Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
fwiw we have v6 transit from internap in metro atlanta. setup was drama-free. up until about 6 months ago it was offered on a non-production basis and only as a tunnel, now it's dual stacked to our customer edge. joel On 2/4/11 7:05 AM, Scott Helms wrote: We have been working diligently for more than 6 months to try and get a /56 routed to one of our offices in metro Atlanta. The carrier in question is a Tier 1 as well as being one of the old telecom names. I have the entire chain of emails documenting the carrier's struggles with internal process and technical issues. We are currently waiting for a new edge router to be ready to transfer our existing circuits to. Not that it matters but we were also told that we would be moved from a Cisco to a Juniper. Once I realized how much of a struggle that was turning into I contacted some of our other providers (a mix of Tier 1 2 ISPs and collocation providers) as of this moment none of them (though some seem close) are actually prepared to deliver IPv6 connectivity where we need it despite some of them already touting preparedness. What I think is worth remembering is that there are a _lot_ of moving parts to get right to actually route an IPv6 block down a connection. Some of those parts are technical like making sure an edge router that may have been in place for years can handle IPv6 traffic _and_ that addition won't cause a CPU or other issue on the specific platform you're looking at. Some of the others are simply business process pieces like making sure contracts, internal and external documentation, and work flow that need to be updated. TLDR version, marketing often fails to reflect reality :) On 2/3/2011 10:04 PM, Franck Martin wrote: The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. Is that bull? I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as part of their products? It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one.
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Peter Lothberg r...@stupi.se wrote: ... (My mother has had IPv6 since 2007, and she lives in the boonies!) Just now catching up...and don't take this wrong way, Peter, but your mother has more bandwidth and better connectivity than many countries (and some continents!) do. :-P http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2007-07-19-swedish-woman-fast-internet_N.htm *had to fight back the urge to turn it into a 'yo mamma' joke...* ^_^; Matt
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: I'll start.. Hurricane Electric Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit on request. Layer42 Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit on request. Owen I'll second that--I've had native v6 connectivity with Layer42 at home, with a secondary path via HE tunnelbroker via a secondary physical path for many, many moons, and have had no complaints. For those with smaller-sized connectivity needs, it's likely you'll have better success getting v6 connectivity from a tier-2 provider, as there's less non-v6- compliant hardware and software that needs to be taken into consideration. There's also likely to be some level of impedance mismatch between the upgrade priority for high-bandwidth-customer gear and low-bandwidth-customer gear at large-sized ISPs, which may relegate you to a slower deployment scheduled than if you bring the question up with your local tier 2 provider. Matt
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Frank Bulk wrote: I'm not sure what you mean -- once the ISP identifies CPE that works on their network, couldn't early adopters who are interested in the technology be pointed to a short list? Frank -Original Message- From: Cutler James R [mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:00 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6 All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this IPv6 thing. Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop. Would if att (and others) would support IPv6 (via dedicated, residential or even cellular). Where I am, all contact people I have spoken to don't have a clue. The best I got was call back late summer and we'll know something) Their residential and cellular folks couldn't even spell IPv6. Tom
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: The problem is conversations like this: ATT Customer Service: ATT uVerse, how can I help you? Customer: Yes, I have uVerse service and I'd like to get IPv6. ATT Customer Service: I pea vee what? Is this a prank call? Owen The ATT cellular folks respond... ATT: ATT Wireless. My name is and I'm here to help User: My iPhone web browser can't reach sites like ipv6.google.com via your cellular network but it can over my wifi at home. ATT: So you are having problems with your uVerse wireless connection? ... after escalating to L2 support ATT: So we will start be reseting your iPhone and then configure it for data access ...after 45 minutes... ATT: Are you sure the website is valid? Let me check that website on my desktop here Well, thats the problem! http://ipv6.google.com/ doesn't exist. I can't get to it via my desktop here at support. You need to use www instead of ipv6 and everything will be fine. Is there anything else I can help you with today?
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Cameron Byrne wrote: T-mobile USA has a nationwide ipv6 beta. You can google it. Regarding iphone, its more an iPhone issue than anything else Nope its ATT. My iPhone works fine on IPv6. I connect wifi at home and can go anywhere but on on ATT wireless. Tom
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On 2/10/11 7:42 AM, TR Shaw wrote: On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Cameron Byrne wrote: T-mobile USA has a nationwide ipv6 beta. You can google it. Regarding iphone, its more an iPhone issue than anything else Nope its ATT. My iPhone works fine on IPv6. I connect wifi at home and can go anywhere but on on ATT wireless. Your iphone supports v6 in the operating system that runs the user facing side of it. It's baseband radio controller (with a seperate processor and operating system) does not support v6 and thus the cellular side of the device cannot. Tom
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, david raistrick wrote: Amazon AWS - No. But I'm asking again, that's a few months old. To follow up on this: We are investigating IP v6 but, unfortunately, have no plans that are available for sharing at present -- david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
RE: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
I'm not sure what you mean -- once the ISP identifies CPE that works on their network, couldn't early adopters who are interested in the technology be pointed to a short list? Frank -Original Message- From: Cutler James R [mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:00 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6 All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this IPv6 thing. Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop. James R. Cutler james.cut...@consultant.com My ISP can't answer the question.
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
The problem is conversations like this: ATT Customer Service: ATT uVerse, how can I help you? Customer: Yes, I have uVerse service and I'd like to get IPv6. ATT Customer Service: I pea vee what? Is this a prank call? Owen On Feb 9, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: I'm not sure what you mean -- once the ISP identifies CPE that works on their network, couldn't early adopters who are interested in the technology be pointed to a short list? Frank -Original Message- From: Cutler James R [mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:00 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6 All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this IPv6 thing. Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop. James R. Cutler james.cut...@consultant.com My ISP can't answer the question.
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
Original Message Subject: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6 From: Franck Martin fra...@genius.com To: nanog@nanog.org Date: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:04:14 PM The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. Is that bull? I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as part of their products? It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one. We've been checking with our two regional upstreams and the answer seems to vary between 'not yet...', 'testing...', 'we're planning...' etc. I've been checking with my technical contacts, vs sales people. Perhaps if there was a drive from the sales perspective I could get more traction - money talks. In the mean time, we've setup a tunnel with HE. At least our network will be tested and ready to go whenever native transit is available. --Blake
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this IPv6 thing. Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop. James R. Cutler james.cut...@consultant.com My ISP can't answer the question.
RE: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
Here's a chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_IPv6_support_by_major_transit_providers Frank -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:16 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6 On 2/4/2011 06:13, Jack Bates wrote: I waited years and finally turned up a transit to L3 for additional bandwidth (had to wait for GE support from the other 2, of which 1 still can't give me a GE) and luckily native v6. Within 30 days I should have a cogent 10G, and I hear I'll get v6 there as well. Does anyone know how partitioned Cogent is these days? ~Seth
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
Hi Franck, On 2/4/11 4:04 AM, Franck Martin wrote: The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. Is that bull? I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as part of their products? There is a list of LIRs (ISPs) in RIPE NCC service region that have some aspects of IPv6 sorted out: - got address space - registered route6 in Routing Registry - got reverse DNS delegation - and are visible in ris.ripe.net If they have all 4 stars, they are listed here (per country) http://ipv6ripeness.ripe.net That still does not mean that they are offering IPv6 to their customers, but it is a good indication. I hope this helps, Vesna (IPv6 Ripeness goddess ;-)
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On 2/3/2011 9:54 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: The major national provider is supposed to be swapping out equipment any day now in order to support IPv6. The regional is claiming that their upstreams do not have IPv6 support yet. Their upstream providers certainly do have IPv6, but I do not know if they are not offering it to their downstream ISP customers. I don't know, but as a company that manages the internet operations for numerous ISPs, and needs to have full monitoring capability for said customers, it is frustrating not to have native IPv6. I waited years and finally turned up a transit to L3 for additional bandwidth (had to wait for GE support from the other 2, of which 1 still can't give me a GE) and luckily native v6. Within 30 days I should have a cogent 10G, and I hear I'll get v6 there as well. I'm still waiting for v6 on the original 2, but I can live with what I have. Jack
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On 2/4/2011 06:13, Jack Bates wrote: I waited years and finally turned up a transit to L3 for additional bandwidth (had to wait for GE support from the other 2, of which 1 still can't give me a GE) and luckily native v6. Within 30 days I should have a cogent 10G, and I hear I'll get v6 there as well. Does anyone know how partitioned Cogent is these days? ~Seth
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On 2/4/2011 07:05, Scott Helms wrote: TLDR version, marketing often fails to reflect reality :) My experience with trying to get a circuit turned up with Verizon boiled down to two things: 1) Failure to meet the standards of my existing IPv6 connections in carrying PI /48 (apparently now changed). 2) Failure to home the circuit on a router that supported IPv6. Month after month they would keep placing it to an IPv4-only router and I would refuse to accept it until it was moved to an IPv6 capable router. It never happened. They said they could do it, but couldn't figure out how. ~Seth
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been coming soon for about a year and a half. I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them? Thanks, Ryan Wilkins
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins r...@deadfrog.net wrote: IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been coming soon for about a year and a half. I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them? Thanks, Ryan Wilkins Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali, GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia. -- Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins r...@deadfrog.net wrote: IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been coming soon for about a year and a half. I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them? Thanks, Ryan Wilkins Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali, GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia. -- Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc Done as in it is complete and working? Or done as in you gave up trying? -Randy
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Feb 4, 2011, at 4:29 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins r...@deadfrog.net wrote: IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been coming soon for about a year and a half. I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them? Thanks, Ryan Wilkins Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali, GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia. -- Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc Done as in it is complete and working? Or done as in you gave up trying? Speaking as the NTT (2914) people, i'm sure it's working. If it's not, they should phone support. IPv6 is a production service with production support. It would also break a fair amount of internal stuff if our IPv6 was not working properly. - Jared
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
I'll start.. Hurricane Electric Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit on request. Layer42 Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit on request. Owen Disclaimer: While I work at HE, I'm speaking for my house, AS1734 in this case. On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:15 AM, david raistrick wrote: On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Randy Carpenter wrote: IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been coming soon for about a year and a half. Can we start naming names and locations for both sides of the answer? My last v6 queries are a few years out of date, so no point in sharing them. Well, I take that back. Amazon AWS - No. But I'm asking again, that's a few months old. -- david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
how do the routes they offer compare? On Feb 4, 2011 2:38 PM, chip chip.g...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins r...@deadfrog.net wrote: IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been coming soon for about a year and a half. I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them? Thanks, Ryan Wilkins Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali, GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia. -- Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On 2/4/2011 7:17 PM, Anthony Pardini wrote: how do the routes they offer compare? Speaking generically, everyone's routes suck. It's also not a fully fair comparison of reachability. You can see my network from HE and Level3, but if see me through Level3 without the use of a tunnel, it is probably the better path (which is why I prepend out the tunnel to HE). On the other hand, there are cases where HE is better connectivity, even with the horrid tunnel. Jack
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Franck Martin wrote: Where can I get more information? There's some survey data related to this topic presented in the latest Worldwide Infrastructure Security Report, available at http://www.arbornetworks.com/report. --- Roland Dobbins rdobb...@arbor.net // http://www.arbornetworks.com The basis of optimism is sheer terror. -- Oscar Wilde
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
This seems ironic, given the number of ISPs I've heard say There's no customer demand. --Richard On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Franck Martin fra...@genius.com wrote: The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. Is that bull? I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as part of their products? It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one.
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Franck Martin wrote: The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. I know of a few regional ISPs that don't (yet) support IPv6. As far as carriers go, some seem to support it readily, and others seem like they're being dragged into it kicking and screaming. With the IPv4 well running dry in some sense, the people who aren't supporting it yet will have to realize sooner or later that they're swimming against the tide. It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one. In some organizations, that's an organizational problem. In others, it just means you got the wrong salesdroid... jms
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On 02/03/2011 05:04 PM, Franck Martin wrote: The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. Is that bull? I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as part of their products? It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one. I've just been trying to persuade our upstream provider that they can actually get IPv6 addresses. They seem to be operating under the belief that they can only get IPv6 addresses once they're running out of IPv4 before going through the usual justification business. It seems bizarre that they've specifically gone to the extent of testing and changing their infrastructure to ensure it's fully IPv6 capable, yet not go all the way and actually get a range or poll customers to find out if they're interested in one. I sent them this link : https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv6_initial_alloc.html and brought their attention to point 1. Yet to hear back from them.. Paul
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Justin M. Streiner strei...@cluebyfour.org wrote: On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Franck Martin wrote: The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. I know of a few regional ISPs that don't (yet) support IPv6. As far as carriers go, some seem to support it readily, and others seem like they're being dragged into it kicking and screaming. With the IPv4 well running dry in some sense, the people who aren't supporting it yet will have to realize sooner or later that they're swimming against the tide. 1) in which city you exist 2) in which city does IPV6 support exist for the carrier(s) you choose to do business with 3) can you get your sales-droid to actually sleep eye-pee-vee-six and sell it to you? how many times, for the simple case, has someone piped up on nanog (here) about VZB and their attempts to find someone with a clue about getting ipv6 enabled? (I can easily count 10 in the last ~4 years) The same goes for ATT and L3... I believe all of these carriers (and NTT since I see Jared responding as well) have v6 capabilities, they may hide SOME of their issues in marketting-speak: Oh, we have that available in 75% of our pops(*) (* in south-east oozbekistan) or We offer ipv6 to the customers of our Mananged Internet Services network(*) (* wholesale internet is not currently able to signup/route ipv6) Asking straight, clear, concise questions of your sales driod, finding his management when he's unable to answer satisfactorily, and parsing the answers closely is your only way forward. (I think) -Chris It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one. In some organizations, that's an organizational problem. In others, it just means you got the wrong salesdroid... jms
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Franck Martin wrote: The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. Is that bull? I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as part of their products? It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one. I can provide anecdotal feedback on this. When we did v6 on our network - we did it to full v4 parity. I.e. if we offer v4 / HSRP redundancy / BGP full table, etc in a given site, we need to be able to do the same with v6. We acheived that. At this point I had a decent v6 network, but was isolated from the world. I had to talk to upstreams. In a nutshell, it was non-trivial. The upstreams in question will remain nameless to protect the guilty, but they are all who some would call 'tier 1'. The common themes were: - Hmm, don't know our process for that, let me send emails and 'reach out' and get back to you. - We can do it, but we have to home you to a different router. This will be a provisioning exercise and you will get new /30 (/126, etc) and new circuit ID. So it was far from simply adding v6 to our existing circuit(s) and another BGP session. It has taken months. I couldn't quite wait that long so I did a tunnel w/ BGP to Hurricane and got it up in a matter of days. At that point, at least I could traceroute somewhere :) We are just now finishing up getting native on our transit circuits. -- Brandon Applegate - CCIE 10273 PGP Key fingerprint: 7407 DC86 AA7B A57F 62D1 A715 3C63 66A1 181E 6996 SH1-0151. This is the serial number, of our orbital gun.
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been coming soon for about a year and a half. One is a very major national provider, one is a regional which is connected to numerous national carriers. The major national provider is supposed to be swapping out equipment any day now in order to support IPv6. The regional is claiming that their upstreams do not have IPv6 support yet. Their upstream providers certainly do have IPv6, but I do not know if they are not offering it to their downstream ISP customers. I don't know, but as a company that manages the internet operations for numerous ISPs, and needs to have full monitoring capability for said customers, it is frustrating not to have native IPv6. -Randy
Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
So it was far from simply adding v6 to our existing circuit(s) and another BGP session. It has taken months. You don't need a new BGP session to turn on IPv6, you just need to enable IPv6 NLRI on your V4 session.. So, in theory your upstream can enable IPv6 on their side and then wait until you are ready.. It helps to have a IPv6 address on the link, but it does not need to carry the the BGP session over IPv6.. This is a feature that also simplifies your IBGP.. -P (My mother has had IPv6 since 2007, and she lives in the boonies!)
