Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Pablo Costa]

Hello Dan,

I think that Personar meets your needs

Take a look at:
http://www.perfsonar.net/about/what-is-perfsonar/

Regards,
Pablo

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Dan White  wrote:

> Are there any products you're using which are dedicated to responding to
> customer facing pings?
>
> --
> Dan White
> BTC Broadband
> Network Admin Lead
> Ph  918.366.0248 (direct)   main: (918)366-8000
> Fax 918.366.6610email: dwh...@olp.net
> http://www.btcbroadband.com
>

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Matthew Kaufman]

Personally, I'd think twice before putting a box that does unthrottled
reflection of ICMP packets to their claimed source anywhere, especially not
one with a well-known address.

Matthew Kaufman

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM James Greig  wrote:

> On one of these lists around 6 months ago a Google network engineer
> confirmed they do rate limit icmp (aside from prioritisation).
>
>  Unless there's a real issue here this is more about educating people.
> It's amazing how many still miss interpret trace routes these days.
>
> Kind regards
>
> James Greig
>
> > On 9 Sep 2016, at 23:29, Jon Lewis  wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 9 Sep 2016, Jared Mauch wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 9, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Dan White  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We're being caught up in some sort of peering dispute between Level 3
> and
> >>> Google (in the Dallas area), and we've fielded several calls from
> larger
> >>> customers complaining of 40-50% packet loss (to 8.8.8.8) when there
> appears
> >>> to be no actual service impacting loss.
> >>>
> >>> We currently suggest customers use a Linux server to ping against, or
> >>> another public host.
> >>>
> >>> Ideally we'd like to use a hardware based ICMP system for customer use
> -
> >>> Accedian NIDs are good at this (exceptionally low jitter) accept they
> >>> throttle at 500 pings per second.
> >>
> >> I know that the NETNOD folks did NTP in a FPGA that can do 4x 10GE,
> >> perhaps that card and code could be used to do 40G ICMP responder?
> >
> > The trouble is, LOTS of people want to ping something "out on the
> internet" to verify their connectivity, and things like GOOG's 8.8.8.8 DNS
> servers are a popular lighthouse.  I know from first hand experience
> (dealing with customers complaining about it), that GOOG, at least at some
> of the anycast nodes for the service, polices ICMP echo requests aimed at
> > 8.8.8.8 due to the quantity of those unwanted packets.
> >
> > Having a cheap/small/powerful device that can be used as a ping target,
> and getting the masses to use it are two very different things.
> >
> > Dan, are your customers missing DNS responses, or just echo replies from
> 8.8.8.8?  If the latter, ask what they'd do if thousands of people pinged
> one of their servers constantly.
> >
> > --
> > Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
> > |  therefore you are
> > _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
>
>

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[James Greig]

On one of these lists around 6 months ago a Google network engineer confirmed 
they do rate limit icmp (aside from prioritisation).

 Unless there's a real issue here this is more about educating people. It's 
amazing how many still miss interpret trace routes these days.

Kind regards

James Greig

> On 9 Sep 2016, at 23:29, Jon Lewis  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 9 Sep 2016, Jared Mauch wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 9, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Dan White  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We're being caught up in some sort of peering dispute between Level 3 and
>>> Google (in the Dallas area), and we've fielded several calls from larger
>>> customers complaining of 40-50% packet loss (to 8.8.8.8) when there appears
>>> to be no actual service impacting loss.
>>> 
>>> We currently suggest customers use a Linux server to ping against, or
>>> another public host.
>>> 
>>> Ideally we'd like to use a hardware based ICMP system for customer use -
>>> Accedian NIDs are good at this (exceptionally low jitter) accept they
>>> throttle at 500 pings per second.
>> 
>> I know that the NETNOD folks did NTP in a FPGA that can do 4x 10GE,
>> perhaps that card and code could be used to do 40G ICMP responder?
> 
> The trouble is, LOTS of people want to ping something "out on the internet" 
> to verify their connectivity, and things like GOOG's 8.8.8.8 DNS servers are 
> a popular lighthouse.  I know from first hand experience (dealing with 
> customers complaining about it), that GOOG, at least at some of the anycast 
> nodes for the service, polices ICMP echo requests aimed at
> 8.8.8.8 due to the quantity of those unwanted packets.
> 
> Having a cheap/small/powerful device that can be used as a ping target, and 
> getting the masses to use it are two very different things.
> 
> Dan, are your customers missing DNS responses, or just echo replies from 
> 8.8.8.8?  If the latter, ask what they'd do if thousands of people pinged one 
> of their servers constantly.
> 
> --
> Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
> |  therefore you are
> _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Jon Lewis]

On Fri, 9 Sep 2016, Jared Mauch wrote:




On Sep 9, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Dan White  wrote:

We're being caught up in some sort of peering dispute between Level 3 and
Google (in the Dallas area), and we've fielded several calls from larger
customers complaining of 40-50% packet loss (to 8.8.8.8) when there appears
to be no actual service impacting loss.

We currently suggest customers use a Linux server to ping against, or
another public host.

Ideally we'd like to use a hardware based ICMP system for customer use -
Accedian NIDs are good at this (exceptionally low jitter) accept they
throttle at 500 pings per second.


I know that the NETNOD folks did NTP in a FPGA that can do 4x 10GE,
perhaps that card and code could be used to do 40G ICMP responder?


The trouble is, LOTS of people want to ping something "out on the 
internet" to verify their connectivity, and things like GOOG's 8.8.8.8 
DNS servers are a popular lighthouse.  I know from first hand experience 
(dealing with customers complaining about it), that GOOG, at least at some 
of the anycast nodes for the service, polices ICMP echo requests aimed at

8.8.8.8 due to the quantity of those unwanted packets.

Having a cheap/small/powerful device that can be used as a ping target, 
and getting the masses to use it are two very different things.


Dan, are your customers missing DNS responses, or just echo replies from 
8.8.8.8?  If the latter, ask what they'd do if thousands of people pinged 
one of their servers constantly.


--
 Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
 |  therefore you are
_ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Christopher Morrow]

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:

>
> > On Sep 9, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Dan White  wrote:
> >
> > We're being caught up in some sort of peering dispute between Level 3 and
> > Google (in the Dallas area), and we've fielded several calls from larger
> > customers complaining of 40-50% packet loss (to 8.8.8.8) when there
> appears
> > to be no actual service impacting loss.
> >
> > We currently suggest customers use a Linux server to ping against, or
> > another public host.
> >
> > Ideally we'd like to use a hardware based ICMP system for customer use -
> > Accedian NIDs are good at this (exceptionally low jitter) accept they
> > throttle at 500 pings per second.
>
> I know that the NETNOD folks did NTP in a FPGA that can do 4x 10GE,
> perhaps that card and code could be used to do 40G ICMP responder?
>
>
or, alternately test some useful application instead? I mean, 'wget' will
tell you stats about the bw/etc... apache-bench will as well, and you can
probably whip up some custom python/etc that'd do the same sort of thing.

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Jared Mauch]

> On Sep 9, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Dan White  wrote:
> 
> We're being caught up in some sort of peering dispute between Level 3 and
> Google (in the Dallas area), and we've fielded several calls from larger
> customers complaining of 40-50% packet loss (to 8.8.8.8) when there appears
> to be no actual service impacting loss.
> 
> We currently suggest customers use a Linux server to ping against, or
> another public host.
> 
> Ideally we'd like to use a hardware based ICMP system for customer use -
> Accedian NIDs are good at this (exceptionally low jitter) accept they
> throttle at 500 pings per second. 

I know that the NETNOD folks did NTP in a FPGA that can do 4x 10GE,
perhaps that card and code could be used to do 40G ICMP responder?

- Jared

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Dan White]

We're being caught up in some sort of peering dispute between Level 3 and
Google (in the Dallas area), and we've fielded several calls from larger
customers complaining of 40-50% packet loss (to 8.8.8.8) when there appears
to be no actual service impacting loss.

We currently suggest customers use a Linux server to ping against, or
another public host.

Ideally we'd like to use a hardware based ICMP system for customer use -
Accedian NIDs are good at this (exceptionally low jitter) accept they
throttle at 500 pings per second. 


On 09/09/16 15:00 -0500, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Can you elaborate?

On Sep 9, 2016 2:54 PM, "Dan White"  wrote:


Are there any products you're using which are dedicated to responding to
customer facing pings?


--
Dan White
BTC Broadband
Network Admin Lead
Ph  918.366.0248 (direct)   main: (918)366-8000
Fax 918.366.6610email: dwh...@olp.net
http://www.btcbroadband.com

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Josh Reynolds]

Can you elaborate?

On Sep 9, 2016 2:54 PM, "Dan White"  wrote:

> Are there any products you're using which are dedicated to responding to
> customer facing pings?
>
> --
> Dan White
> BTC Broadband
> Network Admin Lead
> Ph  918.366.0248 (direct)   main: (918)366-8000
> Fax 918.366.6610email: dwh...@olp.net
> http://www.btcbroadband.com
>

Re: Looking for recommendations for a dedicated ping responder

[Laszlo Hanyecz]

On 2016-09-09 19:52, Dan White wrote:

Are there any products you're using which are dedicated to responding to
customer facing pings?


PaaS (pong-as-a-service)?