Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-10-01 Thread Owen DeLong
If you write your code on to be IPv6 compliant, making the code support dual stack is a matter of making sure that the IPv6_V6ONLY socket option is false. Owen > On Sep 30, 2020, at 12:03 , Daniel Sterling wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:50 PM Josh Luthman > wrote: >> Based on packet

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-10-01 Thread Owen DeLong
> On Sep 30, 2020, at 11:41 , Daniel Sterling wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:47 PM Owen DeLong wrote: >> Games want to go peer-to-peer. > > That was true up until about 2012. > > As Martijn Schmidt noted, Activison contracts out to multiple managed > hosting companies to provide

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-30 Thread Daniel Sterling
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:09 PM Vincent Bernat wrote: > Not sure about that. To avoid cheaters, multiplayer games are likely to > be mediated by a server running the same game engine to manage state of > each player. Probably veering off topic for the list here, but yes -- the advantage to

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-30 Thread Vincent Bernat
❦ 30 septembre 2020 09:45 -07, Owen DeLong: > Games want to go peer-to-peer. Not sure about that. To avoid cheaters, multiplayer games are likely to be mediated by a server running the same game engine to manage state of each player. -- Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-30 Thread Daniel Sterling
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:50 PM Josh Luthman wrote: > Based on packet captures and customer experiences, that doesn't seem to be > the case. Aye, you're right I'm sure. Thank you for the correction. Where P2P does NOT come into play is: 1. on xbox 2. standard multiplayer 3. CoD games since at

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-30 Thread Josh Luthman
>From 2013 and on, all the call of duty games are managed-server-host-only for general multiplayer. You have to go well out of your way to do P2P FPS gaming recently -- at least with CoD. not sure about other games. Based on packet captures and customer experiences, that doesn't seem to be the

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-30 Thread Daniel Sterling
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:47 PM Owen DeLong wrote: > Games want to go peer-to-peer. That was true up until about 2012. As Martijn Schmidt noted, Activison contracts out to multiple managed hosting companies to provide servers across the globe. If you launch any recent call of duty game and hit

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-30 Thread Owen DeLong
Your VoIP and Video systems are all getting paid rather well to provide Rendezvous hosts that are capable of forwarding ALL traffic and are not all that sensitive to the additional latency involved in doing so. From some perspectives, this is even considered desirable as it simplifies the

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Matt Erculiani
Most games do implement a "minimum latency" where no matter how low your latency is, you'll always have at least 30ms or so (from what I've seen) to keep things fair for MOST broadband internet connections. So no, you cannot bring your laptop into the data center, [proverbially] plug directly

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Matthew Petach
...I'm guessing someone didn't read "Harrison Bergeron" in middle school, then? Crippling everyone down to the lowest common denominator is a wonderful recipe for creating a service or platform that *nobody* wants to use. If I connect through an AOL dialup account to an FPS gaming platform, you

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Matt Hoppes
ts)" mailto:li...@mtin.net>> *To: *"North American Network Operators' Group" mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 There are many things going on with gaming that makes

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Tom Beecher
tter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> -- >> *From: *"Justin Wilson (Li

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Alan Buxey
not just how it handles IPv4 - these things don't even do proper WiFi - meaning no happy joy for lots of students on campus where 802.1X wifi is provisioned alan

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Carlos M. Martinez
t;http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> -- *From: *"Justin Wilson (Lists)" *To: *"North American Network Operators' Group" *Sent: *Monday, Sep

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Seth Mattinen
On 9/27/20 18:33, Daniel Sterling wrote: It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and it wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support dual-stack. just a guess there Xbox

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Valdis Klētnieks said: > Does anybody have info from Microsoft or Sony on what their new consoles > are doing regarding IPv6? My informant has moved on and is out of the loop > regarding the PS5's software innards. The Xbox One supports IPv6, and I believe it did so at launch 7

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Tom Beecher
gt; > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > -- > *From: *"Tom Beecher" > *To: *"Mike Hammett" > *Cc: *"Justin Wilson (Lists)" , "North Ameri

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Matthew Petach
ot;Mike Hammett" > *Cc: *"Justin Wilson (Lists)" , "North American Network > Operators' Group" > *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 9:21:09 AM > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > > Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Valdis Klētnieks
On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 21:33:56 -0400, Daniel Sterling said: > It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's cuz > they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and it > wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support dual-stack. > just a

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett
k Operators' Group" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 9:21:09 AM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers? Much cheaper to just let all the game clients talk peer

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett
eremy Bresley" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:29:20 AM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 I'm outside of Tampa (18th largest MSA in the US). The two providers here, Spectrum (former Brighthouse area) and Frontier (bought out Verizon's FIOS offering) are both

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Martijn Schmidt via NANOG
6:21 To: Mike Hammett Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers? Much cheaper to just let all the game clients talk peer to peer

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Tom Beecher
Qv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > -- > *From: *"Justin Wilson (Lists)" > *To: *"North American Network Operators' Group" > *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > > There are many things

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Scott Morizot
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 8:30 AM Jeremy Bresley wrote: > I'm outside of Tampa (18th largest MSA in the US). The two providers > here, Spectrum (former Brighthouse area) and Frontier (bought out Verizon's > FIOS offering) are both IPv4 only (including on their SOHO/SMB offerings). > > So I'm

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Jeremy Bresley
swisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" *To: *"Mike Hammett" , "Daniel Sterling" *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:42:16

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett
oppes" To: "Justin Wilson (Lists)" , "Mike Hammett" Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:44:49 AM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 Because it's not universally supported, poorly thought through, and no backwards c

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett
oppes" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" , "Daniel Sterling" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:45:24 AM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 Yes No. On 9/28/20 8:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > Are non-ISP-provided ro

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Matt Hoppes
swisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" *To: *"Mike Hammett" , "Daniel Sterling" *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" *Sent: *Monday

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett
Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Matt Hoppes" To: "Mike Hammett" , "Daniel Sterling" Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:42:16 AM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Matt Hoppes
-- *From:*"Justin Wilson (Lists)" mailto:li...@mtin.net>> *To:*"North American Network Operators' Group" <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> *Sent:*Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM *Subject:*Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 There are many thing

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Matt Hoppes
w.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> *From: *"Daniel Sterling" *To: *"Mike Hammett" *Cc: *"Matt Hoppes" , "North American Network Operators' Group&q

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Jared Mauch
xchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> From: "Justin Wilson (Lists)" >> To: "North American Network Operators' Group" >> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM >> Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 >> >> There are

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Justin Wilson (Lists)
nel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > From: "Justin Wilson (Lists)" mailto:li...@mtin.net>> > To: "North American Network Operators' Group" <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM > Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > &g

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett
Lists)" To: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 There are many things going on with gaming that makes natted IPv4 an issue when it comes to consoles and gaming in general. When you break it down it m

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Justin Wilson (Lists)
/twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > From: "Matt Hoppes" <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett
American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 8:33:56 PM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question, At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to wo

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread Daniel Sterling
-- > *From: *"Matt Hoppes" > *To: *"Darin Steffl" > *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" > *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > > I understand that. But there’s a host

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread Mike Hammett
oppes" To: "Darin Steffl" Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not work - two devices trying to use U

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread Matt Hoppes
hat is your NAT type in your PS4? > > Jean > > From: NANOG On Behalf Of Matt > Hoppes > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 2:51 PM > To: i...@ddostest.me > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > &g

RE: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread info--- via NANOG
, September 27, 2020 2:51 PM To: i...@ddostest.me Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 Call of Duty seems to be especially problematic. On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:45 PM, info--- via NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org> > wrote:  Not every game ar

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread Matt Hoppes
From: NANOG On Behalf Of Matt > Hoppes > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 2:23 PM > To: Darin Steffl > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > > I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not work - > two

RE: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread info--- via NANOG
: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc. On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> >

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread William Herrin
On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 10:52 AM Matt Hoppes wrote: > I’m curious if anyone here knows why gaming consoles are so stupid when it > comes to IPv4? They're trying to give your salesmen an opportunity to upsell. "Oh you have an Z-Console? Those need a gaming enhanced IP address which we'll happily

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread Matt Hoppes
I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc. > On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl wrote: > >  > This isn't rocket science. > > Give each customer

Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread Darin Steffl
This isn't rocket science. Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on upnp, then they will have open NAT to play their game and host. On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if

Gaming Consoles and IPv4

2020-09-27 Thread Matt Hoppes
I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if anyone here knows why gaming consoles are so stupid when it comes to IPv4? We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have gaming consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their way