Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Alan Buxey]

when i was last on a proper working multicast-enabled UK university
network, could pick up the BBC streams (TV and radio) using VLC  :)

alan

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Brandon Butterworth]

On Fri Aug 10, 2018 at 01:02:38PM +0100, James Bensley wrote:
> Do they offer multicast to iPlayer to these partners or only
> for set-top-box services?

Only to STB currently, with little end user device support for multicast
it didn't go anywhere as a direct consumer proposition.

The ISPs with enough users to make it worthwhile either had their own STB
(Virgin, Sky) or jointly made one with us (Youview - BT/TalkTalk)

brandon

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Brandon Butterworth]

On Fri Aug 10, 2018 at 08:44:55AM +0100, Jethro R Binks wrote:
> In terms of other Internet use, the BBC recently published this white 
> paper on the R&D efforts with HTTP Server Push/QUIC, part of which 
> describes an "experimental IP multicast profile of HTTP over QUIC".
> 
>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper336

We're doing this as part of our work on moving the entirety of
broadcast, from camera to viewer, to IP. The broadcast industry is
going this way now (visit IBC or NAB and see) so you'll see plenty of
multicast inside their networks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper268

I've kept out of the multicast hate fest, it's a tool and some tools
work better in some situations than others, some may be a bit old and
blunt.

I don't think banishing multicast is the answer. It would be better to
fix the problems instead, if we don't want to sustain the content based
balkanisation of the internet by content rights holders and eyeball
networks that support them to exlude competition.

Internet VOD is huge but there is little linear TV. VOD traffic is
driving standards development not linear TV, so there is no demand to
fix inter domain multicast. We think our iPlayer VOD service traffic is
quite large but it is only 5% of our viewing so linear TV is not dead
yet, especially for major events. We could scale our CDNs for this but
multicast does it more efficiently in some networks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2018-07-ultra-high-definition-uhd-viewing

Our aim with MPEG-DASH is to have one standard for uni and multicast
streaming where clients transparently use whichever works. If an edge
network wishes to use multicast, as many do for IPTV, they can but they
may have to use unicast from the origin, we didn't want to be delayed
for another 10 years waiting for other networks to turn it (back) on.
The edge network does not have to roll out multicast 100% as it will
just be used wherever it happens to have been deployed.

There have been standards for this, usually with tunnels. Using the
same DASH stream format means it's simpler to do transparently this way
giving networks more flexibility to handle the capacity issues when we
do a World Cup in IP only.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44850988

The latency problem remains, people don't like hearing the goal cheers
through the wall and waiting for it to appear on their screen.
Sometimes not all new standards, forcing video over HTTP rather than
RTSP, are progress.

brandon

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[James Bensley]

On 10 August 2018 at 08:44, Jethro R Binks  wrote:
>
> In terms of other Internet use, the BBC recently published this white
> paper on the R&D efforts with HTTP Server Push/QUIC, part of which
> describes an "experimental IP multicast profile of HTTP over QUIC".
>
>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper336
>
> Jethro.

The BBC publishes this list of multicast partners but I'm not sure if
it's up-to-date and they still offer multicast outside of their own
network? iPlayer is unicast to consumer, so? Do they offer multicast
to iPlayer to these partners or only for set-top-box services?

Cheers,
James.

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Jethro R Binks]

In terms of other Internet use, the BBC recently published this white 
paper on the R&D efforts with HTTP Server Push/QUIC, part of which 
describes an "experimental IP multicast profile of HTTP over QUIC".

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper336

Jethro.


.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
Jethro R Binks, Network Manager,
Information Services Directorate, University Of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK

The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, number SC015263.



On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, Curtis, Bruce wrote:

> Multicast was also required for earlier versions of VXLAN.  But later 
> versions or VXLAN only require unicast.
> 
> For the far future it seems like Named Data Neworking, Content Centric 
> Networking, Information Centric Networking, Data Centric Networking etc all 
> list multicast as a requirement or fundamental part of their architecture.
> 
> > On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Greg Shepherd  wrote:
> > 
> > Financial exchanges around the world use multicast.
> > 
> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Stan Barber  wrote:
> > 
> >> As someone else remarked, part of this will depend on the type of network
> >> you are profiling. One enterprise networking may have critical internal
> >> applications that depend on multicast to work and others may have nothing
> >> but the basic requirements of the network itself (e.g. IPv6 uses multicast
> >> instead of broadcast for some network control information distribution).
> >> 
> >> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG <
> >> nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Hi Every one,
> >>> Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet.
> >>> From discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in
> >>> enterprise.  Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in
> >>> network
> >>> 
> >>>  *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
> >>> multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic
> >> it
> >>> would add up?
> >>>  *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to
> >>> know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy
> >> multicast.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain
> >> points
> >>> for multicast, and how can we simplify it.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Mankamana
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Bruce Curtis bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
> Certified NetAnalyst II701-231-8527
> North Dakota State University
> 
> 

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Greg Shepherd]

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Curtis, Bruce 
wrote:

>
> Multicast was also required for earlier versions of VXLAN.  But later
> versions or VXLAN only require unicast.
>
> For the far future it seems like Named Data Neworking, Content Centric
> Networking, Information Centric Networking, Data Centric Networking etc all
> list multicast as a requirement or fundamental part of their architecture.


And they would all be better served by using BIER.

Greg


> > On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Greg Shepherd  wrote:
> >
> > Financial exchanges around the world use multicast.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Stan Barber  wrote:
> >
> >> As someone else remarked, part of this will depend on the type of
> network
> >> you are profiling. One enterprise networking may have critical internal
> >> applications that depend on multicast to work and others may have
> nothing
> >> but the basic requirements of the network itself (e.g. IPv6 uses
> multicast
> >> instead of broadcast for some network control information distribution).
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG <
> >> nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Every one,
> >>> Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet.
> >>> From discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in
> >>> enterprise.  Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present
> in
> >>> network
> >>>
> >>>  *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
> >>> multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast
> traffic
> >> it
> >>> would add up?
> >>>  *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to
> >>> know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy
> >> multicast.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain
> >> points
> >>> for multicast, and how can we simplify it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Mankamana
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
> ---
> Bruce Curtis bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
> Certified NetAnalyst II701-231-8527
> North Dakota State University
>
>

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Curtis, Bruce]

Multicast was also required for earlier versions of VXLAN.  But later versions 
or VXLAN only require unicast.

For the far future it seems like Named Data Neworking, Content Centric 
Networking, Information Centric Networking, Data Centric Networking etc all 
list multicast as a requirement or fundamental part of their architecture.

> On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Greg Shepherd  wrote:
> 
> Financial exchanges around the world use multicast.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Stan Barber  wrote:
> 
>> As someone else remarked, part of this will depend on the type of network
>> you are profiling. One enterprise networking may have critical internal
>> applications that depend on multicast to work and others may have nothing
>> but the basic requirements of the network itself (e.g. IPv6 uses multicast
>> instead of broadcast for some network control information distribution).
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG <
>> nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Every one,
>>> Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet.
>>> From discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in
>>> enterprise.  Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in
>>> network
>>> 
>>>  *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
>>> multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic
>> it
>>> would add up?
>>>  *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to
>>> know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy
>> multicast.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain
>> points
>>> for multicast, and how can we simplify it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Mankamana
>>> 
>>> 
>> 


---
Bruce Curtis bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
Certified NetAnalyst II701-231-8527
North Dakota State University

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[James Bensley]

On 9 August 2018 at 13:57, Saku Ytti  wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Aug 2018 at 15:27, James Bensley  wrote:
>
>> A recent customer uses multicast to have the same packet arrive at
>> multiple destinations at the same time for resilience (their own
>> internal systems, not IPTV or media etc). Having just refreshed their
>> network for the next 5-10 years it's not going away anytime soon.
>
> I believe the same time delivery is motivation for stock exchanges
> too. One of the larger exchanges used MX and multicast, which of
> course does btree or utree (in this  case utree) replication, which
> makes delivery times are very much variant.
> So it is very much implementation detail what type of delivery time
> differences to expect in different ports and it is not by design
> superior to unicast.


I'm definately not saying it was a good idea / good design :)

I'm just saying that it's another example of multicast in use that is
not the usual IPTV or financial trading (aeronautical in this case).

Cheers,
James.

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Saku Ytti]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2018 at 15:27, James Bensley  wrote:

> A recent customer uses multicast to have the same packet arrive at
> multiple destinations at the same time for resilience (their own
> internal systems, not IPTV or media etc). Having just refreshed their
> network for the next 5-10 years it's not going away anytime soon.

I believe the same time delivery is motivation for stock exchanges
too. One of the larger exchanges used MX and multicast, which of
course does btree or utree (in this  case utree) replication, which
makes delivery times are very much variant.
So it is very much implementation detail what type of delivery time
differences to expect in different ports and it is not by design
superior to unicast.

-- 
  ++ytti

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[James Bensley]

On 8 August 2018 at 19:49, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG
 wrote:
> Hi Every one,
> Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet. From 
> discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in enterprise.  
> Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in network
>
>   *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is multicast 
> traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic it would add 
> up?
>   *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to know 
> if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy multicast.
>
>
> These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain points 
> for multicast, and how can we simplify it.

A recent customer uses multicast to have the same packet arrive at
multiple destinations at the same time for resilience (their own
internal systems, not IPTV or media etc). Having just refreshed their
network for the next 5-10 years it's not going away anytime soon.

Cheers,
James.

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Thomas Bellman]

On 2018-08-08 23:36, na...@jack.fr.eu.org wrote:

> Let me fix that for you.
> Using multicast on IPv6 grant us the ability to do more.
> Today, this is worthless.
> Will it be the same tomorrow ?

Problem is, to handle the Neigbour Discovery design (16M multicast
groups), we need hardware that does not exist yet, is unlikely to
exist for at least another decade and will not be down to reasonable
prices (< 5 kUSD) for even longer.  In the meantime, IPv6 neigbour
discovery *precludes* the use of multicast for other purposes on
non-small networks, because IPv6 ND will use up all multicast groups.

If ND had limited itself to 256 multicast groups, it wouldn't have
been a problem.

> Multicast without NDP is broadcast,

(With s/NDP/MLD/ as you yourself mentioned.)

That's the case for Ethernet.  Hop over to the Infiniband or OmniPath
world, and multicast without MLD will cause packets to be dropped.
There is no such thing as broadcast on IB or OPA.

(At least OmniPath does have something called "multicast LID sharing",
where the IPv6 ND groups are clamped down to just 512 distinct groups,
but I haven't read up on the details for how that works, yet.  I don't
know offhand if there is something similar for Infiniband.)


/Bellman



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Brian Knight]

On 2018-08-08 13:49, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG wrote:

Hi Every one,
Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public
internet. From discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is
more with in enterprise.  Wanted to understand how much % multicast
traffic present in network

  *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast
traffic it would add up?
  *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love
to know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy
multicast.


These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain
points for multicast, and how can we simplify it.



Thanks
Mankamana



Hi Mankamana,

I once worked for a financial futures broker-dealer where I implemented 
multicast, which was around 2009.  They had one main application, which 
was a trading "screen" that traders and customers used to execute 
trades.  I would guesstimate maybe 5-10% of the packets and bytes 
flowing over the network was multicast, depending on network conditions.


In terms of bandwidth savings, I'm not sure how much we saved.  We had 
nine or ten participants using that particular application.  However, 
they all worked on different desks, trading different products.  The app 
was smart enough to send only the price feeds in which the user was 
interested.  Assuming at least 50% of the users looked at the same price 
feeds 50% of the time, I'd say it saved about 25-50 meg.


We also had one major exchange distributing price feeds via multicast.  
However, that feed was not routed on our network.  Our systems plugged 
directly into exchange-provided switches for the feed.


The hurdles I had to overcome to implement multicast were:

* The learning curve for PIM.  Deciding on the deployment model was 
difficult, as were the first few support calls.  We wound up going with 
PIM-SM w/ BSR for RP selection.


* Vendor support for PIM on our gear.  These were mainly troubles with 
PIM running on firewalls in high-availability mode.


If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have bothered with multicast.  
It was a great opportunity and we learned a lot, but the app had a 
unicast mode of operation that would have worked perfectly fine for our 
purposes.


I work for an ISP now.  We have decided not to support multicast on our 
network for now mainly because of the learning curve, and also because 
we simply don't see that much demand.  Those two or three prospective 
customers that wanted it, wanted it for multi-site video conferencing on 
an MPLS VPN.


Hope this helps,

-Brian

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Daniel Corbe]

On 8/8/2018 18:22:04, "Scott Weeks"  wrote:



--- j...@depaul.edu wrote:
From: John Kristoff 

:: In my experience, real world IP multicast experience
:: and expertise is almost non-existent.



Major snippage, but these're my experiences, too.
However, not in the .edu world.

scott





I've been working with IP now for close to 15 years and my first 
exposure to multicast wasn't until I recently began working on a cable 
TV product for an ISP that runs a residential access network.


So I can believe that, for sure.

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Scott Weeks]

--- j...@depaul.edu wrote:
From: John Kristoff 

:: In my experience, real world IP multicast experience 
:: and expertise is almost non-existent.  

:: but it tends to just work once setup and rarely 
:: changes. 

:: the setup was done a long time ago and people rarely 
:: touch it now.

:: If I want to simplify and secure things a little 
:: more, I'd probably look at better limiting IGMP and 
:: PIM joins.  Limiting as much of the possibility for 
:: anyone or anything to instantiate state in the 
:: network


Major snippage, but these're my experiences, too.  
However, not in the .edu world.

scott

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[John Kristoff]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:49:52 +
"Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG"  wrote:

>   *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
> multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast
> traffic it would add up?

Good question about the volume (and frequency).  I will see if I can
measure here, but all I can say if it helps any, is that is still
fairly widely used in the enterprise for "imaging" systems.  That is,
updating a set of systems and apps simultaneously from a single source.

> *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love
> to know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy
> multicast.

In my experience, real world IP multicast experience and expertise is
almost non-existent.  This is the big problem potentially, because it is
fairly popular on some campuses for niche applications, but it tends to
just work once setup and rarely changes.  For many R&E institutions,
the setup was done a long time ago and people rarely touch it now.

However, I rarely see IP multicast-related problems anymore.  It
helps that interdomain multicast is dying.  Traditional PIM-SM
with one or more anycast RPs isn't too complicated, and I can't
remember the last time anything out of the ordinary came up.

A decade or more ago at another institution that did IP/TV over IP
multicast to dorms, we'd run into head-banging-against-the-wall problems
about once a year.  Very painful experiences usually due to buggy
router code or interesting switch/router behavior with IGMP-snooping
and/or joins/leaves.  Those days seem to be behind us.

> These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain
> points for multicast, and how can we simplify it.

I can't think of too much that should change now.  If I want to simplify
and secure things a little more, I'd probably look at better limiting
IGMP and PIM joins.  Limiting as much of the possibility for anyone or
anything to instantiate state in the network devices.  SSM without the
all the potential source-specific state would be nice.

John

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[nanog]

s/NDP/MLD/

On 08/08/2018 11:36 PM, na...@jack.fr.eu.org wrote:
> On 08/08/2018 11:27 PM, Saku Ytti wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 at 23:53, Stan Barber  wrote:
>> Another 'we fixed a problem in IPv6', which turned out to be worse
>> than the original problem and was quietly ignored in practical
>> networks.
>>
> 
> Let me fix that for you.
> Using multicast on IPv6 grant us the ability to do more.
> Today, this is worthless.
> Will it be the same tomorrow ?
> 
> Multicast without NDP is broadcast, thus for that particular thing, ipv6
> is just better than ipv4.
> 

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[nanog]

On 08/08/2018 11:27 PM, Saku Ytti wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 at 23:53, Stan Barber  wrote:
> Another 'we fixed a problem in IPv6', which turned out to be worse
> than the original problem and was quietly ignored in practical
> networks.
> 

Let me fix that for you.
Using multicast on IPv6 grant us the ability to do more.
Today, this is worthless.
Will it be the same tomorrow ?

Multicast without NDP is broadcast, thus for that particular thing, ipv6
is just better than ipv4.

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Arie Vayner]

Multicast is heavily used for applications such as stock trading and
industrial networks. So it really depends...

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018, 00:23 Justin M. Streiner  wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG wrote:
>
> >  *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
> > multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic
> > it would add up?
> >  *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to
> > know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy
> > multicast.
>
> > These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain
> > points for multicast, and how can we simplify it.
>
> The amount of multicast traffic on an enterprise network will depend
> greatly on how multicast is being used, and to some extent, the type of
> business the enterprise is in.
>
> An enterprise that uses multicast primarily for IPTV distribution might
> have different business and technology drivers than, say, a hospital
> or healthcare organization that has patient monitors that use multicast
> to communicate back to a central monitoring station.  The percentage of
> multicast traffic in those two scenarios might be vastly different, but
> no less important to their respective organizations.
>
> Thank you
> jms
>

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Greg Shepherd]

Financial exchanges around the world use multicast.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Stan Barber  wrote:

> As someone else remarked, part of this will depend on the type of network
> you are profiling. One enterprise networking may have critical internal
> applications that depend on multicast to work and others may have nothing
> but the basic requirements of the network itself (e.g. IPv6 uses multicast
> instead of broadcast for some network control information distribution).
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG <
> nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Every one,
> > Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet.
> > From discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in
> > enterprise.  Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in
> > network
> >
> >   *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
> > multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic
> it
> > would add up?
> >   *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to
> > know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy
> multicast.
> >
> >
> > These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain
> points
> > for multicast, and how can we simplify it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mankamana
> >
> >
>

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Saku Ytti]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 at 23:53, Stan Barber  wrote:

> but the basic requirements of the network itself (e.g. IPv6 uses multicast
> instead of broadcast for some network control information distribution).

This is almost never true, it's rare exception rather than common case.

The idea was that in IPv4 networks ARP broadcast waste bandwidth and
host CPU. To fix this problem, each host (sufficiently small group of
IPv6 addresses unlikely to collide) subscribes to its own multicast
group. So we don't need to flood the ND traffic to hosts not needing
it.
But it turned out supporting ~infinitely many multicast states is
harder problem than pushing frames in hardware to all ports. So all
practical networks run IPv6 ND same as ARP.

Another 'we fixed a problem in IPv6', which turned out to be worse
than the original problem and was quietly ignored in practical
networks.

-- 
  ++ytti

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Justin M. Streiner]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG wrote:

 *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is 
multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic 
it would add up?
 *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to 
know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy 
multicast.


These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain 
points for multicast, and how can we simplify it.


The amount of multicast traffic on an enterprise network will depend 
greatly on how multicast is being used, and to some extent, the type of 
business the enterprise is in.


An enterprise that uses multicast primarily for IPTV distribution might 
have different business and technology drivers than, say, a hospital 
or healthcare organization that has patient monitors that use multicast 
to communicate back to a central monitoring station.  The percentage of 
multicast traffic in those two scenarios might be vastly different, but 
no less important to their respective organizations.


Thank you
jms

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Stan Barber]

As someone else remarked, part of this will depend on the type of network
you are profiling. One enterprise networking may have critical internal
applications that depend on multicast to work and others may have nothing
but the basic requirements of the network itself (e.g. IPv6 uses multicast
instead of broadcast for some network control information distribution).

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG <
nanog@nanog.org> wrote:

> Hi Every one,
> Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet.
> From discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in
> enterprise.  Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in
> network
>
>   *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is
> multicast traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic it
> would add up?
>   *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to
> know if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy multicast.
>
>
> These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain points
> for multicast, and how can we simplify it.
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Mankamana
>
>

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Curtis, Bruce]

On Aug 8, 2018, at 3:29 PM, na...@jack.fr.eu.org 
wrote:

I believe multicast is only used for IPTV

  There is at least one company that is using multicast for video switching, or 
in other words to replace HDMI switchers in rooms with video sources and 
displays.

  They have devices that encode video from an HDMI input to a multicast stream.
And devices that receive a multicast stream and output the video from that 
stream to an HDMI output.

So you can have multiple cameras and a multicast stream for each camera is 
input into the network.
Then you can have a projector that can choose any of those multicast streams to 
display.

I believe the video is uncompressed


Multicast by itself does not reduce much bandwidth : that reduction is
purely based on the network design
If you place unicast nodes near your customers, multicast is effectively
unicast (just think about it) :)


On 08/08/2018 08:49 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG wrote:
Hi Every one,
Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet. From 
discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in enterprise.  
Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in network

 *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is multicast 
traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic it would add up?
 *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to know if 
there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy multicast.


These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain points for 
multicast, and how can we simplify it.



Thanks
Mankamana



---
Bruce Curtis 
bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
Certified NetAnalyst II701-231-8527
North Dakota State University

Re: Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[nanog]

I believe multicast is only used for IPTV

Multicast by itself does not reduce much bandwidth : that reduction is
purely based on the network design
If you place unicast nodes near your customers, multicast is effectively
unicast (just think about it) :)


On 08/08/2018 08:49 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG wrote:
> Hi Every one,
> Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet. From 
> discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in enterprise.  
> Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in network
> 
>   *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is multicast 
> traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic it would add 
> up?
>   *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to know 
> if there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy multicast.
> 
> 
> These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain points 
> for multicast, and how can we simplify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Mankamana
> 

Multicast traffic % in enterprise network ?

[Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) via NANOG]

Hi Every one,
Recently we had good discussion over multicast uses in public internet. From 
discussion, it was pointed out uses of multicast is more with in enterprise.  
Wanted to understand how much % multicast traffic present in network

  *   If there is any data which can provide what % of traffic is multicast 
traffic. And if multicast is removed, how much unicast traffic it would add up?
  *   Since this forum has people from deployment area, I would love to know if 
there is real deployment problems or its pain to deploy multicast.


These questions is to work / discussion in IETF to see what is pain points for 
multicast, and how can we simplify it.



Thanks
Mankamana