big Thing that will be an even bigger bandwidth eater than 
> video. But I get the bigger limitation these days for a lot of people is 
> latency rather than bandwidth. That of course is harder to deal with. 

Latency is a limitation for things that are generally relatively low bandwidth 
(interactive audio, zoom, etc.). 

Higher bandwidth won’t solve the latency problem, but it does actually help 
some in that it reduces the duration of things other customers do to cause 
congestion which increases latency. 

Owen 




Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-05-31 Thread Mike Hammett
"The question I have for other operators: if you have a group of customers that 
subscribe to a 100Mb service, and all of them suddenly switched to a 1Gb 
service, would you expect an increase in overall bandwidth usage? " 


As someone offering up to gigabit, I wouldn't. They don't use what they have 
now, so why would they use more? 


I'm sure it's more than a 0 difference, but it isn't statistically relevant. 


That's, however, assuming you've spent the money to overbuild the 
infrastructure in that area to support something not needed. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Kord Martin"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2022 3:10:06 PM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 




I don’t think game manufacturers expand their games based on available download 
bandwidth. I think that games have gotten richer and the graphics environments 
and capabilities have improved and content more expansive to a point where yes, 
games are several BluRays worth of download now instead of being shipped on 
multiple discs. 



When I was a rural DSL customer, my problem wasn't necessarily with the size of 
the games, but rather that you'd have to re-download the entire game every 
week. It would take almost an entire week to download a game, then by time it's 
finally updated they've updated a tree texture and you need to download the 
whole game again. I understand why this happens but customers who didn't have 
access to broadband just got the shaft. 
I still have a lot of friends who don't have access to broadband and simply 
can't play modern games because of the always-online requirement and constant, 
huge updates. 


If the target is a non-fiber service, then 100/20 might make sense. If Fiber is 
being installed, then it’s hard to find a rationale for 1Gbps being more 
expensive than any lower capacity. 


The question I have for other operators: if you have a group of customers that 
subscribe to a 100Mb service, and all of them suddenly switched to a 1Gb 
service, would you expect an increase in overall bandwidth usage? 

I've been looking around for some other comments on bandwidth trends but I 
don't know how much of that would/should be confidential based on privacy or 
trade secret. 



Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-05-31 Thread Mike Hammett
" Bigger is better, even if you don’t need it, reigns supreme." 




Hence my earlier reference to the marketing machine. 





----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Brian Turnbow via NANOG"  
To: "David Bass" , "Sean Donelan"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 8:35:09 AM 
Subject: RE: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 



Here in Italy there have been a lot of investments to get better broadband. 
Such as government sponsored bundles for areas with no return on investments, 
for schools etc with a lot of focus on reaching gigabit speeds 
The results have been mainly positive even though there are delays. 
On the end user side in 2020 one of the largest ISPs started offering 2.5Gbps 
service 
Adds all over and users started asking for it, even though they don’t have a 
2.5 nic or router, so now all of the major providers are rolling it out. 
Illiad one uped them a couple of months ago pushing a 5Gbps service and now I 
get people asking me if we offer 5Gbps fiber lines.. pure marketing… 
I have a 1Gbps/100Mbps line and it is plenty enough for the family rarely do we 
even get near the limits. 
It’s kind of like when I ask for an Italian espresso in the states and get a 
cup full of coffee, no I just want a very small italian style espresso.. 
The response is Why? you are paying for it take it all 
Bigger is better, even if you don’t need it, reigns supreme. 



The real problem most users experience isn’t that they have a gig, or even 
100Mb of available download bandwidth…it’s that they infrequently are able to 
use that full bandwidth due to massive over subscription . 



The other issue is the minimal upload speed. It’s fairly easy to consume the 
10Mb that you’re typically getting as a residential customer. Even “business 
class” broadband service has a pretty poor upload bandwidth limit. 



We are a pretty high usage family, and 100/10 has been adequate, but there’s 
been times when we are pegged at the 10 Mb upload limit, and we start to see 
issues. 



I’d say 25/5 is a minimum for a single person. 



Would 1 gig be nice…yeah as long as the upload speed is dramatically increased 
as part of that. We would rarely use it, but that would likely be sufficient 
for a long time. I wouldn’t pay for the extra at this point though. 




On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 8:20 PM Sean Donelan < s...@donelan.com > wrote: 



Remember, this rulemaking is for 1.1 million locations with the "worst" 
return on investment. The end of the tail of the long tail. Rural and 
tribal locations which aren't profitable to provide higher speed 
broadband. 

These locations have very low customer density, and difficult to serve. 

After the Sandwich Isles Communications scandal, gold-plated proposals 
will be viewed with skepticism. While a proposal may have a lower total 
cost of ownership over decades, the business case is the cheapest for 
the first 10 years of subsidies. [massive over-simplification] 

Historically, these projects have lack of timely completion (abandoned, 
incomplete), and bad (overly optimistic?) budgeting. 




Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-05-31 Thread Mike Hammett
It can exceed 25 megs, but it isn't common. Certainly not common enough to 
throw hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars at the long tail. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Chris Adams"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2022 3:26:53 PM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 

Once upon a time, Mike Hammett  said: 
> Most households have no practical use for more than 25 megs. More is better, 
> but let's not just throw money into a fire because of a marketing machine. 

4K TVs are cheap, and 4K streaming content is plentiful, and usually 
runs 15-20 Mbps. The average household has more than one person, and 
they may want to watch different content. 

And that's today. Gaming streaming is ramping up (which needs both good 
bandwidth and low latency), and there'll always be things you haven't 
considered popping up. 

Saying most people don't need more than 25 Mbps is like saying 640k is 
enough for anybody. 
-- 
Chris Adams  



Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

2022-05-28 Thread Mike Hammett via NANOG
Most households have no practical use for more than 25 megs. More is better, 
but let's not just throw money into a fire because of a marketing machine. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Aaron Wendel"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2022 1:49:13 PM 
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers 

The Fiber Broadband Association estimates that the average US household 
will need more than a gig within 5 years. Why not just jump it to a gig 
or more? 


On 5/23/2022 1:40 PM, Sean Donelan wrote: 
> 
> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-higher-speed-goals-small-rural-broadband-providers-0
>  
> 
> 
> The Federal Communications Commission voted [May 19, 2022] to seek 
> comment on a proposal to provide additional universal service support 
> to certain rural carriers in exchange for increasing deployment to 
> more locations at higher speeds. The proposal would make changes to 
> the Alternative Connect America Cost Model (A-CAM) program, with the 
> goal of achieving widespread deployment of faster 100/20 Mbps 
> broadband service throughout the rural areas served by rural carriers 
> currently receiving A-CAM support. 
> 




Centurylink\Lumen

2022-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
There's a nearby Lumen route (originally Digital Teleport) where they have 
built their route to someone else's network where they've built a POP between 
their own construction and that third party dark fiber provider. 


That dark fiber provider is friendly. 


Knowing what they've built out in other places (compared to the number of 
strands available on the route), I was looking to utilize that lateral to get 
into the Centurylink POP from the dark fiber network. 


They've more or less said it doesn't exist and that it'd be $100k for the 
privilege of paying them more than I'm paying anyone else for a wave. I know it 
exists because they have no other way out. 


I'm hoping to find someone in Centurylink\Lumen with a clue that can look up a 
POP, look at what cables are actually there, strand counts, how big their IRU 
is, identify excess assets and let me use them to overpay them for service. 


Why I'm so specifically wanting Lumen is there are very limited options on the 
route I'm asking for. I'm already doing business with the others, so I'd like 
some entity diversity. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



Re: FCC to Consider New Rules to Combat International Scam Robocalls

2022-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
I believe the intent is for the service provider to then look up that call by 
source:destination, investigate how it came into the network, investigate if 
STIR/SHAKEN signed, and deal with appropriately. If signed, then there's a 
responsible party to engage. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 5:33:15 PM 
Subject: Re: FCC to Consider New Rules to Combat International Scam Robocalls 


On 4/27/22 2:41 PM, Sean Donelan wrote: 
> I've noticed a few (small number) of robocalls have started spoofing 
> international phone numbers instead of local phone numbers. I don't 
> know if this is because telephone gateways are doing a better job at 
> blocking neighbor caller ID spoofing -- or something else. 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-consider-new-rules-combat-international-scam-robocalls
>  
> 
> WASHINGTON, April 27, 2022 
> 
> [...] 
> The new rules, if adopted at the FCC’s May 19 Open Meeting, would 
> require gateway providers to participate in robocall mitigation, 
> including blocking efforts, take responsibility for illegal robocall 
> campaigns on their networks, cooperate with FCC enforcement efforts, 
> and quickly respond to efforts to trace illegal robocalls to their 
> source. Under the proposed Report and Order, non-compliance by a 
> gateway provider would result in that provider being removed from the 
> Robocall Mitigation Database and subject to mandatory blocking by 
> other network participants, essentially ending its ability to operate. 
> [...] 


So I have a question. Suppose that I wanted to report a call as being 
spam to my provider, say. With email, I can just send them a message 
with the full headers since it's in my inbox. There isn't the equivalent 
for an inbox for voip, so that would require the provider to keep 
records of the signaling, right? I mean it could be kept on the phone if 
it's terminating SIP, but it seems like the provider keeping records 
would be more efficient. What I want is a spam button on the ones that 
it doesn't say are a scam. 

Mike 




Dark\Conduit Pricing

2022-04-26 Thread Mike Hammett
ISP-Bandwidth used to be full of this kind of conversation. I'm not sure if 
anything ever replaced it. 


Where would be a good place to go to get the pulse of where the industry is at 
on dark fiber\empty conduit pricing? I understand that YMMV with supply and 
demand. Going into a major facility would be highly desirable, but may also 
have a lot of competition, depending on the Z location. In the middle of 
nowhere might be really expensive because no one else is there... or really 
cheap because it's on a competitive route. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



Re: Copper Termination Blocks

2022-04-15 Thread Mike Hammett
The problem with the Telect-style is that ever time we need to test a given 
pair, we have to pull it off, it ends up breaking, we test, then re-wrap it 
back on, losing an inch or so each time. For problem loops, this takes a 
sizable amount of wire out of one pair in the 25-pair bundle, then creating 
other issues. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Shawn L"  
To: "Dave Phelps"  
Cc: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 5:00:23 PM 
Subject: Re: Copper Termination Blocks 


I'd still go with telect-style blocks. Wire-wrap on the front and amphenol on 
the back/bottom depending you application. Way less space than 66 or 110. 

-Original Message- 
From: "Dave Phelps"  
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 4:27pm 
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Subject: Re: Copper Termination Blocks 




Hi Mike. I used Krone blocks back in the mid 90s. I really liked them. 
I'm afraid now your long-term options now are probably straight old 66 or 110 
blocks. 66 blocks give some added flexibility. 110s are more efficient as far 
as space consumed compared to 66 blocks. Krone and 110s have a very similar 
profile. 
Depending on how much copper you're terminating, you may want to plan the frame 
layout for cross-connect field space before building the frame. You don't want 
to end up with too much cross-connect wire volume in too small an area. That 
can get troublesome. 
Happy to discuss specifics. Just ping me off-list. 


On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:13 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 

I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter that it 
meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people. 

Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't offer much 
in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize well on a 19" or 23" 
rack. 

I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy to break 
into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well as their 
preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount. 

Well, Krone was bought by ADC. ADC was bought by Tyco Electronics. TE was 
bought by Commscope. Commscope discontinued everything I found interesting with 
no replacements. 


Some of the stuff is on eBay (even NIB), some not. 

Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers, mounts, etc.? 

Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 




Re: Copper Termination Blocks

2022-04-15 Thread Mike Hammett
*nods* 


We're just a CLEC in Frontier space, so they do the heavy lifting. We just need 
to interface the open-ended 100-pair cables Frontier gives us with our 
Occam\Calix gear. Given the "thoroughness" of the Frontier testing and 
troubleshooting process, we've taken up testing the customer pairs ourselves. 
Distance to fault, what kind of fault, etc. Telling them that info helps 
actually get things fixed more quickly. 


The most we have in any CO is 400 pair. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Dave Phelps"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 3:27:59 PM 
Subject: Re: Copper Termination Blocks 



Hi Mike. I used Krone blocks back in the mid 90s. I really liked them. 



I'm afraid now your long-term options now are probably straight old 66 or 110 
blocks. 66 blocks give some added flexibility. 110s are more efficient as far 
as space consumed compared to 66 blocks. Krone and 110s have a very similar 
profile. 



Depending on how much copper you're terminating, you may want to plan the frame 
layout for cross-connect field space before building the frame. You don't want 
to end up with too much cross-connect wire volume in too small an area. That 
can get troublesome. 



Happy to discuss specifics. Just ping me off-list. 



On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:13 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter that it 
meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people. 

Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't offer much 
in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize well on a 19" or 23" 
rack. 

I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy to break 
into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well as their 
preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount. 

Well, Krone was bought by ADC. ADC was bought by Tyco Electronics. TE was 
bought by Commscope. Commscope discontinued everything I found interesting with 
no replacements. 


Some of the stuff is on eBay (even NIB), some not. 

Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers, mounts, etc.? 

Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 





Copper Termination Blocks

2022-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett
I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter that it 
meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people.

Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't offer much 
in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize well on a 19" or 23" 
rack.

I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy to break 
into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well as their 
preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount.

Well, Krone was bought by ADC. ADC was bought by Tyco Electronics. TE was 
bought by Commscope. Commscope discontinued everything I found interesting with 
no replacements.


Some of the stuff is on eBay (even NIB), some not.

Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers, mounts, etc.?

Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com


IP Reputation Services

2022-04-04 Thread Mike Hammett
I'm checking in to see what people think of IP reputation services. 


I run an ISP (well, a couple of them) and we occasionally run into issues where 
customer IPs stop working with various services because of reputation issues. 
We run a fairly light-touch as to our customer's traffic, but when it creates 
support issues, one starts to look for better ways of skinning the cat. 


I've found a few of them out there, but they seem to be priced as if I'm a 
hosting company or an ESP, not an end-user-focused ISP. 




TIA 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



Re: ISP data collection from home routers

2022-03-25 Thread Mike Hammett
" Most end users (at least in the US) don't have a choice as many jurisdictions 
have sold a franchise (monopoly) to one provider. Either they sign or they 
don't get internet." 


That's not true. 





----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "PJ Capelli via NANOG"  
To: "Christian David"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 10:04:56 AM 
Subject: Re: ISP data collection from home routers 

Most end users (at least in the US) don't have a choice as many jurisdictions 
have sold a franchise (monopoly) to one provider. Either they sign or they 
don't get internet. 

Perhaps 5G will broaden the number of providers end users can choose from, and 
not be forced into this kind of contract. But why do you think any ISP would 
agree to not collect this information? 

pj capelli 
pjcape...@pm.me 

No one can build you the bridge on which you, and only you, must cross the 
river of life - Nietzsche 

Sent with ProtonMail secure email. 

--- Original Message --- 

On Thursday, March 24th, 2022 at 1:11 PM, Christian David 
 wrote: 

> I think that if the end user at signed contract agreed with this data 
> 

> collecting and also if there's a mechanism that the same user could deny 
> 

> the data collection, its look fine to me, there's compliant here in 
> 

> Brazil with LGPD (our variant from GDPR) and i think that users could 
> 

> see it as a "plus" cause the majority of ISPs don't have a service that 
> 

> inspect CPE WIFI's quality. 
> 

> Em 24/03/2022 14:00, Jay Hennigan escreveu: 
> 

> > On 3/24/22 06:26, Josh Luthman wrote: 
> > 

> > > I'm surprised we're having this discussion about an internet device 
> > > 

> > > that the customer is using to publicize all of their information on 
> > > 

> > > Facebook and Twitter. 
> > 

> > That's called informed consent. And Facebook and Twitter use TLS to 
> > 

> > protect the data in transit. 
> > 

> > > Consumers do not care enough about their privacy to the point where 
> > > 

> > > they are providing the information willingly. 
> > 

> > That's the point. The customer is providing information willingly when 
> > 

> > they post to social media. The ISP is collecting data without consent. 


Re: ISP data collection from home routers

2022-03-25 Thread Mike Hammett
" They can easily profile you and know when you're at home, and when you're 
gone." 


And? 



----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Giovane C. M. Moura via NANOG"  
To: "Josh Luthman" , "Lady Benjamin Cannon of 
Glencoe, ASCE"  
Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group"  
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 9:04:06 AM 
Subject: Re: ISP data collection from home routers 


> Who cares about the SSID??? 

I don't remember the data model, but I remember that they retrieved data 
very often, multiple times a minute. 

(some ppl in the list may have access to this data and know it very well) 

They can easily profile you and know when you're at home, and when 
you're gone. Some people may find this interesting... 

To have a really meaningful discuss on the privacy implications, we 
would need to see the data model, and the frequency that they pool the data. 

/giovane 



Re: ISP data collection from home routers

2022-03-25 Thread Mike Hammett
Sounds good to me. Solve the end-user problems, since they don't have the 
ability or care to do it themselves and doing so manually has too much latency 
and doesn't scale. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Giovane C. M. Moura via NANOG"  
To: "North American Network Operators' Group"  
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 5:43:58 AM 
Subject: ISP data collection from home routers 

Hello there, 

Several years ago, a friend of mine was working for a large telco and 
his job was to detect which clients had the worst networking experience. 

To do that, the telco had this hadoop cluster, where it collected _tons_ 
of data from home users routers, and his job was to use ML to tell the 
signal from the noise. 

I remember seeing a sample csv from this data, which contained 
_thousands_ of data fields (features) from each client. 

I was _shocked_ by the amount of (meta)data they are able to pull from 
home routers. These even included your wifi network name _and_ password! 
(it's been several years since then). 

And home users are _completely_ unaware of this. 

So my question to you folks is: 

- What's the policy regulations on this? I don't remember the features 
(thousands) but I'm pretty sure you could some profiling with it. 

- Is anyone aware of any public discussion on this? I have never seen it. 

Thanks, 

Giovane Moura 



Re: Cogent pulled out of Russia based on risk analysis

2022-03-25 Thread Mike Hammett
Timestamp? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE"  
To: "NANOG Group"  
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 7:37:22 AM 
Subject: Cogent pulled out of Russia based on risk analysis 


Confirmation from their CEO that Cogent shut down service in Russia due to 
increased use of the connections for cyberattacks, and because only $10m in rev 
came from Russia. 


Cogent had no equipment in Russia. 

Details: https://youtu.be/l_x2LQZOzF8 



Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 
6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
CEO 
l...@6by7.net 
"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the 
world.” 

FCC License KJ6FJJ 


Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149. 


Re: "Permanent" DST

2022-03-16 Thread Mike Hammett
"Farmers work on that kind of schedule" 


With GPS and now even RTK-assisted GPS, farmers don't care if it's noon or 
midnight, though obviously working near normal human awake times makes the 
search for labor easier. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Jason Baugher"  
To: "Eric Tykwinski" , "nanog@nanog.org list" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 4:18:46 PM 
Subject: RE: "Permanent" DST 



In the 70’s, you couldn’t check your smartphone to find out when a business was 
open, so there was a certain assumption that it would be open not only during 
“normal business hours”, but that it would be consistent throughout the year. 
We live in a completely different world today, where I’d venture to say that 
the majority of the population isn’t starting their day at dawn and ending it 
at dusk. Farmers work on that kind of schedule, but they don’t care what the 
clock says anyway. In today’s world, it’s pretty trivial for businesses to 
notify customers of schedule changes. 

So I agree, we should stick with UTC offset, or standard time, and let 
businesses handle changing their hours during the summer to earlier if they 
want to give their employees more “daytime”. 

Jason 





From: NANOG  On Behalf Of 
Eric Tykwinski 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 3:37 PM 
To: nanog@nanog.org list  
Subject: Re: "Permanent" DST 


What I don’t understand, is why change time, just change working hours. 

I’m all for giving up the time change, but the standard should probably still 
be UTC offset. 

If you work 9-5, change it to 10-6. Every company can post working hours on 
their website. 

Obviously for most of us, it’s a moot point. 



P.S. Anyone working at NIST or a similar org probably needs a raise for dealing 
with all the exceptions. 






On Mar 15, 2022, at 4:16 PM, Joly MacFie < j...@punkcast.com > wrote: 




WaPo has a been there done that item today. 



https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/
 



On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 3:11 PM Jay R. Ashworth < j...@baylink.com > wrote: 


In a unanimous vote today, the US Senate approved a bill which would 

1) Cancel DST permanently, and 
2) Move every square inch of US territory 15 degrees to the east. 

My opinion of this ought to be obvious from my rhetoric. Hopefully, it will 
fail, because it's likely to be the end of rational time worldwide, and even 
if you do log in UTC, it will still make your life difficult. 

I'm poleaxed; I can't even decide which grounds to scream about this on... 

Hopefully, the House or the White House will be more coherent in their 
decision on this engineering construct. 

Cheers, 
-- jra 

-- 
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com 
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 
Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII 
St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 






-- 






-- 
Joly MacFie +12185659365 

-- 
- 



Jason Baugher, Network Operations Manager 
405 Emminga Road | PO Box 217 | Golden, IL 62339-0217 
P (217) 696-4411 | F (217) 696-4811 | www.adams.net 
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The information contained in this email message is PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL, 
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Re: "Permanent" DST

2022-03-16 Thread Mike Hammett
Always on or always off, I don't care which, just pick one and give sufficient 
lead time for development. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Jay R. Ashworth"  
To: "nanog@nanog.org list"  
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 2:11:19 PM 
Subject: "Permanent" DST 

In a unanimous vote today, the US Senate approved a bill which would 

1) Cancel DST permanently, and 
2) Move every square inch of US territory 15 degrees to the east. 

My opinion of this ought to be obvious from my rhetoric. Hopefully, it will 
fail, because it's likely to be the end of rational time worldwide, and even 
if you do log in UTC, it will still make your life difficult. 

I'm poleaxed; I can't even decide which grounds to scream about this on... 

Hopefully, the House or the White House will be more coherent in their 
decision on this engineering construct. 

Cheers, 
-- jra 

-- 
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com 
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 
Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII 
St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 



Re: Upwork Suspending Operations in Russia and Belarus

2022-03-08 Thread Mike Hammett
How is this related to NANOG? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Callan Banner"  
To: "nanog@nanog.org list"  
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2022 3:22:49 PM 
Subject: Fwd: Upwork Suspending Operations in Russia and Belarus 


Nanog to suspend work in Belarus and Russia. How do you all feel about this? 
Senseless antagonization or correctly applied pressure? 



-- Forwarded message - 
From: Hayden Brown, Upwork President & CEO < upw...@t.upwork.com > 
Date: Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 12:51 PM 
Subject: Upwork Suspending Operations in Russia and Belarus 
To: < m...@callan.im > 




A message from our CEO 


Upwork


Dear Callan, 
As the world’s work marketplace, Upwork’s mission is to create economic 
opportunities so people have better lives. In our more than 20 years of doing 
business, we have worked hard to bring our marketplace to more people, with the 
belief that when people have the ability to innovate their careers and work, 
they can reach their full potential. 

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war against Ukraine has challenged our 
mission, values, and our operational ability to bring economic empowerment to 
those who seek it. Upwork has begun suspending operations in Russia and Belarus 
and will take full effect by May 1, 2022 . 

The first step will be shutting down Upwork’s support for new business 
generation in Russia and Belarus. Over the next few days, freelancers and 
clients in Russia and Belarus will no longer be able to sign up for new 
accounts, initiate new contracts, and be visible in search. 

We honor the relationships that exist between our customers and recognize the 
swift adjustments that they will need to make as they process this 
announcement. As such, existing contracts with talent and clients in the region 
will remain open, with final billing due by May 1, 2022 . 

We made this decision with the utmost consideration. From the beginning of the 
war, Upwork has been fervently working to support the safety, security, and 
well-being of our many team members in the region, as well as the business 
needs of our customers. We fully understand the significant impact this 
decision has on our Upwork community in Russia and Belarus, and we want these 
customers to know that if and when they are able to relocate to regions where 
we operate, we will be eager to support them in continuing their work on our 
platform. Additionally, should the geopolitical situation in Russia and Belarus 
change, we hope to be able to resume operations. 
We are heartbroken and horrified by the invasion of Ukraine. Upwork is 
concurrently working on measures – both immediate and rolling out soon – to 
further support Ukrainian freelancers and the Ukrainian community, including: 
•   A $1 million donation to Direct Relief International in support 
of the Ukrainian population. 
•   Product enhancements to make it easier for Ukrainian 
freelancers to preserve the careers they have worked so hard to establish, 
whether or not they are currently able to work. 
•   Programs to make it easier for clients to maintain their 
existing relationships with and provide financial assistance to talent in 
Ukraine. 
•   A $100,000 matching program for donations from our own team 
members to aid in humanitarian relief in Ukraine. 
While we continue to navigate these crucial decisions and actions, you can view 
communications via our Community Resources Page , which we are updating 
frequently with new developments and FAQs. 

Our hearts and support go out to all those affected by this senseless 
aggression against Ukraine. We hope that a path to peace is ahead for Ukraine, 
and that we are able to bring our mission back to Russia and Belarus in the 
future. 

Sincerely, 

Hayden Brown 
President & CEO 
Upwork  Notification settings | Privacy Policy | Contact Support 
655 Montgomery Street, Suite 490, Dpt 17022, San Francisco, CA 94111 
© 2022. Upwork ® Inc. 


-- 



Callan Banner 
Product Lead + Technical Advisor 
phone: 7744021029 
site: callan.im 
scheduling: callan.im/calendar 


Re: Conflicts and fiber cuts

2022-03-06 Thread Mike Hammett
Infrapedia seems like a logical place to aggregate such data. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Hank Nussbacher"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 1:09:45 AM 
Subject: Conflicts and fiber cuts 

As the discussion rages on NANOG, RIPE, CENTR and many other 
uber-technical forums, I would like to see whether we can focus on what 
we know best - networking. Perhaps a weekly report of fiber cuts 
throughout Europe (starting from Feb 15) and the RFO that the carrier 
provided. Of especial interest would be undersea/underocean cuts or 
strange outages that the carrier cannot explain. Perhaps we can then 
map where some nation/state is sabotaging fiber or tapping into such fiber. 


Anyone willing to run with this? 


-Hank 




Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

2022-03-01 Thread Mike Hammett
I think they were all that way, but I believe traffic is moving over to 14593. 


https://bgp.he.net/AS14593 


I've seen people post on their social media that their routing changed. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "ic"  
To: "Ong Beng Hui"  
Cc: "NANOG list"  
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 10:56:24 AM 
Subject: Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine 

Friends who have Starlink terminals in Europe (cz) go out through AS36492. 

> On 1 Mar 2022, at 05:48, Ong Beng Hui  wrote: 
> 
> Curious, will that be with starlink ASN then ? 
> 
> That throw geo detection via IP out right away. 




Re: Russian aligned ASNs?

2022-02-28 Thread Mike Hammett
So the providers most likely to have the skills and capabilities to automate 
abuse mitigation are the least likely to do anything about it, even when asked? 

 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "richey goldberg"  
To: "North American Network Operators Group"  
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 9:16:13 PM 
Subject: Re: Russian aligned ASNs? 



I don’t think that refusing Russian ASNs will do much to stop any kind of 
attacks. They are going to attack from botnets that are global so that’s not 
going to stop them. If anything blocking Russian ASNs will stop the flow of 
information going into Russia. I think we’re better off doing what we can to 
take down any machines that are participating in attacks if they live on 
machines that are downstream from you. One of the biggest issues I face in my 
daily tasks is getting other provers to take down machines. I’m talking to you 
Microsoft, Amazon, Digital Ocean and the likes….. 


-richey 


From: NANOG  on behalf of 
William Allen Simpson  
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 7:41 PM 
To: North American Network Operators Group  
Subject: Russian aligned ASNs? 

There have been reports of DDoS and new targeted malware attacks. 

There were questions in the media about cutting off the Internet. 

Apparently some Russian government sites have already cut themselves 
off, presumably to avoid counterattacks. 

Would it improve Internet health to refuse Russian ASN announcements? 

What is our community doing to assist Ukraine against these attacks? 


Re: Russian aligned ASNs?

2022-02-28 Thread Mike Hammett
*nods* Not only cleaning up the infections, but also implementing BCP 38 and 84 
to keep things you miss from leaking. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Seth David Schoen"  
To: "Joe Greco"  
Cc: "North American Network Operators Group"  
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 7:59:08 PM 
Subject: Re: Russian aligned ASNs? 

I also imagine (without data) that most DoS attacks continue to be 
performed by botnets, using other people's connections, rather than 
directly by their ultimate perpetrators. So, the most effective and 
meaningful mitigation would be trying to clean up bots, and prevent 
ongoing bot infections, rather than cutting off suspected or actual 
perpetrators. 

I realize that's much easier said than done! 



Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

2022-02-19 Thread Mike Hammett
*nods* I agree. 

Usually, it's too many spineless people that won't stand up to someone that 
couldn't make friends in high school. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Dorn Hetzel"  
To: sro...@ronan-online.com 
Cc: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2022 10:16:06 AM 
Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections 


Yeah, the evils of HOAs go *way* beyond shitty internet 


On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 11:15 AM < sro...@ronan-online.com > wrote: 



Sounds like you’ve never lived in an HOA. 




On Feb 19, 2022, at 11:09 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 







"A single customer who has no sway over an entire HOA" 


If you can't sway the whole HOA, then the problem must not be that bad. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



From: "Cory Sell via NANOG" < nanog@nanog.org > 
To: "Mike Lyon" < mike.l...@gmail.com > 
Cc: "NANOG" < nanog@nanog.org > 
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:16:37 PM 
Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections 

See this is my point. People always dismiss these issues and say they could 
easily get service. Then, when someone comes in with an actual request for said 
service, the answer we get is about structured deals with HOA/property 
management. What about for a single customer? A single customer who has no sway 
over an entire HOA, a single customer who is told to go “pound sand” by the 
property manager. 


If you can’t give a single figure or even rough numbers for a single customer, 
I’d say avoid dismissing the problem. If you can provide that now, I’d be very 
curious to still see them. :) 

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 7:10 PM, Mike Lyon < mike.l...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Depends on many factors… 


If the whole HOA wanted service, then a licensed link could possibly be put in 
delivering a high capacity circuit delivering about 100 Mbps to the subscriber. 
Price to the customer would vary depending on how the deal is structured with 
the HOA/property management company. 


Could also look into getting some fiber delivered and feed it from that. 


-Mike 



On Feb 16, 2022, at 17:02, Cory Sell < corys...@protonmail.com > wrote: 






Out of pure curiosity, let’s assume they COULD put an antenna on the roof… 


What is the service? Bandwidth, latency expectation, cost? 


Note that in almost every condominium or apartment complex I have heard of, 
they do NOT allow roof builds. This is why satellite TV in those areas require 
people to put an antenna on their patio, even if it’s half-blocked. 


On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 6:51 PM, Mike Lyon < mike.l...@gmail.com > wrote: 


If they allow antennas on the roof, we can service them :) 


Your house, on the other hand, we already lucked out on that one! 


-Mike Lyon 
Ridge Wireless 



On Feb 16, 2022, at 16:48, Matthew Petach < mpet...@netflight.com > wrote: 












On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the 
generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose". 






You want a specific example? 


Friend of mine asked me to help them get better Internet connectivity a few 
weeks ago. 


They live here: 
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Meridian+Woods+Condos/@37.3200394,-121.9792261,17.47z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x808fca909a8f5605:0x399cdd468d99300c!8m2!3d37.3190694!4d-121.9818295
 



Just off of I-280 in the heart of San Jose. 


I dug and dug, and called different companies. 
The only service they can get there is the 768K DSL service they already have 
with AT 


Go ahead. Try it for yourself. 


See what service you can order to those condos. 


Heart of Silicon Valley. 


Worse connectivity than many rural areas. :( 


Matt 



























Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

2022-02-19 Thread Mike Hammett
"A single customer who has no sway over an entire HOA" 


If you can't sway the whole HOA, then the problem must not be that bad. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Cory Sell via NANOG"  
To: "Mike Lyon"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:16:37 PM 
Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections 

See this is my point. People always dismiss these issues and say they could 
easily get service. Then, when someone comes in with an actual request for said 
service, the answer we get is about structured deals with HOA/property 
management. What about for a single customer? A single customer who has no sway 
over an entire HOA, a single customer who is told to go “pound sand” by the 
property manager. 


If you can’t give a single figure or even rough numbers for a single customer, 
I’d say avoid dismissing the problem. If you can provide that now, I’d be very 
curious to still see them. :) 

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 7:10 PM, Mike Lyon < mike.l...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Depends on many factors… 


If the whole HOA wanted service, then a licensed link could possibly be put in 
delivering a high capacity circuit delivering about 100 Mbps to the subscriber. 
Price to the customer would vary depending on how the deal is structured with 
the HOA/property management company. 


Could also look into getting some fiber delivered and feed it from that. 


-Mike 



On Feb 16, 2022, at 17:02, Cory Sell  wrote: 






Out of pure curiosity, let’s assume they COULD put an antenna on the roof… 


What is the service? Bandwidth, latency expectation, cost? 


Note that in almost every condominium or apartment complex I have heard of, 
they do NOT allow roof builds. This is why satellite TV in those areas require 
people to put an antenna on their patio, even if it’s half-blocked. 


On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 6:51 PM, Mike Lyon < mike.l...@gmail.com > wrote: 


If they allow antennas on the roof, we can service them :) 


Your house, on the other hand, we already lucked out on that one! 


-Mike Lyon 
Ridge Wireless 



On Feb 16, 2022, at 16:48, Matthew Petach  wrote: 












On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the 
generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose". 






You want a specific example? 


Friend of mine asked me to help them get better Internet connectivity a few 
weeks ago. 


They live here: 
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Meridian+Woods+Condos/@37.3200394,-121.9792261,17.47z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x808fca909a8f5605:0x399cdd468d99300c!8m2!3d37.3190694!4d-121.9818295
 



Just off of I-280 in the heart of San Jose. 


I dug and dug, and called different companies. 
The only service they can get there is the 768K DSL service they already have 
with AT 


Go ahead. Try it for yourself. 


See what service you can order to those condos. 


Heart of Silicon Valley. 


Worse connectivity than many rural areas. :( 


Matt 






















Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-13 Thread Mike Hammett
What's the most resource efficient way to deploy a ping destination? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 11:56:44 AM 
Subject: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 


Yes, pinging public DNS servers is bad. 


Googling didn't help me find anything. 


Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying you 
shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping destinations? 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




Re: VPN recommendations?

2022-02-11 Thread Mike Hammett
Mikrotik with RouterOS v7 with WireGuard or ZeroTier were the first things I 
thought of, but it might be a a bit premature for a production environment. In 
a year, I'd have no problem recommending that. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Ander Punnar"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2022 2:04:57 PM 
Subject: Re: VPN recommendations? 

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:55:40 -0800, William Herrin wrote: 
> My understanding is that Wireguard is software available for general 
> purpose operating systems. I specifically need a set of hardware 
> network appliances. 

MikroTik (hardware) RouterOS (software) version 7 has WireGuard: 

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WireGuard 



Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-11 Thread Mike Hammett
I think we need to deliniate the conversation for human-memorable, on-demand 
needs vs. always-on configured needs. 




A system always checking to see if "Internet" is up is different than "I think 
something is wrong, let me check". 


For the always-on systems, how extensive do you want to get? What is your 
action if it's up? What is your action if it's down? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 11:56:44 AM 
Subject: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 


Yes, pinging public DNS servers is bad. 


Googling didn't help me find anything. 


Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying you 
shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping destinations? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-11 Thread Mike Hammett
The device that caused this whole conversation has failover functionality. Both 
interfaces ping an FQDN (that resolves to 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1, with the device 
only latching on to one of those). If any of those meet the failure threshold, 
that interface is taken out of the traffic flow. 




So because someone else built a device (without a meaningful configuration to 
set otherwise), 8.8.8.8 went down for ICMP, and thus Internet ports began 
flapping, despite the Internet as a whole working just fine. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Tom Beecher"  
To: "Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe"  
Cc: "NANOG Operators' Group"  
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2022 12:27:03 PM 
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 




Seems way easier than literally everything else being proposed to me, am I 
missing something? 





I guess it depends on what the actual problem trying to be solved is. 


If I understand it correctly, the OG issue was someone (who was not Google) 
building some monitoring around the assumption of the idea that ICMP 
echo-request/reply to 8.8.8.8 would always be available. Google decided to make 
a change so that assumption was now false. 

The actual problem here has nothing to do with how Google handles (or doesn't 
handle) ICMP towards their servers. The issue is that people have made poor 
assumptions about how they structured monitoring, and learned some lessons 
about that. Suggesting that Party B should do something because Party A made 
poor decisions is questionable, even if it is 75% of what we do in this world. 







On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 12:52 PM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe < 
l...@6by7.net > wrote: 




Seems way easier than literally everything else being proposed to me, am I 
missing something? 


-LB 

Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 
6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
CEO 
b...@6by7.net 
"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the 
world.” 
ANNOUNCING: 6x7 GLOBAL MARITIME 

FCC License KJ6FJJ 






On Feb 9, 2022, at 12:15 PM, Tom Beecher < beec...@beecher.cc > wrote: 




Side note, am I missing something obvious where I can’t just have hardware 
routers strip ICMP, pipe it separately, put 500 VMs behind 4 vLBs and let the 
world ping the brains out of it? 





Seems like a lot of overhead for zero benefit. 


On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 2:11 PM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe < l...@6by7.net 
> wrote: 




ok that’s amazing. 


RFC1149 amazing. 




Side note, am I missing something obvious where I can’t just have hardware 
routers strip ICMP, pipe it separately, put 500 VMs behind 4 vLBs and let the 
world ping the brains out of it? 


Who owns 69.69.69.69 - collab? 


How naff is this? 



-LB 

Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE 
6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
CEO 
b...@6by7.net 
"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the 
world.” 
ANNOUNCING: 6x7 GLOBAL MARITIME 

FCC License KJ6FJJ 







On Feb 9, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Jay Hennigan < j...@west.net > wrote: 


On 2/8/22 23:42, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: 



The only problem is the less friendly IP address (although this will 
be less and less a problem with IPv6, since 2001:4860:4860:: is 
not really friendly). 



Fun fact: Someone at Sprint had the same hobby as I did in the early 1970s. 
Their website resolves to 2600:: which I think is rather friendly. :-) 

Please don't use it for an IPv6 ping target, thanks. 

-- 
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net 
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV 













Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-10 Thread Mike Hammett
No doubt there would be a very long tail, but...

1) Create alternative.
2) Get Google, Cloudflare, PCH, etc. to say that per whatever new standard, 
this is the new way to do this, leave my stuff alone.
3) Lots of peer pressure.
4) ???
5) Profit



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com

- Original Message -
From: Mark Delany 
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2022 17:21:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

On 09Feb22, Joe Greco allegedly wrote:

> So what people really want is to be able to "ping internet" and so far
> the easiest thing people have been able to find is "ping 8.8.8.8" or
> some other easily remembered thing.

Yes, I think "ping internet" is the most accurate description thus far. Or 
perhaps "reach
internet".

> Does this mean that perhaps we should seriously consider having some
> TLD being named "internet"

Meaning you need to have a functioning DNS resolver first? I'm sure you see the 
problem
with that clouding the results of a diagnostic test.

> service providers register appropriate upstream targets for their 
> customers, and then maybe also allow for some form of registration such
> that if I wanted to provide a remote ping target for AS14536, I could
> somehow register "as14536.internet" or "solnet.internet"?

Possibly. You'd want to be crystal clear on the use cases. As a starting point, 
maybe:

1. Do packets leave my network?
2. Do packets leave my ISP's network?
3. Mainly for IOT - is the internet reachable?

Because of 2 and 3. I don't think creative solutions such as ISPs any-casting 
some
memorable IP or name will do the trick. And because of 1. anything relying on 
DNS
resolution is probably a non-starter. Much as I like "ping ping.ripe.net" it 
alone is too
intertwined with DNS resolution to be a reliable alternative.


> Fundamentally, this is a valid issue.

Yup. There are far more home-gamers and tiny network admins (the networks are 
tiny, not
the admins) who just want to run a reachability test or add a command to a 
cheap network
monitor cron job. Those on this list who can - or should - do something more 
sophisticated
are numerically in the minority of people who care about reachability and are 
not really
the target audience for a better "ping 8.8.8.8".

> and we'll end up needing a special non-ping client and some trainwreck of 
> names and
> other hard-to-grok

I'm not sure the two are fundamentally intertwined tho it could easily be an 
unintended
consequence. However, being constrained to creating a new ping target does 
severely limit
the choices. And including ipv6 just makes that more complicated.

The other matter is that the alternative probably has to present a compelling 
case to
cause change in behavior. I can see an industry standard ping target being of 
possible use
to tests built into devices. But again it'd have to be compelling for most 
manufacturers
to even notice.

But for humans, I'd be surprised if you can create a compelling alternative ping
target. For them, I'd be going down the path of a "ping-internet" command which 
answers
use-cases 1. & 2. while carefully avoiding the second-system syndrome - he says 
with a
laugh.


Mark.



Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-10 Thread Mike Hammett
Except that the very reason This Thread started was because 8. 8. 8. 8 was not 
responding to pings and cause issues with many facturar hard-coded destinations.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com

- Original Message -
From: Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe 
To: Christopher Morrow 
Cc: NANOG Operators' Group 
Sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2022 14:29:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

Exactly.  8.8.8.8 isn’t going down anytime soon, also is geographically 
redundant; even if half the internet is dead, it’ll still be there.It’s 
somewhat hard to duplicate that cheap.

What else is like that and easy to remember and isn’t 1.1.1.1 ?

-LB

Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
CEO 
b...@6by7.net
"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the 
world.”
ANNOUNCING: 6x7 GLOBAL MARITIME <https://alexmhoulton.wixsite.com/6x7networks>

FCC License KJ6FJJ




> On Feb 9, 2022, at 12:25 PM, Christopher Morrow  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 2:10 PM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe  <mailto:l...@6by7.net>> wrote:
> ok that’s amazing.
> 
> RFC1149 amazing.
> 
> 
> Side note, am I missing something obvious where I can’t just have hardware 
> routers strip ICMP, pipe it separately, put 500 VMs behind 4 vLBs and let the 
> world ping the brains out of it?
> 
> 
> I suspect that half the reason: "ping 8.8.8.8" (do not do this!) is used is: 
> "easy to remember 8.8.8.8"
> and half is: "Well, that IP is well connected enough that you are reasonably 
> assured that: 'enough of the internet is up '" if it replies.
> 
> (maybe it's 75/25? or 80/20 not 5050... but you get my point) 




Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-08 Thread Mike Hammett
What irked me today was an equipment manufacturer. I found out because Google 
had some issues handling ICMP to their DNS resolvers today and some of my 
devices started spazzing out. 


There's no reason this manufacturer doesn't just setup a variety their own 
servers to handle this, other than being lazy. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Mark Delany"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 5:13:30 PM 
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 

On 08Feb22, Mike Hammett allegedly wrote: 

> Some people need a clue by four and I'm looking to build my collection of 
> them. 

> "Google services, including Google Public DNS, are not designed as ICMP 
> network testing services" 

Hard to disagree with "their network, their rules", but we're talking about an 
entrenched, 
pervasive, Internet-wide behaviorial issue. 

My guess is that making ping/ICMP less reliable to the extent that it becomes 
unusable 
wont change fundamental behavior. Rather, it'll make said "pingers" reach for 
another tool 
that does more or less the same thing with more or less as little extra effort 
as possible 
on their part. 

And what might such an alternate tool do? My guess is one which SYN/ACKs 
various popular 
TCP ports (say 22, 25, 80, 443) and maybe sends a well-formed UDP packet to a 
few popular 
DNS ports (say 53 and 119). Let's call this command "nmap -sn" with a few 
tweaks, shall 
we? 

After all, it's no big deal to the pinger if their reachability command now 
exchanges 
10-12 packets with resource intensive destination ports instead of a couple of 
packets to 
lightweight destinations. I'll bet most pingers will neither know nor care, 
especially if 
their next-gen ping works more consistently than the old one. 

So. Question. Will making ping/ICMP mostly useless for home-gamers and lazy 
network admins 
change internet behaviour for the better? Or will it have unintended 
consequences such as 
an evolutionary adaptation by the tools resulting in yet more unwanted traffic 
which is 
even harder to eliminate? 


Mark. 



Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-08 Thread Mike Hammett
Right, someone could do that. 


I was more here to find ammunition to show someone that they were doing 
something wrong than to build anything myself. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Christopher Morrow"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "Tom Beecher" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 4:35:16 PM 
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 







On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 4:05 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Some people need a clue by four and I'm looking to build my collection of them. 




Someone on Outages was nice enough to send this about someone else's thread: 
https://peering.google.com/#/learn-more/faq 


"Google services, including Google Public DNS, are not designed as ICMP network 
testing services" 






you know what you COULD do though... probe it with DNS requests, and then you 
know, test the service being offered, and still know that 'the internet is not 
on fire'. 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



From: "Tom Beecher" < beec...@beecher.cc > 
To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > 
Cc: "NANOG" < nanog@nanog.org > 
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 3:01:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 




Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying you 
shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping destinations? 




I'm not sure that an ' authoritative resource ' is really needed. It should be 
generally understood at this point in the internet's life that networks will 
block / restrict some or all ICMP traffic as they need to. 


On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 12:58 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Yes, pinging public DNS servers is bad. 


Googling didn't help me find anything. 


Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying you 
shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping destinations? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 









Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-08 Thread Mike Hammett
Some people need a clue by four and I'm looking to build my collection of them. 




Someone on Outages was nice enough to send this about someone else's thread: 
https://peering.google.com/#/learn-more/faq 


"Google services, including Google Public DNS, are not designed as ICMP network 
testing services" 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Tom Beecher"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 3:01:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 




Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying you 
shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping destinations? 




I'm not sure that an ' authoritative resource ' is really needed. It should be 
generally understood at this point in the internet's life that networks will 
block / restrict some or all ICMP traffic as they need to. 


On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 12:58 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Yes, pinging public DNS servers is bad. 


Googling didn't help me find anything. 


Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying you 
shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping destinations? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-08 Thread Mike Hammett
I'm not looking to do the pinging myself. I have my own destinations I use. I 
also use the RIPE system on occasion. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Stephane Bortzmeyer"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 12:46:54 PM 
Subject: Re: Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging 

On Tue, Feb 08, 2022 at 11:56:44AM -0600, 
Mike Hammett  wrote 
a message of 140 lines which said: 

> Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying 
> you shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping 
> destinations? 

Why not using RIPE Anchors, which are made to be pinged (reasonably)? 



Authoritative Resources for Public DNS Pinging

2022-02-08 Thread Mike Hammett
Yes, pinging public DNS servers is bad. 


Googling didn't help me find anything. 


Are there any authoritative resources from said organizations saying you 
shouldn't use their servers for your persistent ping destinations? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



Re: Simplified BGP peering solution

2022-02-07 Thread Mike Hammett
I think you need a bit more definition. 


ISPs as in full-route providers? 
Any external BGP peer? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Saul"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 8:02:12 PM 
Subject: Simplified BGP peering solution 



How many active ISPs are most of the people on this list dealing with? 


1-2 - I'm an end user just trying to load balance 
3-5 - I'm aggressively looking for the best paths for my "customer" traffic 
6-20 - I have a meet-me POP room or a specific business need for so many 
connections 
21+ - I'm an ISP 


Thank you! 





Re: Amazon peering revisited

2022-02-04 Thread Mike Hammett
"For a company like Amazon..." 


True, but also, they're at a size where staffing and operating peering 
operations generously has a negligible impact on the fiscal situation of the 
company (or even department). 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Kevin Burke"  
To: "Lincoln Dale" , "Kelly Littlepage" 
 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 3:25:53 PM 
Subject: RE: Amazon peering revisited 



Have gotten into the habit of making annual peering requests to Amazon asking 
turn up a session on a shared IXP peering. Once was able to get a peering 
session turned up, no traffic was ever shifted onto it before we moved out of 
that carrier hotel a year or so later. The amazon peering email box does have 
humans surfing it. 

Over the years a number of network operators have mentioned getting little 
response from Amazon about peering requests. 

For a company like Amazon they have little reason to do peering with small 
scale operators. They already peer with the tier 1’s and assume I will do what 
I need to balance my bits. The fancy algorithms they use to balance traffic 
around does allow them to operate a decent network with fewer staff and less 
links to the small ISPs. Just a network operator here, trying to get my bytes 
across the wire. 

Enjoy your weekend! 


Kevin Burke 
802-540-0979 
Burlington Telecom 
200 Church St, Burlington, VT 



From: NANOG  On Behalf Of 
Lincoln Dale 
Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:20 PM 
To: Kelly Littlepage  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: Amazon peering revisited 


WARNING!! This message originated from an External Source . Please use proper 
judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to 
this email. 



On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 8:22 AM Kelly Littlepage via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > 
wrote: 




Hi all, a nanog thread started on November 23, 2018 discussed the challenges of 
getting Amazon peering sessions turned up. Has anyone had luck since/does 
anyone have a contact they could refer me to — off-list or otherwise? The 
process of getting PNI in place with other CSPs was straightforward, but I 
haven't heard back from AWS after a month and several follow-ups. Our customers 
would really benefit from us getting this sorted. 





There are many folks that here that are in AWS. Assuming you have followed what 
is in https://aws.amazon.com/peering/ (and 
https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/ ) then send me details privately about 
what/when/who and I'll reach out internally to the relevant folks. 




Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

2022-01-28 Thread Mike Hammett
IIRC, *EVERYTHING* is in AWS, while their Open Connect deployments actually do 
the heavy lifting for the video content. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Mark Tinka"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 7:38:12 AM 
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile? 



On 1/28/22 15:22, Josh Baird wrote: 

> I think Netflix's usage of AWS is being understated here. 

My understanding is that the user profiles and library listings are held 
with AWS, but that the actual video is on their OCA's. 

I could be wrong... 

Mark. 



Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

2022-01-28 Thread Mike Hammett
I also think the complexities, requirements, tolerances, etc. of an EPC are 
also being understated in the thread. The difference being is that I am aware 
(and stated as such) that I'm understating Netflix's usage. The other side 
doesn't know how particular EPCs can be. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Baird"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "Michael Thomas" , "nanog group"  
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 7:22:50 AM 
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile? 


I think Netflix's usage of AWS is being understated here. 


On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 6:29 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




There's a big difference between a website (admittedly a complex one) and a 
mobile core. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



From: "Michael Thomas" < m...@mtcc.com > 
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 3:54:57 PM 
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile? 


On 1/26/22 11:11 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: 
> 
> 
> On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when 
>> the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to 
>> anticipate because it's all black box. 
>> 
>> Saving 12 months of opex $ sounds great, except when you lose 18 
>> months of opex $ in 2 days completely outside of your ability to 
>> control. 
> 
> I don't disagree. 
> 
> What this does, though, is democratize access into the industry. For a 
> simple business model that is serving a small community with a handful 
> of eyeballs, not trying to grow forever but put food on the table, 
> it's somewhere to start. 
> 
Didn't Netflix for the longest time run on AWS? I imagine if I were 
talking to a VC these days and said the first thing I was going to do is 
rack up a bunch of servers, I'd get laughed at. Cloud makes sense until 
it doesn't make sense. Just like everything else. 

Mike 







Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

2022-01-28 Thread Mike Hammett
There's a big difference between a website (admittedly a complex one) and a 
mobile core. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 3:54:57 PM 
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile? 


On 1/26/22 11:11 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: 
> 
> 
> On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when 
>> the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to 
>> anticipate because it's all black box. 
>> 
>> Saving 12 months of opex $ sounds great, except when you lose 18 
>> months of opex $ in 2 days completely outside of your ability to 
>> control. 
> 
> I don't disagree. 
> 
> What this does, though, is democratize access into the industry. For a 
> simple business model that is serving a small community with a handful 
> of eyeballs, not trying to grow forever but put food on the table, 
> it's somewhere to start. 
> 
Didn't Netflix for the longest time run on AWS? I imagine if I were 
talking to a VC these days and said the first thing I was going to do is 
rack up a bunch of servers, I'd get laughed at. Cloud makes sense until 
it doesn't make sense. Just like everything else. 

Mike 




Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

2022-01-27 Thread Mike Hammett
Cloud-hosted infrastructure just doesn't work reliably. Too many points of 
failure along the way. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Mark Tinka"  
To: "Tom Beecher"  
Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group"  
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 1:11:56 AM 
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile? 



On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote: 

> 
> Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when 
> the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to 
> anticipate because it's all black box. 
> 
> Saving 12 months of opex $ sounds great, except when you lose 18 
> months of opex $ in 2 days completely outside of your ability to control. 

I don't disagree. 

What this does, though, is democratize access into the industry. For a 
simple business model that is serving a small community with a handful 
of eyeballs, not trying to grow forever but put food on the table, it's 
somewhere to start. 

Mark. 



Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

2022-01-26 Thread Mike Hammett
Like most other things cloud, the value is going to be much harder to find than 
the hype. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:52:20 PM 
Subject: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile? 


There was an article in the Economist (sorry if it's paywalled) about 
Dish entering the mobile market using an AWS backend. I don't think that 
AWS brings much more than compute for the most part so I don't really 
get why this would be a huge win. A win maybe, but a huge win? I can 
certainly see that not having tons of legacy and accreted inertia is big 
win, but that's true of any disruptor. In the end they still need base 
stations, spectrum, backhaul and all of that to run their network, right? 

Am I missing something, or is this mainly hype? 

Mike 

https://www.economist.com/business/will-the-cloud-business-eat-the-5g-telecoms-industry/21806999
 




Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flow collection and analysis

2022-01-26 Thread Mike Hammett
Why is it even necessary for such a function? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Laura Smith via NANOG"  
To: "nanog@nanog.org list"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 7:17:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flow collection and analysis 

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ 

On Wednesday, January 26th, 2022 at 11:08, Eric Kuhnke  
wrote: 

> elastiflow is extremely easy to run on an httpd listening only on localhost 
> and proxy behind a simple nginx TLS1.2/1.3 only configuration listening on 
> port 443. 
> 

I don't know about anyone else here, but frankly in 2022 TLS support should be 
a first class citizen. 

If I have to mess around with running something else as a proxy in front of it 
then that's the end of my software evaluation. 

Crypto is no longer "nice to have" option these days. 



Re: Telia is now Arelion

2022-01-21 Thread Mike Hammett
I do want to point out that it isn't a mindless name change like Xfinity, 
Spectrum, or Lumen. It's because the company actually split off from Telia 
proper and thus, needed a new name. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Justin Krejci"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:59:16 AM 
Subject: Telia is now Arelion 



https://www.arelion.com/ 



 

Since all other work is now complete in the world I should have plenty of time 
to update documentation, billing, labels, port names, route-maps, contact email 
addresses, etc. 



After watching their marketing video I learned the pronunciation of Arelion is 
not R-Lion but is actually A-Ray-Lee-On but I may continue thinking of it as 
R-Lion because it is shorter and it just sounds cooler in my head. 


Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

2022-01-18 Thread Mike Hammett
What I've seen so far from the airline industry is a joke. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Mel Beckman"  
To: sro...@ronan-online.com 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 4:06:46 PM 
Subject: Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha? 

Shane, 


Incorrect. Owning spectrum also includes the right to interference-free 
operation. And you imply that the FAA and airline industry has done nothing, 
when in reality it’s the FCC who has done nothing. the FAA sponsored extensive 
engineering tests that demonstrate the interference is a concern, and they 
notified all the parties well in advance. The fCC et al chose to do no research 
of their own, and are basing all their assumptions on operation in other 
countries, which even you must admit can’t really be congruent with the US. 


-mel via cell 



On Jan 18, 2022, at 2:01 PM, sro...@ronan-online.com wrote: 






The thing is aviation DOESN’T own this spectrum, they just assumed it would 
always be unused. And they failed to mention it would be a problem during the 
last 5 years of discussion regarding the use of this spectrum. 


Shane 




On Jan 18, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Mel Beckman  wrote: 







Michael, 


Here’s a recent PCmag editorial on the subject, and it seems like many people 
want to put Internet speed above airline safety: 


https://www.pcmag.com/news/faa-goes-in-hard-to-kill-mid-band-5g 


This issue definitely impacts network operations for 5G providers, so makes 
sense to discuss here. 


Here’s a comment from a friend of mine who has been both a network engineer and 
a pilot for United Airlines, posted on the article linked above: 


“As a pilot, I can tell you that landing in instrument conditions is by far the 
most critical flight regime possible, during which the radar altimeter reports 
are a matter of life and death. There is no alternative technology, such as 
GPS, with the required accuracy and reliability, to provide approach guidance 
down to the runway in zero-zero weather, which is what the radar altimeter 
does. 


The collective tech industry needs to admit that it made a huge blunder when it 
urged the FCC’s clueless Ajit Pai to “blow off” the clearly demonstrated FAA 
spectrum conflict. Sorry, passengers, but if you look out your window, you’ll 
see that aviation owns this spectrum and is entitled to interference-free 
operation. Replacing all radar altimeters isn’t going to happen in time for 5G 
anyway — it took more than ten years just to deploy anti-collision technology. 
So do what you should have done from the beginning: follow the FCC rules of 
non-interference to existing users, who have clear priority in this case.” 


I tend to agree with him, and it looks like the 5G providers and FAA agreed 
last week to put some buffer safety zones around runway approaches at 50 major 
airports: 


https://www.cnet.com/news/faa-lists-50-airports-getting-temporary-buffer-zones-blocking-new-5g-signals/
 



-mel 



On Jan 18, 2022, at 12:33 PM, Michael Thomas  wrote: 







I really don't know anything about it. It seems really late to be having this 
fight now, right? 

Mike 










Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

2022-01-18 Thread Mike Hammett
Fearmongering. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:29:53 PM 
Subject: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha? 


I really don't know anything about it. It seems really late to be having 
this fight now, right? 

Mike 




Re: Long hops on international paths

2022-01-18 Thread Mike Hammett
Chicago is a fairly major POP that *MAY* very well have waves right to other 
major POPs. 


Can you retest from a *not* major POP? They're not likely to have a wave from 
Indy, St. Louis, Des Moines, etc. going to Paris, Singapore, Helsinki, 
Budapest, etc. Then you could *maybe* determine if it's a wave or MPLS. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "PAUL R BARFORD"  
To: "Lukas Tribus"  
Cc: "Esteban Carisimo" , nanog@nanog.org, 
"Fabian E. Bustamante"  
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 11:17:18 PM 
Subject: Re: Long hops on international paths 


Please find the examples for the case of Telia below. 



FROM jfk-us (jfk-us.team-probing.c008820.20201002.warts.gz) 

traceroute from 216.66.30.102 (Ark probe hosted in New York City, NY, US. No AS 
info found) to 223.114.235.32 (MAXMIXD: Turpan, CN) 
1 216.66.30.101 0.365 ms 
2 62.115.49.173 3.182 ms 
3 * 
4 62.115.137.59 17.453 ms [x] (chi-b23-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> 
Chicago, IL, US) 
5 62.115.117.48 59.921 ms [x] (sea-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net., RIPE-IPMAP -> 
Seattle, WA, US) 
6 62.115.171.221 69.993 ms 
7 223.120.6.53 69.378 ms 
8 223.120.12.34 226.225 ms 
9 221.183.55.110 237.475 ms 
10 221.183.25.201 238.697 ms 
11 221.176.16.213 242.296 ms 
12 221.183.36.62 352.695 ms 
13 221.183.39.2 300.166 ms 
14 117.191.8.118 316.270 ms 
15 * 
16 * 
17 * 
18 * 
19 * 


FROM ord-us (ord-us.team-probing.c008820.20201002.warts.gz) 

traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul 
University-AS20120) to 109.25.215.237 (237.215.25.109.rev.sfr.net., MAXMIXD: La 
Crau, FR) 
1 140.192.218.129 0.795 ms 
2 140.192.9.124 0.603 ms 
3 64.124.44.158 1.099 ms 
4 64.125.31.172 3.047 ms 
5 * 
6 64.125.15.65 1.895 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., 
CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 
7 62.115.118.59 99.242 ms [x] (prs-b3-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> 
Paris, FR) 
8 62.115.154.23 105.214 ms 
9 77.136.10.6 119.021 ms 
10 77.136.10.6 118.830 ms 
11 80.118.89.202 118.690 ms 
12 80.118.89.234 118.986 ms 
13 109.24.108.66 119.159 ms 
14 109.25.215.237 126.085 ms 


traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul 
University-AS20120) to 84.249.89.93 (dsl-tkubng12-54f959-93.dhcp.inet.fi., 
MAXMIXD: Turku, FI) 
1 140.192.218.129 0.243 ms 
2 140.192.9.124 0.326 ms 
3 64.124.44.158 0.600 ms 
4 * 
5 * 
6 64.125.15.65 1.792 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., 
CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 
7 62.115.123.27 121.199 ms [x] (hls-b4-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> 
Helsinki, FI) 
8 * 
9 141.208.193.190 127.723 ms 
10 84.249.89.93 139.051 ms 


traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US) to 
193.28.231.50 (MAXMIXD: None, HU) 
1 140.192.218.129 0.240 ms 
2 140.192.9.124 0.333 ms 
3 64.124.44.158 0.648 ms 
4 * 
5 64.125.25.75 0.752 ms 
6 64.125.15.65 1.877 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., 
CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 
7 62.115.119.39 123.952 ms [x] (bpt-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net., **I suspect it is 
in Budapest, HU**) 
8 62.115.39.122 117.171 ms 
9 88.151.96.148 117.202 ms 
10 88.151.96.213 124.787 ms 
11 * 
12 * 
13 * 
14 * 
15 * 


traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul 
University-AS20120) to 152.195.4.11 (MAXMIXD: Los Angeles, CA, US) 
1 140.192.218.129 0.224 ms 
2 140.192.9.124 0.545 ms 
3 64.124.44.158 0.640 ms 
4 * 
5 * 
6 64.125.15.65 1.786 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., 
CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 
7 62.115.118.247 54.597 ms [x] (las-b22-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> 
Los Angeles, CA, US) 
8 62.115.11.129 55.979 ms 
9 * 
10 * 
11 * 
12 * 
13 * 


traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul 
University-AS20120) to 47.31.143.217 (MAXMIXD: Delhi, IN) 
1 140.192.218.129 2.277 ms 
2 140.192.9.124 0.449 ms 
3 64.124.44.158 0.576 ms 
4 * 
5 * 
6 64.125.15.65 1.814 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., 
CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 
7 62.115.114.41 210.056 ms [x] (snge-b5-link.ip.twelve99.net.,) 
8 62.115.177.11 200.840 ms 
9 103.198.140.16 233.636 ms 
10 103.198.140.16 232.871 ms 
11 103.198.140.171 232.648 ms 
12 * 
13 * 
14 * 
15 * 
16 * 



From: Lukas Tribus  
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 1:52 PM 
To: PAUL R BARFORD  
Cc: Nick Hilliard ; nanog@nanog.org ; Esteban 
Carisimo ; Fabian E. Bustamante 
 
Subject: Re: Long hops on international paths 


On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 at 20:00, PAUL R BARFORD  wrote: 
> What we're curious about is why we're seeing a concentration of hops at a 
> small number of routers that appear on international paths. 

I suggest you share a few actual examples (IP addresses, traceroutes). 

I don't think discussing your conclusion based on data we don't have 
makes sense. 


Lukas 



Re: Open source mapping of US high voltage electrical grid

2022-01-16 Thread Mike Hammett
I do think the data in OpenStreetMap is undervalued. Lots of stuff there and 
there are a few projects that exist to better visualize that data. 
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ is another using Open Street Map data. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
To: "nanog@nanog.org list"  
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 8:45:53 PM 
Subject: Open source mapping of US high voltage electrical grid 



Possibly of interest for network operators who have inter-city circuits, where 
the underlying carrier is something on OPGW fiber in high voltage lines. 



These people seem to be making an effort at mapping out high voltage lines, 
hydroelectric dams, substations, etc. 


https://openinframap.org 




Re: home router battery backup

2022-01-12 Thread Mike Hammett
Armchair quarterbacking here: 


Increasing 
--- 
Demand 
Age of infrastructure 
Capital Costs 
Operational Costs 
Government mismanagement 




Decreasing 
--- 
Tolerance for outages 
Tolerance for price increases 
Competence 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Ahmed elBornou"  
To: "Michael Thomas"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 4:37:33 PM 
Subject: Re: home router battery backup 


Do we know if there are common reasons why these power outages are on the rise 
across different states and if this is expected to continue ? 



Ahmed 


On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 11:43 AM Michael Thomas < m...@mtcc.com > wrote: 



On 1/12/22 11:25 AM, Fred Baker wrote: 
> 
>> On Jan 12, 2022, at 10:37 AM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org 
>> > wrote: 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 10:18 AM Andy Ringsmuth < a...@andyring.com > wrote: 
>> Given that most people barely even know what their home router is, I suspect 
>> the percentage would be somewhere south of 1 percent. Outside of my home, I 
>> honestly cannot recall EVER seeing someone’s home using a battery backup for 
>> their internet infrastructure. 
>> 
>> Same here. The only people I've seen that have battery backups for their 
>> home routers are fellow geeks. I even bought one and shipped it to my 
>> ~70-year-old mother...and she just doesn't want to install it. "Too 
>> complicated". 
>> 
>> I personally do, but of course I (and probably everyone on this list) am by 
>> no means representative of the population at large in this particular area. 
>> 
>> Same. My home office has 3 Cyberpower 2500 VA double-conversion UPS units 
>> backed by Champion transfer switches. Power goes out, and ~45 seconds later 
>> I'm running on generator power. 
>> My local ISP runs out of power well before I do. Thankfully there's 
>> Starlink. 
>> 
>> Short of an asteroid hitting my office, it's highly unlikely I'll ever be 
>> offline. ;) 
> In my case (California, home of SCE and PG), we have been notified by our 
> electrical grid operators that power can go down at any time, for any reason, 
> and any duration. I have just moved, so I am speaking in a historical context 
> and future plans, but we have solar electricity as well and have a battery in 
> the home that in effect backs up part of the house. We don't back up the 
> Internet service, because frankly if power is down in the grid I'm not sure 
> my favorite router is all that important, in addition to the considerations 
> already mentioned. But power can and does go down - even without asteroids. 

We just installed a battery too, but it will probably only last ~1 day 
and much less than that in winter. We're in the process of looking at a 
generator that interfaces directly with the inverter so that it handles 
the grid, the battery, the solar and the generator along with the 
transfer switch. It's gone from being the occasional nuisance in the 
winter to all year long these days. Our power outage over the holidays 
lasted 12 days. This isn't just a rural problem anymore in California, 
it's a pretty much everywhere problem now. 

Mike 






Re: home router battery backup

2022-01-12 Thread Mike Hammett
" Top Gear Top Tip: I also have a UPS on my garage door opener. That saves the 
misses from dealing with manually opening/closing the garage door if I'm not 
at home." 




Keeping one's spouse happy is FAR more important than keeping a router or modem 
online. ;-) 



----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Sabri Berisha"  
To: "nanog"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 3:01:27 PM 
Subject: Re: home router battery backup 

- On Jan 12, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Andy Ringsmuth a...@andyring.com wrote: 

Hi, 

>> On Jan 12, 2022, at 11:35 AM, Scott T Anderson via NANOG  
>> wrote: 
>> services, I was wondering if anyone had any insights on the prevalence of 
>> battery backup for home modem/routers? I.e., what percentage of home users 
>> actually install a battery backup in their home modem/router or use an 
>> external 
>> UPS? 

> Given that most people barely even know what their home router is, I suspect 
> the 
> percentage would be somewhere south of 1 percent. Outside of my home, I 
> honestly cannot recall EVER seeing someone’s home using a battery backup for 
> their internet infrastructure. 

Same here. A small UPS that will keep my modem, router, and POE for APs alive 
for 
the time I need to run outside and hook up my generator when PG decides to 
cut 
the power again. A bigger UPS for the small 19" rack that hosts some stuff. 

Top Gear Top Tip: I also have a UPS on my garage door opener. That saves the 
misses from dealing with manually opening/closing the garage door if I'm not 
at home. 

Thanks, 

Sabri 



Re: Log4j mitigation

2021-12-13 Thread Mike Hammett
"Security" people often let perfect be the enemy of good. Sometimes it's okay. 
Sometimes not. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Karl Auer"  
To: "NANOG List"  
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 6:54:30 AM 
Subject: Re: Log4j mitigation 

On Mon, 2021-12-13 at 06:35 -0600, Joe Greco wrote: 
> Just because there are other sources of fatalities, doesn't mean you 
> can't check for the quick obvious stuff. 

Indeed. 

One check, even an inadequate one, is better than no checks at all. And 
over time you can add more checks or improve the ones you have. 

Don't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good". 

Regards, K. 


-- 
~~~ 
Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au) 
http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer 

GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58 
Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170 






Re: Assistance with Microsoft O365 Email Deliverability?

2021-12-10 Thread Mike Hammett
https://www.mailop.org/ 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Tom Daly"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2021 7:42:50 AM 
Subject: Assistance with Microsoft O365 Email Deliverability? 


Hi NANOG'ers, 



Reaching out for help - having troubles with email delivery into O365 inboxes. 
Have done the requisite PTRs, SPF+DKIM work, domain reputation, RBL checks, 
etc. 


For some reason, this one is vexxing me. Anyone from Microsoft on the list that 
could lend a helping hand? 


Thanks, 
Tom 


-- 



Tom Daly 
t...@q7.io 


Re: Looking for a Microsoft contact for helping a long lasting email delivery problem between Google and MS 365

2021-12-10 Thread Mike Hammett
https://www.mailop.org/ 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Payam Poursaied"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 9:53:18 PM 
Subject: Looking for a Microsoft contact for helping a long lasting email 
delivery problem between Google and MS 365 



Hi 
Sorry guys if this message bothers you. I would really appreciate it if someone 
from Microsoft, from the org deals with spam/quarantine Microsoft 365 Business 
email service could contact me offlist. 

We have a long-standing email delivery problem between Google (Google 
Workspace) and Microsoft (Microsoft 365 Business). 

Since October 15 th , when I found enough evidence of a problem with the 
Microsoft filtering system, I have gone through so many avenues. And I have 
documented all the communications and got nowhere. So believe me! I’m not 
calling for a CEO because of a tasteless cookie! 


Google Support does not help (and honestly could not do more. As Google’s 
servers have delivered to MS servers) 

October 15 th , support ticket here: 
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866 , support number: 
SR1530082617, result: technically nothing! 
November 10 th , support ticket here: 
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866 , support number: 
SRX1531269453, result: technically nothing! 
November 17 th , eventually, I signed up for an MS Business account to 
replicate the problem and escalate it within MS. So many back and forth, the 
last call was sending the EML, which I sent. Needless to say, sending the 
problematic content to the support was another mess! As those content got 
filtered by MS Mailserver. Ticket number 28465129. I should say the support guy 
is trying to do his best, but you can imagine it would be much challenging to 
voice up for an edge case in a large organization. 

I have been working in a 1K-headcount company and have seen genuine customer 
cases get mistreated. So I feel challenges at the size of MS. So, if anyone 
from MS is willing to give a hand to pinpoint the problem and get it solved, 
please contact me offlist. 

Best Regards 
Payam Poursaied 





Re: questions about ARIN ipv6 allocation

2021-12-07 Thread Mike Hammett
I can't imagine, as a percentage, a significant amount of voting ARIN members 
give a crap about what happens with legacy resources. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "William Herrin"  
To: "John Curran"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 10:34:46 AM 
Subject: Re: questions about ARIN ipv6 allocation 

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 3:25 AM John Curran  wrote: 
> On 6 Dec 2021, at 4:59 PM, Jay Hennigan  wrote: 
> > If ARIN's fee structure is such that it is financially advantageous for any 
> > class of network operators to turn off IPv6, they're doing it wrong IMHO. 
> 
> The situation is exactly opposite 

And yet you have people reporting that ARIN's fee schedule offers 
dissuasion for their deployments of IPv6. Right here in this email 
thread. How can that be? 

Don't gaslight us John. Seriously, it's not cool. ARIN fees make IPv6 
registration a neutral prospect for only a fraction of its 
registrants. You've presented something as broadly true that isn't. 
Those of us for whom your claim is false don't appreciate the 
insinuation that we've misrepresented ARIN's behavior. 

Regards, 
Bill Herrin 

-- 
William Herrin 
b...@herrin.us 
https://bill.herrin.us/ 



Re: IPv6 and CDN's

2021-11-26 Thread Mike Hammett
Care to explain because the alternative seems pretty self-evident. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Jose Luis Rodriguez"  
To: "Jean St-Laurent"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2021 8:16:53 AM 
Subject: Re: IPv6 and CDN's 

Well … YMMV. We’ve been running v6 for years, and it didn’t really make a dent 
in spend or boxes or rate of v4 depletion. Big part of the problem in our neck 
of the woods is millions of v4-only terminals … as well as large customer/gov 
bids requiring tons of v4 address space. 

> On Nov 26, 2021, at 07:04, Jean St-Laurent via NANOG  wrote: 
> 
> With a kicking ass pitch 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Mark 
> Tinka 
> Sent: November 26, 2021 5:52 AM 
> To: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Re: IPv6 and CDN's 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11/3/21 22:13, Max Tulyev wrote: 
>> 
>> Implementing IPv6 reduces costs for CGNAT. You will have (twice?) less 
>> traffic flow through CGNAT, so cheaper hardware and less IPv4 address 
>> space. Isn't it? 
> 
> How to express that in numbers CFO can take to the bank? 
> 
> Mark. 
> 



Re: Smokeping - EchoPingHttps

2021-10-24 Thread Mike Hammett
Noted. I transitioned over to the curl plugin and sites that didn't work now 
do. Some sites had a lower time, while some had a higher. 


The value of the time isn't so important to me as what it does over time. 




Thanks. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "John Adams"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org list"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 8:21:36 PM 
Subject: Re: Smokeping - EchoPingHttps 


I sort of feel like echopinghttps is a near 20-year old tool with little to no 
bearing on the reality of where TLS is today. 


The owner of this tool has discontinued it ( see 
https://github.com/bortzmeyer/echoping ) and it is no longer maintained. I 
wouldn't rely on it anymore. 


-john 




On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 4:26 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I used EchoPingHttps for the first time today. 


I pulled up the top 20 sites (well, removing duplicate sites from the same 
company) from Alexa and put them in to trend response times. I've had "this 
feels slow" over the years, but no way to really track that other than feels 
and pings. 


I noticed that a few (Facebook, Salesforce, ESPN, and Zillow) don't chart at 
all, with varying errors in a smokeping --debug. I've noticed that a couple 
more (Amazon and Etsy) are fickle in their responses. I assume if they're not 
responding, they're poo pooing on my fake client. Am I in the right ballpark? 




Next, is there a better way of doing this? I saw the curl plugin, but it was 
only after I had seen EchoPingHttps, so maybe curl is "better." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 






Smokeping - EchoPingHttps

2021-10-20 Thread Mike Hammett
I used EchoPingHttps for the first time today. 


I pulled up the top 20 sites (well, removing duplicate sites from the same 
company) from Alexa and put them in to trend response times. I've had "this 
feels slow" over the years, but no way to really track that other than feels 
and pings. 


I noticed that a few (Facebook, Salesforce, ESPN, and Zillow) don't chart at 
all, with varying errors in a smokeping --debug. I've noticed that a couple 
more (Amazon and Etsy) are fickle in their responses. I assume if they're not 
responding, they're poo pooing on my fake client. Am I in the right ballpark? 




Next, is there a better way of doing this? I saw the curl plugin, but it was 
only after I had seen EchoPingHttps, so maybe curl is "better." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

2021-10-18 Thread Mike Hammett
" to give priority" 


Assuming priority is given. 




It's going to be very rare for their to be both only one ISP and no other ISPs 
able to be motivated to be present. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 1:51:50 PM 
Subject: Re: DNS pulling BGP routes? 


On 10/18/21 11:09 AM, Sabri Berisha wrote: 
> 
> The term "network neutrality" was invented by people who want to control 
> a network owned and paid for by someone else. 
> 
> Your version of "unreasonable" and my version of "unreasonable" are on the 
> opposite end of the spectrum. I think it is unreasonable for you to tell me 
> how to run configure my routers, and you think it is unreasonable for me 
> to configure my routers that I pay for the way that I want to. 

Yeahbut, for the last mile that network is often a monopoly or maybe a 
duopoly if you're lucky. If streaming provider 1 pays ISP to give 
priority over streaming provider 2 -- maybe by severely rate limiting 
provider 2 -- the people who get screwed are end users without a way to 
vote with their feet. That sort of monopolistic behavior is bad for end 
users. Mostly I want ISP's to be dumb bit providers and stay out of 
shady deals that enrich ISP's at my expense. And if it takes regulation 
to do that, bring it. 

Mike 





Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

2021-10-18 Thread Mike Hammett
"at some point it just doesn't matter and becomes marketing hype." 

There is A LOT of hype over increasing broadband speeds, so much so to the 
point where immense oversubscription is the only practical way forward, then 
people piss and moan that ISPs didn't build enough to keep up with non-existent 
(at the time) demand. 



----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Thomas"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 3:13:50 PM 
Subject: Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge 




On 10/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: 





On 10/10/21 21:33, Matthew Petach wrote: 






If you sell a service for less than it costs to provide, simply 
based on the hopes that people won't actually *use* it, that's 
called "gambling", and I have very little sympathy for businesses 
that gamble and lose. 


You arrived at the crux of the issue, quickly, which was the basis of my 
initial response last week - infrastructure is dying. And we simply aren't 
motivated enough to figure it out. 

When you spend 25+ years sitting in a chair waiting for the phone to ring or 
the door to open, for someone to ask, "How much for 5Mbps?", your misfortune 
will never be your own fault. 




Isn't that what Erlang numbers are all about? My suspicion is that after about 
100Mbs most people wouldn't notice the difference in most cases. My ISP is 
about 25Mbs on a good day (DSL) and it serves our needs fine and have never run 
into bandwidth constraints. Maybe if we were streaming 4k all of the time it 
might be different, but frankly the difference for 4k isn't all that big. It's 
sort of like phone screen resolution: at some point it just doesn't matter and 
becomes marketing hype. 
Mike 



Re: The Outage

2021-10-04 Thread Mike Hammett
Jared, would you be able to post any system load graphs showing what the mail 
server is like during these kinda of massive outages? 


With that many users on the mailing list, I can only imagine that it takes 
forever to process sending those messages out to tens of thousands of people at 
a time, especially when half of the messages send to the list are outside of 
the intent of the list. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Andy Ringsmuth"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 12:55:26 PM 
Subject: The Outage 

I suppose it could just be me. 

Or it could be more than just me. 

Anyone else noticing that at the same time as the giant FB outage, both the 
outages and outages-discussion lists are suddenly slow as molasses in January 
too? 

Checking some headers on messages that do make it through to outages, I’m 
seeing delays up to an hour and a half. 

I sent one messages to outages-discussion at 11:41 CDT (75 minutes ago) and 
haven’t seen it show up yet. 

 
Andy Ringsmuth 
5609 Harding Drive 
Lincoln, NE 68521-5831 
(402) 304-0083 
a...@andyring.com 

“Better even die free, than to live slaves.” - Frederick Douglas, 1863 




Re: EXTERNAL: Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes

2021-09-27 Thread Mike Hammett
It seems like Cloudflare can do something now too because VoIP.MS is now routed 
through Cloudflare for their new servers. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Ray Orsini"  
To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 8:15:51 AM 
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes 


Yes there are. I was about to message Steve about the correction. Corero and 
path.net are options. There are others. 
OIT Website Ray Orsini ​ 
Chief Executive Officer 
OIT, LLC 
305.967.6756 x1009  |   305.571.6272 
r...@oit.co |   https://www.oit.co  www.oit.co 
oit.co/ray 

FacebookLinkedInTwitter YouTube
How are we doing? We'd love to hear your feedback. https://go.oit.co/review 


From: NANOG  on behalf of Mike Hammett 
 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 9:08:22 AM 
To: NANOG  
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes 



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe. If you are unsure, please forward this email to the CSE team for 
review. 



https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/837?autostart=false 




It looks like Security Now covered this yesterday. They claimed that, "There is 
currently no provider of large pipe VoIP protocol DDoS protection." 


Are any of the cloud DDoS mitigation services offering a service like this. 



From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:19:42 PM 
Subject: VoIP Provider DDoSes 


As many may know, a particular VoIP supplier is suffering a DDoS. 
https://twitter.com/voipms 


Are your garden variety DDoS mitigation platforms or services equipped to 
handle DDoSes of VoIP services? What nuances does one have to be cognizant of? 
A WAF doesn't mean much to SIP, IAX2, RTP, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 




Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes

2021-09-22 Thread Mike Hammett
Fail2Ban on a couple of dozen servers may not be sufficient to address 400 gigs 
of traffic. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Terrance Devor"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 10:24:07 AM 
Subject: Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes 


Fail2Ban and give ourselves a pat on the back.. 


On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:12 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/837?autostart=false 




It looks like Security Now covered this yesterday. They claimed that, "There is 
currently no provider of large pipe VoIP protocol DDoS protection." 


Are any of the cloud DDoS mitigation services offering a service like this. 



From: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > 
To: "NANOG" < nanog@nanog.org > 
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:19:42 PM 
Subject: VoIP Provider DDoSes 


As many may know, a particular VoIP supplier is suffering a DDoS. 
https://twitter.com/voipms 


Are your garden variety DDoS mitigation platforms or services equipped to 
handle DDoSes of VoIP services? What nuances does one have to be cognizant of? 
A WAF doesn't mean much to SIP, IAX2, RTP, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 






Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes

2021-09-22 Thread Mike Hammett
https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/837?autostart=false 




It looks like Security Now covered this yesterday. They claimed that, "There is 
currently no provider of large pipe VoIP protocol DDoS protection." 


Are any of the cloud DDoS mitigation services offering a service like this. 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:19:42 PM 
Subject: VoIP Provider DDoSes 


As many may know, a particular VoIP supplier is suffering a DDoS. 
https://twitter.com/voipms 


Are your garden variety DDoS mitigation platforms or services equipped to 
handle DDoSes of VoIP services? What nuances does one have to be cognizant of? 
A WAF doesn't mean much to SIP, IAX2, RTP, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes

2021-09-21 Thread Mike Hammett
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of DDoS. 


Some of their sites are hosted with large outfits like Softlayer and 
Hivelocity. Yeah, some others are a lot smaller. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 6:09:07 PM 
Subject: Re: VoIP Provider DDoSes 


Unlike http based services which can be placed behind cloudflare or similar, 
harder to protect sip trunking servers. 


The provider in question makes use of third party hosting services for each of 
their cities' POPs. It is my understanding that for the most part they do not 
run their own infrastructure but either rent dedicated servers or a few rack 
units of Colo in each city. 


I question whether some or any of those hosting companies have sufficient 
inbound (200-400Gbps) capacity to weather a moderately sized DDoS. 






On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




As many may know, a particular VoIP supplier is suffering a DDoS. 
https://twitter.com/voipms 


Are your garden variety DDoS mitigation platforms or services equipped to 
handle DDoSes of VoIP services? What nuances does one have to be cognizant of? 
A WAF doesn't mean much to SIP, IAX2, RTP, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 





Re: [EXTERNAL] VoIP Provider DDoSes

2021-09-21 Thread Mike Hammett
*nods* We have a Metaswitch SBC. 


So as long as the pipe isn't full, an SBC is the buffer one needs? If the pipe 
is filled, pump it through {insert DDoS mitigation service here}? 







- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Rich A Compton"  
To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:59:06 PM 
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] VoIP Provider DDoSes 



Most of the larger DDoS mitigation appliances can block malformed SIP traffic 
and also can block volumetric/state exhaustion UDP floods. A lot of VoIP 
companies have Session Border Controllers (SBCs) to protect public facing VoIP 
services. SBCs are more application aware. Kind of like a proxy based firewall 
just for VoIP. 

-Rich 


From: NANOG  on behalf of 
Mike Hammett  
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 3:31 PM 
To: NANOG list  
Subject: [EXTERNAL] VoIP Provider DDoSes 



CAUTION: The e-mail below is from an external source. Please exercise caution 
before opening attachments, clicking links, or following guidance. 

As many may know, a particular VoIP supplier is suffering a DDoS. 
https://twitter.com/voipms 



Are your garden variety DDoS mitigation platforms or services equipped to 
handle DDoSes of VoIP services? What nuances does one have to be cognizant of? 
A WAF doesn't mean much to SIP, IAX2, RTP, etc. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com The contents of this e-mail message and 
any attachments are intended solely for the 
addressee(s) and may contain confidential 
and/or legally privileged information. If you 
are not the intended recipient of this message 
or if this message has been addressed to you 
in error, please immediately alert the sender 
by reply e-mail and then delete this message 
and any attachments. If you are not the 
intended recipient, you are notified that 
any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, 
or storage of this message or any attachment 
is strictly prohibited. 


VoIP Provider DDoSes

2021-09-21 Thread Mike Hammett
As many may know, a particular VoIP supplier is suffering a DDoS. 
https://twitter.com/voipms 


Are your garden variety DDoS mitigation platforms or services equipped to 
handle DDoSes of VoIP services? What nuances does one have to be cognizant of? 
A WAF doesn't mean much to SIP, IAX2, RTP, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


IRR Upstream\Downstream

2021-09-20 Thread Mike Hammett
I'm trying to firm up my grasp of how I define my neighbor ASes in my IRR 
entries. 


https://bgp.he.net/AS40764#_irr 


In my aut-num, I've defined my two upstreams (Intercarrier and Cogent). I've 
used their AS-Set or just their AS and used that in the export lines. 


I'd assume I'd do the reverse in the import fields for any downstream 
customers. 


I realized after looking at this that I need to add an export to IX and other 
peering connections. 


What else do I need to change? 








Yes, I realized that I just asked NANOG to criticize me. Hopefully, I get more 
help than flames. ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


Re: Voice Middleware

2021-09-11 Thread Mike Hammett
Which that link would be stale, as Asterisk now defaults to PJ_SIP, which works 
differently. ;-) 


Some or all of the below functionality: 

1. Create\delete PBXes, SIP bindings, etc. as appropriate for new customers on 
Metaswitch. 
2. Order new DID, place new port, etc. from Peerless. 
3. Place, receive, etc. port requests with various porting partners such as 
Syniverse (which represents multiple carriers), Level 3, VFO (a common platform 
with LECs), etc. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "james jones"  
To: "Owen DeLong"  
Cc: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 3:07:39 PM 
Subject: Re: Voice Middleware 


Owen, 


Do you mean this 
https://www.voip-info.org/asterisk-how-to-connect-to-metaswitch/ ? 
I am not sure that is what he is looking for, but it could be. It has been a 
while for me as well :) 


Mike, 


Could you give a little more context in what you are trying to do? Are you 
looking for something that can manage all those devices via their web APIs? 


-James 


On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 12:39 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > 
wrote: 



I don’t know the current state, but I believe Asterisk was going down that road 
for a while. 


Owen 






On Sep 10, 2021, at 05:26 , Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



Before we build something from scratch, are there platforms that do the heavy 
lifting of talking to the Metaswitch API, Peerless's API, various LSR APIs, 
etc.? 


I mean this for provisioning purposes. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 







Voice Middleware

2021-09-10 Thread Mike Hammett

Before we build something from scratch, are there platforms that do the heavy 
lifting of talking to the Metaswitch API, Peerless's API, various LSR APIs, 
etc.? 


I mean this for provisioning purposes. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


Re: Mirai botnet is back — now as "Meris"

2021-09-09 Thread Mike Hammett
Mikrotik is a very popular router in small to medium ISPs, running, well, 
everything. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Töma Gavrichenkov"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 4:41:03 AM 
Subject: Mirai botnet is back — now as "Meris" 

Peace, 

An undisclosed (or, even, yet undiscovered by the vendor) 
vulnerability in SOHO Mikrotik routers seems to be exploited by 
someone. 
Approx. 328 thousand devices already joined the botnet, with each 
having unrestricted access to the uplink (up to 1 Gbps). 42,6% of 
exploited devices reside in the U.S. 

https://blog.qrator.net/en/meris-botnet-climbing-to-the-record_142/ 

I didn't know Mikrotik was so popular in North America! 
Patching all those SOHO WiFi routers must be fun... 

-- 
Töma 



Re: HBO Max Contact

2021-09-07 Thread Mike Hammett
Is that outside->in, inside->out, or middle-out? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Lukas Tribus"  
To: "Kevin McCormick"  
Cc: Nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 12:27:18 PM 
Subject: Re: HBO Max Contact 

Hello Kevin, 


On Tue, 7 Sept 2021 at 16:57, Kevin McCormick  wrote: 
> 
> HBO did respond to contact form page on website. 
> 
> 
> They referred us to Digital Elements. 

It's IP geolocation done right, as per the white-paper [1]: 

- distrusting WHOIS data 
- distrusting ISP provided data 
- not providing any check/demo page 
- not providing any contact information for victims (end users or ISPs) 
- amazing real time updates based on ... things: 

> Digital Element utilizes patented web-spidering technology and 20+ 
> proprietary methods 
> to triangulate the location, connection speed, and many other characteristics 
> associated 
> with an IP address. By combining this "inside-out" infrastructure analysis 
> with "outside-in" 
> user location feedback gleaned from a network of commercial partners to 
> improve and 
> validate its response at a hyperlocal level (city/postcode/ZIP+4), Digital 
> Element can 
> identify where the user actually accesses the Internet down to the ISP’s 
> end-point 
> equipment. 
> [...] 
> "With such an extensive customer network performing more than 10 trillion IP 
> lookups 
> per month, the company is able to pick up IP address reallocations the 
> instant they 
> occur, ensuring that data remains highly current and accurate." 


And just to reiterate one more time: 

> By combining this "inside-out" infrastructure analysis with "outside-in" 
> user location feedback gleaned from a network of commercial partners to 
> improve and 
> validate its response at a hyperlocal level (city/postcode/ZIP+4), Digital 
> Element can 
> identify where the user actually accesses the Internet down to the ISP’s 
> end-point 
> equipment. 

and again: 

> the company is able to pick up IP address reallocations the instant they 
> occur 


's all good, man! 


[1] 
https://www.digitalelement.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/IPGEO-myths-facts.pdf 



Re: The great Netflix vpn debacle!

2021-08-31 Thread Mike Hammett
"on you home router" 

Is that still common anymore? 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Mark Andrews"  
To: "Bryan Holloway"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 5:15:18 PM 
Subject: Re: The great Netflix vpn debacle! 

Force the traffic to these companies to use IPv6. Advise your customers that 
you are doing this, why you are doing this and what steps they need to take 
to enable IPv6 on their equipment. Your customers can’t be in a worse position. 

"Dear customer, 
if you want to reach … you will need to enable IPv6 support in 
your home network. The world ran out of enough IPv4 for everyone several years 
back and we have been sharing IPv4 between customers to allow you to reach IPv4 
only sites. The afore mentioned companies are now blocking IPv4 connections 
from 
ISPs that have to share IPv4 addresses. To give you a better service we are 
blocking IPv4 connections to these companies so you will get a more reliable 
service 
over IPv6. 

For instructions on how to enable IPv6 connectivity on you home router see this 
page …. 

If your home router does not support IPv6 you will need to upgrade it to one 
that does." 

> On 1 Sep 2021, at 06:36, Bryan Holloway  wrote: 
> 
> Thanks, Owen ... good point. 
> 
> Now hearing reports for these same prefixes with Disney+ too. 
> 
> So the common denominators are: 
> 
> HBO 
> Hulu 
> Netflix 
> Amazon Prime 
> Disney+ 
> 
> ... there has _got_ to be some new-fangled DB somewhere. This all started in 
> the last month or so. 
> 
> All of our RR objects, whois, DNS is solid ... dehr? 
> 
> Fun times. 
> 
> 
> On 8/31/21 9:16 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: 
> 
> [snip] 
> 
>> Geolocate and VPN or Not are often kind of tied to the same kinds of 
>> reporting services and it may well be that whatever provider HBO is using 
>> for one is also being used for the other. 
>> Owen 

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC 
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia 
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org 




Re: Amazon Prime Video IP reputation

2021-08-17 Thread Mike Hammett
Yes, but historically, Amazon hasn't been very IPv6 friendly. Has that shifted? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Owen DeLong via NANOG"  
To: "Eric C. Miller"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 7:20:35 PM 
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime Video IP reputation 

That’s probably going to be a common theme with CGN and is a really good reason 
to make IPv6 available to as many of your customers as possible. 


Owen 






On Aug 17, 2021, at 16:30 , Eric C. Miller < e...@ericheather.com > wrote: 



Does anybody know which IP reputation service Amazon uses for Prime video? 
Within the last couple of hours several of our CGNAT publics are showing up as 
VPN or proxy when someone tries to watch Amazon video. 


Any help would be appreciated! 


Thank you! 
Eric 





Re: The great Netflix vpn debacle!

2021-08-13 Thread Mike Hammett
https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/ 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "John Alcock"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2021 2:11:16 PM 
Subject: The great Netflix vpn debacle! 

Well, 


It happened. I have multiple subscribers calling in. They can not access 
Netflix. 


Any contacts on list for Netflix that I can use to get my up blocks 
whitelisted? 


John 


Re: Does anybody here have a problem

2021-08-10 Thread Mike Hammett
Are you referring to mailing lists that lack some kind of added prefix to the 
subject? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "C. A. Fillekes"  
To: "NANOG mailing list"  
Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 6:43:50 PM 
Subject: Does anybody here have a problem 





telling the difference between their NANOG and SCA mail? 


since I stopped getting both in digest form, maybe it's easier to mix the two 
up by mistake. 



Re: Abuse Contact Handling

2021-08-06 Thread Mike Hammett
"we don’t get to tell someone they’re managing their network wrong" 

Sure we do. They don't have to listen, but we get to tell them. RFCs are full 
of things that one shall not do, must do, etc. We shame network operators all 
of the time for things they do that affect the global community. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Matt Corallo"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:50:00 AM 
Subject: Re: Abuse Contact Handling 



Costs real money to figure out, for each customer scanning parts of the 
internet, if they’re doing it legitimately or maliciously. Costs real money to 
look into whether someone is spamming or just sending bulk email that customers 
signed up for. And what do you do if it is legitimate? Lots of abuse reports 
don’t follow X-ARF, so now you have to have a human process than and chose 
which ones to ignore. Or you just tell everyone to fill out a common web form 
and then the data is all nice and structured and you can process it sanely. 


Like Randy said, we don’t get to tell someone they’re managing their network 
wrong. If you don’t want to talk to AWS, don’t talk to AWS. If you want them to 
manage their network differently, reach out, understand their business 
concerns, help alleviate them. Maybe propose a second Abuse Contact type that 
only accepts X-ARF that they can use? There’s lots of things that could be done 
that are productive here. 


Matt 






On Aug 6, 2021, at 08:08, Mike Hammett  wrote: 







I suppose if they did a better job of policing their own network, they wouldn't 
have as much hitting their e-mail boxes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Matt Corallo"  
To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2021 3:44:43 PM 
Subject: Re: Abuse Contact Handling 

There's a few old threads on this from last year or so, but while unmonitored 
abuse contacts are terrible, similarly, 
people have installed automated abuse contact spammer systems which is equally 
terrible. Thus, lots of the large hosting 
providers have deemed the cost of actually putting a human on an abuse contact 
is much too high. 

I'm not sure what the answer is here, but I totally get why large providers 
just say "we can better protect a web form 
with a captcha than an email box, go use that if there's real abuse". 

Matt 

On 8/5/21 09:14, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> What does the greater operator community think of RIR abuse contacts that are 
> unmonitored autoresponders? 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> Midwest-IX 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 






Re: Abuse Contact Handling

2021-08-06 Thread Mike Hammett
I suppose if they did a better job of policing their own network, they wouldn't 
have as much hitting their e-mail boxes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Matt Corallo"  
To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2021 3:44:43 PM 
Subject: Re: Abuse Contact Handling 

There's a few old threads on this from last year or so, but while unmonitored 
abuse contacts are terrible, similarly, 
people have installed automated abuse contact spammer systems which is equally 
terrible. Thus, lots of the large hosting 
providers have deemed the cost of actually putting a human on an abuse contact 
is much too high. 

I'm not sure what the answer is here, but I totally get why large providers 
just say "we can better protect a web form 
with a captcha than an email box, go use that if there's real abuse". 

Matt 

On 8/5/21 09:14, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> What does the greater operator community think of RIR abuse contacts that are 
> unmonitored autoresponders? 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> Midwest-IX 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 



Abuse Contact Handling

2021-08-05 Thread Mike Hammett
What does the greater operator community think of RIR abuse contacts that are 
unmonitored autoresponders? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


Re: Google Geo Location Issues

2021-06-30 Thread Mike Hammett
I've discovered that if you *CAN* get a Google ISP account, you can manage it 
all there. 


If you can't, well, you're up shit creek without a paddle. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Jason Kuehl"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 6:25:06 PM 
Subject: Google Geo Location Issues 


I'm looking for a contact, email, number, smoke signals for someone at Google I 
can talk to on geolocation issue. For some reason Google has labeled our IP 
ranges as Belarus when we're located in the states. If anyone can point me at 
any contact I would be really happy.. 


. 


-- 

Sincerely, 

Jason W Kuehl 
Cell 920-419-8983 
jason.w.ku...@gmail.com 


Zhone Consultant

2021-06-21 Thread Mike Hammett
Google hasn't been much help. I am seeking recommendations of Zhone consultants 
to rebuild our ZMS server. I have far too much on my plate for what I'd expect 
to be commodity-type work. 


Offlist is fine. 


Yes, I have asked DZS what they have for professional services. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



Re: Can't Port from a Particular Rate Center

2021-06-09 Thread Mike Hammett
Naw, the losing carrier is a major cable company. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: sro...@ronan-online.com 
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG Operators' Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 3:46:03 PM 
Subject: Re: Can't Port from a Particular Rate Center 

Coming from another one of their customers? 


Shane Ronan 



On Jun 9, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote: 








I first asked on a list much more narrow in scope, but failing to get 
sufficient data points, I've expanded my scope. 






Assuming the number isn't held by someone exempt from porting, what would 
prevent someone from being able to port a number from a particular rate center 
in a LATA they have coverage in? 




We picked up a particular carrier for our out-of-area needs and the first thing 
we throw at them in a LATA we know they have coverage in, they can't do. They 
have a non-useful reason why. It doesn't appear to have moved to a state where 
they contacted the losing provider as the response was very fast, so my 
provider rejected the port, not theirs. 




When I started at this company (where we do our own porting), I made sure to 
port a bunch of numbers from all over our LATA to see what would happen. All 
successful. That seems to indicate that it doesn't matter which xLEC or tandem 
currently serves that number, it can move elsewhere. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 






Can't Port from a Particular Rate Center

2021-06-09 Thread Mike Hammett

I first asked on a list much more narrow in scope, but failing to get 
sufficient data points, I've expanded my scope. 






Assuming the number isn't held by someone exempt from porting, what would 
prevent someone from being able to port a number from a particular rate center 
in a LATA they have coverage in? 




We picked up a particular carrier for our out-of-area needs and the first thing 
we throw at them in a LATA we know they have coverage in, they can't do. They 
have a non-useful reason why. It doesn't appear to have moved to a state where 
they contacted the losing provider as the response was very fast, so my 
provider rejected the port, not theirs. 




When I started at this company (where we do our own porting), I made sure to 
port a bunch of numbers from all over our LATA to see what would happen. All 
successful. That seems to indicate that it doesn't matter which xLEC or tandem 
currently serves that number, it can move elsewhere. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

2021-06-04 Thread Mike Hammett
Assuming you were able to get the maximum capacity (you don't for a variety of 
reasons), the maximum capacity of a given access point is 1.2 gigabit/s. On a 
2:1 ratio, that's about 800 megs down and 400 megs up. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Baldur Norddahl"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 5:03:53 PM 
Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections 







On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 11:46 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




2.4 gigabit per channel, but only 1.2 gigabit from a given access point. 


Most often, WISPs choose down\up ratios between 85/15 and 66/34 and then sell 
plans appropriately. If we're now required to have a symmetric 100 megs, you'll 
be robbing even more of the downstream for the upstream. Why would you do that? 
So that you're relatively capable of providing what you're selling. The 
alternative is gross oversubscription. 




66/34 is 2:1 or exactly the same as GPON (2.4 down, 1.2 up). We sell 1000 
symmetrical on that GPON and the customers are happy. You would have much less 
oversubscription with 100/100 on a 1.2 Gbps wireless with 66:34 down/up ratio, 
than we are doing with GPON and 1000/1000. We are also doing 128 customers on a 
single OLT port. 


Remember that a single customer only adds a few Mbps peak to your bandwidth 
usage. 


Regards, 


Baldur 






Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

2021-06-03 Thread Mike Hammett
2.4 gigabit per channel, but only 1.2 gigabit from a given access point. 


Most often, WISPs choose down\up ratios between 85/15 and 66/34 and then sell 
plans appropriately. If we're now required to have a symmetric 100 megs, you'll 
be robbing even more of the downstream for the upstream. Why would you do that? 
So that you're relatively capable of providing what you're selling. The 
alternative is gross oversubscription. 


Cable will have to reassign their DOCSIS channels similarly (and whatever 
equipment swaps are needed in the plant to accomplish that). 


VDSL-type services are kind of stuck as I'm not aware of any mechanisms to 
accomplish that. 








and why? 


Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to get higher speeds. I'm just 
against raising the bar until what's under the bar has been taken care of. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Baldur Norddahl"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 11:18:58 AM 
Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections 







On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 2:40 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 



I think you're really out of touch with what is going on in the WISP space. 


See the following product as an example: 


https://www.cambiumnetworks.com/products/pmp-450/5-ghz-pmp-450m-fixed-wireless-access-point/
 

14x14 beam-steering Massive Multi-User MIMO. This is able to talk, in the same 
channel, at the same time, to up to 7 endpoints using both vertical and 
horizontal polarities at the same time. Total throughput per 40Mhz channel: 
1.2Gb/s per AP. 


Because of the TDMA synchronization, you can actually hang two of these on the 
same tower front to back using the same channel. So 2.4Gb/s per Frequency. And 
there are dozens of channels available at this point. 






But isn't that just proving my point? If you can do 2,4 Gbps per frequency, why 
are the WISPs whining about a 100 Mbps requirement?! 


Regards, 


Baldur 









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