Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[Luca Salvatore]

Telstra Global (4637) are solid all around APAC

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:54 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG 
wrote:

> Nanog,
>
> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and
> I'm looking to cut them.  This was put in place before me.  I was informed
> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not
> sure that's the case.  My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put
> them on par with PCCW.  Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on
> all of them, same with pings to cloud providers.   Access to mainland is
> not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to
> known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>
> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong
> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
>
> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to
> eyeballs and internet.  I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC
> connectivity can be tricky.
>
> - Nanoguser99
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
>

RE: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[nanoguser99 via NANOG]

Eric Dugas,

I'm not seeing that, seems llike they do peer locally. These tests are Lumen 
but cogent was similar. I believe they peer locally with the Cogents\Lumens of 
the world. Looking at BGP.he.net AS9444 I found some HKT IPs and pinged from 
the Lumen looking glass


Hong Kong Telecommunications (HKT) Limited

Target: 120.88.245.3 with 64 data bytes Success rate sent/received = (1/1) 
packets
Round-Trip min/avg/max = 1ms/1ms/1ms

AS38819 - HKT GPRS network
HONGKONG CHINA Ping results for: 14.0.183.254 (14-0-183-254.static.pccw-hkt.com)

Target: 14.0.183.254 with 64 data bytes Success rate sent/received = (1/1) 
packets
Round-Trip min/avg/max = 2ms/2ms/2ms
=

The only remotely 'far' one was

===
Hong Kong Telecommunications (HKT) Limited Mass Internet

traceroute to 1.65.190.108 (1.65.190.108), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 gi0-0-0-18.221.rcr11.b061570-1.hkg02.atlas.cogentco.com (66.250.250.193) 
0.861 ms 0.879 ms
2 be3692.ccr21.hkg02.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.80.33) 1.079 ms 1.159 ms
3 be2414.rcr51.hkg01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.88.50) 1.772 ms 1.667 ms
4 pccw.hkg01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.140.66) 8.791 ms 3.131 ms
5 HundredGE0-3-0-0.br02.hkg08.pccwbtn.net (63.223.29.194) 3.234 ms 3.232 ms
6 csl.te0-1-0-14.br02.hkg08.pccwbtn.net (63.217.66.30) 3.290 ms 3.367 ms
7 * *
8 * *
9 * *
10 1-65-190-108.static.netvigator.com (1.65.190.108) 47.453 ms 47.441 ms
===

Cogent has similar results.

If anyone has access to IPs in HK and doesn't mind helping please ping from 
cogent or lumen LG.

Just want to ensure I'm not missing anything here in my analysis.

Thanks
- Nanoguser99

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 3:08 AM, David Guo  wrote:

> Eric, none of the carriers you mention in HK has local connection, other HK 
> ISPs will route to US if they don’t peer with you.
>
> Currently we are using NTT and Telstra, which has good connectivity in Asia 
> except mainland China.
>
> From: NANOG   On Behalf Of Eric Dugas 
> via NANOG
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 3:12 AM
> To: nanoguser99 
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong
>
> I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are 
> present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
>
> My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, 
> CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG  wrote:
>
>> Nanog,
>>
>> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and 
>> I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed 
>> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not 
>> sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put 
>> them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all 
>> of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a 
>> hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs 
>> in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>>
>> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong 
>> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
>>
>> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs 
>> and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC 
>> connectivity can be tricky.
>>
>> - Nanoguser99
>>
>> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[nanoguser99 via NANOG]

Raymond,

Thanks for the response. Would you say then any 'major proivder' is fine for 
HK? Based on my tests w\ Lumen everything seems fine. I'll check the other 
ASNs. My posts are not making it to the list. I've done the following tests. 
The only 'bad one' was net-navigator.



>> Thank you. Would you say it's fair to say that Lumen would be fine to reach 
>> the eyeballs based on the following I believe they peer locally with the 
>> Cogents\Lumens of the world. Looking at BGP.he.net AS9444 I found some HKT 
>> IPs and pinged from the Lumen looking glass
>>
>> 
>> Hong Kong Telecommunications (HKT) Limited
>>
>> Target: 120.88.245.3 with 64 data bytes Success rate sent/received = (1/1) 
>> packets
>> Round-Trip min/avg/max = 1ms/1ms/1ms
>>
>> AS38819 - HKT GPRS network
>> HONGKONG CHINA Ping results for:14.0.183.254 
>> (14-0-183-254.static.pccw-hkt.com)
>>
>> Target: 14.0.183.254 with 64 data bytesSuccess rate sent/received = (1/1) 
>> packets
>> Round-Trip min/avg/max = 2ms/2ms/2ms
>> =
>>
>> The only remotely 'far' one was
>>
>> ===
>> Hong Kong Telecommunications (HKT) Limited Mass Internet
>>
>> traceroute to 1.65.190.108 (1.65.190.108), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>> 1 gi0-0-0-18.221.rcr11.b061570-1.hkg02.atlas.cogentco.com (66.250.250.193) 
>> 0.861 ms 0.879 ms
>> 2 be3692.ccr21.hkg02.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.80.33) 1.079 ms 1.159 ms
>> 3 be2414.rcr51.hkg01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.88.50) 1.772 ms 1.667 ms
>> 4 pccw.hkg01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.140.66) 8.791 ms 3.131 ms
>> 5 HundredGE0-3-0-0.br02.hkg08.pccwbtn.net (63.223.29.194) 3.234 ms 3.232 ms
>> 6 csl.te0-1-0-14.br02.hkg08.pccwbtn.net (63.217.66.30) 3.290 ms 3.367 ms
>> 7 * *
>> 8 * *
>> 9 * *
>> 10 1-65-190-108.static.netvigator.com (1.65.190.108) 47.453 ms 47.441 ms
>> ===
>>
>> Cogent has similar results.
>>
>> If anyone has access to IPs in HK and doesn't mind helping please ping from 
>> cogent or lumen LG.
>>
>> Just want to ensure I'm not missing anything here in my analysis.
>>
>> Thanks
>> - Nanoguser99
>> 

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 1:01 PM, Raymond Leung 
 wrote:

> Hong Kong isn't that bad, PCCW Netvigator AS4760, HKBN AS9269, HGC AS9304 are 
> all announcing their customer route throughout HKIX
>
> HKBN is one of the largest operator on the market too, and most of the ISP 
> are willing to exchange traffic via IX
>
> Raymond Leung
> Senior Network Engineer
> JNCIE-SP #2456, MIET, MIEEE
> [Booking.com](https://www.booking.com/)
> Making it easier for everyone
> to experience the world.
>
> Mobile: +31629703060, +447490674066
> Tel: +31207094728
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:41 AM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>> I think the biggest difference between what the IP transit providers have 
>> described is that PCCW is also a major middle-mile and last-mile provider in 
>> Hong Kong. You'll find their 100Mbps to gigabit class end user service in 
>> apartments, condos and office buildings throughout the city.
>>
>> The non-HK based transit providers that would be in a top-40 CAIDA ASRANK 
>> size are generally not operators of last mile connectivity within the city.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 2:54 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nanog,
>>>
>>> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and 
>>> I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed 
>>> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not 
>>> sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put 
>>> them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all 
>>> of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a 
>>> hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known 
>>> IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>>>
>>> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong 
>>> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
>>>
>>> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs 
>>> and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC 
>>> connectivity can be tricky.
>>>
>>> - Nanoguser99
>>>
>>> Sent with 
>>> [ProtonMail](https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://protonmail.com/__;!!FzMMvhmfRQ!6BO0OIyDKS4mnx6jZWPywpDMkAoIHgyaluYjJIu7MiW9OJH_oWeQj4QqoMe5-ir0AWmH$)
>>>  Secure Email.

Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[Eric Kuhnke]

I think the biggest difference between what the IP transit providers have
described is that PCCW is also a major middle-mile and last-mile provider
in Hong Kong. You'll find their 100Mbps to gigabit class end user service
in apartments, condos and office buildings throughout the city.

The non-HK based transit providers that would be in a top-40 CAIDA ASRANK
size are generally *not* operators of last mile connectivity within the
city.



On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 2:54 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG 
wrote:

> Nanog,
>
> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and
> I'm looking to cut them.  This was put in place before me.  I was informed
> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not
> sure that's the case.  My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put
> them on par with PCCW.  Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on
> all of them, same with pings to cloud providers.   Access to mainland is
> not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to
> known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>
> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong
> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
>
> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to
> eyeballs and internet.  I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC
> connectivity can be tricky.
>
> - Nanoguser99
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
>

Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[Mehmet Akcin]

PCCW can be very competitive….. if you can find the right people and have
the volume. They are a lot easier to deal with (vs Telstra/NTT)

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 06:09 David Guo via NANOG  wrote:

> Eric, none of the carriers you mention in HK has local connection, other
> HK ISPs will route to US if they don’t peer with you.
>
>
>
> Currently we are using NTT and Telstra, which has good connectivity in
> Asia except mainland China.
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  * On Behalf Of *Eric
> Dugas via NANOG
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 18, 2021 3:12 AM
> *To:* nanoguser99 
> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org
> *Subject:* Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong
>
>
>
> I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA
> are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
>
> My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers,
> CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG 
> wrote:
>
> Nanog,
>
>
>
> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and
> I'm looking to cut them.  This was put in place before me.  I was informed
> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not
> sure that's the case.  My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put
> them on par with PCCW.  Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on
> all of them, same with pings to cloud providers.   Access to mainland is
> not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to
> known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>
>
>
> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong
> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
>
>
>
> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to
> eyeballs and internet.  I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC
> connectivity can be tricky.
>
>
>
> - Nanoguser99
>
>
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>
>
>
> --
Mehmet
+1-424-298-1903

RE: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[David Guo via NANOG]

Eric, none of the carriers you mention in HK has local connection, other HK 
ISPs will route to US if they don’t peer with you.

Currently we are using NTT and Telstra, which has good connectivity in Asia 
except mainland China.

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Eric Dugas 
via NANOG
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 3:12 AM
To: nanoguser99 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are 
present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.

My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs 
and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG 
mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote:
Nanog,

Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm 
looking to cut them.  This was put in place before me.  I was informed that 
PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's 
the case.  My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par 
with PCCW.  Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same 
with pings to cloud providers.   Access to mainland is not a hard requirement 
but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and 
Tanjin.

I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong 
carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.

I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and 
internet.  I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can 
be tricky.

- Nanoguser99

Sent with ProtonMail<https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.

Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[JASON BOTHE via NANOG]

PCCW / HKT are the main networks for eyeball  HKT ASs feed into AS3491 which is 
the international arm, PCCW global if you will. 

> On Dec 17, 2021, at 14:05, nanoguser99 via NANOG  wrote:
> 
> 
> Looking glass pings from Lumen to my gear behind PCCW = 1ms, immediate 
> handoff.   Looking glass pings from Lumen -> Google (216.239.38.120), 
> immediate handoff.  Some CDNs\cloud are 30 ms away, like you said Tokyo or 
> Singapore.
> 
> My main concern is the eyeball networks.  Is PCCW the main carrier for the 
> eyeball networks there or do they all peer in country for the most part. 
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> On Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 7:12 PM, Eric Dugas 
>>  wrote:
>> I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are 
>> present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
>> 
>> My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, 
>> CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG  
>>> wrote:
>>> Nanog,
>>> 
>>> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and 
>>> I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed 
>>> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not 
>>> sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put 
>>> them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all 
>>> of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a 
>>> hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known 
>>> IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>>> 
>>> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong 
>>> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street. 
>>> 
>>> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs 
>>> and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC 
>>> connectivity can be tricky.
>>> 
>>> - Nanoguser99
>>> 
>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>> 
> 

Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[nanoguser99 via NANOG]

Looking glass pings from Lumen to my gear behind PCCW = 1ms, immediate handoff. 
Looking glass pings from Lumen -> Google (216.239.38.120), immediate handoff. 
Some CDNs\cloud are 30 ms away, like you said Tokyo or Singapore.

My main concern is the eyeball networks. Is PCCW the main carrier for the 
eyeball networks there or do they all peer in country for the most part.

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 7:12 PM, Eric Dugas  
wrote:

> I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are 
> present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
>
> My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, 
> CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG  wrote:
>
>> Nanog,
>>
>> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and 
>> I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed 
>> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not 
>> sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put 
>> them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all 
>> of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a 
>> hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs 
>> in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>>
>> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong 
>> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
>>
>> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs 
>> and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC 
>> connectivity can be tricky.
>>
>> - Nanoguser99
>>
>> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[JASON BOTHE via NANOG]

Colt is a good option if you’re seeking wavelengths. For transit we use a mix 
of the other carriers, pccw included but we go through the wholesale side and 
not hkt which is the domestic arm of pccw and they are ridiculously expensive.  

> On Dec 17, 2021, at 13:13, Eric Dugas via NANOG  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are 
> present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
> 
> My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, 
> CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG  
>> wrote:
>> Nanog,
>> 
>> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and 
>> I'm looking to cut them.  This was put in place before me.  I was informed 
>> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not 
>> sure that's the case.  My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put 
>> them on par with PCCW.  Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all 
>> of them, same with pings to cloud providers.   Access to mainland is not a 
>> hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs 
>> in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>> 
>> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong 
>> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.  
>> 
>> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs 
>> and internet.  I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC 
>> connectivity can be tricky.
>> 
>> - Nanoguser99
>> 
>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>> 

Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[Eric Dugas via NANOG]

I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA
are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.

My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers,
CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG 
wrote:

> Nanog,
>
> Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and
> I'm looking to cut them.  This was put in place before me.  I was informed
> that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not
> sure that's the case.  My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put
> them on par with PCCW.  Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on
> all of them, same with pings to cloud providers.   Access to mainland is
> not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to
> known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
>
> I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong
> carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
>
> I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to
> eyeballs and internet.  I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC
> connectivity can be tricky.
>
> - Nanoguser99
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
>

Carrier Options in Hong Kong

[nanoguser99 via NANOG]

Nanog,

Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm 
looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW 
is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the 
case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with 
PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with 
pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just 
to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.

I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong 
carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.

I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and 
internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can 
be tricky.

- Nanoguser99

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.