Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Ryan Gard]

To offer some closure on this, after digging up the NOC contact and sending
them a lengthy eMail detailing the issue and the ip blocks in question,
they were quick to resolve the issue and get the clients up and rolling
again.

Thanks again for everyone's insight.

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Use cdnet...@netflix.com
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 PM, Ryan Gard  wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of
>> this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who
>> are
>> unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message
>> advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP
>> blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Ryan Gard
>>
>
>


-- 
Ryan Gard

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Mark Andrews]

In message 
, Chris 
Knipe writes:
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> > There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so
> > many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
> 
> Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service
> provider don't support IPv6.  And yes, that is unfortunately reality.   If
> you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world,
> unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality.

$CPE << $TV and CPE are easily replaced with one that supports IPv6
even if it is only via a tunnel initially while you wait for the
ISP to deliver IPv6 natively.

So requesting IPv6 support in the TV isn't meaningless.  The TV
will also most probably still be in use when the ISP finally delivers
IPv6.

Having the devices in the home support IPv6 before the ISP does is
how we get 50+% IPv6 traffic the moment the ISP switches on IPv6 /
CPE is replaced with one that supports IPv6.

The world is waiting for the ISP's to get off their collective
backsides and deliver IPv6.

> Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6
> is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4.  Sad,
> but unfortunately, true.

It will only be years if the ISP's let it be years.  Your cell
phones support IPv6, your desktop/laptop supports IPv6, increasing
numbers of TVs, game devices, printers all support IPv6.  If random
IoT doesn't support IPv6 DON'T BUY IT and complain to the sales
person that it doesn't support IPv6.  Getting IPv6 support doesn't
cost anymore, it just requires one to be a little choosy.

> --
> Chris.
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:46:33 +0100, Bacon Zombie said:
> Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?

Specific data points:  The PS/3 and PS/4 consoles do *not* do so.  My Vizio TV
also apparently does not - it *does* dhcp for an ipv4, but does naught
that produces an entry in 'ip neighbor show' on my router on the ipv6 side.

I found a Microsoft document that says the Xbox/360 does not do IPv6, but
the Xbox One does: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/network/hh994905.aspx

That's a lot of legacy consoles.




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Description: PGP signature

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 28, 2016, at 09:45 , Chris Knipe  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
>> There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so
>> many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
>> 
>> 
> Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service
> provider don't support IPv6.  And yes, that is unfortunately reality.   If
> you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world,
> unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality.

Not so much as you claim…

It’s true that Africa, middle east, and Russia are in a  horrible state.
It’s true that India IPv6 deployment is non-existant.
However, Canada, Japan, Indonesia and Malaysia have significant
IPv6 deployment.

China has some (thought not as much as we would all like.

Ecuador is doing quite well.

Peru has good penetration, but their IPv6 is about as reliable as their IPv4.

> Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6
> is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4.  Sad,
> but unfortunately, true.

I think that the adoption rate in those places will accelerate rather quickly
as the true cost of maintaining IPv4 becomes more visible to them.

In the US, for example, there were several small deployments at first,
then, after trials and such, Comcast and several other large providers went
from very little deployment to general availability to nearly 100% of their
customers within a few months.

I don’t see any reason that can’t happen elsewhere. Especially as the path
to IPv6 deployment is becoming more and more well known and more and more
experience is shared among operators and technicians.

Owen

RE: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Chris Adams (IT)]

If you feel that Google's IPV6 statistics are accurate, this provides a view:

https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption&tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption

Japan: 9.49%
South Korea: 1.96%

Both of which are significantly better than North Korea's adoption rate of 0%


Chris


-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Steve Mikulasik
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 4:14 PM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: RE: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

How is IPv6 adoption in Korean and Japan? Maybe that would push these vendors 
to care more if it impacted them where they lived.



-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Scott Morizot
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:15 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

On Jan 28, 2016 12:27, "Mikael Abrahamsson"  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:
>
>> Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
>
>
> I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz
> wifi, I
believe the model is 3 years old.
>

I must have just lucked out on the Sony and LG TVs I bought (2014 and 2015). 
IPv6 was not one of my purchasing criteria. It was just a pleasant surprise.

I could have sworn the two Samsung TVs I set up for extended family last year 
had IPv6 options, but they didn't have v6 running on their home networks, so I 
didn't pay that much attention.

An odd coincidence, though, especially if most brands/models still don't 
support v6.

Scott



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Steve Mikulasik]

How is IPv6 adoption in Korean and Japan? Maybe that would push these vendors 
to care more if it impacted them where they lived. 



-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Scott Morizot
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:15 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson 
Cc: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

On Jan 28, 2016 12:27, "Mikael Abrahamsson"  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:
>
>> Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
>
>
> I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz 
> wifi, I
believe the model is 3 years old.
>

I must have just lucked out on the Sony and LG TVs I bought (2014 and 2015). 
IPv6 was not one of my purchasing criteria. It was just a pleasant surprise.

I could have sworn the two Samsung TVs I set up for extended family last year 
had IPv6 options, but they didn't have v6 running on their home networks, so I 
didn't pay that much attention.

An odd coincidence, though, especially if most brands/models still don't 
support v6.

Scott

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Scott Morizot]

On Jan 28, 2016 12:27, "Mikael Abrahamsson"  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:
>
>> Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
>
>
> I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz wifi, I
believe the model is 3 years old.
>

I must have just lucked out on the Sony and LG TVs I bought (2014 and
2015). IPv6 was not one of my purchasing criteria. It was just a pleasant
surprise.

I could have sworn the two Samsung TVs I set up for extended family last
year had IPv6 options, but they didn't have v6 running on their home
networks, so I didn't pay that much attention.

An odd coincidence, though, especially if most brands/models still don't
support v6.

Scott

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Owen DeLong wrote:

I believe IPv6 support will be coming to Apple TV soon. I don’t know 
what the plans (if any) are at TiVO. I’m overdue to hammer on them 
again.


Apple TV has had support for IPv6, at least my ATV3 has that. Enough 
support to confuse the hell out of Netflix GeoIP when some connections 
came from a swedish IPv4 address and some came from HE IPv6 space that 
geoIPed to the US for some reason. This was 6+ months ago. I had my space 
"fixed" by means of someone reporting it manually to their GeoIP provider 
which seems to have fixed Netflix as well. Haven't had any problems since.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 28, 2016, at 05:46 , Bacon Zombie  wrote:
> 
> Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
> 
Sadly, hardly any so far. A few models from Sony is all so far to the best
of my knowledge. However, there is effort continuing on that front and my
hat’s off to JJB from Comcast for his effective efforts in this regard.

I’ve made some efforts and ARIN has made several efforts as well.

The situation is slowly getting better.

I believe IPv6 support will be coming to Apple TV soon. I don’t know
what the plans (if any) are at TiVO. I’m overdue to hammer on them
again.

> On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe"  > wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> >
> > Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an
> > ISP and you’re not
> > allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem
> > rather than the solution.
> >
> >
> Sure.  Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers
> actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.

If you are subscribing to transit providers that don’t provide IPv6, then you
should be doing something about that. It’s not like there are no transit 
providers
in ZA that support IPv6. I know for a fact that at least Liquid can deliver
IPv6 there. I suspect there are others as well.

> So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching.  There are HUGE obstacles in huge
> parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.

Such as? The only way this gets better is if we actually start taking actions
to knock those obstacles down. I’ve done that in lots of places. I’ll continue
to do so where I can.

There are huge obstacles coming to continuing to use IPv4, too. The difference
is that we _CAN_ overcome the obstacles to IPv6 deployment. IPv4 has no such
hope.

> Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an
> solution at all I'm afraid.

IPv6 doesn’t solve everything. It solves the shortage of addresses and allows
us to side-step the problems with IPv4 CGN and certain other issues that
arise as a result of address shortages in IPv4.

I’ve never suggested that IPv6 is a solution to anything other than this 
specific
set of problems. However, the set of problems being discussed in this thread 
does
seem to specifically relate to that particular issue.

Owen

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016, Scott Morizot wrote:


Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?


I just checked a Samsung "smart TV", it's new enough to have 5GHz wifi, I 
believe the model is 3 years old.


http://specsen.com/televisions-samsung/samsung-ue55es6535/

There is no sight of any IPv6 anything in the setup menus, it only 
displays IPv4 information etc. It's smart enough to support Skype, Youtube 
and so on, but not smart enough to support IPv6.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Scott Morizot]

Well, I live in the US and this is a North American specific list (NANOG)
and IPv6 is the resolution of those issues for us. I'm not particularly
familiar with the state of networking in the rest of the world, so have no
idea how much of an issue it is for them.

And yes, TVs stick around for a long time, but Smart TV (the kind that does
its own streaming) is relatively new category. I haven't personally
encountered one that doesn't do IPv6. I'm sure there are some models that
don't, but I'm wondering if there's any actual data available on that
question.
On Jan 28, 2016 11:46, "Chris Knipe"  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> > There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so
> > many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
> >
> >
> Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service
> provider don't support IPv6.  And yes, that is unfortunately reality.   If
> you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world,
> unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality.
>
> Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6
> is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4.  Sad,
> but unfortunately, true.
>
> --
> Chris.
>

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Chris Knipe]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so
> many TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware.
>
>
Well the TV is also meaningless if the CPE, and (at the very least) service
provider don't support IPv6.  And yes, that is unfortunately reality.   If
you look beyond the US and EU, and maybe Brazil, the rest of the world,
unfortunately, is FAR from IPv6 adoption, and that *is* reality.

Hence my initial comments... It's going to be many more years, before IPv6
is the "fix" for any real problems currently experienced with IPv4.  Sad,
but unfortunately, true.

--
Chris.

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Mike Hammett]

There's little reason to buy a newer TV more than every 5 - 10 years, so many 
TVs will be stranded until (if) they have some unifying firmware. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Todd Crane"  
To: "Scott Morizot"  
Cc: "NANOG list"  
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 11:05:52 AM 
Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked? 

If we are still talking about Netflix issues, eventually many of the issues 
will sort themselves out. As more and more "smart" devices are IPv6 
enabled, IPv4 only devices will become rarer and rarer. Thus the CGNAT 
pools will be shared by less and less accounts. 

Then again... we may run into the issue Apple ran into with the iPads. They 
made iPads such that there was no good reason to upgrade. Now 5+ years 
later, you have a lot of original iPads running around. Imagine the issues 
if EoL'ed and EoS'ed those iPads. 

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Scott Morizot  wrote: 

> On Jan 28, 2016 08:21, "Mark Tinka"  wrote: 
> > On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote: 
> > 
> > > Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box? 
> > 
> > The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on 
> > the small sample I did in 2015. 
> 
> I'm curious how you conducted this sample. I happened to have set up a 
> number of Smart TVs at home and for extended family over the past couple of 
> years. They've all supported IPv6 out of the box. It's not a 'feature' any 
> of them listed on their feature list. It was just part of their networking. 
> My home is IPv6 enabled and my TVs are running it just fine. 
> 
> My personal, purely anecdotal experience is limited to Sony, Samsung, and 
> LG smart TVs. But that's a much larger than simply 'non-zero' segment of 
> the smart TV market. And smart TVs as a category aren't all that old. 
> 
> Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6? 
> 
> Scott 
> 

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Roland Dobbins]

On 29 Jan 2016, at 0:05, Crane, Todd wrote:

> Imagine the issues if EoL'ed  and EoS'ed those iPads.

Um, I think they are . . .

---
Roland Dobbins 

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Crane, Todd]

If we are still talking about Netflix issues, eventually many of the issues
will sort themselves out. As more and more "smart" devices are IPv6
enabled, IPv4 only devices will become rarer and rarer. Thus the CGNAT
pools will be shared by less and less accounts.

Then again... we may run into the issue Apple ran into with the iPads. They
made iPads such that there was no good reason to upgrade. Now 5+ years
later, you have a lot of original iPads running around. Imagine the issues
if EoL'ed  and EoS'ed those iPads.

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Scott Morizot  wrote:

> On Jan 28, 2016 08:21, "Mark Tinka"  wrote:
> > On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:
> >
> > > Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
> >
> > The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on
> > the small sample I did in 2015.
>
> I'm curious how you conducted this sample. I happened to have set up a
> number of Smart TVs at home and for extended family over the past couple of
> years. They've all supported IPv6 out of the box. It's not a 'feature' any
> of them listed on their feature list. It was just part of their networking.
> My home is IPv6 enabled and my TVs are running it just fine.
>
> My personal, purely anecdotal experience is limited to Sony, Samsung, and
> LG smart TVs. But that's a much larger than simply 'non-zero' segment of
> the smart TV market. And smart TVs as a category aren't all that old.
>
> Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?
>
> Scott
>

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Scott Morizot]

On Jan 28, 2016 08:21, "Mark Tinka"  wrote:
> On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:
>
> > Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
>
> The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on
> the small sample I did in 2015.

I'm curious how you conducted this sample. I happened to have set up a
number of Smart TVs at home and for extended family over the past couple of
years. They've all supported IPv6 out of the box. It's not a 'feature' any
of them listed on their feature list. It was just part of their networking.
My home is IPv6 enabled and my TVs are running it just fine.

My personal, purely anecdotal experience is limited to Sony, Samsung, and
LG smart TVs. But that's a much larger than simply 'non-zero' segment of
the smart TV market. And smart TVs as a category aren't all that old.

Which brands are the ones that aren't supporting IPv6?

Scott

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Mark Tinka]

On 28/Jan/16 17:27, Stephen Satchell wrote:

> It depends on whether the exact model is being sold after a couple of
> years, and not superseded by new models.  This is the case in the
> wireless router world, where product churn leaves last year's model an
> orphan when it comes to updates.

Display manufacturers are pushing new products every year. A product you
buy today will be reasonably obsolete 24x months later (by obsolete I
mostly mean no more software updates for it).

The hope is that if display manufacturers move to more a "common" OS
platform, then feature support such as IPv6 and others could be
supported on "obsolete" models as long as newer releases of the OS still
support the hardware in the older displays (depending on the level of
independence between the OS and the hardware vendor, or the openness of
the hardware vendor to allow users do what they please with supported
OS's). For now, that looks like WebOS, Tizen, e.t.c.

Devices that last a little longer (such as game consoles) will receive
major updates in the first few years of sale. When the next gaming
console is released, the older ones will still be relevant, but then
updates will taper to useless things like "disabling of this with
Facebook" or "changed the default splash screen". Nothing to improve the
fundamental usability of the actual device such as IPv6.


>
> Not so much in the OS world, only because the OS doesn't churn that
> quickly.  But look at Windows and its history on support being
> withdrawn long before the product is useless (or the "new" product is
> worthless, causing people to hang back on upgrades).

True, but with Windows, you don't have to change your computer in order
to support the newer features. You just have to upgrade to the newer
Windows release. My home PC which I bought in 2008 when Windows XP was
the thing is now running Windows 10, happily, with full IPv6 support.

You can't say the same for hardware made with proprietary OS's that will
not get future support because newer hardware is now shipping. Much like
the majority of TV's today, as well as the home CPE's you speak of.

Mark.

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Stephen Satchell]

It depends on whether the exact model is being sold after a couple of 
years, and not superseded by new models.  This is the case in the 
wireless router world, where product churn leaves last year's model an 
orphan when it comes to updates.


Not so much in the OS world, only because the OS doesn't churn that 
quickly.  But look at Windows and its history on support being withdrawn 
long before the product is useless (or the "new" product is worthless, 
causing people to hang back on upgrades).


I shudder to think what will happen when IoT ramps up significantly. 
Will the stories we hear today about thermostats failing after a botched 
upgrade continue, or will the vendors get their act together?


On 01/28/2016 06:18 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:



On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:


Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?


The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on
the small sample I did in 2015.

Particularly for TV's, software update support goes from trickles to
non-existent two years after initial model manufacture. This has been
the case with proprietary software. Not sure about more open systems
such as WebOS.

Mark.

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Mark Tinka]

On 28/Jan/16 15:46, Bacon Zombie wrote:

> Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?

The number is not non-zero, but it's not worth talking about based on
the small sample I did in 2015.

Particularly for TV's, software update support goes from trickles to
non-existent two years after initial model manufacture. This has been
the case with proprietary software. Not sure about more open systems
such as WebOS.

Mark.

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Mike Hammett]

It is best start with any before moving to all. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Bacon Zombie"  
To: "Chris Knipe"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 7:46:33 AM 
Subject: Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked? 

Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box? 
On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe"  wrote: 

> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote: 
> 
> > 
> > Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an 
> > ISP and you’re not 
> > allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem 
> > rather than the solution. 
> > 
> > 
> Sure. Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers 
> actually PROVIDE IPv6 services. 
> 
> So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching. There are HUGE obstacles in huge 
> parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6. 
> 
> Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an 
> solution at all I'm afraid. 
> 
> -- 
> Chris. 
> 

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Chris Knipe]

Highly unlikely...


On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Bacon Zombie  wrote:

> Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
> On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe"  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re
>> an
>> > ISP and you’re not
>> > allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem
>> > rather than the solution.
>> >
>> >
>> Sure.  Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit
>> providers
>> actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.
>>
>> So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching.  There are HUGE obstacles in
>> huge
>> parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.
>>
>> Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an
>> solution at all I'm afraid.
>>
>> --
>> Chris.
>>
>


-- 

Regards,
Chris Knipe

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Bacon Zombie]

Do all "smart" TVs and Game consoles fully support IPv6 out of the box?
On 28 Jan 2016 10:17, "Chris Knipe"  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
> >
> > Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an
> > ISP and you’re not
> > allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem
> > rather than the solution.
> >
> >
> Sure.  Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers
> actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.
>
> So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching.  There are HUGE obstacles in huge
> parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.
>
> Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an
> solution at all I'm afraid.
>
> --
> Chris.
>

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Chris Knipe]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
> Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an
> ISP and you’re not
> allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem
> rather than the solution.
>
>
Sure.  Easy to say when you have access to IPv6, and your transit providers
actually PROVIDE IPv6 services.

So sick and tired of this IPv6 preaching.  There are HUGE obstacles in huge
parts of the world preventing the use of IPv6.

Simply throwing IPv6 as a solution to absolutely everything, is hardly an
solution at all I'm afraid.

--
Chris.

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Owen DeLong]

IPv4 will become a progressively deeper version of hell until we finally turn 
it off.

Fortunately Netflix is running IPv6 for most things already. If you’re an ISP 
and you’re not
allowing them to reach Netflix via IPv6, then you’re part of the problem rather 
than the solution.

Owen

> On Jan 27, 2016, at 12:36 , chris  wrote:
> 
> especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way abuse 
> and spam reports are handled
> 
> customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user to 
> contact isp, customer will call isp  and level 1 call center rep will say "we 
> can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem, if you are 
> having a issue with a specific service please contact your service provider"
> 
> and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
> 
> welcome to hell :)
> 
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> > On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch  > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a 
> >> conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
> >
> > Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be 
> > tied closer to the device vs account level.
> >
> > - Jared
> 
> This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination 
> of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
> 
> Owen
> 
> 

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Jared Mauch]

Having them visit the excellent test-IPv6.com is the best and easiest way to 
get that info. 

Jared Mauch

> On Jan 27, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> Are you talking about the same people that respond with "What is an IP?"
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Dave Temkin  wrote:
>> 
>> Our (Netflix) call center has been trained on how to handle calls for false
>> positive issues with proxy/VPNs. If you don't achieve an acceptable result,
>> please feel free to reach out - but believe it or not, they are the best
>> ones to handle.
>> 
>> -Dave
>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:36 AM, chris  wrote:
>>> 
>>> especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way
>>> abuse and spam reports are handled
>>> 
>>> customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user
>>> to contact isp, customer will call isp  and level 1 call center rep will
>>> say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem,
>>> if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your
>>> service provider"
>>> 
>>> and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
>>> 
>>> welcome to hell :)
>>> 
 On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
 
 
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch 
>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev 
>>> wrote:
>> 
>> One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while
>> on
 a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
> 
> Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps
>> should
 be tied closer to the device vs account level.
> 
> - Jared
 
 This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the
 combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
 
 Owen
>> 

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Josh Luthman]

Are you talking about the same people that respond with "What is an IP?"


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Dave Temkin  wrote:

> Our (Netflix) call center has been trained on how to handle calls for false
> positive issues with proxy/VPNs. If you don't achieve an acceptable result,
> please feel free to reach out - but believe it or not, they are the best
> ones to handle.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:36 AM, chris  wrote:
>
> > especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way
> > abuse and spam reports are handled
> >
> > customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user
> > to contact isp, customer will call isp  and level 1 call center rep will
> > say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem,
> > if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your
> > service provider"
> >
> > and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
> >
> > welcome to hell :)
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev 
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while
> on
> > > a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
> > > >
> > > > Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps
> should
> > > be tied closer to the device vs account level.
> > > >
> > > > - Jared
> > >
> > > This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the
> > > combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Dave Temkin]

Our (Netflix) call center has been trained on how to handle calls for false
positive issues with proxy/VPNs. If you don't achieve an acceptable result,
please feel free to reach out - but believe it or not, they are the best
ones to handle.

-Dave

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:36 AM, chris  wrote:

> especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way
> abuse and spam reports are handled
>
> customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user
> to contact isp, customer will call isp  and level 1 call center rep will
> say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem,
> if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your
> service provider"
>
> and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses
>
> welcome to hell :)
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
> >
> > > On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on
> > a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
> > >
> > > Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should
> > be tied closer to the device vs account level.
> > >
> > > - Jared
> >
> > This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the
> > combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
>

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[chris]

especially if these types of situations are handled on par with the way
abuse and spam reports are handled

customer will report being blocked to netflix, netflix will tell end user
to contact isp, customer will call isp  and level 1 call center rep will
say "we can ping your modem and your service is up we dont see a problem,
if you are having a issue with a specific service please contact your
service provider"

and the infinite loop begins, customer gets frustrated, everyone loses

welcome to hell :)

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
> > On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev  wrote:
> >>
> >> One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on
> a conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
> >
> > Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should
> be tied closer to the device vs account level.
> >
> > - Jared
>
> This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the
> combination of MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.
>
> Owen
>
>

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 27, 2016, at 07:12 , Jared Mauch  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev  wrote:
>> 
>> One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a 
>> conference to Europe (same account, different countries).
> 
> Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be 
> tied closer to the device vs account level.
> 
> - Jared

This is all going to get a whole lot more entertaining with the combination of 
MIP6 and IPv4 CGNAT.

Owen

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Jared Mauch]

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Andrey Yakovlev  wrote:
> 
> One user had his wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a 
> conference to Europe (same account, different countries).

Hmm, I seem to think this one might be quite common, so perhaps should be tied 
closer to the device vs account level.

- Jared

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Andrey Yakovlev]

26.01.2016, 17:49, "Ryan Gard" :
> Hey,
>
> Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of
> this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are
> unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message
> advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP
> blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Ryan Gard

We have noticed the same issue in the last hours, a couple users complaining 
they were seeing the "You seem to be using an unblocker or proxy. Please turn 
off any of these services and try again." message. We have worked with 
Netflix's open connect support guys and found out essentially netflix is trying 
to determine if the account is reaching their systems from different region 
other than the contracted one or if from multiple regios at a short period of 
time, which one could not fly thousand miles in that time window. So how to 
explain the blocks? Different explanations on different users. One user had his 
wife sharing his Netflix account on her iPad while on a conference to Europe 
(same account, different countries). One other case was related to a user who 
was at tor, in fact he was an exit node for tor with his share / natted ip 
address and it looks like someone was else from another account used his ip 
address as an exit node or he used tor with his account. In the end it was the 
same case of being at two regions with the same account in a short time window. 
We also had good insights via telephone support by Netflix at 0800-096-6379 
(europe).

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Hugo Slabbert]

On Sun 2016-Jan-24 22:32:42 -0500, Ryan Gard  wrote:


Hey,

Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of
this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are
unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message
advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP
blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...

Thanks!


We had a similar issue, though in that case we found:

1.  The user had been sharing the account between 3 different households 
across (a) 2 different IP blocks within our network and (b) with a 3rd user 
on an entirely different ISP in the US (we're in Canada), with multiple 
devices in use by some locations.


2.  The sites across which the same account was being shared had different 
connectivity options, with one of those having a decent chunk of MTU 
overhead on the connection (l2tp + pppoe etc.), perhaps raising some flags 
in Netflix's detection due to smaller MSS?


3.  Using the same account on different IPs on the same provider also got 
blocked.


4.  Using a different account on the *exact same IPs* did not have any 
streaming issues, suggesting Netflix was flagging the account rather than 
(just) the IPs.


Dunno if that helps, but it may be beneficial if Netflix can provide some 
guidance on the logic in the "this is behind a VPN/proxy" detection (though 
I am assuming they likely won't disclose that so as not to give away 
secrets to the other party in the arms race).




--
Ryan Gard


--
Hugo

h...@slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber
PGP fingerprint (B178313E):
CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E

(also on Signal)


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Josh Luthman]

Use cdnet...@netflix.com


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 PM, Ryan Gard  wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of
> this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are
> unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message
> advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP
> blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Ryan Gard
>

Netflix NOC? VPN Mismarked?

[Ryan Gard]

Hey,

Per chance if someone @ Netflix could reach me off list? Seems that as of
this weekend there's a number of our clients (residential internet) who are
unable to utilize Netflix directly, instead being presented with a message
advising them they're using a VPN service... Have a feeling that our IP
blocks were lumped in with someone somehow...

Thanks!

-- 
Ryan Gard