Re: power to the internet

On 4/Jan/20 12:54, Florian Weimer wrote: > > I guess most countries struggle to maintain basic infrastructure. Then someone will ask, "What is basic, and is the Internet it?" Mark.

Re: power to the internet

* John Levine: > In article <87y2up1vc4@mid.deneb.enyo.de> you write: >>I found the connection rather puzzling (that is, how switching off >>power distribution prevents wildfires or at least reduces their risk). >>I found some explanations here (downed lines, vegetation contact, >>conductor

Re: power to the internet

On Thursday, 2 January, 2020 21:34, "Sabri Berisha" said: > - On Jan 2, 2020, at 1:24 PM, John Levine jo...@iecc.com wrote: > >> PS: You also wouldn't believe how cheap the power is. California's >> prices are high compared to most of the US, but it's still only about >> €0.15 per KWh. >

Re: power to the internet

I'm familiar with the Sir Adam Beck plant, I grew up in and live in Niagara County. Not everything produced by the NYPA goes to munis. There is a lot sold direct to businesses; last I checked roughly 5% of the generation from the Niagara Power Project is allocated for businesses in WNY in a 30

Re: power to the internet

In article you write: >-=-=-=-=-=- >It helps that we have a 2.6GW pumped storage generation facility near >Niagara Falls. :) It does, but all that power goes to the munis, not the commercial company that supplies me. We do import a lot of hydro power from Quebec. There's another power plant

Re: power to the internet

It helps that we have a 2.6GW pumped storage generation facility near Niagara Falls. :) On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 5:05 PM Scott Weeks wrote: > > - > > I don't know where you live, but I pay around 38 cents/KWh. Depending > > on your rate, that can go up to 53 cents/KWh during

Re: power to the internet

- > I don't know where you live, but I pay around 38 cents/KWh. Depending > on your rate, that can go up to 53 cents/KWh during peak times. I live in upstate New York where I pay about 8c/kwh and a fixed $15/mo connection charge. We have day/night rates available but

Re: power to the internet

PS: You also wouldn't believe how cheap the power is. California's prices are high compared to most of the US, but it's still only about €0.15 per KWh. I don't know where you live, but I pay around 38 cents/KWh. Depending on your rate, that can go up to 53 cents/KWh during peak times. 16x is

Re: power to the internet

On 1/2/20 1:34 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote: - On Jan 2, 2020, at 1:24 PM, John Levine jo...@iecc.com wrote: PS: You also wouldn't believe how cheap the power is. California's prices are high compared to most of the US, but it's still only about €0.15 per KWh. I don't know where you live,

Re: power to the internet

- On Jan 2, 2020, at 1:24 PM, John Levine jo...@iecc.com wrote: > PS: You also wouldn't believe how cheap the power is. California's > prices are high compared to most of the US, but it's still only about > €0.15 per KWh. I don't know where you live, but I pay around 38 cents/KWh. Depending

Re: power to the internet

In article <87y2up1vc4@mid.deneb.enyo.de> you write: >I found the connection rather puzzling (that is, how switching off >power distribution prevents wildfires or at least reduces their risk). >I found some explanations here (downed lines, vegetation contact, >conductor slap, repetitive

Re: power to the internet

* Jason Wilson: > This is all in conjunction with the CPUC. I believe it is also a part of a > court order. I’ll need to find that later > > https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/deenergization/ I found the connection rather puzzling (that is, how switching off power distribution prevents wildfires or at

Re: power to the internet

. --John Lightfoot -Original Message- From: NANOG on behalf of Howard Leadmon Date: Monday, December 30, 2019 at 3:09 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" Subject: Re: power to the internet Isn't that what the Tesla Power Wall's are? I thought that was the fill measure for when

Re: power to the internet

  Isn't that what the Tesla Power Wall's are?   I thought that was the fill measure for when the solar panels aren't generating.   I have never gotten anything, but know when you look on their site for Solar, they try and pitch the batter power walls to run your house for days if needed..

Re: power to the internet

al message > From: Michael Thomas mailto:m...@mtcc.com>> > Date: 26/12/19 2:33 PM (GMT+12:00) > To: nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org> > Subject: power to the internet > > > https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/25/california-power

Re: power to the internet

> 6G will solve your data problem. >> > >> > D >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Don Gould >> > 5 Cargill Place >> > Richmond >> > Christchurch, New Zealand >> > Mobile/Telegram: + 64 21 114 0699 >> &g

Re: power to the internet

> >>> > >>> Your car will "house tie". > >>> > >>> 6G will solve your data problem. > >>> > >>> D > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Don Gould > >>

Re: power to the internet

;bowenvale.co.nz Original message From: Michael Thomas Date: 26/12/19 2:33 PM (GMT+12:00) To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: power to the internet https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/25/california-power-shutoffs-089678 This article details some of the issues with California's "ne

Re: power to the internet

r will "house tie". > > > > 6G will solve your data problem. > > > > D > > > > > > > > -- > > Don Gould > > 5 Cargill Place > > Richmond > > Christchurch, New Zealand > > Mobile/Telegram: + 64 21 114 0699 >

Re: power to the internet

This is all in conjunction with the CPUC. I believe it is also a part of a court order. I’ll need to find that later https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/deenergization/ I don’t want to copy the whole thing but this is the bulk of it before it goes Into when the outages were. Wildfires are more destructive

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 6:38 PM, Fred Baker wrote: This time it’s PG all alone, but still fallout from back then. Too much liability and they’ve not maintained the infrastructure and so they decided that to reduce the liability costs it’s cheaper to blackout. Same story again different colors. PG making

Re: power to the internet

> This time it’s PG all alone, but still fallout from back then. Too much > liability and they’ve not maintained the infrastructure and so they decided > that to reduce the liability costs it’s cheaper to blackout. Same story again > different colors. PG making a mint while people get screwed

Re: power to the internet

Hi Brandon, I agree with lots of what you wrote, here's some more thoughts tl;dr Batteries from cars will fix your issues along with smart guys just wanting to get the job done. WHO AM I?! I am a coms tech.  I have been on this list for ~20 years. My job is simply to look at the

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 4:06 PM, John Levine wrote: In article you write: run but are now showing their long term consequences, notably land use that encourages sprawl and construction in ill-suited areas If we stopped construction in all of the ill-suited areas, we'd stop construction all together,

Re: power to the internet

In article you write: >> run but are now showing their long term consequences, notably land use >> that encourages sprawl and construction in ill-suited areas > >If we stopped construction in all of the ill-suited areas, we'd stop >construction all together, and tear down much more. We have it

Re: power to the internet

On Thu Dec 26, 2019 at 11:20:01AM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote: > I just looked up Telsa's battery packs and they seem to be between > 60-100kwh. Our daily use is about 30kwh in the fall, so it's only 2-3 > days. Admittedly we can turn off the hot tub, water heater, etc to > stretch it out. And

Re: power to the internet

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 13:19, Stephen Satchell wrote: > Longer term, review your backhauls and interconnects. Dark fiber would > be preferred here, because you would be controlling backup power at both > ends, and not depending on intermediate nodes. > What about the NSA taps? Do they tap the

RE: power to the internet

>I just looked up Telsa's battery packs and they seem to be between >60-100kwh. Our daily use is about 30kwh in the fall, so it's only 2-3 >days. Admittedly we can turn off the hot tub, water heater, etc to >stretch it out. And of course, that means that you can't drive it... The >one thing that

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 11:18 AM, John Levine wrote: In article you write: To reanswer the question posed though, is still the same ; $$$. If network operators take the position that the electric utility supply should be more reliable than it is, then they need to start influencing and lobbying for

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 11:18 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote: On 12/26/19 10:55 AM, Michael Thomas wrote: Here in California, you're going to need a lot more than 8 hours. We had one that lasted 3 days, followed by about 8 hours of power, followed by 2 days of no power. If this is the new normal, and I'm

Re: power to the internet

AT land line had service trucks parked at RT’s to power them. I talked with one of the techs. He was on a 12 hour schedule and spent that time between 3 sites charging the batteries to keep the copper plant running. They plugged in to the truck inverter and ran the truck all day. He told me they

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 11:00 AM, Ben Cannon wrote: How much generating capacity can you get out of a typical hybrid? You’re joking right?  A lot… Enough to run an entire neighborhood…   The Prius makes 50,000watts alone. With the right circuitry, there is no need for power plants in the United

Re: power to the internet

In article you write: >To reanswer the question posed though, is still the same ; $$$. If network >operators take the position that the electric utility supply should be more >reliable than it is, then they need to start influencing and lobbying for >ways for that to happen. If not, they will

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 10:55 AM, Michael Thomas wrote: Here in California, you're going to need a lot more than 8 hours. We had one that lasted 3 days, followed by about 8 hours of power, followed by 2 days of no power. If this is the new normal, and I'm afraid that it is, that's probably going to

Re: power to the internet

gill Place >> Richmond >> Christchurch, New Zealand >> Mobile/Telegram: + 64 21 114 0699 >> www. <http://www.tusker.net.au/>bowenvale.co.nz >> >> >> >> Original message >> From: Michael Thomas >> Date: 26/12/19 2

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 10:41 AM, Ben Cannon wrote: Exactly. And we will build it all. The power stuff is serious people.  We’ve gotten letters from the FCC over it.  There is additional regulation coming down when people can’t call 911! You need at minimum 8 hours (or your CRT response time with a

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 10:26 AM, Tom Beecher wrote: If that was a reference to my comments, it was certainly not my intention. I was striving to avoid it being seen as that, but apparently fell short. Not directed at you at all. To reanswer the question posed though, is still the same ; $$$. If

Re: power to the internet

Original message ---- > From: Michael Thomas > Date: 26/12/19 2:33 PM (GMT+12:00) > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: power to the internet > > > https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/25/california-power-shutoffs-089678 > > > This article details som

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 10:19 AM, Jason Wilson wrote: As a small WISP operator in Northern California and well into the urban interface we fell victim to the PSPS this year. Thousands was spent on upgrading battery plants that would normally hold during a short outage and generator purchases, whether it

Re: power to the internet

If that was a reference to my comments, it was certainly not my intention. I was striving to avoid it being seen as that, but apparently fell short. To reanswer the question posed though, is still the same ; $$$. If network operators take the position that the electric utility supply should be

Re: power to the internet

As a small WISP operator in Northern California and well into the urban interface we fell victim to the PSPS this year. Thousands was spent on upgrading battery plants that would normally hold during a short outage and generator purchases, whether it be small inverter style generators for small

Re: power to the internet

On 12/26/19 7:51 AM, Mike Bolitho wrote: I'm pretty sure political bickering is well beyond the scope of the mailing list. Is anyone moderating this? It certainly wasn't my intent or desire to have this turn political, and shame on the person who did. This is a serious networking related

Re: power to the internet

I'm pretty sure political bickering is well beyond the scope of the mailing list. Is anyone moderating this? - Mike Bolitho On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 7:20 AM Tom Beecher wrote: > Same story again different colors. PG making a mint while people get >> screwed >> > > I'm not quite sure that's an

Re: power to the internet

> > Same story again different colors. PG making a mint while people get > screwed > I'm not quite sure that's an accurate statement. In 2000-2001, PG got screwed by Enron's market manipulation. ( Good job those who pushed so hard for deregulation of public utility services! ) PG is currently

Re: power to the internet

Date: 26/12/19 2:33 PM (GMT+12:00) To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: power to the internet https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/25/california-power-shutoffs-089678 This article details some of the issues with California's "new reality" of planned blackouts. One of the big

RE: power to the internet

64 21 114 0699www.bowenvale.co.nz Original message From: Michael Thomas Date: 26/12/19 2:33 PM (GMT+12:00) To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: power to the internet https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/25/california-power-shutoffs-089678This article details some of the issues with Califor

Re: power to the internet

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 22:08, Michael Thomas wrote: > > On 12/25/19 7:26 PM, Constantine A. Murenin wrote: > > > > I'm an ex-California resident myself here > > Good riddance. This has nothing to do with the climate change that is > actually happening here. > > Mike > Well, enjoy your climate

Re: power to the internet

On 12/25/19 7:26 PM, Constantine A. Murenin wrote: I'm an ex-California resident myself here Good riddance. This has nothing to do with the climate change that is actually happening here. Mike

Re: power to the internet

On 12/25/19 7:10 PM, Stephen Satchell wrote: On 12/25/19 6:29 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: Yes, this is exactly right. My point here isn't to assign blame, but to ask what the hell we're going to do about it. Trying to score political points is disgusting. Do you live in California? Yes.

Re: power to the internet

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 20:29, Michael Thomas wrote: > > On 12/25/19 6:16 PM, Michael Loftis wrote: > > > > Having lived through the blackouts that was entirely different. 90% Enron > manipulating the markets. There was plenty of capacity both in transmission > and generation, but Enron

Re: power to the internet

On 12/25/19 6:29 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: Yes, this is exactly right. My point here isn't to assign blame, but to ask what the hell we're going to do about it. Trying to score political points is disgusting. Do you live in California? Do you have your business in California? Take a look at

Re: power to the internet

On 12/25/19 6:16 PM, Michael Loftis wrote: Having lived through the blackouts that was entirely different. 90% Enron manipulating the markets. There was plenty of capacity both in transmission and generation, but Enron manipulated prices and apparent supply to make money and screwed the

Re: power to the internet

On 12/25/19 5:59 PM, Constantine A. Murenin wrote: On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 19:32, Michael Thomas > wrote: On the dark side, this is probably coming to a lot more states and countries due to climate change. Australia. Sigh. Do you have a source for this?  It would

Re: power to the internet

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 19:00 Constantine A. Murenin wrote: > On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 19:32, Michael Thomas wrote: > >> On the dark side, this is probably coming to a lot more states and >> countries due to climate change. Australia. Sigh. >> > > Do you have a source for this? It would seem

Re: power to the internet

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 at 19:32, Michael Thomas wrote: > On the dark side, this is probably coming to a lot more states and > countries due to climate change. Australia. Sigh. > Do you have a source for this? It would seem that these power issues are rather unique to California not because of

power to the internet

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/25/california-power-shutoffs-089678 This article details some of the issues with California's "new reality" of planned blackouts. One of the big things that came to light with these blackouts is that our network infrastructure's resilience is pretty