Re: SixXS Contact
[several replies in one (hence cc's) to not clutter the list with non-really-nanog stuff, but it kinda deserves a reply, reply-to set to where these things should be going in the first place] [TLDR: contact = i...@sixxs.net, mail queue is long, human time is limited, if you have lots of users some will feel wronged] On 2013-06-27 16:17, K. M. Peterson wrote: Are there any SixXS admins who read this list? Several, but it is not the contact point. Note that if you had searched the NANOG archives, or googled, or read the SixXS website this would have been clear. But let me nevertheless answer these comments and then return to normal live, real work and then in our spare times processing the request queues and the insane backlog of email. I seem to have committed a faux pas with respect to requesting an account, and I'm not getting any responses to my attempts (to i...@sixxs.net) to clear up the issue. In that mailbox there are currently 6396 unreplied messages, this is spread over the last several years though (and some back-dated spam that passed the filters creeps in there too). We used to have a near real time statistic at http://www.sixxs.net/misc/operstats/ indicating that, due to infrastructure changes though this does not show anymore there though. Your message is thus among those unreplied ones (I quickly see 3 in the mail queue). Unfortunately things that are not automated have to be handled by humans and time is a rather limited resource (and getting good people who help along is a very tricky thing as we have found out; hints appreciated). We would love to have more time for SixXS, but there are unfortunately only 24 hours in a day and many of that is used for real life. Just in case: we make it a point to not prefer handling one persons case over the rest of them. They all get handled in turn. (LIFO style in typical case, and sometimes we then jump back a lot to resolve a few of those too, but pretty much at random) On 2013-06-27 16:47, Anthony Williams wrote: Can I piggy back on that inquiry and request a reset of my ISK points after committing a faux pas with respect to going negative from down v6 tunnels and deleting. Now to create a new tunnel I need positive ISK points and I'm stilling at -10 with no way to boost my numbers. :( Reset Points: AWJ11-SIXXS Oh Pretty please w/sugar on top. :) You deleted the two working tunnels you had, adding a few credits does not resolve your problem as you have been answered in email. Resetting your credit would quite well make the credit system useless as people could then just waste it all, not maintain their connection and then ask for more, but we have other ways of solving problems like this. On 2013-06-27 21:43, Måns Nilsson wrote: Personally, even though I'm on the same IRC channel as one of the admins and could have all support I want Extremely interesting statement. As I am sure you are not on the IRC channel that I do actually idle at... and even if you where, SixXS does not do help on IRC or for specific people, see above and the site. On 2013-06-28 13:48, Måns Nilsson wrote: Apparently I'm not on the same IRC channel as an admin anymore: Just let me state that the day after I quit working with SIXXS I got myself a HE tunnel I am really wondering which admin you mean, and working is impossible as it is just all done in free time. Please read the about page, and you'll realize there are only two people who 'are' SixXS, both of us have lots of native connectivity and for the left-over locations have a wide array of SixXS PoPs to choose out of thus no need for alternates; though in case of throughput/latency being better and the need would be there that would of course be a better and thus logical choice. Also note that anybody who really is with SixXS would write SixXS and not everything in caps as they know the difference in writing style and the reason why it is written that way. (The same trick with people writing TOR which would mean Top Of Rack, not Tor as in Tor Project) On 2013-06-27 22:00, Andrew D Kirch wrote:[..] Yes it's a private service, yes it's run by volunteers, BUT SIXXS is publicly putting themselves forward as ambassadors for IPv6. The main target is to create a common portal to help company engineers find their way with IPv6 networks deploying IPv6 to their customers http://www.sixxs.net/faq/sixxs/?faq=enduser in a rapid and controllable fashion. (Sixxs website) and For whom? For everybody. The average joe and jane can use AICCU so that they can use IPv6 very quick and easy. (SIXXS website about us). That is all correct. And I am actually extremely convinced that we have overreached every single one of the goals that we have set out to achieve: http://www.sixxs.net/faq/sixxs/?faq=why I'm neither Joe nor Jane, nor am I Tom, Dick, or Harry, and quite frankly SIXXS has been abrasive and abusive in my attempt to use their service. Yes, it is really hard for some people to
Re: SixXS Contact
Subject: Re: SixXS Contact Date: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 09:43:19PM +0200 Quoting Måns Nilsson (mansa...@besserwisser.org): Personally, even though I'm on the same IRC channel as one of the admins and could have all support I want, I went with HE. Zero trouble. Excellent service. I'm peering with them at work, as does my colo provider, så have great connectivity. And, in v6, renumbering is easy (RIGHT? ;) so swapping providers is no pain. Now, Owen, where's my T-shirt? ;-) Apparently I'm not on the same IRC channel as an admin anymore: Just let me state that the day after I quit working with SIXXS I got myself a HE tunnel -- Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668 The FALAFEL SANDWICH lands on my HEAD and I become a VEGETARIAN ... signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SixXS Contact
Can I piggy back on that inquiry and request a reset of my ISK points after committing a faux pas with respect to going negative from down v6 tunnels and deleting. Now to create a new tunnel I need positive ISK points and I'm stilling at -10 with no way to boost my numbers. :( Reset Points: AWJ11-SIXXS Oh Pretty please w/sugar on top. :) -Alby On 6/27/2013 10:17 AM, K. M. Peterson wrote: Are there any SixXS admins who read this list? I seem to have committed a faux pas with respect to requesting an account, and I'm not getting any responses to my attempts (to i...@sixxs.net) to clear up the issue. I appreciate the response, and apologize for this intrusion... _KMP
Re: SixXS Contact
Subject: Re: SixXS Contact Date: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 10:47:51AM -0400 Quoting Anthony Williams (alby.willi...@verizon.com): Can I piggy back on that inquiry and request a reset of my ISK points after committing a faux pas with respect to going negative from down v6 tunnels and deleting. Now to create a new tunnel I need positive ISK points and I'm stilling at -10 with no way to boost my numbers. :( Reset Points: AWJ11-SIXXS Oh Pretty please w/sugar on top. :) Personally, even though I'm on the same IRC channel as one of the admins and could have all support I want, I went with HE. Zero trouble. Excellent service. I'm peering with them at work, as does my colo provider, så have great connectivity. And, in v6, renumbering is easy (RIGHT? ;) so swapping providers is no pain. Now, Owen, where's my T-shirt? ;-) -- Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668 If Robert Di Niro assassinates Walter Slezak, will Jodie Foster marry Bonzo?? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SixXS Contact
On 6/27/2013 3:43 PM, Måns Nilsson wrote: Subject: Re: SixXS Contact Date: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 10:47:51AM -0400 Quoting Anthony Williams (alby.willi...@verizon.com): Can I piggy back on that inquiry and request a reset of my ISK points after committing a faux pas with respect to going negative from down v6 tunnels and deleting. Now to create a new tunnel I need positive ISK points and I'm stilling at -10 with no way to boost my numbers. :( Reset Points: AWJ11-SIXXS Oh Pretty please w/sugar on top. :) Personally, even though I'm on the same IRC channel as one of the admins and could have all support I want, I went with HE. Zero trouble. Excellent service. I'm peering with them at work, as does my colo provider, så have great connectivity. And, in v6, renumbering is easy (RIGHT? ;) so swapping providers is no pain. Now, Owen, where's my T-shirt? ;-) Yes it's a private service, yes it's run by volunteers, BUT SIXXS is publicly putting themselves forward as ambassadors for IPv6. The main target is to create a common portal to help company engineers find their way with IPv6 networks deploying IPv6 to their customers http://www.sixxs.net/faq/sixxs/?faq=enduser in a rapid and controllable fashion. (Sixxs website) and For whom? For everybody. The average joe and jane can use AICCU so that they can use IPv6 very quick and easy. (SIXXS website about us). I'm neither Joe nor Jane, nor am I Tom, Dick, or Harry, and quite frankly SIXXS has been abrasive and abusive in my attempt to use their service. Their stewardship of IPv6 is quite frankly horrible. When people on NANOG are complaining about lack of response, SIXXS responds with silence or we're a volunteer group. I was told to go screw myself because I'd had a work account years ago and tried to set up a personal one not even realizing the work account was still active (totally allowed by their TOS), my account was still canceled, and three weeks later Jeroen essentially told me I could go screw myself. I'm the community manager at Zenoss and I'd get fired for treating my users like that. I think it's _LONG_ past time we started asking how severely has SIXXS's negative behavior slowed the adoption of IPv6?, and is this behavior acceptable? For me, their service is long past worse than no service at all. Andrew
Re: SIXXS contact
Op 27-4-2011 0:38, Andrew Kirch schreef: On 4/26/2011 12:11 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote: I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth. I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter? This same silence you mention is also my personal experience. I work on a open source firewall project in my spare time and found the issue annoying, as such I've decided to forgot Sixxs (dynamic) tunnel support and recommend the free Hurricane Electric tunnelbroker instead. I can spend my time better in getting OpenVPN working with IPv6 then waiting to accumulate kredits(tm). Kind regards, Seth
Re: SIXXS contact
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote: I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter? So you would prefer that they shut down their service rather than provide current level of support? -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se
Re: SIXXS contact
On 27 Apr 2011, at 08:19, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote: I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter? So you would prefer that they shut down their service rather than provide current level of support? I've had very prompt and good replies from SixXS when I've contacted them. Equally students I know who use HE brokers are very happy with their service, e.g. HE have added features in response to feedback. Tim
Re: SIXXS contact
- Original Message - From: Mikael Abrahamsson swm...@swm.pp.se On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote: I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter? So you would prefer that they shut down their service rather than provide current level of support? That sounds like the argument he's making, and there's some credit that should be given to it, yes. IPv6 is about, necessarily, to make the turn to being a consumer service. Consumers are *much* less tolerant of shaky implementations of new technologies that they can't see why they would need anyway. I call your attention, for an example, to electronically-assisted voting. There are half a dozen really good reasons why that would be A Good Thing... but the commercially-inspired miserable first 2 or 3 implementations of it have probably absorbed all of the public's tolerance of it for another 10 or 20 years. Cheers, -- jra
Re: SIXXS contact
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote: On 4/25/2011 4:07 AM, Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote: Hi! would someone at SIXXS please contact me off-list regarding an account issue? Contact The main contact address for SixXS is i...@sixxs.net, which is the sole email address one should use to contact SixXS. Non-English, impolite, clueless, UCE and HTML email gets discarded automatically. The official language used is English, due to archiving issues and the international effort put into SixXS. And you naturally trued that one before sending here, right? Bye, Raymond. Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues. Echo that. IPv6 bgp peering for distributed looking glass has been down for some 6 months or so now. No responses via any channel. It's sad because distributed looking glass has been very useful. -- Pekka Savola You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oykingdom bleeds. Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
Re: SIXXS contact
On 4/25/11 11:28 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously. Having run a volunteer service before, I can tell you there are a lot of people complaining about the free service. I would imagine the only alternative to doing what they do now is to either get more money and resources (sponsorship or paying customers) or to shut the service down. What is a preferrable service, a not great service, or no service at all? I know I wouldn't have the energy to handle all the abuse I see them getting, I would just tell people to go away and go home and watch tv. I'm happy they have the energy to do what they're doing. That's why I asked for SLA level services I can point people to who complain. I'd imagine most of them wouldn't want to pay anyway, but I hope it'll make them think about complaining too much about a free service. I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth. I confirmed that HE will offer paid tunnel services, however I think I have a good idea of why Andrew was having crazy ping times to some of the tunnel servers. Literally anything I do from my home DSL through qwest that goes through Seattle sometimes doubles or triples the latency as soon as I enter the GBLX network. If I go through my T1, which ends up taking routes through TWTelecom, latency is in the low 20ms-40ms. I have a feeling that there's severe capacity issues on certain networks (may it be specifically between qwest and gblx, or just gblx in general), and unfortunately the lack of ISPs taking native IPv6 seriously puts our dependencies on ipv4 networks that are being held together with duct tape and twine. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org
Re: SIXXS contact
On 4/26/2011 12:11 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote: I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth. I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter? Andrew
Re: SIXXS contact
On Apr 26, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote: On 4/26/2011 12:11 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote: I've run a volunteer/free hosting service since 1997 or so - it never ceases to amaze me how people will complain about free things, but when you ask them to pony up a little monthly support its like you killed their puppy. I just term people who are more of a hassle then they are worth. I'm not complaining, but I would point out that if these free brokers are the public face of IPv6 for many hobbyists (and much of the various software run on/over the internet is written by volunteers, and/or given away for free), we aren't going to get there. The big deafening silence from SIXXS is really unfortunate in that it does actively affect my opinion of IPv6, my willingness to spend time implementing it, pestering my upstream about it, or having my business give a damn about it. Yes I know they're volunteers, but how much does that matter? I can't say about SIXXS but HE has been great to me. If it wasn't for them I would be out in the cold since neither ATT nor Brighthouse (my 2 options at my colo) can even spell IPv6! Tom
Re: SIXXS contact
On 4/26/2011 8:56 PM, TR Shaw wrote: On Apr 26, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote: I can't say about SIXXS but HE has been great to me. If it wasn't for them I would be out in the cold since neither ATT nor Brighthouse (my 2 options at my colo) can even spell IPv6! Tom My goal here isn't to bash HE, just to note that I have _REALLY_ bad routes to it. I had no trouble setting up a tunnel with them. Andrew
Re: SIXXS contact
On 2011-04-26 20:00, Andrew Kirch wrote: My goal here isn't to bash HE, just to note that I have _REALLY_ bad routes to it. I had no trouble setting up a tunnel with them. Have you checked Gogo6 at all? Jima
Re: SIXXS contact
Hi! would someone at SIXXS please contact me off-list regarding an account issue? Contact The main contact address for SixXS is i...@sixxs.net, which is the sole email address one should use to contact SixXS. Non-English, impolite, clueless, UCE and HTML email gets discarded automatically. The official language used is English, due to archiving issues and the international effort put into SixXS. And you naturally trued that one before sending here, right? Bye, Raymond.
Re: SIXXS contact
On 4/25/2011 4:07 AM, Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote: Hi! would someone at SIXXS please contact me off-list regarding an account issue? Contact The main contact address for SixXS is i...@sixxs.net, which is the sole email address one should use to contact SixXS. Non-English, impolite, clueless, UCE and HTML email gets discarded automatically. The official language used is English, due to archiving issues and the international effort put into SixXS. And you naturally trued that one before sending here, right? Bye, Raymond. Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues. Andrew
Re: SIXXS contact
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote: Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues. I see this quite a lot. I guess one gets what one pays for (or doesn't pay for). Speaking of which, is there an IPv6 tunnel broker that actually charges money and where one can get real support? I would like to be able to refer people who complain about SIXXS and others offering support below expectation from some users. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se
Re: SIXXS contact
On 4/25/2011 3:51 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote: Yes, repeatedly. The response was non-existent, or simply unfortunate, so I'm trying other avenues. I see this quite a lot. I guess one gets what one pays for (or doesn't pay for). Speaking of which, is there an IPv6 tunnel broker that actually charges money and where one can get real support? I would like to be able to refer people who complain about SIXXS and others offering support below expectation from some users. This is a valid point. We want people to adopt IPv6, and to do this, they either have to be a huge ISP, or deal with 400ms ping times (one broker), or harassing/abusive volunteers (another broker). Now, I understand they're volunteers, I understand it's their own time, I understand that we are all (myself included) complete morons wasting their time. But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously. Andrew
Re: SIXXS contact
On 4/25/11 8:12 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote: Speaking of which, is there an IPv6 tunnel broker that actually charges money and where one can get real support? I would like to be able to refer people who complain about SIXXS and others offering support below expectation from some users. This is a valid point. We want people to adopt IPv6, and to do this, they either have to be a huge ISP, or deal with 400ms ping times (one broker), or harassing/abusive volunteers (another broker). Now, I understand they're volunteers, I understand it's their own time, I understand that we are all (myself included) complete morons wasting their time. But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously. Andrew I do believe Hurricane Electric may offer paid ipv6 services, including tunnel. Could always drop them a line and see. Up until last month when native ipv6 came online with our upstream, we had a ipv6 bgp peer tunnel from them - only issues were mostly bugs in foundry's ipv6 code on our end. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org
Re: SIXXS contact
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Andrew Kirch wrote: But if these two groups want people to take IPv6 seriously (you know, before the ceiling comes down on our heads), maybe they should take it seriously. Having run a volunteer service before, I can tell you there are a lot of people complaining about the free service. I would imagine the only alternative to doing what they do now is to either get more money and resources (sponsorship or paying customers) or to shut the service down. What is a preferrable service, a not great service, or no service at all? I know I wouldn't have the energy to handle all the abuse I see them getting, I would just tell people to go away and go home and watch tv. I'm happy they have the energy to do what they're doing. That's why I asked for SLA level services I can point people to who complain. I'd imagine most of them wouldn't want to pay anyway, but I hope it'll make them think about complaining too much about a free service. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se
