How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition?
- Original Message - From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com Actually, as I understood what was proposed, you would bring Cable Coop and/or other such vendors into the colo space adjacent to the MMR and let them sell directly to the other service providers and/or customers. I am of two minds at this point, on this topic. The goal of this project, lying just atop improving the city's position in the world, is to do so by making practical competition between service providers, to keep prices as low as possible. when I delve into the realm of things like this, some people could make a relatively defensible argument that I am disadvantaging ISPs who are smart enough to know about this sort of service on their own, by helping out those who are not. I'm not sure if that argument outweighs the opposing one, which is that I should be *trying* to advantage those smaller, less savvy operators, as they're the sort I want as providers. I think this particular point is one of opinion; I solicit such. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Re: How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition?
On the video side or the total data project? Both? On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com Actually, as I understood what was proposed, you would bring Cable Coop and/or other such vendors into the colo space adjacent to the MMR and let them sell directly to the other service providers and/or customers. I am of two minds at this point, on this topic. The goal of this project, lying just atop improving the city's position in the world, is to do so by making practical competition between service providers, to keep prices as low as possible. when I delve into the realm of things like this, some people could make a relatively defensible argument that I am disadvantaging ISPs who are smart enough to know about this sort of service on their own, by helping out those who are not. I'm not sure if that argument outweighs the opposing one, which is that I should be *trying* to advantage those smaller, less savvy operators, as they're the sort I want as providers. I think this particular point is one of opinion; I solicit such. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274 -- Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 http://twitter.com/kscotthelms
RE: How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition?
IMHO: level of clue is a minor point, as that can be bought. The fundamental issues for a project like this are funding, and intent. Well-funded organizations that lack intent are just problem children that like to tie up the courts to keep others from making progress. The target for a project like you describe is the organization with intent, but lacks funding. Yes some of those will have an easier time by not having to acquire the appropriate level of clue, but they may not last long if they don't. Part of your calculation has to be level of churn you are willing to impose on the city as the low-price competitors come and go. Tony -Original Message- From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:09 AM To: NANOG Subject: How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition? - Original Message - From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com Actually, as I understood what was proposed, you would bring Cable Coop and/or other such vendors into the colo space adjacent to the MMR and let them sell directly to the other service providers and/or customers. I am of two minds at this point, on this topic. The goal of this project, lying just atop improving the city's position in the world, is to do so by making practical competition between service providers, to keep prices as low as possible. when I delve into the realm of things like this, some people could make a relatively defensible argument that I am disadvantaging ISPs who are smart enough to know about this sort of service on their own, by helping out those who are not. I'm not sure if that argument outweighs the opposing one, which is that I should be *trying* to advantage those smaller, less savvy operators, as they're the sort I want as providers. I think this particular point is one of opinion; I solicit such. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Re: How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition?
- Original Message - From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com On the video side or the total data project? Both? The point of open fiber is to level the competitive marketplace as much as possible for provider. Which approach better services that goal: telling them all about all the providers who might make their services more complete, or not doing so? Whether we provide shared space, treating such providers as other clients, and tying them all through an IX switch, is a subsidiary issue. Cheers -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Re: How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition?
- Original Message - From: Tony Hain alh-i...@tndh.net IMHO: level of clue is a minor point, as that can be bought. The fundamental issues for a project like this are funding, and intent. Well-funded organizations that lack intent are just problem children that like to tie up the courts to keep others from making progress. The target for a project like you describe is the organization with intent, but lacks funding. Yes some of those will have an easier time by not having to acquire the appropriate level of clue, but they may not last long if they don't. Part of your calculation has to be level of churn you are willing to impose on the city as the low-price competitors come and go. So you're saying I *should* provide all comers with the research in question, and deal with shared IX access right up front, even if that means I have multiple providers offering the same good as separate retailers... in the service of avoiding provider churn? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Re: How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition?
Jay, On the data side that's certainly possible, but the content guys won't play ball on a shared L2 network. This actually undermines my position on how to architect your system, but sharing anything from one of the big content guys isn't something I've seen them allow as of yet. Organizations like TVN(Avail now?) or NCTC also require direct agreements and I've never seen them do anything at an aggregation level. On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com On the video side or the total data project? Both? The point of open fiber is to level the competitive marketplace as much as possible for provider. Which approach better services that goal: telling them all about all the providers who might make their services more complete, or not doing so? Whether we provide shared space, treating such providers as other clients, and tying them all through an IX switch, is a subsidiary issue. Cheers -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274 -- Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 http://twitter.com/kscotthelms
Re: How far must muni fiber operators protect ISP competition?
- Original Message - From: Scott Helms khe...@zcorum.com On the data side that's certainly possible, but the content guys won't play ball on a shared L2 network. This actually undermines my position on how to architect your system, but sharing anything from one of the big content guys isn't something I've seen them allow as of yet. Organizations like TVN(Avail now?) or NCTC also require direct agreements and I've never seen them do anything at an aggregation level. I'm aware of how pissy content providers/transport aggregators are likely to be; I'm been involved in the mythTV project for about 7 years. My point was that if any of them provide on-site equipment as, say, Akamai do (and yes, I realize we're discussing real-time now, not caching), if they have multiple clients in the same place, it's in *their* best interest not to provision multiple racks just because they have contracts with multiple providers; perhaps such racks would connect directly, and mentioning my IX was a red-herring; my apologies for confusing the matter. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
