[neonixie-l] Re: Looking for symbol tubes

[martin martin]

The Burroughs tubes I have contain the following symbols:
Hz
m
u
K
there may be others but that's all I can see

m

On Friday, March 22, 2019 at 4:11:51 PM UTC-7, Terry Bowman wrote:
>
> I'm interested in Nixies with symbols instead of numerals. I already have 
> all of the Soviet ones.
>
> I've looked at the databases on the web (thanks for all your hard work, 
> guys) and there seem to be quite a few. Does anyone have a text file or 
> spreadsheet with manufacturer, part number and symbols? I don't want to 
> have to cut and paste dozens of pieces of information into a list by hand.
>
> I'm not really into tubes with just plus, minus and sine which narrows it 
> down quite a bit.
>
> Thanks in advance and hats off to this wonderful group.
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> Q: Should car stereo speakers be pointed to the rear for more thrust or up 
> for more traction?
>
> A. On long trips, the 20- to 30% improvement in gas mileage you might get 
> with speakers pointing to the rear is certainly worthwhile. On the other 
> hand, if you drive on snow or ice, the extra traction of speakers pointing 
> upward gives you added control.
>
> Don Lancaster
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Looking for symbol tubes

[Jon D.]

>From my spreadsheet:

left side = A,D,K,M; right side = C,R,V,Ω

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Re: [neonixie-l] Looking for symbol tubes

[Alex]

Does anybody know what symbols these B-54364 tubes show, I cant find any 
info online for them at all?
Dangerous game, offering free tubes on a collectors forum, like walking 
into an AA meeting with a crate of beer... :-) 

On Sunday, 24 March 2019 15:46:37 UTC, martin martin wrote:
>
> yes
> that's the same ones I have a box of
> How many do you want?  Free. just cover shipping.
>
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:43 AM Kevin A.  > wrote:
>
>> Here are some odd Burroughs symbol tubes I found on ebay; 
>> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F252453265409
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 6:50 PM Mac Doktor > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On Mar 23, 2019, at 6:17 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. <
>>> jfre...@gmail.com > wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > My site is based on a database, i can run a query about symbol tubes 
>>> and send you a excel file if that would help
>>> > 
>>> > let me know
>>>
>>> Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I've seen your site and it's 
>>> excellent. I greatly appreciate all the hard work you put into it.
>>>
>>> The only downside: I'll be spending more money on tubes.  8D
>>>
>>>
>>> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
>>> "The Mac Doctor"
>>>
>>> "For 30 years I have been trying to set the story straight about the 
>>> name HAL coming from IBM with one letter added to each. That was pure 
>>> coincidence. HAL stands for Heuristic Algorithmic computer."—Arthur C. 
>>> Clarke, 2001
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] 8971/7971 tube, strange failure mode

[Jeff Walton]

Your photo shows a tube that is being deprived of high voltage.  Looks the same 
as when the high voltage powers down the 7971 tubes on a MOD-SIX.   Since your 
tube shows this condition in any position, I would be looking to see if there 
is a segment that is bleeding/shorting to ground and starves the other segments 
of HV.  Very odd failure mechanism when it seems to work and then fails.  Try 
all segments on to see if you can reproduce the failure and then switch the 
segments on at a time.  Your clock has this tube segment test mode.

 

Jeff 

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Kevin A.
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:01 PM
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] 8971/7971 tube, strange failure mode

 

I'll have him try that next. Should be easy to do since the software provides a 
segment test routine. 

 

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 2:55 PM Thomas Kummer  wrote:

Does it do it when a particular cathode, or number is attempted to be lit? 

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 24, 2019, at 14:48, Kevin A.  wrote:

Yup, the same tube does the same thing when in a different position. 

 

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 2:34 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:

If you move the tube to a different position does it do the same thing?

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 24, 2019, at 10:44, Kevin A.  wrote:

Here is a picture of the tube when it experiences failure. 

 

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:43 PM Kevin A.  wrote:

Hi guys,

I've got a friend who has an 8971 clock. When the clock is first powered on, 
the tubes work fine. 10 seconds into running, the last tube (in position 6) 
starts fizzling out. However, when you turn the clock off and on again, the one 
tube repeats the same failure mode after 10 seconds again. It doesn't appear to 
be out gassed, but maybe there is a strange short in it somewhere?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

Thanks,
Kevin 

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<574986827.jpg>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

[Paul Andrews]

@Chuck: It is 6.3VRMS, so more like 8V after rectification, but yes I think 
in reality it is a bit fine with load.

@nixiebunny: I haven't tried a Schottky bridge, just simulated one.

@jfeng: I hadn't considered a voltage doubler. I tried this 
one and with a 6800uF 
cap on the output it produces a steady output voltage.

This leads me to my next observation. I was feeding the output of the 7805 
into ESP32 pico, wired up with an SD card reader and MAX98357A class D 
amplifier driving a small speaker. Even with the voltage doubler solution 
(and with a nice steady output voltage from that of around 13V), the pico 
pulled the 5V line down to around 4.7V whenever it tried to read the SD 
card (or play sound?), which seemed to be enough to cause the PICO to 
reset. I suspect it is trying to draw more current than the 7805 can 
supply, but I don't have a way to measure that ATM. A test with a Wemos 
driving 8 neopixels works fine.

Complicating things slightly is the fact that I have this all wired up on 
breadboards, and there are definitely losses involved with the wiring there.

The 6.3V is the output of a heater stage of a transformer I am using. I 
would like to try to use this if possible, but if not then I could use a 5V 
SMPS module such as this 
one, but that seems a 
little defeatist given that I have 6.3V RMS just lying around anyway, and 
who knows how stable the output of that module is if I get up to around 1A?

On Sunday, March 24, 2019 at 10:46:22 AM UTC-4, Paul Andrews wrote:
>
> I want to create a 5V/1A regulated power supply from a 6.3V RMS input. I 
> can get a regular diode bridge in a 4 pin DIP package, but it is marginal 
> and my simulations and actual tests show that the forward voltage drop is 
> too much under even a light load. My simulations show that a Schottky diode 
> bridge works OK, and I can get an SMD 4 pin package with a total forward 
> voltage drop of around 0.8V. However, I have seen designs for active MOSFET 
> full-wave rectifiers, so I figured I might as well try to go that route.
>
> I came across two potential ICs to help. One is the LT4320 and the other 
> is the FDMQ8205. The LT4320 uses external FETs, but the killer seems to be 
> that the minimum output voltage is 9V. The FDMQ8205 has internal FETs, but 
> I can't figure out how I would use it in a regular full-wave bridge 
> rectifier. It has AC inputs and gate drive inputs and I'm not sure what the 
> gate drive inputs should be. In note 4 in the datasheet 
> they show a wiring 
> diagram that connects the AC input to the gate inputs, but I can't tell if 
> that is a topology that would provide full wave rectification, or if it is 
> just something used for testing.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with active bridges at these voltages, or 
> with these ICs? Is there an alternative I should be looking at? Should I 
> just stick with the Schottky diode version?
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: RFT date codes

[Jon]

Not definitively. However, at least some of the RFT dekatrons have codes 
that fit with a YWW date code (least significant digit of the year, two 
digits for the week of construction within that year).

Jon.

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Re: [neonixie-l] 8971/7971 tube, strange failure mode

[Kevin A.]

I'll have him try that next. Should be easy to do since the software
provides a segment test routine.

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 2:55 PM Thomas Kummer  wrote:

> Does it do it when a particular cathode, or number is attempted to be lit?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 24, 2019, at 14:48, Kevin A.  wrote:
>
> Yup, the same tube does the same thing when in a different position.
>
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 2:34 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:
>
>> If you move the tube to a different position does it do the same thing?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 24, 2019, at 10:44, Kevin A. 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Here is a picture of the tube when it experiences failure.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:43 PM Kevin A. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> I've got a friend who has an 8971 clock. When the clock is first powered
>>> on, the tubes work fine. 10 seconds into running, the last tube (in
>>> position 6) starts fizzling out. However, when you turn the clock off and
>>> on again, the one tube repeats the same failure mode after 10 seconds
>>> again. It doesn't appear to be out gassed, but maybe there is a strange
>>> short in it somewhere?
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kevin
>>>
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[neonixie-l] Re: A-106 Dekatron question

[Jon]

Hi Thomas,

A106 is indeed a single guide, unidirectional tube. Pin 5 is the guide 
electrode (usually called the transfer electrode on single guide tubes). 
Like the OG8, but a selector rather than counter format.

Jon.

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Re: [neonixie-l] 8971/7971 tube, strange failure mode

[Thomas Kummer]

Does it do it when a particular cathode, or number is attempted to be lit? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 14:48, Kevin A.  wrote:
> 
> Yup, the same tube does the same thing when in a different position. 
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 2:34 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:
>> If you move the tube to a different position does it do the same thing?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 24, 2019, at 10:44, Kevin A.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here is a picture of the tube when it experiences failure. 
>>> 
 On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:43 PM Kevin A.  
 wrote:
 Hi guys,
 
 I've got a friend who has an 8971 clock. When the clock is first powered 
 on, the tubes work fine. 10 seconds into running, the last tube (in 
 position 6) starts fizzling out. However, when you turn the clock off and 
 on again, the one tube repeats the same failure mode after 10 seconds 
 again. It doesn't appear to be out gassed, but maybe there is a strange 
 short in it somewhere?
 
 Any suggestions would be appreciated. 
 
 Thanks,
 Kevin 
 
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Re: [neonixie-l] 8971/7971 tube, strange failure mode

[Kevin A.]

Yup, the same tube does the same thing when in a different position.

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 2:34 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:

> If you move the tube to a different position does it do the same thing?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 24, 2019, at 10:44, Kevin A.  wrote:
>
> Here is a picture of the tube when it experiences failure.
>
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:43 PM Kevin A. 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I've got a friend who has an 8971 clock. When the clock is first powered
>> on, the tubes work fine. 10 seconds into running, the last tube (in
>> position 6) starts fizzling out. However, when you turn the clock off and
>> on again, the one tube repeats the same failure mode after 10 seconds
>> again. It doesn't appear to be out gassed, but maybe there is a strange
>> short in it somewhere?
>>
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin
>>
>> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] 8971/7971 tube, strange failure mode

[Nicholas Stock]

If you move the tube to a different position does it do the same thing?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 10:44, Kevin A.  wrote:
> 
> Here is a picture of the tube when it experiences failure. 
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:43 PM Kevin A.  wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> 
>> I've got a friend who has an 8971 clock. When the clock is first powered on, 
>> the tubes work fine. 10 seconds into running, the last tube (in position 6) 
>> starts fizzling out. However, when you turn the clock off and on again, the 
>> one tube repeats the same failure mode after 10 seconds again. It doesn't 
>> appear to be out gassed, but maybe there is a strange short in it somewhere?
>> 
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated. 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin 
>> 
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

[David Forbes]

I'm surprised that you can't just use the Schottky diode bridge, a rather
large filter capacitor and an LDO regulator chip. What components are you
using, and what's the lowest voltage you see at the input to the regulator?


On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 10:27 AM Dekatron42  wrote:

> In the circuit with the FDMQ8205 that you refer to they are connected in a
> POE circuit (Power Over Ethernet) where they make use of DC-voltages for
> the power and AC-voltages via the transformers for the data-transmissions -
> so the FDMQ8205 actually only work as polarity protection in that circuit
> and not as full-wave rectifiers.
>
> There is an old Elektor circuit here:
> http://projectcircuit4u.blogspot.com/2010/04/power-mosfet-active-bridge-rectifier.html
> that you might be able to use in some combination with the FDMQ8205.
>
> /Martin
>
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[neonixie-l] 8971/7971 tube, strange failure mode

[Kevin A.]

Hi guys,

I've got a friend who has an 8971 clock. When the clock is first powered on, 
the tubes work fine. 10 seconds into running, the last tube (in position 6) 
starts fizzling out. However, when you turn the clock off and on again, the one 
tube repeats the same failure mode after 10 seconds again. It doesn't appear to 
be out gassed, but maybe there is a strange short in it somewhere?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

Thanks,
Kevin 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

[Dekatron42]

In the circuit with the FDMQ8205 that you refer to they are connected in a 
POE circuit (Power Over Ethernet) where they make use of DC-voltages for 
the power and AC-voltages via the transformers for the data-transmissions - 
so the FDMQ8205 actually only work as polarity protection in that circuit 
and not as full-wave rectifiers.

There is an old Elektor circuit here: 
http://projectcircuit4u.blogspot.com/2010/04/power-mosfet-active-bridge-rectifier.html
 
that you might be able to use in some combination with the FDMQ8205.

/Martin

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Re: [neonixie-l] Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

[chuckrr]

A typical 7805 regulator drops out at around 7.5 volts at the input.
 You'll need a little more overhead than 6.3 volts.
 That, in my humble observation, is trying to cut it too close.

 -Original Message-
 From: "Paul Andrews" 
 Sent 3/24/2019 7:46:22 AM
 To: "neonixie-l" 
 Subject: [neonixie-l] Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

I want to create a 5V/1A regulated power supply from a 6.3V RMS input. I can 
get a regular diode bridge in a 4 pin DIP package, but it is marginal and my 
simulations and actual tests show that the forward voltage drop is too much 
under even a light load. My simulations show that a Schottky diode bridge works 
OK, and I can get an SMD 4 pin package with a total forward voltage drop of 
around 0.8V. However, I have seen designs for active MOSFET full-wave 
rectifiers, so I figured I might as well try to go that route. 

I came across two potential ICs to help. One is the LT4320 and the other is the 
FDMQ8205. The LT4320 uses external FETs, but the killer seems to be that the 
minimum output voltage is 9V. The FDMQ8205 has internal FETs, but I can't 
figure out how I would use it in a regular full-wave bridge rectifier. It has 
AC inputs and gate drive inputs and I'm not sure what the gate drive inputs 
should be. In note 4 in the datasheet they show a wiring diagram that connects 
the AC input to the gate inputs, but I can't tell if that is a topology that 
would provide full wave rectification, or if it is just something used for 
testing. 

Does anyone have any experience with active bridges at these voltages, or with 
these ICs? Is there an alternative I should be looking at? Should I just stick 
with the Schottky diode version?  

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Re: [neonixie-l] Looking for symbol tubes

[martin martin]

yes
that's the same ones I have a box of
How many do you want?  Free. just cover shipping.

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:43 AM Kevin A. 
wrote:

> Here are some odd Burroughs symbol tubes I found on ebay;
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F252453265409
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 6:50 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Mar 23, 2019, at 6:17 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. <
>> jfrech...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > My site is based on a database, i can run a query about symbol tubes
>> and send you a excel file if that would help
>> >
>> > let me know
>>
>> Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I've seen your site and it's
>> excellent. I greatly appreciate all the hard work you put into it.
>>
>> The only downside: I'll be spending more money on tubes.  8D
>>
>>
>> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
>> "The Mac Doctor"
>>
>> "For 30 years I have been trying to set the story straight about the name
>> HAL coming from IBM with one letter added to each. That was pure
>> coincidence. HAL stands for Heuristic Algorithmic computer."—Arthur C.
>> Clarke, 2001
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Looking for symbol tubes

[Kevin A.]

Here are some odd Burroughs symbol tubes I found on ebay;
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F252453265409

On Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 6:50 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:

>
> > On Mar 23, 2019, at 6:17 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. <
> jfrech...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My site is based on a database, i can run a query about symbol tubes and
> send you a excel file if that would help
> >
> > let me know
>
> Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I've seen your site and it's
> excellent. I greatly appreciate all the hard work you put into it.
>
> The only downside: I'll be spending more money on tubes.  8D
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> "For 30 years I have been trying to set the story straight about the name
> HAL coming from IBM with one letter added to each. That was pure
> coincidence. HAL stands for Heuristic Algorithmic computer."—Arthur C.
> Clarke, 2001
>
>
>
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Looking for symbol tubes

[martin martin]

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 7:07 AM martin martin  wrote:

> Hello from California
> I have a box of about 190 Burroughs symbol tubes.
> You are welcome to as many as you need.
>
> I’ll send the part no when I am back in the workshop
>
> Martin
>
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[neonixie-l] Re: Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

['jf...@my-deja.com' via neonixie-l]

If I had to use the 6V transformer, I would make a voltage doubler.  

Then I would use the switching mode regulator in a USB car charger adapter 
to produce the regulated 5V.   My Dollar Tree carries them.  Sometimes, 
Fry's has these for under US$1.  Or you can probably find one at your 
favorite truck stop for US$9.95.  I would physically hack iawy the case to 
get at the electronic innards. 

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[neonixie-l] Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

[Paul Andrews]

I want to create a 5V/1A regulated power supply from a 6.3V RMS input. I 
can get a regular diode bridge in a 4 pin DIP package, but it is marginal 
and my simulations and actual tests show that the forward voltage drop is 
too much under even a light load. My simulations show that a Schottky diode 
bridge works OK, and I can get an SMD 4 pin package with a total forward 
voltage drop of around 0.8V. However, I have seen designs for active MOSFET 
full-wave rectifiers, so I figured I might as well try to go that route.

I came across two potential ICs to help. One is the LT4320 and the other is 
the FDMQ8205. The LT4320 uses external FETs, but the killer seems to be 
that the minimum output voltage is 9V. The FDMQ8205 has internal FETs, but 
I can't figure out how I would use it in a regular full-wave bridge 
rectifier. It has AC inputs and gate drive inputs and I'm not sure what the 
gate drive inputs should be. In note 4 in the datasheet 
they show a wiring 
diagram that connects the AC input to the gate inputs, but I can't tell if 
that is a topology that would provide full wave rectification, or if it is 
just something used for testing.

Does anyone have any experience with active bridges at these voltages, or 
with these ICs? Is there an alternative I should be looking at? Should I 
just stick with the Schottky diode version?

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[neonixie-l] Looking for symbol tubes

[martin martin]

Hello from California 
I have a box of about 190 Burroughs symbol tubes. 
You are welcome to as many as you need.  

I’ll send the part no when I am back in the workshop 

Martin 

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