RE: [neonixie-l] Q: Gold colored coating on surface mount contacts

2019-08-20 Thread johnk
When "we" were manufacturing in the '90s the safe storage time for SMD was 
around 3 to 6 mths. Surfaces weren't 'fresh' after that. Some was wave soldered 
some reflow.
If that is a slow moving component then maybe they coated it with a solder-thru 
protective layer? Doesn't seem like they used a low activity flux coating from 
that description.
 We had reasonable success with the solder-through enamelled copper wire 
coatings, but generally still had someone on the production line dip the ends 
of the coil/transformer leads in a solder pot. One of the main reasons iirc was 
that we had difficulty transitioning the inspectors from through-hole soldering 
to SMT. Historical note: I believe that NASA demonstrated that certain 
bad-looking joints were actually equal/superior to the ones that inspectors 
were trained for. It was TOO hard to characterise the iffy looking joints so 
that they could be reliably distinguished from bad joints. When SMT came along 
various inspectors nearly had breakdowns  :-) 

[I have no idea of current practices; and gee, THAT was 25 years ago! Feels 
like yesterday.]
Hope you find out about that coating as I am rather interested too.

John K

-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2019 13:24
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Q: Gold colored coating on surface mount contacts

No. Still don’t know what it is.

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:01 PM, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
> 
> Did you figure it out Paul?  Now you have me wondering too...
> 
> Bill
> 
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RE: [neonixie-l] So do you guys think I'll be getting this watch I just bought off ebay???

2019-08-18 Thread johnk
Crikey !!

 

[I am flabbergasted]

 

John K

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Terry S
Sent: Sunday, 18 August 2019 10:43
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] So do you guys think I'll be getting this watch I 
just bought off ebay???

 

It was $1 Buy-it_Now.

 

 


On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 3:38:01 AM UTC-5, johnk wrote:

What did he think would happen if he didn’t use a high starting price?

Can’t have his cake and eat it too!

I guess he doesn’t know what an auction is either  L(

 

John K.

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com   
[mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com  ] On Behalf Of Bill Notfaded
Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2019 06:43
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] So do you guys think I'll be getting this watch I 
just bought off ebay???

 

Luckily he refunded my money... I really should give him bad feedback but he 
sounds like a noob.

 

Bill

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RE: [neonixie-l] So do you guys think I'll be getting this watch I just bought off ebay???

2019-08-17 Thread johnk
What did he think would happen if he didn’t use a high starting price?

Can’t have his cake and eat it too!

I guess he doesn’t know what an auction is either  L(

 

John K.

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill Notfaded
Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2019 06:43
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] So do you guys think I'll be getting this watch I 
just bought off ebay???

 

Luckily he refunded my money... I really should give him bad feedback but he 
sounds like a noob.

 

Bill

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RE: [neonixie-l] So do you guys think I'll be getting this watch I just bought off ebay???

2019-08-16 Thread johnk
It means that he wanted to list "quite a few" items and had to use low starting 
prices. I guess the one in question didn't get bidded-up. The aggregate list 
value meant that he chose to risk not starting high. 

Or am I missing a point here?

John k

-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill Notfaded
Sent: Friday, 16 August 2019 15:38
To: neonixie-l
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] So do you guys think I'll be getting this watch I 
just bought off ebay???

Got this from the guy:

New message from: zhch-12 (7)
hi,so sorry ,one thing to note is that because of ebay's restrictions on new 
sellers, the maximum price of the articles published can only be $200, This 
month's quota is running out.and the real price is $399.

What the heck does that mean?  Well this guy started out on the wrong foot for 
sure.  I almost feel sorry for him.

Bill

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RE: [neonixie-l] power supplies and radio interference

2019-08-16 Thread johnk
Sigh, Tempest. "We" used to service some Tempest spec sites. 
Btw, you need a security clearance to be able to access/read the spec too  :-))
And, some of our guys just would not keep the spares cabinet locked.

I agree that shielding/filtering the supply is not impossible, but is so much 
harder than having to do nothing when it comes to the linear regulator 
supplies. Apparently the users aren't bothered by the level of noise from diode 
steps [eg zeners].

John K

-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill Notfaded
Sent: Friday, 16 August 2019 15:43
To: neonixie-l
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] power supplies and radio interference

You can always build a little tempest facility around it.  Like a small Faraday 
cage.

Bill

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RE: [neonixie-l] power supplies and radio interference

2019-08-15 Thread johnk
Thanks for the reply David – I thought of you when I posted. 

I am keen to get some replies from HF listeners where particular 
“brand”/circuit supplies get commented on.

Any idea how your watch [supply] performs [when displaying] around HF comms?

 

John K

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of David Forbes
Sent: Friday, 16 August 2019 14:11
To: NeoNixie
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] power supplies and radio interference

 

I work in radio astronomy, and I wear a Nixie watch. No problem. 

 

But seriously, it is possible to build a low-emission switching supply. It 
takes time and care and shielding. High voltage is more of a challenge. 

 

 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 12:27 AM johnk  wrote:

>From time to time I come across discussions where radio restorers [domestic 
>and mil] want a low current valve-voltage (tube-voltage) power supply.

I often suggest that they look at the various Nixie supplies discussed here.

 

The usual response is along the lines that ANY “switching” or 
not-linear-regulator supply will cause too much “noise” on the radio bands 
involved.

 

Are there any active ticketed amateur radio guys here who have had first-hand 
experience of this topic and are willing to share their wisdom?

 

John K

Australia.

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[neonixie-l] power supplies and radio interference

2019-08-15 Thread johnk
>From time to time I come across discussions where radio restorers [domestic
and mil] want a low current valve-voltage (tube-voltage) power supply.

I often suggest that they look at the various Nixie supplies discussed here.

 

The usual response is along the lines that ANY "switching" or
not-linear-regulator supply will cause too much "noise" on the radio bands
involved.

 

Are there any active ticketed amateur radio guys here who have had
first-hand experience of this topic and are willing to share their wisdom?

 

John K

Australia.

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RE: [neonixie-l] audiophiles are crazy...

2019-05-29 Thread johnk
I think that you will find they truly believe in the Western Electric reels of 
vintage solder that pop up from time to time.

John K

-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of lokna...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 29 May 2019 23:52
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] audiophiles are crazy...

For the best sound it can not be just any solderit must be a 100% special 
silver alloy. 藍

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2019, at 08:14, Bill van Dijk  wrote:
> 
> But he is offering FREE shipping...!
> 
> It is a special bunch. I just read a post from one bloke who swears he 
> has found the best sounding are you ready for it?. 
> Solder. He was looking for advice how to remove all the bad solder 
> from his amp so he could install his new solder. Good grief
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] 
> On Behalf Of Dan Hollis
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 1:56 PM
> To: neonixie-l 
> Subject: [neonixie-l] audiophiles are crazy...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-tube-VT-62-8019-4304-HIGH-QUALITY-AUDIO
> PHILE-
> POWER-TUBE-2-pcs/293018722398
> 
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RE: [neonixie-l] "TEL" dekatron

2019-05-03 Thread johnk
Haven’t seen one.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it is a stores item procured well after the hey-day 
of tubes. There are many examples of tubes/valves with CV numbers amateurishly 
stamped on them. The stamping rarely meets the requirements of K1001 standard. 
Maybe someone used his kid’s rubber printing set to get the parts through 
inwards goods? [And I have seen some tricks pulled there – not only in the 
government. Saw a not-so-smart storeman accept goods after he stood there and 
watched the sales agent alter the box labels with a marker pen.]

 

John K

Australia.

[ps  Jon, drop me a pm please – might have a tip for you.]

 

From: 'Grahame' via neonixie-l [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 3 May 2019 18:47
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] "TEL" dekatron

 




Here's an odd tube. As many of you know a dekatron manufacturer was ETL 
(Ericsson Telephones Ltd) and this look like someone has labelled a tube TEL in 
error or perhaps on purpose. The tube also has no two letter date code. Round 
the back is the CV2271 designation, so another anomaly spotted by Jon Ellis is 
that this specification is for the GC10B/S tube.

Jon and I would be interested if anyone else has seen a "TEL" dekatron or has 
an explanation for the printing?

Grahame

…clip….

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: First nixie clock: do I need to switch anode?

2019-05-03 Thread johnk
Well, what can we say?

I suspect that he knows Spinal Tap and maybe HE was the interviewer  J

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

 

BTW, Justin, I hope you caught my recent diatribe on Watts and Watts RMS.

 

John Kaesehagen

Australia

 

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Jonathan Peakall
Sent: Friday, 3 May 2019 23:11
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: First nixie clock: do I need to switch anode?

 

Because 11 is louder. It is one more than 10! Duh!

On 5/3/2019 6:22 AM, Justin Scott wrote:

Why don’t I just make 10 a little louder and then make 10 the top number and 
make that a little louder?

 

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Paul Andrews  wrote:

I’m going to say the obvious thing here: Surely it should show the volume as 
0-11?


On May 3, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Justin Scott  wrote:

Thanks; good advice. I am an EE with 12 years of experience and have worked 
with HV before. Built my own tube amp with 420 VDC inside. Would love to hear 
your tips. 

 

What I'm actually building is a volume display for a tube amp. When you turn 
the volume pot, a couple of nixies will display 0-99. The amp in question 
already has a transformer that delivers 220VAC, so I will be dropping and 
rectifying that to get my 180V for the nixie anodes.

 

On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 5:01:27 PM UTC-4, gregebert wrote:

I dont recommend line-operated designs unless you've done some previous design 
work at  high-ish voltages. There are a lot of not-obvious things that go wrong 
(line noise, transients, component failure, inadequate isolation) with very bad 
consequences. 

 

If you have done a lot of past designs, I can share some tips on how to make a 
line-operated design safer and more reliable. The last thing we want is for 
someone's nixie clock to cause a fire, or worse.

 

I've had a few "learning experiences" with line-operated circuits that ended-up 
with sparks, smoke, and/or small explosions despite careful forethought. 
There's always something you overlook, and sooner or later it will get you.

….clip..

 

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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: LED light bulb teardown

2019-05-03 Thread johnk
They interest me too. I do troubleshooting for a mate who imports LED lights. 

When you pull apart OR store the LEDs make sure that you do not put any real 
pressure on the soft rubbery potting/encapsulation of the LEDs.

COB LEDs are easily damaged – the bonding wires are delicate.

 

Some suppliers here are still claiming 20,000 – 50,000 hours lifetime time for 
the whole lamp. Sometimes even when the driver is separate, they include the 
driver still.

They are/will get their fingers burnt. Australian consumer laws are very good 
for the consumer. In general terms we get a lifetime warranty regardless of 
what the seller says, because things have to be fit for purpose. [It could be 
argued that some of those tiny low temp electrolytics are not.]

The difficulties arise with consumer goods like a TV. Even though the 
electronics should be expected to last for many many years, the “trade” has 
gradually influenced the government to believe that a TV has an accepted 
limited life [short] because so many new models keep coming out. The assumption 
is that a new model has some new benefit wished-for by the public [not so, of 
course.]

 

Even some large retailers don’t understand. This was underlined when a program 
called “Checkout” iirc ran on a government sponsored TV network here. Years ago 
I had an issue with a product and a BIG retailer – it was short-circuited by 
the fact that HP actually used the wording from our government consumer affairs 
law in their warranty information. 

We can claim reasonable costs in returning/collecting replacements etc too.

[And Australia was in main responsible for forcing Steam to accept returns on 
software. I forget how many million they were fined.]

 

Any other countries with good protections?

 

[oops, sorry for the hijack of topic :-0   ]

 

John Kaesehagen

Australia

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of gregebert
Sent: Friday, 3 May 2019 14:32
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] OT: LED light bulb teardown

 

Since we all love to tinker with electronic items, I thought I should share 
this. Whenever an LED bulb fails, I take it apart for the LED assembly. 
Usually, it's the driver electronics that fails, leaving the LEDs intact. But 
on rare occasions an LED chip actually fails open and in 1 case I simply 
jumpered it across. As you can see, none of these are identical which shows 
there is constant redesign going on. Guess which of these was a floodlight ???

 

 

IMG_0212.JPG

 

 

So, how efficient are these things ? Well, it takes about 50 volts to get most 
of these glowing. Even at 400uA (20mW) there's a decent amount of light coming 
out.

 

IMG_0213.JPG

 

At about 10mA, it's so bright the photo washes-out and it's very annoying to 
look directly at it. Just 1/2 watt, or about the power of a larger nixie tube. 
Beyond that, they get so bright that you risk eye damage. One quick glance at 
40mA gave me blind-spots for several minutes. Even at 40mA (2+ watts), there's 
not too much heat generated and it measured about 60 C .

 

IMG_0214.JPG

 

As for reliability, this is about all that has failed over the past few years 
within our community, as I maintain about 200 lightbulbs in the alleyways.

I'm glad no glass is used; the easiest way to tear them down is by squashing in 
a bench vise, then picking out what you want with some pliers.

And no, I have absolutely no idea what I will use these for; right now they 
just collect in a jar.

 

They're just too interesting to throw out.just like the neon bulbs and 
nixie tubes I started salvaging years ago.

 

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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

2019-04-17 Thread johnk
Thank you so much for playing the game Tomasz, and bothering to check the 
calculations.

It can also be done with DC a meter or scope that shows True RMS when DC is 
present. [Check by reading a battery on the AC range.]

You can set up a sine wave that is offset by a DC value. You make a voltage 
waveform that is the same shape as the power waveform that we are talking 
about. Then you measure it.

 

There is a useful electronics website.

https://masteringelectronicsdesign.com/how-to-derive-the-rms-value-of-a-sine-wave-with-a-dc-offset/

On that page he shows the mathematics involved. Notice that a very simple 
formula right at the end/bottom covers what we are doing.

It gives an answer very close to yours too.

 

Regarding audio and perceived loudness: if you ever want to increase that 
impact of the sound without “cheating” by using a compressor, then just record 
to magnetic tape. You could even use a deck that has replay monitor heads 
immediately after the record heads so that it is close to real time.

To get up out of the noise they had to set up magnetic to work in a rather 
non-linear region. It automatically compressed. This was one of the things that 
made full digital audio sound different. They didn’t set out to compress “old” 
audio but it happened anyway.

 

That consistent loudness thing really annoys me too. Unfortunately some of the 
normalising programs cause other problems. Some of the problem is caused by 
people using the scope view in their digital software. When you have 20dB 
headroom it looks like you are working so far down that you must be in the 
noise. They also think that you are wasting that space. This is where metering 
methods become so important too. And some training/awareness.

 

Thanks to all the Nixie guys for tolerating this OT discussion too.

Regards,

John K

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Tomasz Kowalczyk
Sent: Thursday, 18 April 2019 04:04
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

 



W dniu wtorek, 16 kwietnia 2019 15:57:35 UTC+2 użytkownik johnk napisał:

Well, how do I say this Thomas?

It is NOT to be called Watts RMS !

They left the vital word out – it is Watts [RMS derived]. They left out 
“derived”.

 

The RMS volts and RMS amps that you mention when multiplied together produce 
Watts. Just plain Watts.

These Watts are actually the average power of the power waveform that resulted 
from your two sinewaves.

Remember too, that the RMS value of the voltage waveform gives the DC voltage 
that provides the same heating effect. And that is average power.

Gee, I didn’t say that well. I have just spent a while fighting with Win 10 and 
drivers for CH340 on Arduino clone boards – I haven’t recovered !

 

You might think that I am nit picking. However you did say this, “RMS power of 
a sine wave is 0,5 times peak power.”

And the power waveform isn’t really a sinewave in the way we mean it. The 
values of interest here lie in the area under the curve (notice it is twice the 
frequency too?]. In a sine wave [like the Voltage one]  the areas of interest 
are the equal sized ‘lobes’ above and below the zero line. 

I invite you to draw out the two sinewaves [Volts and Current] and the 
resulting power waveform and perform an actual root-mean-square calculation on 
it to prove your statement.  [Graphically is more reliable because it shows the 
workings J  ]

Spoiler: you will NOT get 0.5 x pk as the answer.

 

The VERY rough sketch that I sent Charles shows what I mean about the average 
value [the green bit tipped over into the trough].

(Rough because I was on a new touch screen laptop and NOT in tablet mode. I was 
experimenting; made it tricky to draw with the pen. )

 

I know that you know what you mean when you refer to amplifiers this way, but 
you could add the extra word and be ‘more right’  J

Thanks for nibbling on the hook. But, I really do wish that someone had been 
willing to do the graphical maths thing. Someone must want to prove me wrong, 
surely.

 

John Kaesehagen

Australia

 

 

OK, I see your point. The right way to spell power is just watts (V RMS * I RMS 
= W)
I've ran a little excel excercise - I calculated voltage and current with peak 
value equal to sqrt(2) for 360 points of a sine wave. If I run RMS calculation 
(from definition) on voltage or current, it is equal to 1 (so one times the 
other is 1W), but running it on voltage*current gives a value of about 1,22W 
RMS. 
I admit this is a mistake to use W RMS.

 

When it comes to Loudness War - I am also for dynamic range, but mostly, I am 
for consistent loudness between digital files, so I don't have to change volume 
for each track. Fortunately, loudness war is being actively fought against - as 
far as I know, Spotify attenuates a track if it is too loud, which eliminates 
the whole reason songs were overcompressed. So now those tracks are left with 
their poor dynamic range, but being

RE: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

2019-04-16 Thread johnk
Gee Whizz. Sorry for not spelling your name correctly in the two posts Tomasz. 

That was very careless and rude of me – please accept my apologies. 

 

John K

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Tomasz Kowalczyk
Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2019 20:30
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

 



W dniu piątek, 29 marca 2019 08:46:37 UTC+1 użytkownik charles napisał:

On 2019-03-28 10:09 p.m., johnk wrote: 

the FTC in the States started cracking down and said that any power 
claims had to be based on teh RMS output (.707 of the peak) using a sine 
wave with Specified distortion. AND that the unit had to be conditioned 
at almost maximum power (75% if I recall, or Perhaps 90%)for several 
minutes before taking the measurement.  SOME units sudenly could not 
show ANY power as the pre-conditioning was enough to cause them to shut 
down or Melt down. 

 

That would be 0,707 (1/sqrt(2)) voltage output on a resistive load. RMS power 
of a sine wave is 0,5 times peak power.
I like to know maximum constant RMS output, because it tells me a lot about the 
amplifier and its capability. The peak power or "music power usually" lacks a 
definition (I can easily imagine a design that would allow for short pulse of 
higher power, but power supply/amplifier would fry up if it was to deliver this 
peak power for longer time).

I like that FTC definition requiring amplifier to work with high output power 
before taking a measurement, which is watts RMS. 

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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

2019-04-16 Thread johnk
Thomas, the audio levels standards do exist. But I agree with you that there 
isn’t just one.

Each of the areas has its own standard. So, you do have a known standard for 
consumer electronics. You do have  known standards for radio/entertainment, 
studio and professional work [pre DAWs]. And you do have a ‘new’ standard for 
recent era digital equipments. That is why I mentioned Bob Katz’ book when Jens 
asked his question. I had to work with a Dutch mixing desk that attempted to be 
able to be employed in ‘both’ eras radio and recording studio environments. 
They didn’t manage it – they threw away a lot of head room. [Scorpius] The 
metering issues created extra problems because ideally you want the standards 
there to match the sensitivities too – but there is conflict. And it all 
depends whether you back the Loudness Wars. Remember too, generally you aren’t 
trying to make an equipment that is to serve in  more than one of the 
environments.

I say – Long Live Dynamic Range !

John Kaesehagen

Australia

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Tomasz Kowalczyk
Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2019 19:54
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

 



W dniu piątek, 29 marca 2019 08:46:37 UTC+1 użytkownik charles napisał:

On 2019-03-28 10:09 p.m., johnk wrote: 
 based on teh RMS output (.707 of the peak)

 

That would be 0,707 (1/sqrt(2)) voltage output on a resistive load. RMS power 
of a sine wave is 0,5 times peak power.
I like to know maximum constant RMS output, because it tells me a lot about the 
amplifier and its capability. The peak power or music power usually lacks a 
definition (I can easily imagine a design that would allow for short pulse of 
higher power, but power supply/amplifier would fry up if it was to deliver this 
peak power for longer time).
It is well known that for most time amplifier delivers a little percentage of 
its maximum power, but having continous Watts RMS into specified load rating is 
a very solid rating with solid definition.

On the topic: it really bothers me that there is no definition of one voltage 
standard. It would make perfect sense to create a standard of a CD output, for 
example - a 2Vpp signal, in which +1V would correspond to maximum digital value 
DAC can give (65535 for standard 16-bit) and -1V would correspond to a value of 
0. It would make designing amplifiers much easier - the sensivity would be 
always same. 
Currently I'm building a vacuum tube amplifier and I'm mad at the fact that I 
need to make the sensivity on 200mVpp level (my phone output), but most of 
other sources will have much higher signal. I think I'll need to go with a 
noisy method of applying extra resistor in series with volume potentiometer for 
the higher inputs... or apply the resistor and a "+20dB" switch that will short 
it. 
At least it is a vacuum tube amplifier, so noise will be an issue anyway.

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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: Help buying banana sockets manufactured by Abbattron / HH Smith, anyone?

2019-04-14 Thread johnk
Martin, let’s see what offers you get first.

I inherited many cubic metres of parts and semi-dismantled equipment about six 
years ago. [You “knew” the guy slightly from AVO discussions iirc – from 
Adelaide.]

I sorted a lot of it while the experience was a bit novel. I didn’t get back to 
it after a couple of events interrupted.

I have two ten litre plastic boxes relatively easy to access of various banana 
sockets taken from test equipment.

NOTE:  most of these are the binding post variety though. I get the impression 
the ones you want are just a panel socket?

I am assuming 4mm too. 

Might be able to help if you can supply photo.   Oh, I could go look at the 
part numbers you mentioned [it is 0409, so I have an excuse for skipping over 
it J].

 

OK, so I looked on the web. Now I’ll ponder the location of my boxes.

 

I am located in Australia.

John K

 

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Dekatron42
Sent: Monday, 15 April 2019 01:58
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] OT: Help buying banana sockets manufactured by Abbattron 
/ HH Smith, anyone?

 

Hi,

 

I am looking for three (3) each of black and red banana sockets manufactured by 
Abbatron / HH Smith numbered 1509-102 (red) and 1509-103 (black).

 

For some reason all of the companies carrying these that ship to Sweden have 
decided to demand that you have a company, that you buy at least 100 pieces and 
that you pay a hefty extra cost for buying them, above an extra shipping cost 
which is normally free - now, I don't have a company so I trip there already. I 
can't find them on eBay or any other surplus sites either (there are a few 100 
and 50 packages sold on eBay only white and black but no red that I can see).

 

These banana sockets aren't really expensive or anything, it is just that they 
have two flat sides and I need them to repair an old oscilloscope, a Conar 255 
Solid State Oscilloscope, and they are identical to the original ones and fit 
in the panel holes.

 

Can anyone here help me to buy them and ship them to me? I'll pay for them and 
the shipping of course!

 

/Martin

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: ZM1050 / Z550M

2019-04-14 Thread johnk
A scope gives a better picture of what is happening.

Before you go to a constant high voltage supply you should check the display 
specs.

And, a constant voltage will cause more power dissipation in any series 
resistor. Better check the rating.

 

This is where  others here are of more use to you – I just wanted to be sure 
that you had spotted the pulsed aspect of the DC in that circuit, I haven’t 
played with this device. 

If you were going to sub another supply and just went by meter readings you 
might have been led astray.

 

John k

[This is so like that Watts RMS thing  I tried to get nibbles on. Btw, I did 
send you something the next day Charles.]

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Richard Scales
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2019 16:04
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: ZM1050 / Z550M

 

Thank you for that, I think I'm getting there, I can see that the peak volts 
will be higher, 1.414 x 110 v. On that basis should I be OK using a DC supply 
of equivalent voltage or perhaps even higher by changing the series resistor 
value (I have several 170V supplies) then switching S0 to S9 via 5v TTL?

Richard

 

 

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 06:22 johnk,  wrote:

A bunch of my email delivery posts are out of order and missing some [for lots 
of groups].

I’ll comment anyway.

Notice that there is no smoothing capacitor in that diagram [if we are looking 
at the same one].

This means that  with the halfwave rectifier you are going to get pulsed DC 
rising to the peak of the sinewave 110V. That peak is 1.414 x RMS.

So, with luck you get 155V that is rising and falling and then a gap and then 
repeat. Assuming the 110 actually IS 110.

 

Different meters will give different answers because of the pulsing aspect of 
the DC. Moving coil meter will show average [0.318 x pk for this example]. DMMs 
depend – look at the manufacturer specs.

 

Hope I am not repeating other posts,

John K

 

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Richard Scales
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2019 14:40
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: ZM1050 / Z550M

 

The main reason for not using that circuit is that I don't have that 
transformer to hand though I do have  many DC power supplies available and I 
just wanted to get the voltage right.

 

Having looked in to it in more detail is seems that it's just a half wave 
rectifier which should yield 0.45 x 110 V = 49.5V - so could I just use a 50V 
dc supply instead?

 

I would use a micro to generate the control signals - perhaps with a 74595 
shift register to reduce the pin count - does that all sound like a plan?

 

Richard

 



On Saturday, 13 April 2019 05:15:42 UTC+1, Richard Scales wrote:

I just discovered one of these tubes (labelled as a Dario ZM1050 / Z550M) in 
what looks like NOS condition.

I heave read a lot about from from various sources such as: 
https://www.dos4ever.com/Z550M/Z550M.html and here 
http://www.tubebbs.com/tubedata/sheets/013/z/ZM1050.pdf and I note that several 
articles refer to driving them in normal 'Nixie' mode rather than using the 5V 
switching that they were designed to support.

 

Before I hook this up to the grid I wonder if anyone here can confirm voltages 
and anode resistor values that might stop me from frying the thing as I also 
read that they might be few and far between.

 

>From various specs I have found they seem to suggest a supply voltage of 90V 
>ac and a cathode current of around 3mA. I am insufficiently qualified to 
>translate that to the 170v DC supply, strike and maintaining voltages (and 
>hence series resistor values) that I am more comfortable with.

 

The pinout shows a cathode, an anode and st0 - st9 and from what I can 
understand from the notes is seems that the original design concept was to 
drive st0 - st9 with 5V levels as high voltage transistors were not readily 
available at the time.

 

Has anyone driven these in any way and if so, would they be able to provide 
some further insight?

 

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: ZM1050 / Z550M

2019-04-13 Thread johnk
A bunch of my email delivery posts are out of order and missing some [for lots 
of groups].

I’ll comment anyway.

Notice that there is no smoothing capacitor in that diagram [if we are looking 
at the same one].

This means that  with the halfwave rectifier you are going to get pulsed DC 
rising to the peak of the sinewave 110V. That peak is 1.414 x RMS.

So, with luck you get 155V that is rising and falling and then a gap and then 
repeat. Assuming the 110 actually IS 110.

 

Different meters will give different answers because of the pulsing aspect of 
the DC. Moving coil meter will show average [0.318 x pk for this example]. DMMs 
depend – look at the manufacturer specs.

 

Hope I am not repeating other posts,

John K

 

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Richard Scales
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2019 14:40
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: ZM1050 / Z550M

 

The main reason for not using that circuit is that I don't have that 
transformer to hand though I do have  many DC power supplies available and I 
just wanted to get the voltage right.

 

Having looked in to it in more detail is seems that it's just a half wave 
rectifier which should yield 0.45 x 110 V = 49.5V - so could I just use a 50V 
dc supply instead?

 

I would use a micro to generate the control signals - perhaps with a 74595 
shift register to reduce the pin count - does that all sound like a plan?

 

Richard

 



On Saturday, 13 April 2019 05:15:42 UTC+1, Richard Scales wrote:

I just discovered one of these tubes (labelled as a Dario ZM1050 / Z550M) in 
what looks like NOS condition.

I heave read a lot about from from various sources such as: 
https://www.dos4ever.com/Z550M/Z550M.html and here 
http://www.tubebbs.com/tubedata/sheets/013/z/ZM1050.pdf and I note that several 
articles refer to driving them in normal 'Nixie' mode rather than using the 5V 
switching that they were designed to support.

 

Before I hook this up to the grid I wonder if anyone here can confirm voltages 
and anode resistor values that might stop me from frying the thing as I also 
read that they might be few and far between.

 

>From various specs I have found they seem to suggest a supply voltage of 90V 
>ac and a cathode current of around 3mA. I am insufficiently qualified to 
>translate that to the 170v DC supply, strike and maintaining voltages (and 
>hence series resistor values) that I am more comfortable with.

 

The pinout shows a cathode, an anode and st0 - st9 and from what I can 
understand from the notes is seems that the original design concept was to 
drive st0 - st9 with 5V levels as high voltage transistors were not readily 
available at the time.

 

Has anyone driven these in any way and if so, would they be able to provide 
some further insight?

 

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RE: [neonixie-l] Mystery tube

2019-04-10 Thread johnk
I have come in late on this. Martin will be right. It does look similar to the 
Hamamatsu thingo.

I was going to suggest it is a flash tube for the StroboTac or similar. [but 
that should glow I suppose].
I love doing "whatsits".

John K


-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Nicholas Stock
Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2019 12:56
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Mystery tube

Anyone have an idea what this is? 4 pins. Doesn’t glow next to a plasma globe 
and doesn’t have any distinguishing markings on the base except some hand 
written numbers.Appears to have two C shaped wires connected to each pair 
of pins with a small gap between the electrodes.

Nick

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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: Duracell power bank

2019-04-07 Thread johnk
Has anyone noticed the eBay offerings of HUGE mAH banks?  50,000, 100,000, 
33 etc !  One listing says the capacity is based on “theoretical maximum ” 
-  a new theory perhaps? 

They are the same size and weight as the smaller ones. There are teardowns on 
the web and youtube showing the markings on the batteries/cells. Yep, they are 
the normal small ones.

 

Watch out for the ratings for the output  too.  Not talking about conversion 
efficiency.

Some rate the output mAH as the battery mAH.  Do it in Watt Hours and you will 
see what I mean.  So, try this calc for yourself : 3.7V @ 10,000 mAH gives  
5.0V @ ? mAH.

 

Here in Australia I bought from Office Works [large chain store]. They were not 
much dearer than cheapies. The advantage is their returns policy.

They are exceedingly easy to deal with over tech problems and warranty issues. 
Well worth the extra price.

 

John K

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of alb.001 alb.001
Sent: Monday, 8 April 2019 09:26
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] OT: Duracell power bank

 

You don't need to go all the across the ocean. I bought a 10,000mAh power bank, 
USB rechargeable with battery status indicator for about $15 from a store in 
Toronto..  It was a promotional product for intuit QuickBooks.  No brand name 
on it but it has an item number 7121-18WH on the back.  made in China.   Look 
around, they are not rare.

Good luck Phil for Brampton ON.

-- Original Message --
From: jb-electronics 
Date: April 7, 2019 at 7:06 PM


Hello Nixie friends,

This is a bit of an off-topic thing, but I finally caved and realized 
that I need a USB power bank because my phone runs out of battery too 
quickly when I travel. I found this nice-looking power bank from 
Duracell here:

https://www.duracell.co.uk/product/powerbank-6700mah/

I am having a hard time finding it for sale outside of the UK, though, 
and they do not ship to Canada. If there is somebody in this group who 
is based in the UK and is willing to get it for me, I would be more than 
grateful. Please send me an email off-list. Many thanks!

Best wishes
Jens

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RE: [neonixie-l] Another Tube Hobby Failure

2019-04-06 Thread johnk
Michael, I have to comment on the logic here.

You say you have one that is quite OK and seem to use that fact to rule out the 
effects mentioned by Nick. Actually, I consider that the parasitic oscillations 
idea is reinforced by your fact, not denied by it.   When a circuit is on the 
verge of misbehaving there will be some that are OK and some that aren’t.

Obviously I can’t tell from here what the actual fault is.

 

Capacitors.  I am interested in the topic. Low ESR electrolytics are a curse. 
[Remember that fuss about the “stolen” formula not being complete and all the 
computer manufacturers being affected?] Some do seem to last better than 
expected. Some fail quickly. The LED lighting industry is possibly going to 
cause improvements. Those tiny electros that they hide in the base of the globe 
really are stressed. And some sellers still quote the expected LED life as that 
for the power supply too ! Oops.  [And Australian consumer law provides for 
lifetime warranty btw, regardless of what the manufacturer states. And we beat 
up Steam to the point that they allow returns!]

I am very interested in hearing about how well different brands and types of 
capacitor perform. Anyone tried non-electros? 

I have noticed that some switching supplies driving discharge tubes for TV and 
laptop backlighting [yeah, old ones, not LED ones] use monolithic solid caps. 
One I fixed had only 2uF though iirc.  A pity that opamp capacitor multipliers 
don’t store energy J .

 

John K

Australia 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of MichaelB
Sent: Sunday, 7 April 2019 11:06
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Another Tube Hobby Failure

 

HI Nick, 

 

I know you have mentioned that before, but I really don’t think anything else 
is wrong. As I said I have another one of these with 566M tubes and it has 
worked flawlessly for 8+ years. Those electronics are in a similar enclosure 
with less ventilation. And this is the second set of electronics i have tried 
in this enclosure thinking there might be something internally wrong with the 
PCB. (I had that problem with one of my Thomas clocks way back when) But, I 
believe others have had issues with these electronics. Another variable vs. 
your clocks might be that I have wired in a pair of NE-2 Colons in parallel vs. 
the stock config that uses just one per each side. I doubt that would be an 
issue, but it may account for a slightly greater current demand.  I don't think 
these clocks like anything, but an open air set up. Also, the close proximity 
of the 5V VREG and the IRF640 is somewhat suspect from a heat dissipation 
perspective. Anyway…I used a higher voltage capacity electrolytic this time, 
maybe I’ll this'll give me another year or so :-). and I will try your idea of 
adding a heat sink to the VREG, since heat seems to be the culprit here. Thx 
Nick

 

 

On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 6:06:36 PM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:

Something else is awry there Michael. I have a friend with a TubeHobby IN18 
that i built for him that’s been running for well over 6 years now with no 
issues. The only modification i ever made was putting an extra heatsink on the 
regulator as what was there (board plane) didn’t seem sufficient to me (just a 
hunch, I’m sure Jonas knew what he was doing..)

 

Hope you get it sorted!

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 6, 2019, at 17:15, MichaelB  > wrote:

This makes 4 times now this clock has failed over the past 10 years or so. This 
is a stock clock with IN-18's. I have another set of these electronics that has 
never failed, but then again, I had changed the tube board to accommodate the 
Z566M tube. Different current demands? It has worked like a charm for years 
now. The failure with the IN-8 clock this time was a leaky C6. In the past the 
inductor has failed, but usually its one of the electrolytics in the Pwr supply 
stage. It's become kind of a ritual where every 2-3 years I have to pull the 
clock apart and play detective and figure out what's wrong after its starts 
blowing fuses. Kind of fun now, actually! 

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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

2019-03-28 Thread johnk
Jens, I wasn't sure what you intended. Might have been Russian "thermometer" 
tubes as display even.
I wonder what the various guys who have mentioned making audio meters ended up 
doing?

Even though you want it for a headphone level indicator, it might get used by 
others for different purposes.
The problem with any averaging meter in today's audio environment is the fact 
that digital systems clip when overdriven. 
I mentioned tape recording [analogue] earlier. Tape has a natural compression 
effect [I said limiter last time]. It was the lack of realisation of this that 
caused so much of the argument when digital workstations and digital storage 
arrived. The tape recording produced more punch because they couldn't afford to 
operate down in the linear region. [Signal/noise].

A VU meter needs an audio system with 14 to 18dB headroom. Because the meter is 
slow it does not indicate peaks. Taking voice intelligibility into account 
[some clipping allowed], voice peaks are generally 4 to 14dB above what is 
indicated.
A PPM can be used simply - "don't go into the red". The zero [ie start of red 
section] indicates that clipping is occurring. As I mentioned before 0dBFS 
should be a little down from the red [big topic]. FS means Full scale in the 
digital arena - the biggest number that can be represented by your 16 or 24 
bits (or whatever).

For your headphone use you could make the red zone be the onset of distortion 
caused by the headphones overdriving OR it could represent the max safe 
listening level [assuming you don't have level limited phones already].

Sound card specs used to give good levels info. I just looked at my motherboard 
handbooks from the last 15 years and they have zilch.
I am mentioning all of this because if you go to the trouble of coding 
something then you have the opportunity to build in features.
Another reason for going a bit overboard is this: I believe that when shortcuts 
and liberties are taken with standards it should be with the knowledge of what 
has been done. It should be decision based - not a result of ignorance. 

I am a bit wary of pointing to a wiki article, but you have probably already 
been there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level



An aside: now that we are talking audio, I would love to get an argument going 
about Watts RMS !
I say this:  the watts specified for an amplifier output are intended to be 
average power and not rms power.
When Watts rms is stated it is NOT intended to be read as that. It is intended 
to mean "Watts [rms derived"]. There is a lot of difference.

Any takers?

I invite sceptics to do the math or draw a sinewave power waveform and inspect 
it carefully. Try 1V rms and 1A rms sine wave resistive.
Having looked at it and tipped the top half into the trough [proving what I 
proposed], go ahead and perform an rms calculation on that power waveform. You 
might be surprised.

If that didn't get your attention, look at it his way. Even the respected name 
companies use the W RMS term. So, how can I be right? 

John K
Australia

-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of jb-electronics
Sent: Friday, 29 March 2019 03:09
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

Hi David, hi John,

Thank you very much for your help! I am not trying to build a professional VU 
meter; rather, what I want is to create a microcontroller-based LM3916 
alternative. These are now obsolete LED bar driver ICs with a logarithmic 
output that are quite handy for building a simple (not professional) VU meter.

Lots of things to read for me!

Best wishes
Jens

On 2019-03-28 8:10 a.m., johnk wrote:
> Hey Jens...
>
> 1). Don't call it VU unless you match the actual ballistics of the 
> ORIGINAL VU meter
>
> 2). Europe tends to use a PPM [quasi-peak] system.  Peak Program Meter.
>
> 3). Consumer and pro levels are very different. They are often misunderstood 
> and hence mounds of garbage appear on the web.
>
> 4). dB is a ratio and a reference must be stated. Thus you must choose what 
> reference your 0VU is.
>
> 5). Your headphone out MIGHT be the Line Out. There are [quite a few] 
> standards for Line Level.
>
> 6]. A useful fact relates to the maximum level that can be digitally encoded. 
> A CD can produce a certain maximum digital value. That gets converted to some 
> analogue value. You can work empirically by using [say] standard test tones 
> from the web OR an audio program like Audacity to produce known digital 
> levels.   0 dBFS is the max level... BUT there can be output results higher 
> than this [long topic], so work on using either -0.3dB or even -3dB below (or 
> do I mean over?  Semantics ) this as maximum.
>
> 7). In "recent" years the "loudness wars" and misuse of Digital Audio 
> Workstations has result

RE: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

2019-03-28 Thread johnk
Hey Jens...

1). Don't call it VU unless you match the actual ballistics of the ORIGINAL VU 
meter

2). Europe tends to use a PPM [quasi-peak] system.  Peak Program Meter.

3). Consumer and pro levels are very different. They are often misunderstood 
and hence mounds of garbage appear on the web.

4). dB is a ratio and a reference must be stated. Thus you must choose what 
reference your 0VU is.

5). Your headphone out MIGHT be the Line Out. There are [quite a few] standards 
for Line Level.

6]. A useful fact relates to the maximum level that can be digitally encoded. A 
CD can produce a certain maximum digital value. That gets converted to some 
analogue value. You can work empirically by using [say] standard test tones 
from the web OR an audio program like Audacity to produce known digital levels. 
  0 dBFS is the max level... BUT there can be output results higher than this 
[long topic], so work on using either -0.3dB or even -3dB below (or do I mean 
over?  Semantics ) this as maximum.

7). In "recent" years the "loudness wars" and misuse of Digital Audio 
Workstations has resulted in CDs and digital audio having bugger-all dynamic 
range. Magnetic tape was automatically a limiter [curved]. People using digital 
should be working [say]20dB down from max but the signal level looks so 
tiny to them in "oscilloscope" mode. They think that they are getting better 
results by working "hot" and getting the best sig/noise ratios. Their loss of 
dynamic range is not a good outcome. I mention this because it DOES relate to 
the choice of 0 dB[ref].
BTW.. some digital audio actually clips! The master has too much dynamic range 
for the "cutting" [vinyl, cd , web etc] engineer. He wants it to sound HOTTER. 
Sigh.  

8). Talking the voltage levels. The term dBU refers to a bridging voltage 
measurement. These days you definitely do NOT want to try expecting 600 ohm 
impedances. The "usual" outputs are these days exceptionally low... eg way 
under 20 ohms. This way you can feed a great number of inputs from one output. 
Big topic. The problems start here for your question. Many consumer outputs 
place a series resistor for protection purposes. This doesn't affect Bridging 
(high Z meter) readings much, BUT the input impedance of the loads does. And 
the number of such loads connected. 
There are many manufacturers who conform to certain industry standards, and 
many more who don't.

9). Read Bob Katz book Mastering Audio. Downloadable, although I didn't check 
which editions. I use 2nd edit for recording because I do not do web stuff. His 
later edition(s) cover the "modern" approach.  [read Amateur Fiddling for 
modern   :-))   ]

10). I suspect that the most useful meter for your purposes is one which 
relates well to the maximum signal level and has fast response. BUT VU is so 
averaged and hence slow. There are many so-called VU that are fast reacting and 
hence display peaks. And be careful of the definitions here when you see rms 
stated. As David said, work with peak voltages that you can see on a scope.  
This is where you need to start looking at the Orban meters. I haven't checked 
but they were downloadable. Apart from the damping factor for Peak, his special 
meters that relate to perception are interesting. He covers the standards for 
TV advertising versus program content. And that leads to discussions of 
loudness [not volume].
Reminder... VU can ONLY be used when the meter has the defined ballistics. See 
the BTSJ papers from the 1940s iirc. And the original meter HAD/HAS to have the 
attenuator incorporated. The use of the meter without recognising the lack of 
sensitivity led to the actual zero level of +4dBm. The original switched 
attenuator had zero attenuation in the 4 position. It takes +4dBm to drive the 
meter to the zero indication. Big topic too. Watch out for web misinformation. 
You can check my version by referring to the papers. I can not [easily] access 
all my digital archives at present  so I am not providing full details.

11). As David implied... I think you will need a sensitivity adjustment. Users 
can calibrate the zero to represent whatever they want. The meter 
characteristic/ballistic HAS to be known by a serious user. There are examples 
on the web. 
Whatever you do has to provide for the whole audio chain.. there has to be 
headroom everywhere so that there is no clipping.


12). Here is a typical online statement - this one form Audio Technica :-

"Line level refers to the typical level (strength or amplitude) of the audio 
signal from mixers, signal-processing equipment and other consumer and 
professional audio gear. There are two line level types: consumer and 
professional. Consumer line level is generally thought of as a signal whose 
level is at -10 dBV (0.316). CD players and DVD players are examples of 
consumer line level equipment. Professional line level is generally thought of 
as a signal whose level is at +4 dBu (1.23 volts or significantly higher). 

RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

2019-03-25 Thread johnk
And I’d ask about mains stability.

Was half-wave ruled out?

 

John K

 

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of petehand
Sent: Monday, 25 March 2019 18:43
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Q: Active full-wave rectifiers

 

I would use four discrete schottky diodes in a bridge, and a low dropout 
regulator like an LM1117. The 5V version of the LM1117 regulates down to 6.2V 
input and delivers 800mA.

 

 

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: How dangerous is 150V - 170V DC?

2019-03-09 Thread johnk
I was involved in the testing of Residual Current Detector designs in the ‘90s. 
I know that you are discussing the DC at present but you guys also play with AC.

When it comes to a shock the path of the current is very important.

Research the topic a bit. AC and DC.  It is surprisingly complex.

 

While you are at it look up what this guy did…

https://ethw.org/Oral-History:Gottfried_Biegelmeier

 

>From the RCD era I have his papers somewhere AND a video of him him a bathtub 
>electrocuting himself –well, shocking anyway for you purists.

I wonder if it is on youtube or the web somewhere?

 

HMM, start with this one.

  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08r27LnLHCM

 

 

And because we are discussing shocks… I must take this chance [as always] to 
say that Edison was a lout and should have been electrocuted.

For the elephant, let alone the rest of his atrocities.

 

 

John K

Australia

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill Notfaded
Sent: Saturday, 9 March 2019 01:23
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: How dangerous is 150V - 170V DC?

 

I think Eric aka Tidak hit the nail on the head... it's not so much the voltage 
as the amperage that kills you.  I=V/R  You can plug the variables into ohm's 
law and figure it out pretty easily.  With high resistance even 170V doesn't 
equal many amps.  I think it's all about potentially how many electrons can 
flow (voltage) and how easily they are flowing (resistance).

On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 1:19:42 AM UTC-7, Thomas Kummer wrote:

I’m very reckless when it comes to my Nixie projects. I’ve shocked myself with 
150 - 170V DC more times than I care to admit, and every time I’ve done it, the 
shock isn’t that bad. However, every time I’ve done it, my hands have been dry, 
and there’s been a series resistor somewhere in the circuit. I’ve been tazed 
before, and the Nixie 150-170V is no where near as bad. Is it the resistors 
that have saved me, and I should thank my lucky stars that they were there? Or, 
is it the fact that 150-170V DC isn’t as dangerous as everyone makes it out to 
be? I mean either way I know I should be more careful. I guess what I’m getting 
at is what are the chances of me accidentally doing any significant  harm to 
myself from a Nixie project? 

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Re: [neonixie-l] NL-50944 Infos?

2018-05-18 Thread JohnK
Great value in that reminder Gaston; well done.

Another regulator arrangement that needs great care is this.
I have seen instances where the shunt regulator is designed to deal with the 
expected change in current in the load.
For instance the load might always draw at least 70mA and never more than 100mA.
Should the load go open-circuit [or be unplugged] then the whole 100mA has to 
flow in the regulator which in this case 
was designed to only cope with 30mA plus a minimum current that allows 
regulation to occur.
[Back in the 1970s I saw a zener supply let out the magic smoke.]

OT:  but might apply to valve clocks. I have also seen screen bypass capacitors 
rated for the screen voltage and not for the usually higher rail voltage.
When the valve is removed from the socket [or goes opencircuit] there is 
supposedly no DC in the capcitor so the rail voltage appears across it.
In practice many capacitors survive because electrolytics are notorious for 
conducting. [Obviously there are safety margins in ratings etc too.]

John Kaesehagen

  - Original Message - 
  From: GastonP 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 11:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] NL-50944 Infos?


  Actually, in most if not all of the voltage regulator/voltage reference 
tubes, at least a pair of the pins are used as security feature. This is just a 
short circuit between two pins that are used to disconnect the output of the 
power supply when the regulator is not in the socket to avoid unregulated high 
voltage going into the load when the regulator/reference is not in.
  It is interesting to see that very few of the new circuits that use this 
voltage regulators do not make use of this security feature.

  On Friday, May 18, 2018 at 3:02:32 AM UTC-3, Tomasz Kowalczyk wrote:




Voltage stabilizers use extra pins just for rigidness of internal structure 
- they are essentially neon tubes, like nixies, but have larger working areas 
to support currents varying between 5mA and 30-40mA. So their model has only 
two electrodes, but as there are more present in the envelope, then why not use 
them as extra mechanical support.

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Re: [neonixie-l] circuit board creation.....

2018-05-07 Thread JohnK
Consider asking on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oz-Wireless

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: 'orange_glow_fan' via neonixie-l 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 9:57 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] circuit board creation.


  Hi Guys,

   First off let me say that I know little about porting a circuit design into 
a workable PC board  design.. I could probably do this using perf board and 
point to point wiring, but I'd prefer something more reliable (and probably 
better looking)

  Having said that, can someone tell me how to do exactly that with the 
pictured circuit?? This needs to be as compact as possible. 

  It is a replacement for the old 67 1/2 volt 'B' battery used in vintage AC/DC 
tube radios. The transformer is pricey too!  I've tried contacting the author, 
but there has been no response. The article was written back in 2003, by a 
radio collector in Australia and I'm not sure if he still 'around' 

  Thanks for your input..

  Kerry




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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Half-digit neon bulb 25/15 mm long

2017-11-04 Thread JohnK
The web is full of fact and OPINION so be careful which content you choose to 
believe [we all know this].
AFAIK the usual electros that we encounter are not a PCB problem, but ARE 
various other problems. If standard electros have PCB content I definitely want 
to know - but I really avoid contact/association with any leakage anyway. I 
worry about the aroma that can be detected from certain brands. I have some 
small green electros from the 1990s that are stored in small sealable plastic 
bags with a small square of paper inside as a label. Many of the pieces of 
paper show brown stains where they have been in conact with the capacitors 
[particularly the seal around the legs]. They obviously do leak  - and who 
knows how much gas comes off too.
These particular ones I kept because there was a spate of these exploding 
during product testing. The very obnoxious "dead fish" smell given off bothered 
me. The management made poor attempts to garner information from the 
manufacturers. I kept them in case health issues arose.

[On the subject of outgassing:- last year we had twenty light bulbs/CFLs 
replaced free through a system forced on power companies by the government.
The Edison screw 10W bulbs were OK. The bayonet 10W bulbs produced an acrid 
chemical smell. The opaque white plastic of the base was the culprit. I had 
quite a bit of difficulty getting replacements out of that supplier. They may 
or may not have been in discussions with the lamp manufacturer/supplier BUT 
were exceedingly annoyed when I kept a single sample back from the exchange. 
That probably says something !
I made a couple of simple attempts to interest government and goverment 
utilities in the possibility of a danger. I would have to push quite hard for 
it to go anywhere. I currently have serious health issues that have put that on 
hold.]



Here is a nice document for those in Australia:-
http://nepc.gov.au/system/files/resources/378b7018-8f2a-8174-3928-2056b44bf9b0/files/anzecc-gl-identification-pcb-containing-capacitors-information-booklet-electricians-and-electrical.pdf

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:55 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Half-digit neon bulb 25/15 mm long


  If I had to guess, one or more electrolytic caps has probably dried-up and is 
no longer working as a capacitor. Probably a good idea to replace all of them 
with fresh ones. Keep an eye out for corrosion on the PCB from leaky 
electrolytics, and be aware that some probably contain PCBs (not printed 
circuit boards, but highly toxic Poly-Chlorinated Bi-phenyls).


  I always got a laugh about cost-cutting by using a neon bulb instead of a 
nixie tube for the leading '1' digit.


  I bought 2 Fluke 8000 DMMs several years ago (they are LED, not nixie) 
because they were very reliable when I was a technician. But they have accuracy 
issues, and some of the pushbuttons dont work very well. I'll probably give 
them away as-is to anyone willing to pay shipping costs. Some things dont 
improve with age

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   Virus-free. www.avg.com  

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Re: [neonixie-l] How many push-buttons for settings?

2017-10-12 Thread JohnK
An aside:  If that board gets buried in a hard to open box, consider "gluing" 
the clear plastic sides on those 3mm sockets. It sometimes doesn't take very 
much angled force on the plug [like a cable pull] to pop the side off.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: newxito 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 10:26 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] How many push-buttons for settings?


  My first clock did not have any buttons because there was nothing to adjust. 
For my next clock I plan to use 6 buttons. I already made a prototype of the 
connector PCB.

  button Menu: navigates through menus, menu numbers are shown on the left 
nixies

  button Set: navigates through possible values for a menu, value numbers are 
shown on the center nixies

  button Esc: always returns to clock mode

  button Red, Green and Blue: directly set brightness level if in rgb colors 
menu. The current level (0-16) is shown on the right nixies. 



  Example: 

  Menu 8 = led mode: 

  Value 1 = off, 2 = constant, 3 = hour, 4 = transition

  Menu 9 = led colors:

  Value 0 – 23 = hours, 24 = constant color

  Level Red 0-16 (shown on right nixies if button Red 
pressed, press button Red again to adjust to next level)

  Same for button Blue and Green.



  What do you think about this? Too many buttons?

  It’s just a hobby, I don’t sell the clocks but maybe I will give some away to 
friends and relatives. My experience is that older people (like me) have 
problems with multi-functional or timed buttons. I think that the Esc button is 
important if I must give “remote support”.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Weird display (possibly OT)

2017-09-21 Thread JohnK
Reminds me of the stacked number [globe lit, prob not neon lit] display in 
the frequency counter by [probably] Advance.
I have one but it is buried right now. There used to be a photo in the 'old' 
photos section.

Couldn't spot one quickly with a web search.

John K


- Original Message - 
From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F." 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 3:34 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Weird display (possibly OT)



Hi

As i'm interested in nuclear items, i follow a few searches on ebay

Today i spotted this
http://ebay.com/itm/132309322622

No intrest in the item, but look at the weird display they used!  Possibly 
there is a bulb behind each number, like a edge lit. Never seen one of 
these...


Its probably a pain to read out a number like 9251 or so...  :-)


Any info about these curious displays?

Regards
Jonathan

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: PV Electronics R568 Clock Project With Black R|Z568M Nixie Tubes

2017-09-21 Thread JohnK
Bit of a note re static. There is more to behaving properly than you might 
think.

-The IC tubes known as 'antistatic' were just coated so that the triboelectric 
effect was less. Those tubes were not protection against local static 
discharges. 

- read up on Faraday shielding.  And the conductive and sealable bags/tubes.

- And the requirement for earthing/grounding parts and people properly. 

- The common 'earth it or ground it ' practice causes dangerous situations.  
Especially when not current limited..
Consider this experiment.
Earthing something and then moving it should be safe - right?
Set up a simple electrophorus.   eg a chargeable surface and a metal disk on an 
insulating handle.
Charge the surface, bring the disk near it and then momentarily earth the disk.
That disk is discharged and at earth potential, right? Momentarily earth it 
again to check - no spark.
Now move the disk away. Maybe bring it up to the end of your nose. Won't get a 
spark off it will you? Or will you?
Of course you will. The momentary earth was applied while the disk was in a 
strong electric field ['electrons' were pushed out of it or sucked into it].

I used to use that demonstration to get the bench techs to rethink their static 
procedures. The majority of techs guess that the disk stays 'discharged'.

I have mentioned only a tiny part of the topic of course. 'We' also used to 
have failures during wave soldering and the board handling before and after it 
too.
I built a small electroscope out of a coffee jar, tin lid and some thin 
conductive 'antistatic' plastic bag. I used that to demonstrate charged people 
and areas. Wasn't as sensitive as the electronic device procured from the ' 
static protection ' company BUT it had a much better influence on the workers. 
They could SEE the plastic move when it was charged.

Protecting static sensitive components during all the phases of their 
association with you is not as easy as you might think.
Probably the low failure rate is due to their actual robustness and not your 
procedures. But, by that, I don't mean stop being careful.
Note: when static is misunderstood though, some so-called intuitive procedures 
are making the situation worse. The guys who didn't guess right about the 
electrophorous can't be trusted to handle parts correctly. eg What if they did 
all the 'right' things and then when the job was finished they removed their 
earths/grounds etc whilst the product was actually in some degree of electric 
field. The product [or insulated conductive parts of it] is the 'disk' of the 
electrophorus

The above is just a nudge to read up on it; I am not an expert.

John Kaesehagen
Australia


  - Original Message - 
  From: Edward Van Belkom 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 2:56 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: PV Electronics R568 Clock Project With Black 
R|Z568M Nixie Tubes


  How about add a piece of antistatic foam to the bottom of the foam?

  On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-5, gregebert wrote:
Be careful with any plastic contraptions; they can create ESD problems. As 
long as no ESD-sensitive parts are on the board during handling, no worries.


If you do have ESD-sensitive parts, it's probably best to mount them last. 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: tubes/valves and Global Shipping

2017-09-18 Thread JohnK
[I am a bit behind in my reading :-)   ]

Didn't someone [here or TCA Group] say that those twits are judging mercury 
content by the 'mirroring' seen on a tube? [and/or just its era.]
Any getter flash etc will be mistaken.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Manuel Azevedo 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:36 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: tubes/valves and Global Shipping


  Just got "hit" by this GSP problem: 6 Apollo DA2010 "disposed off" because of 
dangerous mercury levels.
  The thing is, I checked and I was convinced that Numitrons didn't have 
mercury - couldn't find any information they contain it.
  I had other two DA2010 delivered last week via GSP without any issue. This is 
insane.
  And such a rare tube - they just destroyed 6...


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Re: [neonixie-l] Something a little different

2017-06-29 Thread JohnK
And what mains voltage was it originally intended for?

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Andrews 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 7:23 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Something a little different


  While wandering flea markets looking for nixies, or things I can put nixies 
in, or things I can take apart to use in a clock, I came across an actual bona 
fide bargain for something completely different that I had always wanted. A 
vintage fan! I thought some of you might be interested (I know at least one 
other person who likes both, so there must be more right?) so here are some 
photos. Amazingly the fan actually worked. It looked like it was actively being 
used in a carpenters workshop right up until they decided to sell it. It was 
spotted with paint and choked with sawdust, but mechanically it had been looked 
after. I took it apart, cleaned it up and re-wired it (the head wire was 
original and fraying). The only thing that doesn't work is the oscillator, and 
I can't find any way in to that.


  BTW, the thing blows a gale, even at half speed - yes the speed selector 
works, though the lever has broken off. These photos were taken over several 
weeks:



















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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: tubes/valves and Global Shipping

2017-06-28 Thread JohnK
When I mentioned "rules" I meant it as distinct from the laws and regulations.
I was meaning the writing of job procedure rules that allow them to work within 
the laws. For example - how to tell the difference between a getter flash and 
mercury.

Impossible though; too many reasons why it wouldn't work - the main one being 
economics.

The stories about losses in the Global Shipping Triangle continue.
Seems that the hint from Rodney covers it - ALL items in the tubes (etc) 
category get crushed/incinerated/stolen.

John K.

  - Original Message - 
  From: SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 8:39 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: tubes/valves and Global Shipping


  I think its also a big part of just regulations.

  Would you (thinking as a company) ship items that contain - or could contain 
- a substance that ist banned?. If a substance is not allowed by rules, you 
can't blame the company shipping the packages if the will not break the rules. 
Its the same thing about "writing a low value" for customs - many people do it, 
risking a penalty, some people don't to follow the rules.


  Alot of RULES are made completely idiotic and senseless, thats where the 
problem is.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: tubes/valves and Global Shipping

2017-06-22 Thread JohnK
err, I think the point is NOT TO use the Global Shipping by selecting another 
category, because they DO open [some/all] packages. See various stories 
circulating. They obviously find it easier when the description tips them off - 
like the guy who lost his amplifier, NOT just the valves in it.

I bet they will stop handling anything with lead solder. [I had argument with 
local authority about disposal of colour TV CRT glass - it is lead glass. They 
had been screaming about the amount of lead being handled ! They treat it as if 
it is actually free lead or toxic free-salt/compound. Same with mercury. I 
don't know what lack-of science and chemistry is taught these days but it is 
totally pathetic! When we live in an "advanced" culture it behoves us to know 
an amount of stuff. It can't be totally a Nanny State. Old episode of the 
Simpsons last night where they made a joke in a speech about "get a half-life" 
makes me ponder whether it just went straight over the heads of the majority of 
viewers. People tend to vote and politicians get to decide about waste dumps 
etc. How can "we" get the right answers when the voters are clueless about the 
issues. The Greenies and 'enlightened' pollies here in Oz have done a lot of 
damage over the years through being rather ignorant - just enough knowledge to 
be dangerous. Doesn't matter how good the science advisers are - the pollies 
get to set the terms of reference and the scope. 
Reason for the above... a lead-in to this.   That tube guy said he had been 
checking out the ebay setup with ebay guys. 
How about someone who is a stake holder trying to chat with the global shipping 
ninnies?

BTW, I had totally forgotten the very "cute" reaction of mercury and aluminium 
until the topic of "how much mercury is allowed on an aircraft". I was reminded 
when I Googled for why it is dangerous.
As I wrote in a post to TCA...
"On the topic of mercury. I had forgotten why mercury isn't allowed on 
aircraft, so I Googled it again.
http://wordpress.mrreid.org/2013/08/07/mercury-and-aeroplanes/
"But if the raw elemental aluminium is exposed (e.g. by a scratch) and comes 
into contact with mercury it forms an amalgam, tearing away at the aluminium 
and causing it to lose its structural integrity. As the aluminium is eaten away 
it combines with the air to form aluminium oxide and falls away (as seen in 
this video). This allows the mercury to reach fresh aluminium and the process 
then repeats, so a small amount of mercury can do a large amount of damage. If 
a mercury thermometer were to leak aboard an aeroplane the aeroplane would need 
to be taken out of service and disassembled to assess the damage the mercury 
might cause. There have been at least two incidents in which aircraft exposed 
to mercury have been written off by their insurers."   
I didn't followup sources.   It is just like those "impossible" acids etc shown 
in cartoons [and sci-fi] that just keep eating their way through something 
without combining and being used up."

I know that it is hard to write some rules that would work for places like 
Global Shipping. Hard?; probably impossible, so to meet all safety situations a 
plain "NO" to anything listed is the only way.
BUT, I want to see them extend it to all dangerous stuff. 
Cadmium plated items.
Fluorescent globes. (there is a nice German article online discussing the risks 
of a broken tube)
Paper [with dioxins].
Plastics [outgassing].
Trapped air in packages and "germs".
Sharp corners.
Small items that someone might swallow.
etc.

Shouldn't just apply to the shipping -I wonder how immune to repercussions ebay 
is if something truely NASTY is sold through them. Bet they think they have it 
tied up. Better shut them down; they are a risk to our civilisation.

John K


  - Original Message - 
  From: SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 4:55 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: tubes/valves and Global Shipping


  Pro-Tip #777  - pick a different category like "electronics"

  People who will search for it, will find it there. 

  Usually Ebay is weird like all times, either its about mercury or other 
chemicals in tubes that are restricted to ship, and since the package will be 
shipped by ebay itself, they are responsible for it. Same thing goes for 
radioactive contents (radar tubes). Another thing is the "export" restriction 
of military items, for example a "kn-6 trigger tube" is not allowed to export. 

  If you are not from US - you can still use the US-Site, look for nice items, 
and ask the seller if he sends it to you on "normal" way. Worked a few times 
for me.

  They are not really checking whats in the packgae :) I once bought a piece of 
uranium ore, very active, detectable through the package, but since the seller 
labeled it as "piece of rock", it was un noticed. 


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[neonixie-l] radiation and neon bulbs [ #2]

2017-06-22 Thread JohnK
Sorry, that earlier post just posted itself before I finished :-)

So:-
I saw this post by Joe Sousa over at TCA Group. Mailed him about posting here 
but no reply (yet). Joe was a member of the Yahoo Group, no idea if he still 
follows now.

John K
Australia.

Joe's post
"I have surveyed my collection of Philbrick K2-W, K2-X, K2-XA OPAMP modules for 
signs of radiation. These are all in plastic shells. The black modules and 
beige modules all have neon bulbs with a dab of radium paint. None of the newer 
gray plastic modules showed signs of radiation.  

None of the aluminum case tube opamps, like the SK-2V showed signs of radiation.


See the results of my survey of radiation in philbrick modules at 
http://philbrickarchive.org/geiger_counter_beta-2.pdf

This PDF also includes details for a Geiger detector pancake cell with a mica 
window that lets alpha particles through. The radiation does drop when the 
plastic case covers the radium paint on the neons.


email exchanges on this topic at
http://www.philbrickarchive.org/radium_paint_on_neons.htm

http://www.philbrickarchive.org/radio-active_neon_bulb.htm"

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[neonixie-l] radiation and neon bulbs

2017-06-22 Thread JohnK
I saw this post by Joe Sousa over at TCA Group.



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[neonixie-l] tubes/valves and Global Shipping

2017-06-22 Thread JohnK
There have been a few stories told on a few Groups about ebay Global Shipping.

Saw this just now at TCA

First Post.  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC33-NOS-Valvo-Amperex-1958-D-Getter-6SN7-GT-Vacuum-Tube-Valve-MDGGZ-/332275838610?hash=item4d5d2eee92:g:lmMAAOSw3v5YpJGn
Am I missing something here?

Reply.

".. You are very quick on the trigger today, lol. That was a test listing that 
eBay had me create. It was only up for a few minutes so that they could check 
the "global shipping program" restricted countries for different categories. 
I'm playing around with the eBay categories and discovered that Global Shipping 
has restricted shipping all vacuum tubes / all items in two eBay categories. 
Category "Consumer Electronics > Vintage Electronics > Vintage Audio & Video > 
Vintage Parts & Accessories > Vintage Tubes & Tube Sockets" is restricted in 
most every country. If you have your tubes in this eBay category your "out of 
luck" getting it shipped worldwide. Also, category "Collectibles > Radio, 
Phonograph, TV, Phone > Radios > Parts & Tubes" has the same restricted 
countries. The eBay Global Shipping program has basically declared war on 
vacuum tubes and will not ship them.  The tube that was listed with that crazy 
price is actually listed here 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC33-NOS-Valvo-Amperex-1958-D-Getter-6SN7-GT-Vacuum-Tube-Valve-MDGGZ-/232241543090?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
So, glad I could find out a little more about all the tubes getting retained at 
the eBay Global Shipping HQ and also to give you guys something to laugh about.

I'm surprised you saw that listing so quickly. It was up for a few minutes and 
then immediately taken down. I did the high price so as to make sure not to 
forget which listing was the test listing.

Take care.  Rodney at VTubeAudio  "



John K


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: LIXIE DISPLAYS

2017-06-21 Thread JohnK

"In case you're wondering, I have thought of 3D printing a mechanical 
gear-clock but I have not yet figured out how I want to put nixies in 
it"

Well, how about using up a bunch of dud Nixies? Use ones with faulty digits and 
just rotate [carousel arrangement] a working one into position depending on the 
digit required.

:-)


John K.


  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 4:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: LIXIE DISPLAYS


  It was a set of 4 stepper relays. Emphasis on past tense; poor old clock was 
likely sent to the landfill about 12 years ago. I abandoned it in my previous 
cubicle.
  Even though it was the first clock I ever designed, the sentimental value was 
drowned-out by it's unreliability.



  The actuator was fine, made a nice ka-chunk.  I got a lot of curious looks 
from nearby cube-mates when the time rolled-over at the top-of-the-hour.


  Many attempts to clean the contacts, but only got a few weeks of operation 
before failing again.
  Also, the bulb-connections were flaky. Apparently the vibration from the 
ka-chunking would jar a bulb loose.
  Or was it an irritated cube-neighbor that came by and kicked it a few times, 
in hopes of shutting it up? I'll never know.







  In case you're wondering, I have thought of 3D printing a mechanical 
gear-clock but I have not yet figured out how I want to put nixies in it

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: LIXIE DISPLAYS

2017-06-21 Thread JohnK
There are "tricks" to cleaning ordinary relay contacts, but I am assuming that 
you mean the stepper relays here?
Stepper relays are usually exceedingly reliable right to the point where the 
contacting metal is worn away. There is a caveat though - the voltage needs to 
be high  (eg 48V)  and the current preferrably in the multi-mA plus region.  
Steppers don't have that awful problem of having enough contact pressure at the 
de-energised position [which pressure then affects the field required for the 
enrgised state]. Wiping too of course.
Unless you mean you had problems with the actuator?

[I can tell horror stories from the 60s and 70s].

John K
Australia

  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 11:05 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: LIXIE DISPLAYS


  Years ago I had a digital voltmeter that used these displays, and used 
stepper relays for the "logic".  I turned it into a clock.


  The displays were OK, I prefer nixies. Having LEDs, with the ability to 
control the brightness of individual digits would be a big improvement.
  There rearmost digits will be dimmer because they have to transmit thru more 
obstacles; making them progressively brighter should solve that issue.
  Also, the displays shown on the website were manufactured with much better 
materials and precision than what I had from ~1960.


  I eventually abandoned this clock because the relays were intermittent and 
would not respond to cleaning attempts.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: A Couple of Oddities

2017-06-21 Thread JohnK
Have a look at Jeremy's beaut pages
http://www.tubecollector.org/exhibits.php?cat=33


John K
Australia.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Roddy Scott 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 1:55 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: A Couple of Oddities


  The VS10Gs are Ericsson and the CV2223s are mostly STC.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Four NL-8091 on ebay

2017-06-08 Thread JohnK
Yeah, funny how we 'all' speak 'English'...
We get such a giggle from references in US sitcoms etc.

fanny
noun: fanny
1.Britishvulgar slang - a woman's genitals.
2.North Americaninformal -   a person's buttocks.

verb: Britishinformal
1.mess around and waste time. "they were fannying about in the 
street"

and there are loads more.


John K
Australia.






  - Original Message - 
  From: 'Terry S' via neonixie-l 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, June 09, 2017 12:32 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Four NL-8091 on ebay


  Cracked a fruity?


  I had to google that. 


  A friends little kids used to say that when they passed gas!




  On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 9:50:12 AM UTC-5, johnk wrote:
Well you said/he said  "My old man had a saying: 'Cheap at half the 
price!'. 
" 
BUT I suspect that you mean he might have said Cheap at Twice the Price 
when 
he meant a bargain. Dear at Half the Price is said too for when it ISN'T a 
bargain.. 
I can remember when I was doing tech work at a radio station and the 
Blurb-writer and Production team made an advert for a client where they did 
say "Cheap at half the price" and were trying to be making the point how 
cheap the product/service was. They actually needed to say the other 
version 
to make their point. I got sworn at and told to stick to my own job. It 
went 
to air. The sponsor cracked a fruity! 
There is a similar pair of sayings on another topic but it escapes my 
memory 
right now. 

Maybe I should be selling my Systron Donner clock. 

John K 
Australia. 


- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Andrews" <judg...@gmail.com> 
To: <neoni...@googlegroups.com> 
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 9:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Four NL-8091 on ebay 


> Heh. I swear the 'Make an offer' button wasn't there when I first saw 
> this. But then there were only four up for sale then too. 
> 
> Even at half price, these are too rich for my blood - bearing in mind 
> this is the price for a single tube! 
> 
> My old man had a saying: 'Cheap at half the price!'. Well, not in this 
> case (for me, if you have the disposable income for these, or can see 
> an investment opportunity, go for it). 
> 
>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:48 AM, Alic <al...@gmx.net> wrote: 
>> 
>> Don't hesitate to make an offer, since the option is available ;-) 
>> I think the price is meant to be "up to". 
>> 
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Re: [neonixie-l] Four NL-8091 on ebay

2017-06-08 Thread JohnK
Well you said/he said  "My old man had a saying: 'Cheap at half the price!'. 
"
BUT I suspect that you mean he might have said Cheap at Twice the Price when 
he meant a bargain. Dear at Half the Price is said too for when it ISN'T a 
bargain..
I can remember when I was doing tech work at a radio station and the 
Blurb-writer and Production team made an advert for a client where they did 
say "Cheap at half the price" and were trying to be making the point how 
cheap the product/service was. They actually needed to say the other version 
to make their point. I got sworn at and told to stick to my own job. It went 
to air. The sponsor cracked a fruity!
There is a similar pair of sayings on another topic but it escapes my memory 
right now.


Maybe I should be selling my Systron Donner clock.

John K
Australia.


- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Andrews" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Four NL-8091 on ebay



Heh. I swear the 'Make an offer' button wasn't there when I first saw
this. But then there were only four up for sale then too.

Even at half price, these are too rich for my blood - bearing in mind
this is the price for a single tube!

My old man had a saying: 'Cheap at half the price!'. Well, not in this
case (for me, if you have the disposable income for these, or can see
an investment opportunity, go for it).


On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:48 AM, Alic  wrote:

Don't hesitate to make an offer, since the option is available ;-)
I think the price is meant to be "up to".

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Re: [neonixie-l] Four NL-8091 on ebay

2017-06-08 Thread JohnK
I have a clock using NL 8091.
It is a Systron Donner master display that could also drive a slave [or more?].

I posted details in th eold Yahoo group. 
Googling this "  not-small nixies in Systron Donner model 8181 clock display   
" will get some of it.
I looked at the old group photos and can't see mine.

However, a Google also finds this picture of one in not-so-good condition   
  
https://www.tubeclockdb.com/component/kunena/11-ebay-finds/2218-systron-donner-model-8181-big-nixie-clock-w-nl-809.html

It is too hard to photograph mine right now. 
I suppose that I should have bought the slave display too  -  it was only $15 
iirc.

John K
Australia.





  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Andrews 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 7:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Four NL-8091 on ebay


  I would love to see a clock made of these. Anyone with deep pockets?


  Here is one over at bad Nixie: 
http://www.badnixie.com/The_%22RackMountable%22_Nixie.html. As my wife would 
say 'Le sigh'.

  On Jun 7, 2017, at 5:05 PM, David Forbes  wrote:


He may have bought these tubes from Richardson in 2009 for $50 each, and 
held onto them until he thought that he could recoup his invenstment.


On 6/7/2017 2:01 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. wrote:

  Now he has 9pcs! I have bought other tubes from that seller and don't 
think its scam, but i wonder where he gets all that stuff ... Like he sold 
around 100pc of 6091 tubes



-- 
David Forbes, Tucson, AZ

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

2017-06-08 Thread JohnK
Glass cracks tend to travel. I wonder if the ' glue ' they use for car 
windscreen cracks might help?

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert L 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 4:18 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am



  OK... Tubes just arrived in good condition from USPS, mixed results testing 
them... But both tubes have multiple working digits.


  Crack in the glass on tube 10 does not go all the way through... Not too 
surprising as the glass is about 3 mm thick! the better part of 2 mm glass 
intact.


  Tube 9: working digits: 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 0
  Tube 10: working digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 0


  Not bad! Would have loved one tube with a complete set of digits, but no 
complaint!


  Suggestions on applications with this limited set of digits? A clock 
displaying 12:37 all day long and right twice a day? A restricted output random 
number generator? Ideas???


  B

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Re: [neonixie-l] Pulsed DC vs direct DC in cathode poisioned

2017-05-30 Thread JohnK
err, watch the potential there. Scope earthed/grounded? Scope floating? HV 
supply earth/gnd referenced?


Maybe a different technique for a non-EE?

John K

- Original Message - 
From: "Instrument Resources of America" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Pulsed DC vs direct DC in cathode poisioned



No need to lift the anode resistor. Just place a scope across it, and
measure the voltage pulses, and then calculate the pulse current.   Ira.


On 5/29/2017 10:08 PM, Trumpeter wrote:
If I lift the annode resistor I can take a measurement in line between 
the resistor and where it is soldered to the board no? Maybe I'm doing 
this wrong?




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Re: [neonixie-l] B5750 Nixie tubes for sale in a week or two...

2017-05-19 Thread JohnK
PayPal oftens pays for returns. But it might give a black mark.

John K

  - Original Message - 
  From: Craig Smith 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 3:04 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] B5750 Nixie tubes for sale in a week or two...


  OK, I saw an auction on eBay for B5870 Nixie tubes. By the time I got home 
and went to buy them, the auction was finished, but the same seller had another 
auction going.

  The pictures looked similar, and I assumed they were another load of 
B5870.I bought 20 and them and a couple days later (after the seller had 
posted them, from America), I re-read the details and found out they were 
actually B5750 tubes. The seller said that I can send them back for a refund, 
but due to me living in the UK and the obvious postage cost, I thought it may 
be easier to sell them on here.

  So, if anyone is interested in some used B5750 tubes, I will have 20 of them 
in a week or so. I will obviously test each one to make sure they work.


  If anyone is interested in all of them, or just some of them, please PM me.


  Thanks

  Craig


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Re: [neonixie-l] eBay GSP disposes of CRT for no reason

2017-05-16 Thread JohnK
Wonder if any of their lighting is fluorescent tubes  :-)

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Instrument Resources of America 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:26 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] eBay GSP disposes of CRT for no reason


  From the way that reads God help us all, if they find out that Nixies DO 
contain Mercury, albeit a minuscule amount.  HOWEVER, ANY amount of mercury is 
forbidden on commercial airliners as far as I know.   Ira




  On 5/15/2017 4:28 PM, Nicholas Stock wrote:

Aaron, that sucks big time. I'm a big fan of Brimar tubes and the fact that 
they trashed it without prior notification is not only painful to hear but 
would make my blood boil. Just imagine if they did that to nixie tubes or other 
vacuum tubes that actually contain Hg


Ass-hats.


Thanks for the heads up...I've had quite a few CRT's shipped 
internationally, but none of this nonsense (thank your deity of choice).


Nick (ashamed that the correspondent shares the same moniker...) 



On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Oscilloclock  wrote:

  I can't help but share this experience with the Global Shipping Program. 
I bought a beautiful Brimar CRT and it was duly shipped to the GSP centre, 
after which ... they promptly disposed of it without the seller's consent! (And 
for no valid reason.)

  And the "Sent from my iPhone" ...

  --
  Dear X (the seller)

  My name is Nick. Thank you for contacting eBay’s Global Shipping 
Programme department.  I understand you require more information for item 
#272653050020.

  Your sale of item #272653050020 through the Global Shipping Programme 
couldn't be delivered because the shipment contained items that were found to 
be restricted from transport.

  If an item arrives to our shipping hub and the item is restricted from 
international carriage, our hub will not proceed with the shipment and will 
safely dispose of the item. This is process is subject to dangerous goods only. 
 In this instance the item contains amp tube(s) possibly manufactured pre-70s. 
In that era most lamps & tubes had mercury reflectors. In the absence of clear 
data ruling out the risk, your item has been rated UN3506, Mercury contained in 
manufactured article. Class 8, Corrosive & Toxic. Restricted to all countries 
on our system

  By choosing to ship your item with the Global Shipping Programme, you 
agree to certain terms and conditions of the programme, one of which is that 
when an oversized item is received at the shipping hub, it is liquidated and 
the buyer is refunded by eBay. No money will be or has been taken from your 
account.

  I am sorry we have not been able to forward your item. We thank you for 
all of your eBay business and hope that this information has been helpful.Kind 
Regards,
  eBay Global Shipping Team

  [THREAD ID: 1-1GP2FBSY]

  Sent from my iPhone
  Reply

  Brimar cathode ray tube
  

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Re: [neonixie-l] Video with nixies display in old secret place

2017-04-23 Thread JohnK
Seem to remember an effort to put clips and pics into one folder though - 
but whether that was before or after AJ (?) revamped the albums.


John K


- Original Message - 
From: "Nick" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Video with nixies display in old secret place



Just FYI, there are several moderators here :)

There have been threads over the years documenting "sightings", but not 
one single consolidated list.


If we have a volunteer or two, we could put such a list in the "database" 
section of the library.


Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes

2017-04-21 Thread JohnK
Yep, wonderful stuff and I was aware of it.  By Dalibor's work I meant more 
than the production -sorry, me being language-lazy. The tantalizing stills 
at the start and of the move to the castle are more the thing I meant. A 
complete "life of..." I guess :-))   The everyday things that don't get 
recorded but are treasured later [and not just for their rarity].
It brings to mind bugs in an archaeology show we are getting at present. It 
often uses "dig cam", that is the self filming by the teams. The vid is 
fine, the audio is often atrocious. Seems they don't know about muffling 
wind noise  :-( What a missed opportunity!


John K



- Original Message - 
From: "Malcolm Miles" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 9:22 PM
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie 
tubes





I know that there have been video snippets of Dalibor's work,
but it warrants a full documentary.


The Art of Making a Nixie Tube
37 minutes of sheer amazement at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxL4ElboiuA

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Malcolm

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes

2017-04-20 Thread JohnK
I do not know how to properly applaud Dalibor. It seems such an empty thing 
coming from myself. I am just an observer.
However, I am so absolutely impressed with what he has done. It quite goes 
beyond the obsessive amateur radio guys filling a room with gear, the amateur 
scale-railroad enthusiasts who fill a workshop and make ride-on trains. We have 
all seen TV docos and interviews with such people.
Dalibor seems to have had an idea and made it into a dream and then is well on 
the way to realising that potential. He seems to have kept his feet on the 
ground.
Perhaps I feel this way because my wife and I have 10 minutes ago  [together] 
read the book "What do you do with an IDEA?", Kobi Yamada, illus Mae Besom, 
2014. [Don't overlook another one by the pair - "What do you do with a 
problem?" and perhaps "The most Magnificent Thing", Ashely Spires.]

I know that there have been video snippets of Dalibor's work, but it warrants a 
full documentary.  I hope that there is someone in the loop who can do some 
Life Writing (to use the more modern term for a bio and auto-bio etc). And it 
needs to be done now, progressively, not in 20 years.

I think that the Japanese concept of "Living National Treasure" applies to 
Dalibor. "Well done, that man!" as the Brits might say.
His staff and family deserve some accolades too of course.


John Kaesehagen
Australia.





  - Original Message - 
  From: Dalibor 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 4:46 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes


  Hello!


  I am sending few notes to this topic, from a perspective of someone who spent 
last 5 years exclusively in nixie tubes manufacture ;-)


  IMHO, $25 nixie tube is not possible. Nixie tubes were never so cheap, even 
in 60s, the less expensive tube from Burroughs was for $8 (equal to today's 
$64) when bought in a quantity of 1000pcs, type B-5016, no mercury. Large tube 
(B-7094) were for $30 (today's $240). In this time, the nixie tubes were 
cutting edge technology with generous budget, hoard of R engineers and whole 
tube backing industry. They were produced in large quantities for lot of 
equipment, mostly measuring devices - almost never for digital clocks, they 
were simply expensive for consumer market.
  You can now find small tubes on eBay for around $5, mostly russian tubes - 
their price is now determined by market (what are hobbyists willing to pay for 
it), not manufacturing costs. They were produced in large volumes in soviet 
central planned economy, even when the demand was decreasing - this is why 
there are still full stocks of them in former soviet countries.


  You mention "current manufacturing methods", we actually dont have much new 
technologies which could simplify the nixie tube manufacture. The use of 
computers is very limited and doesnt help much. Also new technologies like 
laser cutting etc. doesnt help (only for machinery construction, jigs..). There 
are tens of operations involved in the assembly/sealing/pumping procedures - 
the quantity of machines needed for automated line would be big and their price 
very high. As NeonJohn suggested - few $M would be necessary just for the 
machinery. You would also soon find that automation make demands on supplier's 
tolerances ( e.g. glass thickness, diameter) which is beyond their standard 
production capabilities = back to hand processing.. This is one of the reason 
why large factories like Blackburn had own facilities for production of all the 
raw materials/prefabs.
  Last year, I had a meeting with people from german company producing 
glassworking machines - simple semiautomated machine just for sealing operation 
(stem/envelope) which still needs operator starts at $250.000 and its 
production capacity is not so high (my estimation was 30 tubes/hour). And this 
is one of very few pieces of equipment you can purchase, the rest is necessary 
to develop - according to your specifications and process description.


  But even if you had a fully equiped factory now, it would take you long time 
to get to working nixie tubes. It is not about machines, but about the 
operator/R - you need to know when the tube is sufficiently degassed before 
filling, what purity of the raw material is necessary, purity of the gases, 
time for aging etc.. Many factors, each of them can make your tube prone to 
failure. Not immediately, but after year of operation for instance - your 
backers will not wait years until you come up with working combination..


  Some data from our business:
  - Our price for a tube is now set to $145.
  - We make around 130 tubes per month (+ handful of clocks) with monthly 
revenue of around 20.000 USD.
  - We are now a team of 5 people and this production volume makes us really 
busy (I work 7 days a week, all day long).
  - We need 250 square meters (2700sqft) of space for our current equipment.
  - As for the "butique price" - my monthly net salary is $384, I 

Re: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes

2017-04-20 Thread JohnK
I do wish you well with the enterprise Aiden but it sounded to me as if your 
first buyers were going to carry the venture and risk aspects.

I have knowledge of Chinese manufacturing both back when trouble-shooting and 
very recently when doing the same for a mate who imports LED lighting.
You better be prepared to pop over there a few times.

Take my comments in the context of a [very] sceptical potential customer; I'll 
probably shush now :-)

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Aiden Koh 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 6:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes


  Hi John, you're right about how people shouldn't commit to buying a product 
that hasn't stood real life testing in the first place.
  I believe it promotes a culture where new manufacturers think it's fine to 
push out a product before its ready.
  I'm sorry if I sound unsubstantial; I had once contacted stem base suppliers 
in china, and they do say that they have the product line ISO 9001 certified, 
but I have a hunch that they subcontract the orders to another workshop. The US 
manufacturers carry the parts needed, and they're more reputable too. 
High-quality parts would equate to less of a headache.




  On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:37 PM, JohnK <yend...@internode.on.net> wrote:

Hmm, are you talking QA or QC?
By 'product engineer' you make it sound as if you think you can treat the 
process like a 'recipe'. You are relying on experts in the various fields 
required rather than having any direct knowledge yourself? High quality 
components can make a high quality dud too by the way.
From the lack of substance in your 'blurb' you give ME the impression that 
you are a marketer by outlook.

Regardless - people should not even consider buying until the results of 
life testing is known.

John Kaesehagen
Australia
[retired trouble-shooter ISO cert electronics factory]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Aiden Koh 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:22 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes


  I'm a product engineer taking on a new project.
  With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture In-18/Z568M 
inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25 USD/pc). I 
don't compromise on quality. hence, it will be built with parts mostly sourced 
from the US, and have the quality management system ISO-certified.

  However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if the 
minimum demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only commence with the 
project when I know that there is enough interest.

  What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist? show 
your support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be within our grasp!


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Re: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes

2017-04-20 Thread JohnK
Hah! It isn't really about the QM, it is about the technology and the 
engineering knowledge. 
Your "we" had better have some real engineers in it!
You are sounding more and more like a "Product Manager" as we call them out 
here.

Once all the technologically-required steps are known, we get the Industrial 
Engineers involved in effective factory design and QC etc.
The Product Manager is the guy who BSs the buyers.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Aiden Koh 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 6:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes


  Hi Nicholas:) I totally agree with you; considering that what we are planning 
to undertake is building a manufacturing process ground up, there would 
definitely be a huge number of pitfalls waiting for us. Most of them would 
almost certainly be different from what Dalibor had encountered too. The best 
option then would be to learn from the quality management systems used by nixie 
tube factories of the past, and form a good one for ourselves based on our 
circumstances.




  On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Nicholas Stock  wrote:

If you can indeed deliver on that promise you will have no trouble selling 
a large quantity of tubes. However, given some of the pitfalls of new tube 
manufacturing that Dalibor has encountered (and mostly solved) then I wouldn't 
take this project on lightly.


What is your minimum threshold to cover overhead?



On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 2:50 AM, Aiden Koh  wrote:

  I'm a product engineer taking on a new project.
  With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture In-18/Z568M 
inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25 USD/pc). I 
don't compromise on quality. Hence, it will be built with parts mostly sourced 
from the US, and have the quality management system ISO-certified.

  However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if the 
minimum demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only commence with the 
project when I know that there is enough interest.

  What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist? show 
your support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be within our grasp!


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Re: [neonixie-l] Constant current source design

2017-04-19 Thread JohnK
I told this story here to the previous generation of readers...
In a facility where I worked for a few years back in the mid-1970s there was 
also a two-rack-cabinet trigger tube monster.
Its task was to check the teletype data that was arriving over an HF radio 
network. When [parity] errors were detected the device issued a request for a 
re-send.
The story goes that one Friday there was a fault and it was very intermittent. 
The guy working on it was tearing his hair out and went home late that night. 
It ran fine for the rest of the weekend.
Monday morning  came and the equipment room staff tidied up and closed the 
cabinet doors. Within hours the intermittent was back.
It took a while but eventually the penny dropped. The room was lit with strip 
lighting [fluorescent tubes] banks that were seperately switched and also a 
couple of PAR 38 flood lamps had been mounted on the ceiling pointing into 
these cabinets because of the 'strange' construction and difficulty of working 
on it. The room temperature did vary quite a lot too surprisingly. Desert 
conditions outside with temp differentials of twenty-odd [degrees] C.
They eventually noticed that the fault wasn't present when the cabinets were 
open and the bright lights were on.
The particular trigger tubes became hard to get and the particular guys working 
on the equipment didn't manage to identify which tubes were the problem and 
wanted to use the 'shotgun' approach with the fault. [Longer story there  :-))  
 ]
Eventually they took the doors off and made sure that the internals were 
brightly illuminated!

John K 



  - Original Message - 
  From: Tomasz Kowalczyk 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 7:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Constant current source design




  W dniu wtorek, 18 kwietnia 2017 15:46:38 UTC+2 użytkownik jrehwin napisał:
   - while testing it I found out that striking voltage of tubes is a max 
value - I've tested one Z567M and one LC-631, they both strike with voltages 
lower than their normal maintaing voltage!


Yes, it's a maximum value, so people can design circuits that are 
guaranteed to strike even with a worst-case tube, under worst-case conditions 
(see below).


  I wonder if this low striking voltage is common among different tubes or 
does the striking voltage change with temperature.


Temperature has a minimal effect on striking voltage.  The big factor is 
something to start the ionization cascade.  If the tube is exposed to light, 
photons will do the trick.  Radiation of other forms will as well.  Worst case 
is in absolute darkness.  For some designs, striking speed also matters: the 
higher the voltage, the faster the tube will strike.  For some designs this can 
matter.


One workaround is to have a "primer" electrode, to provide a source of ions 
to start the tube.  While nixies don't normally come with primer electrodes, 
you can use a decimal point as a primer, just hook it up via a very large 
resistance.  This will reduce the striking voltage and time significantly in 
the dark.


- John




  Wow. I didn't think much about how the ionization starts. I was quite 
surprised as after reading this I turned off all lights in my room and with 
150V the same LC-631 didn't start - but as soon as I put some light on it, it 
indeed started glowing.
  Unfortunately I can't use any decimal point as a ignition starter for the 
simple reason - almost none of B13B socket tubes have a decimal point :) and I 
own mostly those tubes (ZM1040, Z566M, LC-631, Z560M).
  Thank you for sharing this information and making details of how nixies work 
more clear to me. Also thank you for sharing the idea of programming the boost 
converter to have a startup routine - this is so simple and yet I didn't think 
about it. 
  Do you know if there is an effect of lowered striking voltage for some time 
after the tube is turned off? I'm curious if it is possible to add PWM dimming 
or even multiplexing with 145V power supply with 180V starting routine. As I 
tested my LC-631 it seems to light up properly in darkness after it was lighted 
once with my desk lamp - after that I can disconnect it, wait few seconds and 
reconnect and it works immidiately. I don't know if it is a rule or just a 
coincidence.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes

2017-04-19 Thread JohnK
Hmm, are you talking QA or QC?
By 'product engineer' you make it sound as if you think you can treat the 
process like a 'recipe'. You are relying on experts in the various fields 
required rather than having any direct knowledge yourself? High quality 
components can make a high quality dud too by the way.
>From the lack of substance in your 'blurb' you give ME the impression that you 
>are a marketer by outlook.

Regardless - people should not even consider buying until the results of life 
testing is known.

John Kaesehagen
Australia
[retired trouble-shooter ISO cert electronics factory]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Aiden Koh 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:22 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes


  I'm a product engineer taking on a new project.
  With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture In-18/Z568M 
inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25 USD/pc). I 
don't compromise on quality. hence, it will be built with parts mostly sourced 
from the US, and have the quality management system ISO-certified.

  However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if the minimum 
demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only commence with the project 
when I know that there is enough interest.

  What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist? show your 
support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be within our grasp!


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Re: [neonixie-l] Video Tipps for Nixie Clocks...

2017-04-12 Thread JohnK
Well, the programs just make dodging, burning, fading, silver mask jobs etc 
easier.
Nothing wrong with using all the tools - there are some subjects that can't be 
photographed well enough no matter what the photographer's skills.
Just because air-brushing was overused doesn't outlaw it.

Face it - even use of a polariser IS cheating. 

Actually, it all comes back to the specification for the print/photograph. What 
did the customer require?

John K
[PS. both glad and sad not to be splashing around anymore]
  - Original Message - 
  From: Roddy Scott 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 7:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Video Tipps for Nixie Clocks...




NeonJohn wrote:


  One final comment.  I may be old-fashioned but anything that can be 
  fixed in a photo editor is a mistake made by the photographer.


  I agree 100%! 


  Too many so called 'photographs' are the result of hours of manipulation and 
do not reflect photography skills but rather computer skills.


  The only thing I do to mine is crop them.


  In regards to the issue of the topic, I would think that bracket 
photographing is an easy way to fix an image if you shoot in RAW then you could 
layer 2 shots together to get a better result but then again that is 
manipulation :-)





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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Constant current source design

2017-04-01 Thread JohnK
I think he was talking about a -5supply that you make from a low voltage AND 
that both rails of teh 5V supply are insulated very well from earth/ground. 
ie Floating.
Then you can wire each of its leads to a place that could be a voltage well 
above [or below] earth/gnd. Let's wait for him to pipe up. I was only 
replying early in case it put you on the right track.


Look into supplies that have "floating" outputs. Get that concept figured 
out firmly. [I noticed that you said you are willing to learn.]


jk




- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Andrews" <judge2...@gmail.com>

To: <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Constant current source design


As I see it, the base voltage needs to be -5V wrt to the emitter, so if the 
emitter voltage is 200, then the base voltage needs to be 195. Am I missing 
something?



On Apr 1, 2017, at 9:42 AM, JohnK <yend...@internode.on.net> wrote:

I suspect that he meant if you wanted the 1ve supply, then the devices he 
mentioned give it easily directly from your low voltage supply - I don't 
think he meant you to use up your precious High Voltage.  Presumably you 
are running the high voltage generator DCDC conv off a low voltage? You 
aren't getting High Volts dangerously from the mains?


John K




- Original Message - From: "Paul Andrews" <p...@nixies.us>
To: "neonixie-l" <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 11:51 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Constant current source design


If I just look at all of the circuit diagrams for various current 
limiters, it begins to seem like any combination of a couple of 
transistors and a bunch of resistors works! Hence my need to do some 
'practicals', it makes me go in to it all in enough depth to actually 
begin to understand.


BTW, how exactly would I drop 5V from 200V using a DCDC converter? I.e. 
which converter (part number?) and how would it be wired up (diagrams 
help, I'm a visual type of person).


Thanks in advance.

Maybe I should just do a masters in electronics.

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[neonixie-l] loose-pin sockets

2017-04-01 Thread JohnK
What is the latest on low stress sockets?
3D printer ones coming along?

I am keen to hear from you all about the latest successes.

Anyone contemplating a ZIF style  - either rotate or slide locking etc?

John K

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Constant current source design

2017-04-01 Thread JohnK
I suspect that he meant if you wanted the 1ve supply, then the devices he 
mentioned give it easily directly from your low voltage supply - I don't 
think he meant you to use up your precious High Voltage.  Presumably you are 
running the high voltage generator DCDC conv off a low voltage? You aren't 
getting High Volts dangerously from the mains?


John K




- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Andrews" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 11:51 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Constant current source design


If I just look at all of the circuit diagrams for various current limiters, 
it begins to seem like any combination of a couple of transistors and a 
bunch of resistors works! Hence my need to do some 'practicals', it makes me 
go in to it all in enough depth to actually begin to understand.


BTW, how exactly would I drop 5V from 200V using a DCDC converter? I.e. 
which converter (part number?) and how would it be wired up (diagrams help, 
I'm a visual type of person).


Thanks in advance.

Maybe I should just do a masters in electronics.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

2017-03-31 Thread JohnK
Yeah Chuck.. but the interesting thing is that it is supposedly very closely 
based on a TI ap note or some such.
I was looking forward to some input from the seller. But maybe this is 
public and wasn't "addressed" to him.

Still think it is/was in his interest to comment though.

John K


- Original Message - 
From: "chuck richards" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 10:12 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit



360 ohms is way too little resistance for *any* sort of
TTL pullup resistor!  That apparently got confused with
the standard *pull down* resistor used to keep an unattended
TTL input *low*.   360 ohms for a TTL pulldown is just right.

2.2k ohms is the standard value to use as a TTL pullup.
That goes for regular old 7400 series TTL, as well as 74LS
series.

The old military practice was to always use 1k ohm as the
standard TTL pullup resistor value.  Note that even when using
that 1k pullup resistance, that all we are asking of any TTL
gate which is pulled up by this, is to be able to provide 5
milliamperes
in order for for the output to go low.

Even that value of 1k ohm would work ok with either plain 7400 or
74LS.

2.2k is much more like it, however.
At that value, all we are asking is 2.3 mA, and that works fine.

360 ohms is just simply too close to being a piece of wire!!

(This is all explained in great detail on page 12 of Don Lancaster's
famous TTL Cookbook)



 Original Message 
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 19:38:26 -0700 (PDT)





I'm a little late to the party, and the discussion between old 74xx
versus
74LSxx caught my attention. In most cases, I'd favor the newer 74LS
over
the original 74xx. But the resistor values (360 ohm) paint you into
using
the older series, because 5V / 360ohms gives you 13.9mA. The value
seems to
have been chosen because of the set switch resistor values.Of course
as the
OP mentioned, removing all the 360 ohm resistors lets the unit
operate
properly. The set switches may work adequately, too.



Personally, I prefer 4000 series CMOS, for this kind of thing.


Good to see that the OP, and his buddy, figured it out.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

2017-03-30 Thread JohnK
Good outcome. I wondered what had happened.
Saw what you meant as soon as I looked at the docs. At least you know what 
tweaks to do if anymore funnies turn up [ageing, temperature etc].

You can often scavenge the old parts from recycling centres if they haven't 
actually chewed up the boards for metal extraction.
I am sure that all the boards we see leaving here for the Philipines get 
components pulled and sold on ebay.

I regret putting off getting a bigger selection of spares for all my 
'interesting' old junk - like Data General Novas.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: dave.do...@comcast.net 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 11:55 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit


  Sorry that it took me so long to get back about this clock problem. We have 
the clock work perfectly now. I have to give my friend Mike all the credit for 
figuring this out. It appears that the original clock design schematic calls 
for 7400 series ICs but the BOM calls for 74LSXX. Mike has a IC spec. book and 
after comparing the differences in the ICs we found that the 74LSXX have an 
output of 8ma and the 7400 series have an output of 16ma. We believe that the 
original design was for 7400 but in shopping for them found that there are very 
few suppliers anymore. We think that this is why they changed the BOM to 
74LSXX. With the smaller output from the 74LSXX IC and the amount of resistance 
in that circuit the current was marginal and not enough current to drive the 
other ICs correctly in the circuit. We ended up removing R1 and R3 (360 ohm) 
and leaving everything else the way it was. It works perfect now and all of the 
setting switches work fine also. Thanks for all the feedback from everyone


  Dave

  On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 6:37:54 PM UTC-6, dave@comcast.net wrote:
I'm hoping that someone out there can help me with a problem that I am 
having with a Taylor Edge clock kit that I built. After completing the kit and 
plugging it in it seemed to be working fine. Then I noticed that the 10s second 
display tube and the 10s minute display tube were not counting correctly. They 
would count from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 but then it would go back to 3 then 4 then 
back to 2 and then start the sequence over again. The 1s second and 10s minute 
tubes would count fine. I asked a friend of mine that knows a lot more about 
this stuff than I do and he recommended that I try disconnecting resistors R13 
and R15 (both 240 ohm) from the time setting circuit to see what would happen. 
This fixed the counting problem but now I cannot set the time. I can't believe 
that I am the only person that has had this problem and am hoping someone out 
there knows the answer. I am attaching the schematic.


Thanks
Dave

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

2017-03-25 Thread JohnK
Actually no idea how far "they" got relocating the files and photos from the 
old Yahoo Group. The intro to this group doesn't tell much.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/neonixie-l

I see stuff like this on the web, but it doesn't seem to match even though they 
purport to be discussing Google and not Yahoo.. "Every group comes with 100 MB 
of storage space to store all of your group's photos, documents, and more. You 
can view the amount of storage space your group is using by clicking on the 
"Files (Default)" link on the right side of your group's homepage. The amount 
of storage space currently being used is indicated at the bottom of the Files 
page."

If you look back at the early days of this Google Group, no doubt Nick spells 
it out. I seem to remember discussions about having to 'link' various Google 
products together to get the 'old' Yahoo functionality.

BUT, the good news

I mentioned the Yahoo days when I posted on 23 Feb about the military use [and 
I still need some pictures].
If you go there you will see photo and file areas. There is a lot of stuff 
stored by the Yahoo Group guys.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NEONIXIE-L/info


John K.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Andrews 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock


  What files/photos section? i.e. How do we access that?

  On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 5:07:36 AM UTC-4, johnk wrote:
Some of you might like what you see in the files/photos section of this 
Google Group or the old Yahoo Group - pics of non-nixie displays and lots of 
interesting stuff.

John K

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<>


Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

2017-03-24 Thread JohnK
Some of you might like what you see in the files/photos section of this Google 
Group or the old Yahoo Group - pics of non-nixie displays and lots of 
interesting stuff.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Manuel Azevedo 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:07 PM
  Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock


  Looks like that “Lixies” already existed before:

   

  
http://hackaday.com/2017/03/23/before-there-were-nixie-tubes-there-were-edge-lit-displays/

   

  Edge Lit Displays – never knew about this.

   

  Still a cool idea and I want to explore it myself.

   


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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

2017-03-22 Thread JohnK
I am really surprised that no-one has mentioned the you-know-who saga.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock


  On Wednesday, 22 March 2017 09:13:31 UTC+4, gregebert wrote:
I think a lot of kickstarter campaigns are started by people who have a 
good idea, but dont have first-hand experience taking a concept into 
production. It's NOT easy, and it's not cheap.


Every time I finish another clock, my wife asks me why I dont sell them. My 
usual answer is that I make nixie clocks for fun and I do it at my own leisure; 
once I start selling them it's a business with financial & schedule 
constraints. I get too much of that from my day-job (well, it's more like a 
day+night+weekend job). 
---
Regarding that guy's sob-story about his Prius..I own 2 of them and 
they are excellent, trouble-free cars.
Regarding that guy's sob story about Chinese PCB manufactureI've done 
several boards there and they are excellent quality.


  Agreed on all fronts - the sob-story is completely irrelevant - he could 
still have pledged to return the money over time and if I was a backer, I'd be 
really piss*d about this. His own/personal problems/stupidity are nothing to do 
with his backers.


  I also use a variety of Chinese PCB manufacturers - PCBway is my current 
favorite for prototypes - and I've never had a problem with them, assuming you 
give them decent Gerbers in the first place :)


  I've commercialised a few items over the years, but I gave up being an EE 
professionally many years ago as it's a tough old world. Bring a product to 
market requires a lot of careful planning and risk assessment, both commercial 
and technical - you shouldn't even consider Kickstarter until you have a few 
working prototypes, i.e. Kickstarter is not a way to realise your technical 
fantasies!


  Anybody thinking about this, just do a lot of upfront reading first and, 
please, talk to people who've done that & been there - experience is 
everything: Accept that the risk should be all yours, not your backers', Be 
honest, communicate well and regularly (surprises are generally a BAD plan), 
build in contingency (that's not the same as profit, by the way!). Backers 
accept properly managed risk - some projects are bound to fail - no-one accepts 
stupidity or dishonesty.


  NIck

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Radioactive Nixies - Study

2017-03-16 Thread JohnK
"We" used a couple of tiny very sensitive [and fast apparently] scr and 
triac devices in an IR movement detector light for home use. Around the time 
models were made for the UK market a fax was received from some US agency 
via channels. It was a list of countries that it mustn't be exported to.


No attempts were made by anyone to stop re-directors or private export. Yes, 
the components were bomb-industry things.
I wonder if it was implied that they would hold the manufacturer 
responsible?


John K
Australia




- Original Message - 
From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F." 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 4:15 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Radioactive Nixies - Study



These Krytrons are nice!

I want one so bad, but sadly they seem to be export controlled from united 
states because they were part of nukes :-(


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Re: [neonixie-l] Radioactive Nixies - Study

2017-03-14 Thread JohnK
There are persistant reports here that some equipment buried at Maralinga 
[British A-bomb tests] found its way to the surplus market [ie Waltham Trading 
in Rundle Street, for those who are local. When I was at school I used to have 
a part time job there in the mid '60s.].

John K
Australia


  - Original Message - 
  From: John Rehwinkel 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Radioactive Nixies - Study


a geiger counter will do nothing to reduce your nervousness, in fact it 
might even make it worse, for no real good reason.



  Quite true.  I have a Geiger counter, and was working on a difficult project 
at work and kept getting interrupted.  I brought my counter into work and just 
left it on my desk, clicking at the usual background radiation.  It made people 
really nervous and they pretty much left me alone.


  One time, I was taking a trip to Mexico to do some shopping, and brought it 
with me, just in case there might still be some Fiesta ware out there.  TSA 
searched my luggage every single time while it was there.


  As for radioactive equipment, I used to work for a firm that built monitoring 
gear for nuclear testing.  In one test, the tunnel collapsed, crushing our 
equipment enclosure.  A couple of years later, we got a call, saying our gear 
had been excavated, but it was full of probably-radioactive dust and partly 
crushed, asking if we still wanted it.  We declined, but I assume some gear 
like that surfaces at equipment auctions occasionally.  Maybe I should bring my 
counter to hamfests?


  I had a pet that was treated with iodine-131 for hyperthyroidism once.  I was 
told to discard any bedding after a week, because it would "become 
radioactive".  I-131 is a beta emitter, and beta rays (which are just 
electrons) can't make things radioactive, it takes neutrons to do that.  The 
only real dangers are excreted I-131 and, if the betas are energetic enough, 
and I use materials of high atomic weight as bedding, they could produce X rays.

Welcome to the fascinating world of radiation, known by little and feared 
by most, for no good reason. More people have been killed by fear of radiation 
than by radiation itself.



  Truth.


  - John



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IN-14 and Mystery Tube?

2017-03-13 Thread JohnK
You run another risk.. the thing that smoked might have changed its 
characteristics compared to a 'new' one. Can make a mess of cut-and-try design.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: judge2...@gmail.com 
  To: 'Terry S' via neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:10 AM
  Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: IN-14 and Mystery Tube?


  It wasn’t the circuit. And just bread-boarding stuff, so if something breaks 
it gets junked!

   

  From: 'Terry S' via neonixie-l
  Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 9:27 AM
  To: neonixie-l
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: IN-14 and Mystery Tube?

   

  Seems unlikely. If it smoked, you did damage. Nothing in the semi world gets 
hot enough to cause smoke without some damage. 

  Revisit your circuit. If it hasn't failed yet, it will.

   

  Terry

  On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 10:19:55 PM UTC-5, Paul Andrews wrote:

Tell me about it :-/ I had smoke coming out of something the other day. 
Amazingly nothing was damaged. Live and learn!

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 10:17:17 PM UTC-4, gregebert wrote:

  If everything is properly connected, even an internal short in the 74141 
that leaked high-voltage back to the Arduino, which seems unlikely, would be 
limited to a few mA so it's unlikely to cause damage.

   

  Your biggest risk is a hookup error, or possibly ESD damage to the 
Arduino from mishandling.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

2017-03-12 Thread JohnK
Well, I was waiting off for other comments to surface or for the kit supplier 
to pipe up.

 I see a few choices:-
- contact the supplier for comment
- measure waveforms/ logic levels and act accordingly
- try specially selecting 74LSxx that work in the location [might be 
temperamental with age, temperature etc]
- try using the components shown on the schematic, ie 74xx series. BUT, check 
power supply ratings etc first

If it were mine I would want to measure the goings-on with an oscilloscope.

John K.






- Original Message - 
  From: dave.do...@comcast.net 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 5:28 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit


  Here is a copy of the BOM

  On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 6:37:54 PM UTC-6, dave@comcast.net wrote:
I'm hoping that someone out there can help me with a problem that I am 
having with a Taylor Edge clock kit that I built. After completing the kit and 
plugging it in it seemed to be working fine. Then I noticed that the 10s second 
display tube and the 10s minute display tube were not counting correctly. They 
would count from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 but then it would go back to 3 then 4 then 
back to 2 and then start the sequence over again. The 1s second and 10s minute 
tubes would count fine. I asked a friend of mine that knows a lot more about 
this stuff than I do and he recommended that I try disconnecting resistors R13 
and R15 (both 240 ohm) from the time setting circuit to see what would happen. 
This fixed the counting problem but now I cannot set the time. I can't believe 
that I am the only person that has had this problem and am hoping someone out 
there knows the answer. I am attaching the schematic.


Thanks
Dave

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

2017-03-10 Thread JohnK
OK, so now I looked at the schematic you posted [it is a slightly changed TI ap 
it seems].
I took it at face value that the BOM was correct, but I don't see one in that 
pdf you attached.

The schematic uses 7400 series.

There are  "Changes to original..." at top left of sheet 4.
In those changes I see no mention of LS being considered.

I agree that it IS a good approach to check the design calculations - 
especially in this case where the documentation apparently mismatches.

A question then... are the resistors being discussed  ( sh1  R1, R2, R3 ) 
actually  the talked about 360 ohms? Have their values been changed on the 
board or in the BOM?


John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: dave.do...@comcast.net 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 10:41 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit


  Just wanted to update everyone on where we are at on this project. One of the 
first things that my friend Mike questioned was why are we using 74LS series 
instead of 7400. I have order new ICs for everything except the 141s. Here is 
the last update that I received from him.
 
  Ok, did some quick calculations, and the drive current needed to drive the 
7417 from the output of the counter with the 360 ohm resistor to VCC, you need 
14ma.  The current output of the 74LSxx counter is only 8ma, and the 74xx is 
16ma.  When and if the 7417 see's a good logic low on it's input, it's output 
will switch low pulling the 510 ohm low, 9ma needed, helping drive the counter 
output low.  The 74LS17 can drive 30ma, so that can help once it can see a good 
logic low (.8V) on the input.  So, if we increase the resistance of the 360 ohm 
resistor to 625 ohms, that may be a place to start.  These are rough 
calculations, but I would go back to using the 74xx's instead of the 74LSxx's 
this would have been better.

  Mike




  On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 6:37:54 PM UTC-6, dave@comcast.net wrote:
I'm hoping that someone out there can help me with a problem that I am 
having with a Taylor Edge clock kit that I built. After completing the kit and 
plugging it in it seemed to be working fine. Then I noticed that the 10s second 
display tube and the 10s minute display tube were not counting correctly. They 
would count from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 but then it would go back to 3 then 4 then 
back to 2 and then start the sequence over again. The 1s second and 10s minute 
tubes would count fine. I asked a friend of mine that knows a lot more about 
this stuff than I do and he recommended that I try disconnecting resistors R13 
and R15 (both 240 ohm) from the time setting circuit to see what would happen. 
This fixed the counting problem but now I cannot set the time. I can't believe 
that I am the only person that has had this problem and am hoping someone out 
there knows the answer. I am attaching the schematic.


Thanks
Dave

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

2017-03-09 Thread JohnK

Very very good advice from Nick in these two posts.

Changing like-for-like or interchanging if easy is valid - modifications 
aren't. [Unless you deduce something from a *temporary* mod to allow you to 
fix the original problem.]
I have had to deal with the fallout from bad approaches: "We" discovered 
that, in the Chinese factory, there was an 'engineer' modifying the units 
that failed test until they worked or passed. Things like changing the value 
of a resistor in a voltage divider that supplies a ref voltage to a 
comparator making up for an IC with a leaky input ( or a solder bridge to a 
different part of the circuit as in one of the customer returns that I 
analysed).Eeek!!


John K


- Original Message - 
From: "Nick" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:37 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit


...Also, reading your problem description isolates the issue to the 10s 
digits.


The 10s are driven by 7490s whereas the units are driven by 7492s. Do you 
have the right chips in the right places?


I'd also try swapping round the 74141s between the 10s and units to see if 
the problem moves with them - 74141s can fail


Isolate the problem.

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Wanted: best few photos of Nixies in military equipment

2017-02-23 Thread JohnK
Thanks Dave, it is in the ball-park,
John k
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Brown 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:31 AM
  Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Wanted: best few photos of Nixies in military 
equipment


  John

  May not be exactly what you are after but a poke round this site and 
associated links might be worthwhile.

  http://watkins-johnson.terryo.org/surveillance-systems/RS-160/RS-160.htm

  DaveB, NZ



   

  From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of JohnK
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 5:06 AM
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Wanted: best few photos of Nixies in military 
equipment

   

  I grabbed a couple from AJ's photos back in the Yahoo days. The C-7417 Loran 
controller/display and the CP 748 radiation dose gadget.

  BUT, I really do still want other examples.

   

  I own a many-Nixie time code unit and a Systron Donner time display [larger 
Nixies] that I could photograph, but I want something more military or 
defence-related.

   

   

  John K

- Original Message - 

From: 'threeneurons' via neonixie-l 

To: neonixie-l 

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:37 PM

Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Wanted: best few photos of Nixies in military 
equipment

 

I'd like to see some, too. 

 

Back in the mid to late 80's, the US military put out a joint recruitment 
commercial on TV. It was highlighting the high tech equipment, all the branches 
used, implying that the recruits will get career building tech skills. One of 
the shots was a piece of gear, inside a tank, that clearly used nixie tubes. 
That gave me a chuckle, at the time, since nixies were long obsolete by the 
time, that commercial aired.

 

That commercial has to be floating around somewhere.  

On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 11:23:41 PM UTC-8, johnk wrote: 

I would like to get a few good pictures of Nixies in military equipment 
[not expecting it to be mobile stuff].Preferably not generally available test 
equipment but could be support equipment in the Defence industry.

Can anyone point to their favourites please?

 

John Kaesehagen

Australia

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[neonixie-l] Wanted: best few photos of Nixies in military equipment

2017-02-20 Thread JohnK
I would like to get a few good pictures of Nixies in military equipment [not 
expecting it to be mobile stuff].Preferably not generally available test 
equipment but could be support equipment in the Defence industry.
Can anyone point to their favourites please?

John Kaesehagen
Australia

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...

2017-01-26 Thread JohnK
Yeah, it probably is wrong. That was why I said it WAS 50 years ago. Maybe I 
misremembered the figure too. They did describe the experiment that provided 
the figure but I have zero recollection of that for some reason.
Maybe I misremembered more too.  Interesting that the 3 inches per hour 
would be close to 2.7 inches per hour. I still have a lot of the old school 
books - I can picture the book involved as a softcover A4 on its edge 
variety. One that was written by a group of physics teachers specifically 
for the curriculum; very easy for there to be errors in it - they got Static 
and Dynamic tube/valve curves confused.


Point is though, 'electrons' travel slowly, the effect travels quickly. Yes?

jk

- Original Message - 
From: "jb-electronics" <webmas...@jb-electronics.de>

To: <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...


27ft/s seems high, see here: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity#Numerical_example


Jens

On 1/26/2017 9:28 PM, JohnK wrote:
Many years ago [50] in school physics we were told 27 feet per second for 
'electrons' in wire and to treat "data/information" transfer like a long 
tube full of ping-pong balls where you push one in at this end and one 
falls out at the other.


John K

- Original Message - From: "jb-electronics" 
<webmas...@jb-electronics.de>

To: <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...


What I find particulary amusing is that the drift velocity of the actual 
electrons is of the order of a cm/s if I remember correctly. Jens


On 1/26/2017 11:07 AM, chuck richards wrote:

Yes, that is correct!  Because electricity travels
through a wire at the approximate speed of 1 nanosecond per foot!

Chuck

 Original Message 
From: cm...@zeusprune.ca
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:28:47 -0500


On 17-01-24 03:14 AM, Roddy Scott wrote:
Processor chips

may have gotten a little bit bigger but not by much but could you
imagine the size of a computer based on the ENIAC
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC> technology and the power
requirements? The original consumed 150KW and weighed about 30

tons, a

modern day version would need its own power station and would take

up a

football stadium

Ah but you are forgetting as Admiral Hopper liked to point out, the
size
of a nanosecond.  A football stadium sized computer could not get out
of
it's own way.

--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...

2017-01-26 Thread JohnK
Many years ago [50] in school physics we were told 27 feet per second for 
'electrons' in wire and to treat "data/information" transfer like a long 
tube full of ping-pong balls where you push one in at this end and one falls 
out at the other.


John K

- Original Message - 
From: "jb-electronics" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...


What I find particulary amusing is that the drift velocity of the actual 
electrons is of the order of a cm/s if I remember correctly. Jens


On 1/26/2017 11:07 AM, chuck richards wrote:

Yes, that is correct!  Because electricity travels
through a wire at the approximate speed of 1 nanosecond per foot!

Chuck

 Original Message 
From: cm...@zeusprune.ca
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:28:47 -0500


On 17-01-24 03:14 AM, Roddy Scott wrote:
Processor chips

may have gotten a little bit bigger but not by much but could you
imagine the size of a computer based on the ENIAC
 technology and the power
requirements? The original consumed 150KW and weighed about 30

tons, a

modern day version would need its own power station and would take

up a

football stadium

Ah but you are forgetting as Admiral Hopper liked to point out, the
size
of a nanosecond.  A football stadium sized computer could not get out
of
it's own way.

--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IN-13 Lifespan

2017-01-23 Thread JohnK
I too want to see the results of the post mortem. What IS the mechanical reason 
for the spacer being free? Please tell.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jon 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 8:27 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: IN-13 Lifespan




  Sounds like a good excuse for a tube autopsy...


  If you are indeed over-driving the current then you'll be sputtering material 
off the cathode which after a while will have two effects. Firstly there will 
be some gradual darkening of the tube as the material deposits elsewhere. And 
secondly you'll see gross physical erosion of the cathode - you can see a 
similar effect on dekatron cathodes where the glow has been sitting stationary 
for a very long time (usually the zero cathode of the tubes making up the 
higher order decades of a multi-tube counter). Given that you describe a 'tink' 
noise, my guess is that the cathode has eroded to the point where it physically 
broke, perhaps under the thermal stress of being activated. Time for new tubes.


  The Soviet datasheets only promise 1000 hour life for IN-9 - I can't find a 
similar overall guaranteed life specification for IN-13. My experience is that 
they will last much longer than that if not overdriven.


  With regard to the current required to achieve full scale, yes there's 
normally some cathode poisoning which needs to be burned off when you first 
fire up the tubes (worse on IN-9 than IN-13), but then they should settle down 
and operate at the specified sensitivity. The last centimetre or so of the 
cathode is difficult to illuminate even in a well 'oiled' tube - they lose 
linearity at the upper extreme. Best thing to do is not to worry about trying 
to light up this bit.


  Cheers,


  Jon.
   

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Re: [neonixie-l] IN-13 Lifespan

2017-01-23 Thread JohnK
But, if you get the maths right you can actually mimic the response.
[I have audio and broadcast radio station background btw]
Been here before with this argument of course. So, it is possible to get the 
same indication but that leaves the semantics to deal with.
And there are subtle aspects of the visual persistence of different displays to 
deal with too.

The argument usually revolves around the substitution of standard moving coil 
meters for the correct type. The original spec document is on the web. The 
attenuator that 'must' be used and the standard levels topic gets quite 
interesting. 
[Talking about the way the indicated value on the meter when used in its most 
sensitive setting got used as the way to refer to the actual level, rather than 
the fact that the actual level was higher - I didn't tell that story very well; 
have a look at the specs and the circuit and how the common useage developed.]

John Kaesehagen
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: Instrument Resources of America 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 6:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] IN-13 Lifespan


  As far as I know, one can NOT build a bar-graph, or neon lamp style, LED, or 
any other indicator type, of VU meter. (Perhaps you built a 'level indicator' 
of sorts.) The very definition of a VU meter (at least the professional type) 
involves the mechanical ballistic damping, and mechanical response of the 
needle and the meter movement.   Ira.




  On 1/23/2017 11:41 AM, TheJBW wrote:

About 1.5years ago, I built this really nice stereo vu-meter using IN-13 
bargraph tubes. About two weeks ago, one of the tubes made a "tink" sound and 
the current control went away -- the tube stayed ignited, but the "bar" was 
stuck at the bottom. I noticed that the spacer at the far end of the tube was 
also suddenly free. I figured this was an unlikely failure, so I replaced the 
tube the spare stock. Unfortunately, one week later, the tube on the other 
channel did the exact same thing! I've attached pictures of my drive and power 
circuitry -- the signal conditioning circuitry is omitted, but I think it 
unlikely to be relevant. I figure something must be wrong with my circuit that 
is causing early death, but I'm not sure as to what. Ideas anyone?

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Re: [neonixie-l] NE-2 bulbs dont last forever

2017-01-14 Thread JohnK
I saw a situation with a local power outlet manufacturer back in the 1990s. The 
Neons in the outlet normally lasted for years.. then a batch lasted for a few  
weeks before they went black. The same value resistor was used [and anyway, 
some of the 'new' bulbs were fitted to old flushplates to also demonstrate to 
non-tech management. The new batch failed.] The current was 2mA of ac iirc.
 The bulb manufacturer did not provide any reasons - just replaced the bulbs.  
No idea whether a wrong part number was involved, or if the supplied part was 
defective.

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:51 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] NE-2 bulbs dont last forever


  I checked my datasheet, and confirmed neon bulbs have an average rated 
lifespan of 25,000 hours at recommended current. This is about 3 years of 
continuous operation, so it seems very plausible to me that if an NE-2 bulb 
dies after 3-4 years, it's normal.


  The lifetime is a statistical average; some bulbs will last longer, and some 
shorter. My 'big clock' has 304 NE-2 bulbs, and after nearly 4 years of 
operation I've had one premature bulb failure (in this clock, bulbs are 'on' 
for a maximum of 1.3 hours/day which equates to 50 year lifespan on average). 
There's nothing wrong with the design or manufacture of this clock; it's just 
an oddball lamp that failed.


  In a different clock, I've also had an NE-2 fail after about 3 years. This 
bulb is always on, so I'd say it failed as expected.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: b7971 segment current

2016-08-27 Thread JohnK
I haven't looked at electro specs closely since the mid '90s. I was involved 
with a product that used a conventional aluminium electro in an apparently 
undemanding application. The value was 10uF and variously two types were used- 
a 10VDC and a 25VDC [ or a bit higher - I forget]. The DC voltage across the 
cap was constant at a bit under 2 volts DC and was on one of the inputs to a 
comparator.  There were issues with the product but early in the 
troubleshooting the input circuitry came under scrutiny and it was noticed that 
the capacitors were being run significantly under their 'working voltage'.  The 
capacitor manufacturers [one Euro] were both asked for comment and both advised 
against the use of that style of electro under 75 to 80% of the working 
voltage. The reasons from both related to 'forming'. It wasn't clear whether 
they meant initial forming or continued forming though. To my mind it doesn't 
explain the seemingly satisfactory operation of electros as coupling capacitors 
in early transistor radios for instance. Hard facts concerning time-frames and 
numerical values for degradations weren't forthcoming.
[BTW, the product problem was actually related to the specs for a triac being 
considerably improved by the manufacturer; the old snubber values were now 
causing the problem. ]


John K


  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Cc: jwalton...@gmail.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 2:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: b7971 segment current


  On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 12:21:56 AM UTC-7, Jeff Walton wrote:
>During the life of the clock, there were a couple failures of the caps in 
the voltage doubler 



   When your cap(s) failed, was it catastrophic ?  I've only had 1 electrolytic 
fail in recent history, and it was a low-voltage cap that dried-out and shorted 
at medium-resistance in a Heathkit device (not a clock). No smoke, etc.


  I've tried to prevent/mitigate cap failures in my designs by using the 
smallest possible fuse, keeping the caps away from any heat, staying well below 
the rms/ripple current spec, and using a higher voltage rating  than necessary 
(eg 450v cap running at 340VDC).


  Recently, I found caps designed for solar-energy applications (TDK Epcos) 
that boast 85C operation for 10,000 hours, so I use them now. Most 
electrolytics are rated for 2000 hours. That doesn't mean the caps will fail 
(ie, explode) in 2000 hours; they just wont be within spec (capacitance 
out-of-spec, but otherwise functional).


  Electrolytics are a strange beast compared to other components.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Burroughs Panaplex II clock display...

2016-08-05 Thread JohnK
Try this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krypton-85

You might be surprised at the number of tubes that over the years have had 
'radioactive' contents. Many gas discharge devices had it added to regularise 
the characteristics for light/dark operation (trigger tubes and regulators) or 
their trigger parameters (eg TR cells). 

Some of the WWII era radar devices [and later ones with warnings displayed] 
have truly dangerous types and quantities of 'radiation'. There are web lists 
of tube types.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: ZY 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 5:19 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Burroughs Panaplex II clock display...


  What does the Kr85 stand for? I see it on one of my displays too.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nl-8091 tubes wanted

2016-06-13 Thread JohnK
I am wondering if they are in the Systron Donner(?) clock displays? Must dig 
mine out and check - suspect they are a little smaller.
Got mine from a mil base closure in the 90s.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: A.J. Franzman 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:58 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nl-8091 tubes wanted


  I know one of our members who has some, possibly boxed NOS, but I don't know 
how many or whether he's inclined to sell so I'll let him remain anonymous 
unless he decides to reply.


  I'd like to see the equipment they're intended for! Jumbo clock/timer display 
or two, perhaps?

  On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:49:16 PM UTC-7, nixiebunny wrote:
A person in the avionics support industry contacted me, looking or a 
dozen 8091 Nixie tubes. That's the 2" diameter end-view tube. I warned 
him that these are hard to find and and expensive. 

I you have any you can spare, I'll connect you. Email me off list please.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

2016-03-27 Thread JohnK
Build a Tesla Coil in the basement?

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeff Walton 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 2:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols


  Lots of basements with radon to spare...  Too bad you can't collect that. 


   Original message 
  From: A_Nonamus  
  Date: 3/26/2016 10:17 PM (GMT-06:00) 
  To: neonixie-l  
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols 


  I understand that with a half-life of 3.8 days, getting a discharge tube of 
any appreciable size full of it would be problematic to put it mildly. But is 
it possible to closely mimic its spectrum and thus make a "simulated" radon 
tube?

  On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 11:10:28 AM UTC-7, NeonJohn wrote:
I did leave Rn out but not unintentionally.  I'm not sure enough Rn has 
ever been collected in one spot to fill the letters Rn.  If that was 
possible and the contents added to the tubing, viewing the "Rn" would be 
your dying wish!


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Off topic, but it has an orange display.. Heathkit ID-1590 anemometer

2016-03-24 Thread JohnK

Early LEDs had even lower ratings iirc.

I can remember flicking a design back where two LEDs were in parallel but 
opposite ways around for ac operation. The fwd volts of the illuminated one 
exceeded the specs for expecting long life of the other one.


John K

- Original Message - 
From: "David Forbes" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Off topic, but it has an orange display.. 
Heathkit ID-1590 anemometer



Bill,

Thanks for the long rant, but typical LEDs have an absolute maximum
reverse voltage rating of 5V. Exceeding this is not guaranteed to
destroy the LED, but The LED is not guaranteed to work properly after
such use.

It is irresponsible to recommend that people ignore the datasheet
ratings of components.



On 3/24/16 10:35 AM, Bill van Dijk wrote:
From time to time I read dire warnings about the death of a LED by reverse 
polarity. It does not happen. A LED is a diode, and is used normally in 
forward bias, with a resistor (or some other circuit) to limit the 
current. If the LED is reversed, it simply blocks the current, and 
precisely nothing happens. You can make a cool bridge rectifier with 4 
LEDs, but although technically OK, that is not very practical in most 
applications due to their high forward drop and low current tolerance. Two 
wire, bi-color LEDS use this principle where two different color dies are 
connected back to back, depending on the polarity, one color or the other 
lights. A red and green LED back to back make therefore a great polarity 
indicator. Interestingly, if fed an AC current, a third color can be 
produced, i.e. a green / red combination will shine yellow on AC. RGB LEDs 
have 3 dies, but can display many colors by lighting one or more dies at 
varying intensity. This is done through PWM, somethin

g a LED i
s very much suited for. Dimming of LEDs, as well as multiplexing of LEDs is 
predicated on PWM. Many of the newer Ultra-bright LEDs will still light 
pleasantly on 5V with series resistors as high as 1.5 kOhm.


The series diode does nothing to protect the LED, but does indeed drop the 
voltage slightly due to its forward drop. From an efficiency perspective 
it makes no difference, the diode also dissipates the drop Voltage times 
the current in heat, just as the resistor does. Since the circuit has a 
diode it is probably fine to leave it there, but adding one in a new 
design has no use at all.






--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-19 Thread JohnK
Ah, but four sets of closely-spaced elements in one envelope? Would it work?  
That is why my first reaction was that they had locally walled off the 
individual pairs but had left them all in one main gas container. I WANTED it 
to be novel like that.

However, the tops are closed - note:- you can't see the walls of tubulation. 
You can see what looks like snip/scissor lines across solid glass.
I think all the bottoms are sealed.
I will attempt to locate my other example, maybe even ask for examples on TCA.


John K
Australia



- Original Message - 
  From: Dekatron42 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?


  I just had a look at the datasheet for the tube and it is shown as all 
voltage regulators are encased in one envelope, not four separate.


  http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_zz1030.html & 
http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/128/z/ZZ1030.pdf


  /Martin




  On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 13:09:37 UTC+1, Dekatron42 wrote:
As you say it looks like the tips are open, they certainly aren't melted at 
the tip like the four separate ones.


It would be interesting to see the result if the ZZ1030 was checked with a 
plasma lamp, that would show if there is neon gas in the envelope or just in 
each voltage regulator tube.


/Martin

On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 12:49:26 UTC+1, jrehwin wrote:


OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each 
already sealed.


  I don't think they're sealed.  I think their tips are open to the main 
enclosing envelope.


  - John





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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-18 Thread JohnK
Well, when I first got that valve I thought as you do. But have a look at that 
second photo.
And, because of a previous discussion after I sent the valve to Jeremy, we have 
had him look at it closely - he agrees; definitely solid glass at those cut off 
tips.
I have a second one somewhere but it is horribly buried so that isn't an option 
at the moment.

I had really wanted them to be open because I was interested in other 
conduction paths for certain connections if the whole things was gas filled. 
Haven't tried lighting it up with a proximity voltage or microwave.


jk


  - Original Message - 
  From: John Rehwinkel 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?




OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each 
already sealed.


  I don't think they're sealed.  I think their tips are open to the main 
enclosing envelope.


  - John





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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread JohnK
[yes, my link included one of those too. Maybe the "see also" is a little 
buried.]


jk


- Original Message - 
From: "Marcin Adamski" <marcin.r.adam...@gmail.com>

To: <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?


Have no answer, except that if they wanted to have a good vacuum why not 
to use getter. But why do they needed the vacuum envelope at all? There is 
a version of this stabilizer without the envelope. Just four tubes packed 
into a single base: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_zz1031.html

Marcin

On 16-Mar-16 14:47, JohnK wrote:

OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each
already sealed.
http://www.tubecollector.org/zz1030.htm
John K

- Original Message -
*From:* Instrument Resources of America 
<mailto:iracosa...@hughes.net>
*To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>

*Sent:* Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

As I mentioned in an earlier post today getters are flashed inside
of 'VACUUM TUBES' to absorb residual 'OXYGEN' after pump down, and
possibly some external R.F. heating of the internal elements to
further degas.  OXYGEN is extremely detrimental to 'hot cathodes',
and 'hot filaments', and will destroy both quite quickly, even in
small quantities.  Ira.





On 3/15/2016 10:23 AM, Nick wrote:

Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be
vaporized, sure. But a getter? They are used to remove any stray
gas molecules given off by the glass or internal structures due to
heat & time.

Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation
prior to backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.

Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:


Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.


Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different
kind of getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the
ones with getters use "pill" getters, often on the back of the
anode, and there's normally no "getter flash" on the glass.


http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg

<http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg>

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread JohnK
OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each already 
sealed.
http://www.tubecollector.org/zz1030.htm

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Instrument Resources of America 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?


  As I mentioned in an earlier post today getters are flashed inside of 'VACUUM 
TUBES' to absorb residual 'OXYGEN' after pump down, and possibly some external 
R.F. heating of the internal elements to further degas.  OXYGEN is extremely 
detrimental to 'hot cathodes', and 'hot filaments', and will destroy both quite 
quickly, even in small quantities.  Ira.






  On 3/15/2016 10:23 AM, Nick wrote:

Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be vaporized, sure. 
But a getter? They are used to remove any stray gas molecules given off by the 
glass or internal structures due to heat & time. 


Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be 
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation prior to 
backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.


Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote: 
Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.



  Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different kind of 
getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the ones with getters use 
"pill" getters, often on the back of the anode, and there's normally no "getter 
flash" on the glass.


  
http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg


  - John


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Re: [neonixie-l] Have few questions about the NIXIE watch...

2016-03-11 Thread JohnK
I think he described/discussed the waterproofing a while back - search the 
posts for it.

John k
  - Original Message - 
  From: vfdclock 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 6:09 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Have few questions about the NIXIE watch...


  I am trying to design a cheap NIXIE watch etc.,have checked a few exist 
design,and currently seems 
  http://www.cathodecorner.com/nwl/nwld-mod-top.jpg
  looks not bad,and the circuit is easy for us to do.and I have few questions 
about the component if the guys who have already had the watch like this ,hope 
can answer my questions.
  Acoording to the pic,the socket of the tube in the pic looks like a regular 
2.0mm female pin socket,would please confirm it,because we have tried, it seems 
the legs can be installed tightly inside the regular 2.0mm squire pin 
socket.Any suggestions?
  And seems with a USB socket on the side is not a good design,that hard to do 
the waterproof,if we design the outside power pins under the bottom of the PCB 
and connect with the pins under the watch case ,will be good?(may need extra 
special wire for cherging)
  Or if have any more suggestions please sya it out.

  Best reagrds.

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Re: [neonixie-l] My CRT Clock

2016-02-27 Thread JohnK
Just take with the chance of implosion - the glass really can fly about.
Watch out for diamond rings...

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Barnes 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 4:42 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] My CRT Clock


  Hello My name is Bill Barnes. I have been a long time lurker in this group. 
I've been building NIXIE clocks for quite a few years and am amazed at the 
level of engineering expertise in this group. I fall into more of the 
technician / hobbiest category of builders and work as an instrumentation 
technician for Air Force flight test. My clocks are built and modified from 
kits. I am a fan follower of David Forbes and appreciate his design and coding 
skills. I really loved his CRT clock in the Plexiglass tube and decided a few 
years ago to try my own hand at some CRT Clocks. My clocks are based on the AVR 
O-clock board that was offered by Sparkfun. (unfortunately no longer available) 
and the Ultra simple O-scope power supply and deflection amp circuit by Jon 
Stanley. I have attached some pictures of one of my clocks. I really enjoy 
following this group. 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: High current 1.5A x150V power supply design for 100 IN9s

2016-02-10 Thread JohnK
BTW, when I said lots of small supplies i should also have said don't parallel 
the outputs - just have one common.

jk
  - Original Message - 
  From: Phill Scan 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: High current 1.5A x150V power supply design for 
100 IN9s


  Humm... I am going to have to think about this ... I am not sure I will have 
the room for lots of little supplies.


  On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 10:51:05 AM UTC+8, Zedsquared wrote:
On 10/02/2016 05:24, JohnK wrote: 
> So, off-the-shelf mains inverter PLUS simple power supply circuit from 
> the mains volts, OR add a transformer and rectifier/filter. ?? 
> If safety is an issue, a zillion small powersupplies ? 
> John K 

If you want to go the many small supplies route then I did a little PCB 
for tayloredge 1363 PSUs (45mA @ 170v), as seen here: 

http://dirtypcbs.com/view.php?share=14240=03a603186ce693a85368e67043d333fd
 

I have plenty spare as I got a batch made and only used two, I can send 
you six (capacity of 36 1363 PSUs in total ) and you'll be able to mount 
more than enough 1363 to fulfill your needs (I make it 34 at 45mA each), 
won't be the highest density I'll admit but maybe the thing you're 
making will benefit from PSUs distributed throughout its structure? 

Cheers, 
 Robin. 





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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: High current 1.5A x150V power supply design for 100 IN9s

2016-02-09 Thread JohnK
So, off-the-shelf mains inverter PLUS simple power supply circuit from the 
mains volts, OR add a transformer and rectifier/filter. ??
If safety is an issue, a zillion small powersupplies ?
John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Phill Scan 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 3:45 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: High current 1.5A x150V power supply design for 100 
IN9s


  Humm I think something like this maybe ?
  Seems to want car batteries to run it though !
  So perhaps not plug pack compatible :-(


  http://www.instructables.com/id/The-ZVS-driver/






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Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie safe current question

2015-12-10 Thread JohnK
A starting point is to look at the Average current.
Look at the On versus OFF times, duty cycle or whatever you want to call it.
Average the current over the whole time period.
eg if it is equal ON to OFF, the average would be 50%

Try working it out that way as a starting point.  eg the power dissipated 
in the resistor is found from that average too.

The guys who regularly multiplex will give you data or rule-of-thumb for it.

John k
  - Original Message - 
  From: rubli 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 2:39 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Nixie safe current question


  Hello


  I finally got to make my own design of a clock using a PIC16F886, and have a 
question...


  I am using a Optocoupler (PIC817) to drive the anodes, cathodes are driven by 
a 74141.


  collector of the opto is tied directly to my HV of 170 Volts, on the emitter 
of the opto, I have a resistor of 10K that goes to the Anode.


  I am making tests with a LD-866 Nixie (I found a wired board with six of 
them), but I pretend to use the IN-14


  I attached the oscilloscope on the anode resistor, and here is what I got:


  p/p voltage = 34 Volts so the p/p current is 3.4 mA.
  my frequency on the anode is 98 hz (I don't know if the multiplexed frequency 
is expreesed this way, sorry)


  my question is...


  how do I know if the current I am exerting on the tube is within safe limits ?


  the data sheet of the LD-886 says 1.5 mA, and the IN-14 says 2.5 mA


  but as I am multiplexing, I am lost to know...



  thanks in advance


  best regards


  Alexander Rubli, Mexico City



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: NL4998 4 digit watch

2015-11-03 Thread JohnK
1).  a shear cutter should be ok
and/or
2). wrap wire around the pin [and secure with silver-bearing epoxy?]

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 10:25 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: NL4998 4 digit watch


  No easy solution for a wristwatch.


  Tubes that are intended for socketing have thicker pins, so clipping them 
will put the tube under a lot of stress. Even a rotary tool with a cutoff wheel 
will subject the tube to a lot of vibration. 


  I wouldn't even think of bending the pins.



  I think that leaves 2 options
a.. solder the tubes directly to the PCB. The big question there is if the 
pins have a solderable surface material. Maybe you could use a rotary tool 
after soldering the tubes because the PCB will reduce vibrations traveling up 
the pins.
b.. use socket pins. It will work, but it will also worsen the height.


  Instead of a wristwatch, maybe a small wall-clock ?

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Help with HV5622 drivers

2015-11-02 Thread JohnK
re Hi-z meters. 
A useful measurement technique is to provide a variable voltage approximating 
the voltage that you wish to measure. 
eg Potentiometer across a bench supply, with a common to the circuit under 
test..
You connect you meter between the point to be measured in the circuit under 
test and the variable voltage - adjust the voltage for a zero reading on your 
meter. THEN measure the value of the variable voltage - it equals the one in 
the circuit.
[Because there is near-zero volts across your already-high resistance/impedance 
meter, the load on the circuit is extremely small.]

(or, if you are a valve freak, build an electrometer with one of the special 
valves that are available. )

John K
[and if you tube-guys don't know what valves are it is your own fault  :-0   We 
valve-guys are expected to know what tubes are. ]

  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 5:28 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Help with HV5622 drivers


  ...clip

  The exact voltage the cathodes float-to has been debated; my contention is 
that you can't accurately measure it without a high-impedance meter (> 1Gig 
ohm), so assume the cathode floats up to the anode supply voltage. Fluke 
Instruments has some appnotes about 'ghost voltages' that can only be measured 
with high impedance meters. If your driver device is not rated for the full 
anode-voltage, it could be risky:


a.. If your driver is a discrete bipolar device (ie, NPN or PNP 
transistor), there's little or no risk exceeding the BVceo rating as long as 
you limit the current. Stated another way, even if there are high 'ghost 
voltages', no worries. 
b.. If your driver is a MOSFET, be very careful. The primary breakdown 
mechanism is thru the gate-oxide, and that is destructive at any current. 
Always select a device rated higher than your anode supply.
c.. If your driver is an IC, play it safe and assume it's a MOS device 
which means dont use a device rated below the anode supply voltage. Even if 
it's an IC that uses all bioplar circuitry, it's risky because geometries are 
small and you have no idea what limitations are lurking without closely 
reviewing the entire layout of the chip. I've seen too many cases where 
experienced chip designers miss high-voltage or ESD hazards, and the chip has 
to be redesigned.








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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Multiple HV5530 question

2015-10-18 Thread JohnK
If you are going to use FPGA, then why not let it design itself?
http://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/

John K.
[there are more learned refs]
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 3:00 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Multiple HV5530 question


  Separating CLK or DATA for individual HV5530's will, as you said, accomplish 
the same result. Separating LE is another option but you have to be careful to 
keep-track of what has been shifted.  It's not obvious from the diagrams I 
posted, but I actually have 4 serial data signals on the ribbon-cable, and I 
jumper a separate serial-data signal on each board (which limits my design to 4 
boards or 24 digits with a single ribbon cable).


  It's entirely possible to construct a single serial shift-chain, but you have 
to be careful about timing between cascaded HV5530's. According to the 
datasheet, the data hold-time is 10nsec. The min prop-delay of the 5530 is not 
specified, so you have to assume it's zero. In order to guarantee hold-time 
margin, the following equation applies:  Hold-margin = MinPropDelay - ClkSkew - 
MinHoldTime. In this case, even if you have zero CLK skew, you still have a 
10nsec violation on the hold-time. Now, with real silicon the MinPropDelay is 
finite, and I suspect it's more than 10nsec, but I'm not going to risk it. In 
my case, I created a second clock signal and I can guarantee hold-time margin 
through the sequencing of the signals from my FPGA.


  Clock skew has a lot of subtleties. Yes, it's largely due to the board-trace 
flight-times, but it's also due to finite risetime of the clk signal itself and 
when each HV5530 determines the CLK is high or low. This will vary from device 
to device, and the effect is worsened with slow rise/fall times. Logic-level 
translators are quite slow, with delays in 100's of nsec; I took no chances and 
used separate clks. I could have used an inverter to create the second CLK 
phase, but that was adding another IC and I already had a spare pin on the FPGA.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies

2015-10-02 Thread JohnK
One of the 'requirements' here in Australia is/was for the primary and 
secondaries to be on separated parts of the bobbin. I haven't looked for the 
'rule', I just remember that when it was introduced the blurb with various 
electronic kits [and advertisements] highlighted the fact that the mains 
transformer met .  I prefer the split bobbin windings because they 'should' 
be safer if the transformer gets very overheated. I do not know what 
transformers are required to have the inbuilt thermal fuse.  I also do not know 
if separating the windings on the bobbin [as is done on the small transformers] 
is efficient enough to be used on larger transformers. 
There was a debate in a local electronics magazine about safety and 
transformers. It was pointed out there that toroidal transformers had a history 
of failing when hot due to mechanical pressures between the layers. I don't 
know how well-built the offending transformers were. Might have been 'cheapies' 
for an amplifier kit.

Lots of "I don't know" from me there - but it might contribute to talking 
points :-)

AND, the topic of RCDs. There are RCDs built in to mains plugs available. They 
might be good for extra safety.

One aspect of RCD useage which is often overlooked: they can shut off the power 
if there is a fire.  It can be worthwhile taking an earth/ground into "2-wire" 
equipment or installations to assist with protection against water ingress and 
fire. It is a long story, but I was in a position to analyse faults of PIR 
[passive infra red] detector installations and it is amazing what actually goes 
wrong. Plan for the worst thing to happen - it will somewhere ! 

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dekatron42 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 4:37 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies


  Can anyone direct me to a document that says that it is allowed to sell an 
electronic apparatus that uses a primary winding as a secondary winding - I 
spent a lot of time Googling this and I can't find anything. I am also 
concerned about safety and what an insurance company would have to say if a 
fire breaks out and the culprit is the home built equipment which uses a 
primary winding as a secondary winding.


  /Martin

  On Thursday, 1 October 2015 06:14:11 UTC+2, gregebert wrote:
I did some research on UL/CSA approved transformers, and there is a 
requirement that all windings withstand a minimum breakdown voltage, even if 
they are intended to be connected together, such as dual-primaries. Depending 
upon the VA rating and the voltage, the breakdown must be between 1050 and 4000 
V RMS according to how I read the spec (UL5058-2 / CSA C22.2 #66). The test is 
conducted between 1 winding, and all other windings and the core combined and 
at elevated temperature. There are copies of the spec online.


I knew there had to be some amount of isolation, but I did not realize it 
was that high. While I would never expose or touch anything that is supposedly 
"isolated", it does reassure me there is decent insulation.





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Re: [neonixie-l] smps protection question

2015-09-15 Thread JohnK
I agree with Greg that loops are troublesome; I would like a bit more info from 
Bob actually.  [Drawings, photos, (off-list if you like) ]. 
What power [watts] is expected of the supply? What amount of capacitive 
smoothing/filtering is on the high voltage?
This LED - it is across the HV?

Star earth/ground is definitely required inside any audio gear.  The power 
supply currents shouldn't flow in any of the signal wires.

"Essentially they get very unhappy if one plugs in an rca line level input 
while the amp is turned on" - 
Did you mean there is audio signal on the RCA cable?
Does the problem occur when the RCA outer only is connected? ie connecting an 
earth/ground to the RCA outer perhaps?
I am not sure what you mean by 'noisy', but noise shouldn't be seen on the LED 
- it is 'too fast' to show; especially as I think you mean the LED flickers  ie 
very low/high volts for an appreciable time?.

I am very interested in whether your audio source is floating [and for that 
matter, if your amplifier is floating].

John K.


  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 12:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] smps protection question


  My first suspicion is a ground loop, and they can be difficult to locate and 
fix. I'm assuming the audio and HV are on separate PC boards, so the solution 
is with cabling and perhaps a filter in the right location. It's possible an 
oscilloscope can help, but be aware that the ground-lead to your scope can add 
to the noise you see; there are several good techniques posted on the web.


  When I built my first computer, the ground loops were SO bad that I could 
hear interference on an AM radio several houses away. It was amazing how easily 
I could trace the wiring inside the walls, because of the noise. After I 
removed the power-supply ground loops, there was no detectable noise outside 
the computer cabinet.

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Re: [neonixie-l] smps protection question

2015-09-15 Thread JohnK
I have a comment that is worthy of mention but may have nothing to do with your 
problem.

The use of RCA connectors can be tricky. The earth/ground makes after the 
signal connection. That means there is a possibility of very large common-mode 
voltages.

For instance, consider the usual mains CD player and mains amplifier [or DVD, 
VHS tape etc etc]. Most of the consumer hifi gear is double-insulated [in name 
only most of the time ! ]. Much of this equipment has noise suppression 
capacitors from the mains wires to the chassis resulting in the chassis being 
at a voltage-divided potential reference real earth/ground. Say that the two 
equipments are powered up but not interconnected. And, in the worst case, 
consider that the amplifier already has something else connected as an input 
that is providing a ground eg a turntable [or that the amplifier actually has a 
ground attached]. The powered up item you are about to connect as an input to 
the amp provides a voltage at highish impedance and at about half the mains 
voltage to the audio input (centre connection). This can damage circuitry.

Many manufacturer's user manuals say Do Not connect with power applied. Most of 
the time there is no damage. BUT we have all heard the intense hum when doing 
so - it is NOT all due to earth/ground loops.


Maybe you have a multi-potential problem. OR maybe it is due to the overdrive 
of the audio circuit during the connection being made. 

More details of actual circuit needed. Look for things that you can rationalise 
eg earthing/grounding and connector styles. [By this I mean - can you add 
earthing/grounding so that all commons that can be at earth potential ARE at 
that potential; AND does it happen if you make the RCA connection and then 
apply the audio by raising the level suddenly?

If you know what I am getting at you will be able to dismiss the suggestion 
outright or try an idea based on it. IF you do not know what I mean by the 
double-insulated problem or by common-mode voltages then please ask more or 
read more before tinkering - you can inadvertantly make it worse if you don't 
correctly analyse the situation. 

John K
Australia
[PS  re the doubleinsulation specs; have a close look next time you are inside 
gear. I had to add a remote control function to a modern turntable - it was the 
lightweight version and the chassis was plastic and not metal. The inetrnal 
wiring loom was the same production item and had a screw connecting an earth 
lug to the plastic in the same place that the cast metal chassis had. Before 
you ask - It was not a conductive nor dissipative plastic nor had buried mesh.
The tone arm and other metal things still protruded externally and were not 
separately earthed. The 230V mains still arrived on a PCB that held fuses etc - 
all open to the touch internally (not even cardboard covers). There was no 
double barrier - for instance the shield wire for the tone arm if not soldered 
or a piece of solder-wire dropped during manufacture could bridge the mains to 
the exposed metal.  ]



- Original Message - 
  From: RHC 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 10:03 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] smps protection question




  I have been playing with a couple of HV smps's I have purchased from alibaba 
with an audio circuit and have found a problem I was wondering if anyone had 
any suggestions for fixing.  Essentially they get very unhappy if one plugs in 
an rca line level input while the amp is turned on.  Here is an example of one 
of them. 


  http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6849909268.html?orderId=68754413558174



  The unit doesn't die outright and still puts out the HV it was set to but it 
gets very noisy. You can see the power led flicker consistently, as soon as you 
put a load on it. 


  Any thoughts on this are appreciated. 


  Bob

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating

2015-03-28 Thread JohnK
I didn't look closely when I mentioned about how to properly use heatsink 
compound.
Was it hot before you added the heatsink?
Was it hotter after?

You pondered why the heatsink might make it hotter:-

Someone mentioned maybe glue conducting. 

I mentioned the glue might insulate the heat.
Overlapping a couple of components, maybe one didn't like being heated by the 
other?

And, what if the added heatsink is acting as an UNWANTED capacitor between 
various pieces of the circuit?  You didn't join the heatsink to earth/gnd or a 
rail, it was floating?   Gnd-ing pretty well removes the coupling effect. [And 
the rail is effectively grounded.]

John K/


  - Original Message - 
  From: Kiran Otter 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 8:53 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating


  Niek,

  Yes, it's showing the seconds in the hour digit, and in the minutes digit.. 
though not as strongly.  If I force it to display the date or number of hours 
on the tubes, I can see whatever is in the most-right tube, faintly in the next 
to left tube.  And I swear I can see the 6 in the seconds tube coming on for 
like 4-5 seconds.  Again, it's all really faint, so I assume it's not really a 
problem.

  Before I swapped the driver chips around, I was getting faint digits in the 
left most tube.  So it does seem to be driver related.  But I think it's OK for 
now.

  Is there a known good source for the driver chips?  Someone on ebay?

  Kiran


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating

2015-03-28 Thread JohnK
Careful with epoxying a heatsink on. A heatconducting paste [dangerous chemical 
usually] OR a very thin layer of heatsink compound and a clip holding the 
heatsink is probably better. How much does the epoxy impede the heat flow?  
[and note I said very thin re the compound?Just enough to fill the tiny voids 
that exist. The usual compounds are heat insulators, but are still better than 
air filling the voids.]  
PS. I know you said the overheating is recent, but I use the opportunity to 
mention this topic.

John k.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kiran Otter 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 2:44 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating


  The voltage from the wallwart (12V, 1A) is 11.8V under load.  The high 
voltage to the tubes is 172.8V.  It's very difficult to get it right at 170V 
when adjusting R26.

  Something else I wanted to mention; the separator tubes (separating hours 
from minutes, minutes from seconds,) one of them is mostly black, and neither 
of them light properly.  I'm wondering if they're the culprit.  I'm going to 
remove them and see if it makes any difference.

  Also, I have the heatsink epoxied to both U1 and M1; maybe it's M1 that's 
getting hot, not U1?  I'll use a infrared temp gun and see if I can distinguish 
which is getting so hot.

  Thank you for the replies!

  Kiran
   

  On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:45:02 AM UTC-4, blkadder wrote:
I was just having a look at the manual for the clock, and was thinking that 
the adjustable trimpot at R26 should also be checked.  Being it is adjustable, 
could it be that it may have failed somehow?  Just a thought.

Ron

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 7:55:48 AM UTC-4, Kiran Otter wrote:
  Hi folks, glad to find this group!

  I've had a Tubehobby clock for several years, the NCV2.1 with the IN-18 
tubes.  In the past Jonas has helped, and I even shipped him the main board for 
him to repair, but he hasn't responded to my last request for help, so I 
thought I would ask here.

  Recently, I started to notice that other digits in the tubes were 
partially lighting up, and eventually the fuse blew.  My assumption was that 
the K155ID1 drivers had started to go, so I ordered six of them off eBay, and 
tried replacing them.. which isn't hard, everything is socketed.   Well it 
didn't help, so I contacted Jonas.  Jonas suggested replacing C6, which I did 
and it appeared to fix the problem.

  Maybe a month later, I started to notice the left most digit was faintly 
showing numbers, and seemed to be influenced by the next to right digit.  So I 
thought perhaps the drivers I got from eBay weren't good, so I swapped them 
around, trying to see if it made any difference.  Unfortunately, I trashed the 
two original driver chips that came with the kit.  So far swapping the drivers 
around among the six I have, hasn't changed anything.. or if it has, the digits 
lighting that shouldn't be have moved from tube to tube.

  Well I let the clock run like this for a week or so, and one day I just 
happened to feel around the voltage regulator U1 (L7805CV).. and it's blazing 
hot. I put a temp probe on it and it's running at 140F in open air, and when I 
built the clock, I epoxied a heatsink to it.  It never ever used to get this 
hot.  In fact the clock has run for years in a closed enclosure with very 
little ventilation.  It just never produced much heat at all.  I swapped both 
driver chips for two others, and it still gets just as hot.

  When the clock shuts off the display at night, the temp drops to just 
above room temperature.

  So my guess is has to be one of two things I replaced; C6, or the driver 
chips.  I think it's the drivers, and I'd like to get a pair from somewhere 
reputable so I can at least rule them out as the problem.  I've seen some that 
appear to be ceramic, instead of plastic cased.. claimed to be 'milspec' but I 
donno if that's BS or what.

  Any help is appreciated!

  Kiran






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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: OT: Do any long-life magic eye tubes exist ?

2015-03-13 Thread JohnK
How about the very miniature display tubes in [old] vid cam eyepieces then?

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 5:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: OT: Do any long-life magic eye tubes exist ?


You MAY be able to obtain a one inch CRT and drive the deflection plates 
with appropriate signals and 'simulate' and eye tube.  Ira.



  Interesting idea, but it would probably make the clock-case too deep to 
accommodate the CRT.
  Even the 6E5 I was hoping to use was pushing the limit.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: The answer is a lemon

2015-03-08 Thread JohnK
I'd scan bits of the books and post, but there is probably more on the web 
anyway. The 30 vert lines pic was 'awful'. And yes, most had lenses.


If anyone wants me to scan that pic, shout.

John k
Australia

[PS Mum let my sister's girlfriend cut a piece of carboard from the rear 
cover for some project they were doing! I recently bought a replacement 
volume.]




- Original Message - 
From: chuck richards chuc...@all2easy.net

To: nixci...@jsdesign.co.uk; neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 12:22 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: The answer is a lemon



I remember my dad telling me about those original old
TV sets from the mid 1920s.  He described the rotating disks
and he did see a display version of it somewhere in Chicago
when he was a young boy.  When he saw it, he said it had
a picture of Felix the cat which was on a rotating turntable
slowly turning around.  He said you had to put your head up to
a hood and peer down at a fairly small image.  Maybe there was a
magnifying lense down there too.

Chuck








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