Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Nick Olsen]

This. Very little will protect you from a direct strike.

Working for a WISP for a long time as a past life, I've seen radios
physically split in half. Chunks of concrete taken out of walls near the
equipment. Black ethernet ports that have functionally soldered themselves
into the jack. Six figures worth of lost gear over the years (Does sound
like much, But at ~$80 a pop for cheap wisp gear. That's a lot of
equipment.)

Outside of a direct strike, You can still melt gear left and right. The fix
is no one solution, But multiple.
1. Shielded Ethernet with proper shielded and bonded ends.
2. Proper Grounding
3. Ethernet Surge Suppressors.
4. Proper Grounding.
5. Proper Grounding.

The key is to make your sensitive electronic equipment a higher resistance
path instead of your grounding system. You're going to get inductance build
up on cables you just have to get it to ground through something that isn't
your site switch/router. And it's going to get there one way or another.
Sometimes this can be harder then one might think. Even considering sinking
your own ground rod, And replacing it every few years. As a ground rod
becomes less and less effective with every strike (Depending on what it's
sunk in). Ethernet Surge Suppressors CAN help. But only in assisting in
getting whatever was already on the cable to ground.

And don't forget ground potential differences between different grounding
systems.

Doing the above will get you through most near by strikes. But all bets are
off on direct strikes. The above can also help you with a ton of other
interference. Like a giant FM transmitter running at 100KW a stones throw
away from your equipment but that's another story for another thread.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 1:34 PM Chris Knipe  wrote:

> Think surge protectors will protect against strikes that is far away, and
> the residual surge it creates.
>
> A direct strike?  Don't think there's anything that will really protect
> against that.
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 7:29 PM  wrote:
>
>>
>> Are "surge protectors" really of much use against lightning? I suspect
>> not, other than minor inductions tho perhaps some are specially
>> designed for lightning. I wouldn't assume, I'd want to see the word
>> "lightning" in the specs.
>>
>> I once had a lightning strike (at Harvard Chemistry), probably just an
>> induction on a wire some idiot had strung between building roofs (I
>> didn't even know it existed) and the board it was attached to's solder
>> was melted and burned, impressive! More impressive was the board
>> mostly worked, it was just doing some weird things which led me to
>> inspect it...oops.
>>
>> My understanding was that the only real protection is an "air gap",
>> which a piece of fiber will provide in essence, and even that better
>> be designed for lightning as it can leap small gaps.
>>
>> Check your insurance, including the deductibles, keep spares on hand.
>>
>> P.S. My grandmother would tell a story about how what sounded like the
>> ever-controversial "ball lightning" came into her home when she was
>> young. Good luck with that!
>>
>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
>>
>> --
>> -Barry Shein
>>
>> Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com |
>> http://www.TheWorld.com
>> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
>> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Chris Knipe
>

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Eric Kuhnke]

Another copper cable considered a "gold standard" for outdoor shielded +
9th ESD drain and ground wire, intended for long term rooftop and tower
installation is Shireen. There's a variety of types.

https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/cables/cat6



On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:30 PM Brandon Martin 
wrote:

> On 8/13/19 2:32 PM, Warren Kumari wrote:
> > This probably won't fully solve your problem, but I run a bunch of
> > Ubiquiti access points and similar -- I suffered a number of lightning
> > related outages, and then started using their TOUGHcable -
> > https://www.ui.com/accessories/toughcable/
>
> While ToughCable isn't bad (especially for the price), if you want
> something REALLY durable both physically and against electrical
> transients, I've been very happy with Primus C6CMXFS-1864BK.  It costs
> quite a bit more than the ToughCable but has real water blocking (which
> means you had better be prepared to deal with "Icky Pic"), heavy
> shielding with drain, meets or exceeds CAT6 (which means you can push
> gigE a bit beyond 100m pretty reliably if you've got a tall tower or a
> hut far away from a tower base), and has 23AWG wire so PoE, especially
> Ubnt's crummy 24V passive POE, can go farther, too.
>
> Be warned it's a bear to terminate.  In addition to the waterblock, the
> cable diameter is too large for typical crimp-on RJ45 ends.  You have to
> either use special ends (which Primus sells, among others) or terminate
> it to a punch block which, while not usually a problem in a hut, is
> often problematic up on a tower.
>
> Ubnt also makes an outdoor fiber media converter I've found useful for
> "small cell" style wISP deployments where I can drag my own fiber to the
> tower/pole and don't want/need a hut or enclosure at the base.  Part
> number is F-POE-G2.  That'll let you get your power and signal
> separated.  I do wish they'd just put SFP slots in their radios, but at
> the price they sell them for, I guess I can't complain too much.  I'd
> put real 802.3af/at PoE higher on the list of wants, honestly.
>
> As to actual surge protectors, I see there have been some other
> suggestions in the list, and I'll defer to them.  I've personally had
> decent luck with just making sure the Ubnt passive POE injectors (which
> I need since I don't usually use their switches) are well grounded to be
> mostly sufficient (along with the tower and hut having proper grounding
> infrastructure).  I've not lost any radios, though I've had some lockups
> requiring power cycle after nearby lightning strikes on some of the
> lower end WA based platforms.  The XC based platforms seem hardier.  My
> sample size isn't huge, though.
>
> I'm usually of the impression that, unless you've got carrier (cellular
> or committed-rate microwave) class wireless gear on the tower or
> aggressive SLAs you have to meet from a wireless PoP, it's probably
> cheaper overall to just take reasonable precautions against lightning
> than it is to try to make things handle a "direct" strike.  Figure in
> the wISP world, tech moves so fast that you're having to put new things
> on the tower at least every 3-5 years anyway, so as long as an
> unscheduled trip up to the tower doesn't cost you $ARM+$LEG, it's
> probably easier to just take a lightning strike that fries everything
> due to extreme proximity as an unscheduled upgrade than the try to
> handle it electrically.
>
> "Nearby" strikes, static, electrical transients on your utility line,
> etc. are a different matter.  Those you can economically protect against
> i.e. the protection will not cost as much or more than the gear and
> service you're protecting.
> --
> Brandon Martin
>

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Brandon Martin]

On 8/13/19 2:32 PM, Warren Kumari wrote:

This probably won't fully solve your problem, but I run a bunch of
Ubiquiti access points and similar -- I suffered a number of lightning
related outages, and then started using their TOUGHcable -
https://www.ui.com/accessories/toughcable/


While ToughCable isn't bad (especially for the price), if you want 
something REALLY durable both physically and against electrical 
transients, I've been very happy with Primus C6CMXFS-1864BK.  It costs 
quite a bit more than the ToughCable but has real water blocking (which 
means you had better be prepared to deal with "Icky Pic"), heavy 
shielding with drain, meets or exceeds CAT6 (which means you can push 
gigE a bit beyond 100m pretty reliably if you've got a tall tower or a 
hut far away from a tower base), and has 23AWG wire so PoE, especially 
Ubnt's crummy 24V passive POE, can go farther, too.


Be warned it's a bear to terminate.  In addition to the waterblock, the 
cable diameter is too large for typical crimp-on RJ45 ends.  You have to 
either use special ends (which Primus sells, among others) or terminate 
it to a punch block which, while not usually a problem in a hut, is 
often problematic up on a tower.


Ubnt also makes an outdoor fiber media converter I've found useful for 
"small cell" style wISP deployments where I can drag my own fiber to the 
tower/pole and don't want/need a hut or enclosure at the base.  Part 
number is F-POE-G2.  That'll let you get your power and signal 
separated.  I do wish they'd just put SFP slots in their radios, but at 
the price they sell them for, I guess I can't complain too much.  I'd 
put real 802.3af/at PoE higher on the list of wants, honestly.


As to actual surge protectors, I see there have been some other 
suggestions in the list, and I'll defer to them.  I've personally had 
decent luck with just making sure the Ubnt passive POE injectors (which 
I need since I don't usually use their switches) are well grounded to be 
mostly sufficient (along with the tower and hut having proper grounding 
infrastructure).  I've not lost any radios, though I've had some lockups 
requiring power cycle after nearby lightning strikes on some of the 
lower end WA based platforms.  The XC based platforms seem hardier.  My 
sample size isn't huge, though.


I'm usually of the impression that, unless you've got carrier (cellular 
or committed-rate microwave) class wireless gear on the tower or 
aggressive SLAs you have to meet from a wireless PoP, it's probably 
cheaper overall to just take reasonable precautions against lightning 
than it is to try to make things handle a "direct" strike.  Figure in 
the wISP world, tech moves so fast that you're having to put new things 
on the tower at least every 3-5 years anyway, so as long as an 
unscheduled trip up to the tower doesn't cost you $ARM+$LEG, it's 
probably easier to just take a lightning strike that fries everything 
due to extreme proximity as an unscheduled upgrade than the try to 
handle it electrically.


"Nearby" strikes, static, electrical transients on your utility line, 
etc. are a different matter.  Those you can economically protect against 
i.e. the protection will not cost as much or more than the gear and 
service you're protecting.

--
Brandon Martin

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Eric Kuhnke]

I would begin by referencing the grounding section here:

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/Lands_ROW_Motorola_R56_2005_manual.pdf

Of utmost importance is that everything is bonded to the same potential.
This means that if they have stuff on a roof, outdoor antennas or APs,
whatever, it ground needs to be bonded to the building's AC electrical
service entrance ground, ufer ground if one exists, and so forth.

This is probably the lowest cost ohm meter that is suitable for real world
use:
https://www.amazon.com/Extech-382252-Ground-Resistance-Tester/dp/B00390G3YA

The WISP community has over the past twenty years of painful experience
learned to use a combination of high quality ethernet surge protectors
(previously mentioned McCown Tech suppressors or their competitors) and
comprehensive grounding.



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 11:23 AM Javier J 
wrote:

> I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by
> lightening.
>
> I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus
> on protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices
> that can't be migrated to fiber optic.
>
> I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never
> shopped for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed
> a solution?
> They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their
> core stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and
> PoE cameras / APs around the property.
> Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their
> connectivity is even more important.
>
> This is a small site, maybe about 200 switch ports, but I would only need
> to protect maybe 12 core ones. but would be something I could use in the
> future with larger deployments.
> it's just a 1Gbe network BTW.
>
> Hope someone with more experience can help make hardware recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - Javier
>

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Alan Buxey]

hi,

have seen and suffered from same.  nearby strikes can cause enough
surge to fry things.  best solution - air-gaps where possible between
devices (eg fibre to link switches),  surge protectors on ethernet
cables where needed (eg feeds from Access points) - and if the APs
have external antennae
then use lightning arrestors on the coax cables.

why main wireless vendors still don't do SFP/SFP+-based APs I don't
know... (would mean only the AP cooks and the edge switch isnt the
victim

alan

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019, Chris Knipe wrote:


Think surge protectors will protect against strikes that is far away, and
the residual surge it creates.

A direct strike?  Don't think there's anything that will really protect
against that.


https://imgur.com/a/dzTVw5a has been posted lately here in a swedish 
fiber-related facebook group.


So even though you might have fiber coming in, remember that both the 
power grid and copper network cables are conductors and can make the 
lightning strike jump between devices. So the OP of this thread is right 
in wanting to protect both the network cables and power cables.


PS. I don't have more details about this specific case.

--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Chris Knipe]

Think surge protectors will protect against strikes that is far away, and
the residual surge it creates.

A direct strike?  Don't think there's anything that will really protect
against that.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 7:29 PM  wrote:

>
> Are "surge protectors" really of much use against lightning? I suspect
> not, other than minor inductions tho perhaps some are specially
> designed for lightning. I wouldn't assume, I'd want to see the word
> "lightning" in the specs.
>
> I once had a lightning strike (at Harvard Chemistry), probably just an
> induction on a wire some idiot had strung between building roofs (I
> didn't even know it existed) and the board it was attached to's solder
> was melted and burned, impressive! More impressive was the board
> mostly worked, it was just doing some weird things which led me to
> inspect it...oops.
>
> My understanding was that the only real protection is an "air gap",
> which a piece of fiber will provide in essence, and even that better
> be designed for lightning as it can leap small gaps.
>
> Check your insurance, including the deductibles, keep spares on hand.
>
> P.S. My grandmother would tell a story about how what sounded like the
> ever-controversial "ball lightning" came into her home when she was
> young. Good luck with that!
>
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
>
> --
> -Barry Shein
>
> Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
>


-- 

Regards,
Chris Knipe

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[bzs]

Are "surge protectors" really of much use against lightning? I suspect
not, other than minor inductions tho perhaps some are specially
designed for lightning. I wouldn't assume, I'd want to see the word
"lightning" in the specs.

I once had a lightning strike (at Harvard Chemistry), probably just an
induction on a wire some idiot had strung between building roofs (I
didn't even know it existed) and the board it was attached to's solder
was melted and burned, impressive! More impressive was the board
mostly worked, it was just doing some weird things which led me to
inspect it...oops.

My understanding was that the only real protection is an "air gap",
which a piece of fiber will provide in essence, and even that better
be designed for lightning as it can leap small gaps.

Check your insurance, including the deductibles, keep spares on hand.

P.S. My grandmother would tell a story about how what sounded like the
ever-controversial "ball lightning" came into her home when she was
young. Good luck with that!

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Måns Nilsson]

Subject: Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes Date: Wed, Aug 14, 
2019 at 02:01:01PM +0200 Quoting Bjørn Mork (bj...@mork.no):
> Måns Nilsson  writes:
> 
> > /Måns, has 6 pairs 9/125 between garage and house at home. 
> 
> Now you made me worry that my single OM4 pair to the garden shed might
> be insufficient ;-)

I have but one comment: "Friends don't let friends run multimode." 

-- 
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE   SA0XLR+46 705 989668
Yow!  I'm having a quadrophonic sensation of two winos alone in a steel mill!


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Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Bjørn Mork]

Måns Nilsson  writes:

> /Måns, has 6 pairs 9/125 between garage and house at home. 

Now you made me worry that my single OM4 pair to the garden shed might
be insufficient ;-)


Bjørn

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Måns Nilsson]

Subject: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes Date: Tue, Aug 13, 2019 
at 02:22:12PM -0400 Quoting Javier J (jav...@advancedmachines.us):
> I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by
> lightening.
> 
> I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus on
> protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices that
> can't be migrated to fiber optic.

If lightning comes so close that it will break things inside the same
facility because they are connected by structured cabling, two things
typically have failed;

* The building as such is not adequately protected.

* There exist too large potential differences within the electrical
  system inside the building.

For #1, telecoms regulations on site grounding and protection give good,
albeit expensive advice. The most important part is that all cabling
enter the facility with its screens at common potential. The reason
is that most blown equipment comes from in-ground potential difference
between different cables. (I've poured shattered IC's out of a poor ADSL
router after such a strike. ) If that potential difference is cancelled
upon entry in the facility by bonding all grounds the risk is minimised.

For #2, it is mostly solved by fixing #1, but it is proper to fix it by
mesh-connecting grounds on all equipment together. If there is a 10mm^2
(around AWG7) bonding conductor parallel to the 0,14mm^2 (AWG25) drain
wire in the foil screen, which way will the current take?
Do note that star grounds are popular, but they're impossible to maintain
and typically don't work at high frequiencies, which will lessen their
efficiency against fast-rising transients. Mesh grounds are better at
conducting high frequencies and are easier to maintain.

Having several power utility feeds into same facility will of course
exacerbate the problem, which is one of the reasons it is illegal
in Sweden.

If you need to cross between two buildings, copper should be
rejected. Fiber is so much better. And pays for itself immediately upon
first strike survived.

/Måns, has 6 pairs 9/125 between garage and house at home. 
-- 
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE   SA0XLR+46 705 989668
I feel partially hydrogenated!


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Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Jared Mauch]

I would try to isolate it with something like the RBFTC11 or similar if you 
can.  They’re great boxes, but as with all things lightning you usually can’t 
protect from everything.  I’ve had a lightning hit cause some major issues 
before at a tower site.

You do what you can and keep suitable spares at the ready.  You never know why 
there will be a failure.

- Jared

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:56 PM, Matthew Crocker  wrote:
> 
>  
> Could you use a transceiver for the 1000Base-T?  copper <-> fiber <-> copper 
> that will create an ‘air gap’ on the data circuit.   You still run the risk 
> of a lightning strike entering through the transceiver power.   You could 
> filter that through a -48VDC power supply, rectifier/inverter pair.
>  
>  
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Javier J 
> 
> Date: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:23 PM
> To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
> Subject: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes
>  
> I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by 
> lightening.
>  
> I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus on 
> protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices that 
> can't be migrated to fiber optic.
>  
> I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never 
> shopped for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed a 
> solution?
> They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their 
> core stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and PoE 
> cameras / APs around the property.
> Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their 
> connectivity is even more important.
>  
> This is a small site, maybe about 200 switch ports, but I would only need to 
> protect maybe 12 core ones. but would be something I could use in the future 
> with larger deployments.
> it's just a 1Gbe network BTW.
>  
> Hope someone with more experience can help make hardware recommendations?
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> - Javier

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Matthew Crocker]

Could you use a transceiver for the 1000Base-T?  copper <-> fiber <-> copper 
that will create an ‘air gap’ on the data circuit.   You still run the risk of 
a lightning strike entering through the transceiver power.   You could filter 
that through a -48VDC power supply, rectifier/inverter pair.


From: NANOG  on behalf of Javier J 

Date: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:23 PM
To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
Subject: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by 
lightening.

I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus on 
protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices that can't 
be migrated to fiber optic.

I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never shopped 
for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed a solution?
They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their core 
stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and PoE 
cameras / APs around the property.
Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their connectivity 
is even more important.

This is a small site, maybe about 200 switch ports, but I would only need to 
protect maybe 12 core ones. but would be something I could use in the future 
with larger deployments.
it's just a 1Gbe network BTW.

Hope someone with more experience can help make hardware recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

- Javier

RE: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Kevin McCormick]

The university I worked at used ITW Linx surge arrestors for years, never had 
any issues.

https://www.itwlinx.com/products/surgegate-modular-communications-surge-protectors/cat6-75z

The model above will work with POE+, careful of their cheaper CAT5-POE and 
CAT6-POE models as they are not designed for POE+ and did not work well with 
Cisco POE.

Never had issues with the CAT6-75 model, worked perfect with Cisco equipment.

We also used the CAT6-LAN models where POE was not needed, as they clamp to 16v 
vs the 75v of the CAT6-75 model.

Thank you,

Kevin McCormick

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Javier J
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 1:22 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by 
lightening.

I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus on 
protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices that can't 
be migrated to fiber optic.

I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never shopped 
for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed a solution?
They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their core 
stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and PoE 
cameras / APs around the property.
Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their connectivity 
is even more important.

This is a small site, maybe about 200 switch ports, but I would only need to 
protect maybe 12 core ones. but would be something I could use in the future 
with larger deployments.
it's just a 1Gbe network BTW.

Hope someone with more experience can help make hardware recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

- Javier

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Nate Burke]

You will want to check out these.

https://mccowntech.wptstaging.space/product-category/surge-protectors/rack-mount-surge-protectors/

They are made to fit into the 1U APC Chassis PRM24.

We rely on them heavily in the WISP Market.  I've had equipment on a 
tower that was physically destroyed by lightening, and the Router Port 
on the other side of these arrestors was just fine.


On 8/13/2019 1:51 PM, Rob Pickering wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 19:23, Javier J > wrote:


I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close
by lightening.

I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to
focus on protecting Ethernet connections between core
switching/other devices that can't be migrated to fiber optic.

I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have
never shopped for anything like this before. Was wondering if
anyone has deployed a solution?
They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all
of their core stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking /
connectivity and PoE cameras / APs around the property.
Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their
connectivity is even more important.


The correct answer is use fiber.

If you really, really can't then APC make a single port transient 
arrestor p/n PNET1GB.


I've used these in the past for a PoE phone in a wooden gatehouse hut 
right on the 100M max length with no power for active kit and they 
seem to work fine. I'm using one at the moment for a PoE access point 
in my garden shed. Not sure I would bring an inter building link in 
copper onto an expensive core switch though.


Don't know of anything in higher density than "one port".

--
Rob Pickering, r...@pickering.org 

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Bill Woodcock]

> The correct answer is use fiber.
> Not sure I would bring an inter building link in copper onto an expensive 
> core switch though.

Yeah.

> Don't know of anything in higher density than "one port”.

This on Amazon:

https://smile.amazon.com/Protector-Lightning-Suppressor-Protection-TP323/dp/B07P3XDXN3/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=apc+PNET1GB=1565722471=gateway=8-6

…but I haven’t used it, so can’t specifically recommend.

-Bill



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Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Larry Smith]

You might look at mccowntech.com,
they make surge suppressors geared toward
the wireless provider market which are pretty good.
(not associated, we just use their products).

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Tue August 13 2019 13:22, Javier J wrote:
> I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by
> lightening.
>
> I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus on
> protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices that
> can't be migrated to fiber optic.
>
> I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never
> shopped for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed
> a solution?
> They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their
> core stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and
> PoE cameras / APs around the property.
> Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their
> connectivity is even more important.
>
> This is a small site, maybe about 200 switch ports, but I would only need
> to protect maybe 12 core ones. but would be something I could use in the
> future with larger deployments.
> it's just a 1Gbe network BTW.
>
> Hope someone with more experience can help make hardware recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - Javier

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Blake Hudson]

+1 on the Ubiquiti surge protectors specifically designed for PoE gear 
in mind (other brands like Cambium that are outdoor AP or camera 
oriented may work equally as well). I would also recommend continuing to 
isolate and protect as much as possible. For example, connecting your 
outdoor PoE cameras or APs to dedicated PoE switches that connect back 
to the core or aggregation switches via fiber. The PoE switches powering 
the outdoor gear could be connected to power on dedicated PDUs that are 
connected to dedicated circuits. I would imagine that PDUs that provide 
surge protection or on-line/line-interactive UPS units would be 
preferred over standby UPS units or PDUs that do not provide surge 
protection. Would also be nice to keep spare parts on-site or 
conveniently accessible, but not connected to power (e.g. focus on cold 
spares before focusing on hot spares).


--Blake

Warren Kumari wrote on 8/13/2019 1:32 PM:

This probably won't fully solve your problem, but I run a bunch of
Ubiquiti access points and similar -- I suffered a number of lightning
related outages, and then started using their TOUGHcable -
https://www.ui.com/accessories/toughcable/
(don't forget to also get the special jacks / ends). Since changing to
this I've had no more issues. You should also look at
https://www.ui.com/accessories/ethernet-surge-protector/- I haven't
needed them, but...

W



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:23 PM Javier J  wrote:

I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by 
lightening.

I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus on 
protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices that can't 
be migrated to fiber optic.

I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never shopped 
for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed a solution?
They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their core 
stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and PoE 
cameras / APs around the property.
Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their connectivity 
is even more important.

This is a small site, maybe about 200 switch ports, but I would only need to 
protect maybe 12 core ones. but would be something I could use in the future 
with larger deployments.
it's just a 1Gbe network BTW.

Hope someone with more experience can help make hardware recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

- Javier

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Rob Pickering]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 19:23, Javier J  wrote:

> I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by
> lightening.
>
> I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus
> on protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices
> that can't be migrated to fiber optic.
>
> I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never
> shopped for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed
> a solution?
> They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their
> core stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and
> PoE cameras / APs around the property.
> Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their
> connectivity is even more important.
>

The correct answer is use fiber.

If you really, really can't then APC make a single port transient arrestor
p/n PNET1GB.

I've used these in the past for a PoE phone in a wooden gatehouse hut right
on the 100M max length with no power for active kit and they seem to work
fine. I'm using one at the moment for a PoE access point in my garden shed.
Not sure I would bring an inter building link in copper onto an expensive
core switch though.

Don't know of anything in higher density than "one port".

--
Rob Pickering, r...@pickering.org

Re: Protecting 1Gb Ethernet From Lightning Strikes

[Warren Kumari]

This probably won't fully solve your problem, but I run a bunch of
Ubiquiti access points and similar -- I suffered a number of lightning
related outages, and then started using their TOUGHcable -
https://www.ui.com/accessories/toughcable/
(don't forget to also get the special jacks / ends). Since changing to
this I've had no more issues. You should also look at
https://www.ui.com/accessories/ethernet-surge-protector/- I haven't
needed them, but...

W



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:23 PM Javier J  wrote:
>
> I'm working with a client site that has been hit twice, very close by 
> lightening.
>
> I did lots of electrical work/upgrades/grounding but now I want to focus on 
> protecting Ethernet connections between core switching/other devices that 
> can't be migrated to fiber optic.
>
> I was looking for surge protection devices for Ethernet but have never 
> shopped for anything like this before. Was wondering if anyone has deployed a 
> solution?
> They don't have a large presence on site (I have been moving all of their 
> core stuff to AWS) but they still have core networking / connectivity and PoE 
> cameras / APs around the property.
> Since migrating their onsite servers/infra to the cloud, now their 
> connectivity is even more important.
>
> This is a small site, maybe about 200 switch ports, but I would only need to 
> protect maybe 12 core ones. but would be something I could use in the future 
> with larger deployments.
> it's just a 1Gbe network BTW.
>
> Hope someone with more experience can help make hardware recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - Javier



-- 
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf