Re: AWS Using Class E IPv4 Address on internal Routing
Hi, On Tue, Mar 09, 2021 at 06:53:33AM -0800, Fred Baker wrote: > The "RFC" you're looking for is probably > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wilson-class-e-02 there was/is also 'IPv4 unicast extensions project' (https://github.com/schoen/unicast-extensions) with a similar idea & approach. I for one think that from an operations perspective those addresses would be pretty much unusable in pretty much all complex networks (except for corner cases like, maybe, AWS' one), see https://theinternetprotocolblog.wordpress.com/2019/10/06/some-notes-on-ipv4-address-space/. cheers Enno , which was not agreed to and so has no RFC number. The fundamental issue that was raised during that discussion was that while repurposing class e would provide a few more IPv4 addresses and so delay the need to replace the IPv4 protocol for some period of time, APNIC's experience with a new /8 in 2011 (it was given the /8 in January 2011, and by April had largely distributed it to its members) suggests that the address space would be used up almost immediately if distributed publicly, and if used privately doesn't benefit the many networks that really honestly wish that we could squeeze more than 2^32 addresses into a 32 bit container. > > I'd really suggest using IPv6. Networks like Reliance JIO in India, which has > turned off or never turned on IPv4 for most of its services, find that they > don't need IPv4 apart from customer preference. > > > On Mar 9, 2021, at 6:36 AM, Douglas Fischer > > wrote: > > > > So, if an organization wants to use that, they will require from the > > vendors the compliance with that RFC. > > > > > > > > Em ter., 9 de mar. de 2021 ??s 11:00, Forrest Christian (List Account) > > escreveu: > > Back a little bit ago when the thread about running out of RFC-1918 space > > was going on, I was going to make a suggestion about repurposing the Class > > E space in the case where one ran out of space, assuming one could get the > > vendors on your network to support this address range. > > > > I sort of discarded the suggestion just because of the whole issue of that > > range being hardcoded as invalid in so many implementations that this > > didn't seem all that useful. > > > > On the other hand, if you're large enough that you're running out of > > RFC-1918 space you might be able to exert enough power over select vendors > > to get them to make this work for selected purposes. Router-to-Router > > links, especially between higher-end routers seems to be one of those cases > > that it might be useful. It might be the case that Amazon is already > > doing this > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 12:07 PM Douglas Fischer > > wrote: > > Has anybody seen that also? > > > > P.S.: I'm completely in favor of a complementary RFC assing FUTURE USE > > exclusively to "Between Routers" Link Networks... > > > > -- > > Douglas Fernando Fischer > > Eng?? de Controle e Automao > > > > > > -- > > - Forrest > > > > > > > -- Enno Rey Cell: +49 173 6745902 Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator
Re: AWS Using Class E IPv4 Address on internal Routing
The "RFC" you're looking for is probably https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wilson-class-e-02, which was not agreed to and so has no RFC number. The fundamental issue that was raised during that discussion was that while repurposing class e would provide a few more IPv4 addresses and so delay the need to replace the IPv4 protocol for some period of time, APNIC's experience with a new /8 in 2011 (it was given the /8 in January 2011, and by April had largely distributed it to its members) suggests that the address space would be used up almost immediately if distributed publicly, and if used privately doesn't benefit the many networks that really honestly wish that we could squeeze more than 2^32 addresses into a 32 bit container. I'd really suggest using IPv6. Networks like Reliance JIO in India, which has turned off or never turned on IPv4 for most of its services, find that they don't need IPv4 apart from customer preference. > On Mar 9, 2021, at 6:36 AM, Douglas Fischer wrote: > > So, if an organization wants to use that, they will require from the vendors > the compliance with that RFC. > > > > Em ter., 9 de mar. de 2021 às 11:00, Forrest Christian (List Account) > escreveu: > Back a little bit ago when the thread about running out of RFC-1918 space was > going on, I was going to make a suggestion about repurposing the Class E > space in the case where one ran out of space, assuming one could get the > vendors on your network to support this address range. > > I sort of discarded the suggestion just because of the whole issue of that > range being hardcoded as invalid in so many implementations that this didn't > seem all that useful. > > On the other hand, if you're large enough that you're running out of RFC-1918 > space you might be able to exert enough power over select vendors to get them > to make this work for selected purposes. Router-to-Router links, especially > between higher-end routers seems to be one of those cases that it might be > useful. It might be the case that Amazon is already doing this > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 12:07 PM Douglas Fischer > wrote: > Has anybody seen that also? > > P.S.: I'm completely in favor of a complementary RFC assing FUTURE USE > exclusively to "Between Routers" Link Networks... > > -- > Douglas Fernando Fischer > Engº de Controle e Automação > > > -- > - Forrest > > > signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
Re: AWS Using Class E IPv4 Address on internal Routing
I think this "intra-standard", probably using white-boxes, could be an Open-Standard conducted by an RFC or IANA definition. Something like: -> Equipments compliant with RFC WXYZ are able to use Classe E in their Interfaces without giving pokey messages "reserved for future use". So, if an organization wants to use that, they will require from the vendors the compliance with that RFC. Em ter., 9 de mar. de 2021 às 11:00, Forrest Christian (List Account) < li...@packetflux.com> escreveu: > Back a little bit ago when the thread about running out of RFC-1918 space > was going on, I was going to make a suggestion about repurposing the Class > E space in the case where one ran out of space, assuming one could get the > vendors on your network to support this address range. > > I sort of discarded the suggestion just because of the whole issue of that > range being hardcoded as invalid in so many implementations that this > didn't seem all that useful. > > On the other hand, if you're large enough that you're running out of > RFC-1918 space you might be able to exert enough power over select vendors > to get them to make this work for selected purposes. Router-to-Router > links, especially between higher-end routers seems to be one of those cases > that it might be useful. It might be the case that Amazon is already > doing this > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 12:07 PM Douglas Fischer > wrote: > >> Has anybody seen that also? >> >> P.S.: I'm completely in favor of a complementary RFC assing FUTURE USE >> exclusively to "Between Routers" Link Networks... >> >> -- >> Douglas Fernando Fischer >> Engº de Controle e Automação >> > > > -- > - Forrest > -- Douglas Fernando Fischer Engº de Controle e Automação
Re: AWS Using Class E IPv4 Address on internal Routing
Dnia Tue, Mar 09, 2021 at 07:00:47AM -0700, Forrest Christian (List Account) napisał(a): > to get them to make this work for selected purposes. Router-to-Router > links, especially between higher-end routers seems to be one of those cases > that it might be useful. BTW, some platforms and OS-es (like Linux) support routing IPv4 via IPv6 nexthops, this may help to conserve v4 p2p space in some environments. -- Pawel Malachowski @pawmal80
Re: AWS Using Class E IPv4 Address on internal Routing
Back a little bit ago when the thread about running out of RFC-1918 space was going on, I was going to make a suggestion about repurposing the Class E space in the case where one ran out of space, assuming one could get the vendors on your network to support this address range. I sort of discarded the suggestion just because of the whole issue of that range being hardcoded as invalid in so many implementations that this didn't seem all that useful. On the other hand, if you're large enough that you're running out of RFC-1918 space you might be able to exert enough power over select vendors to get them to make this work for selected purposes. Router-to-Router links, especially between higher-end routers seems to be one of those cases that it might be useful. It might be the case that Amazon is already doing this On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 12:07 PM Douglas Fischer wrote: > Has anybody seen that also? > > P.S.: I'm completely in favor of a complementary RFC assing FUTURE USE > exclusively to "Between Routers" Link Networks... > > -- > Douglas Fernando Fischer > Engº de Controle e Automação > -- - Forrest
Re: AWS Using Class E IPv4 Address on internal Routing
https://pasteboard.co/JRHNVKw.png Em seg., 8 de mar. de 2021 às 16:07, Douglas Fischer < fischerdoug...@gmail.com> escreveu: > Has anybody seen that also? > > P.S.: I'm completely in favor of a complementary RFC assing FUTURE USE > exclusively to "Between Routers" Link Networks... > > -- > Douglas Fernando Fischer > Engº de Controle e Automação > -- Douglas Fernando Fischer Engº de Controle e Automação
