Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-07 Thread Jeroen van Aart
Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6214/ That RFC is the opposite of funny (to me). Just because rfc1149 is funny that doesn't mean that repetitions of it are funny too. Quite the contrary. Greetings, Jeroen -- http://goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-07 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:23:12 PDT, Jeroen van Aart said: Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6214/ That RFC is the opposite of funny (to me). Just because rfc1149 is funny that doesn't mean that repetitions of it are funny too. Quite the contrary. Yes, but I

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-07 Thread Scott Brim
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 15:35, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:23:12 PDT, Jeroen van Aart said: Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6214/ That RFC is the opposite of funny (to me). Just because rfc1149 is funny that doesn't mean

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-07 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 03:39:03PM -0400, Scott Brim wrote: You need to specify tail drop behavior. It may be a Eurasian Hobby to make such silly statements, but to me it just seems like an Imperial Shag, and a waste of everyone's time. A Brown Kiwi once told me that the

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-07 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - From: Valdis Kletnieks valdis.kletni...@vt.edu On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:23:12 PDT, Jeroen van Aart said: Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6214/ That RFC is the opposite of funny (to me). Just because rfc1149 is funny

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-03 Thread Jay Ashworth
Original Message - From: Steven Bellovin s...@cs.columbia.edu Which? African or European Swallows? (Watches Chad fly over the cliff edge) ;-) So the RFC needed more text in it's Security Considerations section, too... People just don't put enough *thought* into their April 1

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Jeff Walter
On 4/1/2011 5:41 AM, Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: I was wondering which April 1st this would happen on. Now I know. So if a v6 carrier swallows a v4 datagram does that count as packet loss or tunneling? http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6214/ Depending on whether or not the packet

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Scott Morris
Mmm... Good question. Would it actually come back OUT in a recognizable (de-encapsulated) manner? I'll vote with packet loss, 'cause tunneling seems pretty gross. ;) Scott On 4/1/11 2:41 PM, Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: I was wondering which April 1st this would happen on. Now I

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread GP Wooden
I wonder on the carrier would survive a DoS attack ... - Reply message - From: Scott Morris s...@emanon.com Date: Fri, Apr 1, 2011 9:01 am Subject: v6 Avian Carriers? To: nanog@nanog.org Mmm... Good question. Would it actually come back OUT in a recognizable (de-encapsulated) manner?

Re: Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:30:45 CDT, =?utf-8?B?R1AgV29vZGVu?= said: wonder on the carrier would survive a DoS attack ... RFC1149 says: Avian carriers can provide high delay, low throughput, and low altitude service. The connection topology is limited to a single point-to-point path for

Re: Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Brandon Ross
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, GP Wooden wrote: I wonder on the carrier would survive a DoS attack ... I'm not sure about that, but we know that, if a Sullenberger unit has been installed, a large aircraft can survive a DoS attack perpetrated by the avian carrier. -- Brandon Ross

Re: Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Dorn Hetzel
I was thinking today would be a good day to write an RFC for fractional DHCP where end-users can get issued say 1/64 of an v4 IP, say 155.229.10.20:1024-2047. Other users on the same DSLAM, etc behind the carrier NAT would have other shares of the same public IP. :) On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at

Re: Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Dorn Hetzel wrote: I was thinking today would be a good day to write an RFC for fractional DHCP where end-users can get issued say 1/64 of an v4 IP, say 155.229.10.20:1024-2047. Other users on the same DSLAM, etc behind the carrier NAT would have other shares of the same

Re: Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Dorn Hetzel
I'm thinking both TCP and UDP, and for ICMP don't NAT's use the sequence number field to keep them separate ? On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Justin M. Streiner strei...@cluebyfour.orgwrote: On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Dorn Hetzel wrote: I was thinking today would be a good day to write an RFC for

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Andy Davidson
On 1 Apr 2011, at 17:47, Dorn Hetzel wrote: I was thinking today would be a good day to write an RFC for fractional DHCP where end-users can get issued say 1/64 of an v4 IP, say 155.229.10.20:1024-2047. Other users on the same DSLAM, etc behind the carrier NAT would have other shares of

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Steven Bellovin
On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:41 11AM, Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: I was wondering which April 1st this would happen on. Now I know. So if a v6 carrier swallows a v4 datagram does that count as packet loss or tunneling? http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6214/ I was disappointed in this

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Antonio Querubin
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Steven Bellovin wrote: I was disappointed in this RFC -- Section 3.1 didn't include the proper discussion of the difference between African and European avian carriers, and we know what happens if that question is asked at the wrong time. That discussion would be out of

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Dave Edelman
I believe that the Sullenberger unit effected the loss of the avian carriers requiring regeneration and retransmission. Dave Edelman On Apr 1, 2011, at 12:19, Brandon Ross br...@pobox.com wrote: On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, GP Wooden wrote: I wonder on the carrier would survive a DoS attack ...

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Cutler James R
On Apr 1, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Dorn Hetzel wrote: I'm thinking both TCP and UDP, and for ICMP don't NAT's use the sequence number field to keep them separate ? SNIP/ In my experience, the Avian Carriers usually eat the NATs. James R. Cutler james.cut...@consultant.com

Re: Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Richard Barnes
Be careful what you wish for: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ymbk-aplusp On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Dorn Hetzel d...@hetzel.org wrote: I was thinking today would be a good day to write an RFC for fractional DHCP where end-users can get issued say 1/64 of an v4 IP, say

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Owen DeLong
It's also especially sensitive to icing induced packet loss. Owen On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:30 AM, GP Wooden wrote: I wonder on the carrier would survive a DoS attack ... - Reply message - From: Scott Morris s...@emanon.com Date: Fri, Apr 1, 2011 9:01 am Subject: v6 Avian Carriers?

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Michael K. Smith - Adhost
I thought iced-over fiber was a little bit like muffler-bearings. Great excuse if they buy it. Mike On 4/1/11 6:07 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: It's also especially sensitive to icing induced packet loss. Owen On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:30 AM, GP Wooden wrote: I wonder on the carrier

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Owen DeLong
On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Brandon Ross wrote: On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, GP Wooden wrote: I wonder on the carrier would survive a DoS attack ... I'm not sure about that, but we know that, if a Sullenberger unit has been installed, a large aircraft can survive a DoS attack perpetrated by the

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Owen DeLong
On Apr 1, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote: On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:41 11AM, Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: I was wondering which April 1st this would happen on. Now I know. So if a v6 carrier swallows a v4 datagram does that count as packet loss or tunneling?

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Chad Dailey
Swallows have MTU issues. On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: On Apr 1, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote: On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:41 11AM, Sachs, Marcus Hans (Marc) wrote: I was wondering which April 1st this would happen on. Now I know. So if a

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Owen DeLong
Which? African or European Swallows? (Watches Chad fly over the cliff edge) ;-) Owen On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:34 PM, Chad Dailey wrote: Swallows have MTU issues. On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: On Apr 1, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote: On

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Brandon Ross
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Owen DeLong wrote: Not true. The occupants of the aircraft survived. The aircraft did not. Hm, in my recollection the payload made it to the destination. Perhaps the route was a bit unexpected though. -- Brandon Ross AIM:

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Steven Bellovin
On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: Which? African or European Swallows? (Watches Chad fly over the cliff edge) ;-) So the RFC needed more text in it's Security Considerations section, too... Owen On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:34 PM, Chad Dailey wrote:

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Robert Bonomi
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 20:34:52 -0500 Subject: Re: v6 Avian Carriers? From: Chad Dailey na...@thedaileyplanet.com Swallows have MTU issues. No swallows? Oh, spit.

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Scott Morris
Isn't that what the uvula is for? Oh... never mind wrong swallow. ;) On 4/2/11 3:34 AM, Chad Dailey wrote: Swallows have MTU issues. On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: On Apr 1, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote: On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:41

Re: v6 Avian Carriers?

2011-04-01 Thread Scott Morris
Random re-encapsulation. Now there's an interesting protocol! On 4/2/11 3:53 AM, Brandon Ross wrote: On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Owen DeLong wrote: Not true. The occupants of the aircraft survived. The aircraft did not. Hm, in my recollection the payload made it to the