Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Hank Nussbacher via NANOG]

On 10/09/2020 15:16, Jared Mauch wrote:

Go Jared:
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/news/man-who-built-broadband-avoid-27717560

-Hank





On Sep 10, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Jared Brown  wrote:

I believe this belongs here:

Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXJgvy3mEg (YouTube video of NLnog 
presentation)
https://nlnog.net/static/live/nlnog_live_sep_2020_jared.pdf (slides for 
presentation)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24424910#24430901 (discussion on Hacker 
News with Jared participating)
https://washftth.com/ (project homepage)

I find this an interesting description of how to apply skills that we normally 
only use at work to solve connectivity issues at home. Quite timely too, as 
home connectivity is needed more than ever.


As my kids are in the other room on 4x zooms at once, the prior connection 
could not have survived the load with them and me working as well.

I’m working with the PC on giving another version of this talk (I want to 
provide more financial details) for an upcoming meeting.

Stay tuned to the NANOG Agenda :-)

- Jared

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Josh Luthman]

That very well could be.  We pushed/pulled about 2 miles with this stuff.
Took about a day.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 5:24 PM Jared Mauch  wrote:

> The pulling lube does not work well IMO, the blowing lube made a huge
> difference.
>
> - Jared
>
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
> >
> > I believe this is the stuff we used on our project:
> >
> https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm
>
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  wrote:
> > >
> > > Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the
> fiber through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the
> process relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the
> fiber.
> >
> > You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked well
> for me.
> >
> > - Jared
>
>

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Brandon Butterworth]

On Thu Sep 10, 2020 at 04:54:50PM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:
> When I read up about it, yes, pulling lube and blowing lube 
> are different and you'll get different results. Microduct 
> blowing lube is yet another difference.

Quite different. This is what we've used on Microduct

http://www.emtelle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/UK_DS_4400.pdf.
"Penn-Lube 9702A is a water based thixotropic lubricant which 
 reduces friction during installation of cable and sub-duct...
 Containing high viscosity silicone polymers and perfectly
 spherical microspheres"

it's not cheap (about $20 for 240ml) but worth it, our
longest single blow was just under 3km
https://twitter.com/BogonsNet/status/1281509965686018048

The project we did can be seen at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VOhTiSYChQ
https://balquhidder.net

More people should take control of their internet, we're
working on some more.

brandon

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Mike Hammett]

When I read up about it, yes, pulling lube and blowing lube are different and 
you'll get different results. Microduct blowing lube is yet another difference. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Jared Mauch"  
To: "Josh Luthman"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 4:24:55 PM 
Subject: Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch 

The pulling lube does not work well IMO, the blowing lube made a huge 
difference. 

- Jared 

> On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  
> wrote: 
> 
> I believe this is the stuff we used on our project: 
> https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm
>  
> 
> Josh Luthman 
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340 
> Direct: 937-552-2343 
> 1100 Wayne St 
> Suite 1337 
> Troy, OH 45373 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch  wrote: 
> 
> 
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  wrote: 
> > 
> > Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber 
> > through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the process 
> > relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the fiber. 
> 
> You need the conduit lube. The duraline summer blowing lube worked well for 
> me. 
> 
> - Jared 

RE: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[aaron1]

Yep, years ago, the telephone comms guys in the Marine Corps taught me (I was a 
data pc/network guy) the name “Snot”

 

-Aaron

 

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Brandon Svec
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:48 PM
To: NANOG 
Subject: Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

 

I’ve heard people call cable lube elephant snot, lol.





On Sep 10, 2020, at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote:

 

I believe this is the stuff we used on our project:
https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm
  


 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch mailto:ja...@puck.nether.net> > wrote:



> On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  <mailto:compuw...@gmail.com> > wrote:
> 
> Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber 
> through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the process 
> relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the fiber.

You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked well for me.

- Jared

 

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Jared Mauch]

The pulling lube does not work well IMO, the blowing lube made a huge 
difference.

- Jared

> On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> I believe this is the stuff we used on our project:
> https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm
>   
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch  wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  wrote:
> > 
> > Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber 
> > through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the process 
> > relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the fiber.
> 
> You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked well for 
> me.
> 
> - Jared

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Josh Luthman]

I really don't know how you guys jerk off an elephant but normally you just
empty it out of the bucket...

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 5:04 PM Andy Ringsmuth  wrote:

> I recall using that a couple decades ago, helping an electrician pull some
> circuits through our old office building. I had to put that stuff on the
> wires as he pulled them from the other end. “Just imagine you are jerking
> off an elephant” is how he told me to do it.
>
> 
> Andy Ringsmuth
> 5609 Harding Drive
> Lincoln, NE 68521-5831
> (402) 304-0083
> a...@andyring.com
>
> “Better even die free, than to live slaves.” - Frederick Douglas, 1863
>
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 3:48 PM, Brandon Svec 
> wrote:
> >
> > I’ve heard people call cable lube elephant snot, lol.
> >
> >> On Sep 10, 2020, at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I believe this is the stuff we used on our project:
> >>
> https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm
>
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the
> fiber through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the
> process relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the
> fiber.
> >>
> >> You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked
> well for me.
> >>
> >> - Jared
> >
>
>

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Andy Ringsmuth]

I recall using that a couple decades ago, helping an electrician pull some 
circuits through our old office building. I had to put that stuff on the wires 
as he pulled them from the other end. “Just imagine you are jerking off an 
elephant” is how he told me to do it.


Andy Ringsmuth
5609 Harding Drive
Lincoln, NE 68521-5831
(402) 304-0083
a...@andyring.com

“Better even die free, than to live slaves.” - Frederick Douglas, 1863

> On Sep 10, 2020, at 3:48 PM, Brandon Svec  wrote:
> 
> I’ve heard people call cable lube elephant snot, lol.
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2020, at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I believe this is the stuff we used on our project:
>> https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm
>>   
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  wrote:
>> > 
>> > Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber 
>> > through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the 
>> > process relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the 
>> > fiber.
>> 
>> You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked well for 
>> me.
>> 
>> - Jared
> 

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Brandon Svec]

I’ve heard people call cable lube elephant snot, lol.

> On Sep 10, 2020, at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> I believe this is the stuff we used on our project:
> https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm
>  
> 
>   
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch  > wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber 
> > through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the process 
> > relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the fiber.
> 
> You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked well for 
> me.
> 
> - Jared

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Josh Luthman]

I believe this is the stuff we used on our project:
https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools-accessories/wire-conduit-installation/ideal-regyellow-77-wire-pulling-lubricant-5-gallon/31-355/p-133962344-c-6458.htm


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jared Mauch  wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  wrote:
> >
> > Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber
> through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the process
> relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the fiber.
>
> You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked well
> for me.
>
> - Jared

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Jared Mauch]

> On Sep 10, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Jared Geiger  wrote:
> 
> Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber 
> through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the process 
> relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the fiber.

You need the conduit lube.  The duraline summer blowing lube worked well for me.

- Jared

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Jared Geiger]

Another Jared with a question. What method did you use to blow the fiber
through the conduit? You mentioned you had trouble figuring out the process
relating to lubrication and building a contraption to blow the fiber.

~Jared Geiger

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM Jared Mauch  wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Jared Brown  wrote:
> >
> > I believe this belongs here:
> >
> > Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXJgvy3mEg (YouTube video of NLnog
> presentation)
> > https://nlnog.net/static/live/nlnog_live_sep_2020_jared.pdf (slides for
> presentation)
> > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24424910#24430901 (discussion on
> Hacker News with Jared participating)
> > https://washftth.com/ (project homepage)
> >
> > I find this an interesting description of how to apply skills that we
> normally only use at work to solve connectivity issues at home. Quite
> timely too, as home connectivity is needed more than ever.
>
> As my kids are in the other room on 4x zooms at once, the prior connection
> could not have survived the load with them and me working as well.
>
> I’m working with the PC on giving another version of this talk (I want to
> provide more financial details) for an upcoming meeting.
>
> Stay tuned to the NANOG Agenda :-)
>
> - Jared

Re: Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Jared Mauch]

> On Sep 10, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Jared Brown  wrote:
> 
> I believe this belongs here:
> 
> Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXJgvy3mEg (YouTube video of NLnog 
> presentation)
> https://nlnog.net/static/live/nlnog_live_sep_2020_jared.pdf (slides for 
> presentation)
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24424910#24430901 (discussion on Hacker 
> News with Jared participating)
> https://washftth.com/ (project homepage)
> 
> I find this an interesting description of how to apply skills that we 
> normally only use at work to solve connectivity issues at home. Quite timely 
> too, as home connectivity is needed more than ever.

As my kids are in the other room on 4x zooms at once, the prior connection 
could not have survived the load with them and me working as well.

I’m working with the PC on giving another version of this talk (I want to 
provide more financial details) for an upcoming meeting.

Stay tuned to the NANOG Agenda :-)

- Jared

Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch

[Jared Brown]

I believe this belongs here:

Getting Fiber to My Town by Jared Mauch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXJgvy3mEg (YouTube video of NLnog 
presentation)
https://nlnog.net/static/live/nlnog_live_sep_2020_jared.pdf (slides for 
presentation)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24424910#24430901 (discussion on Hacker 
News with Jared participating)
https://washftth.com/ (project homepage)

I find this an interesting description of how to apply skills that we normally 
only use at work to solve connectivity issues at home. Quite timely too, as 
home connectivity is needed more than ever.

Highlights:
- location: just outside of Ann Arbor
- no fixed broadband since 2002 -> build own network
- pre-wire neighbors with fiber drops and feed them off WISP first
- lots of work to sign up customers, having to resort to snailmail to reach all
- 70% of homes passed signed up
- Have ASN, get IPv6 and IPv4 allocation, multihome and connect to local IXP
- purchase equipment: fusion splicer, OTDR, materials, directional drill(!)
- hire contractors, deal with all manner of problems, theft, stop work orders, 
unbudgeted costs, unmarked/badly marked utilities, hitting (own) utilities
- build own fiber blower(!) for blowing in fiber in ducts
- splice, OTDR, resplice, schedule installs ... which don't always go to plan
- Upstream very helpful, offered a Cisco 6500 as CPE, however respectfuly 
declined and went with Arista
- Link up! Network is now live with 17 subscribers hooked up. More waiting to 
be connected
- Mixed Active Ethernet and GPON
- latency drops from 30 ms to 8 ms, bandwidth from 20-30M to 730M, total commit 
1.5G on 10G port, plans from 50M to 500M
- SPAM! IPv4 brokers and the usual unsolicited contacts from bottom of the 
baller IP transit providers
- Costs: $126k in 2020, $95k contractors, $32k materials and equipment. Total 
outlay ~$150k + years of sweat equity. Important to spread out costs over 
longer period of time to be able to afford. Offset costs by using pre-pay model 
(Can pay $5,000 up-front and receive $50 credit for 100 months)

All in all it was an excellent presentation. I only wish Jared had spent some 
more time on how he had to become a telco and how this got him better access to 
the public right of way. Of course, some more details on his directional boring 
and some nice video of him running the drill would have been a cherry on top :)

I'd like to congratulate Jared on lighting up his network and wish him success 
in running it. I did a similar build almost twenty years ago and regret I 
didn't have the forethought to document the effort better then. Not that there 
was a YouTube to put it all on then :)



You can find the other presentations from NLnog live September 2020 at 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVz78FbsOJ6v6xb6S2GpvWQ



Jared, not the Mauch one