Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

I also have one of these displays and tried to make it "work", meaning 
display just random elements but it's one of these projects that is just 
lying around. But it looks very cool :)
Yes, they do contain Kr85, I put mine on a gamma spectrometer a few years 
ago. 

On Wednesday 17 April 2024 at 03:02:41 UTC+2 Audrey wrote:

> That's unfortunate to hear. So much engineering history is lost. A friend 
> of mine attempted to contact the grandchild of Burroughs corporation a few 
> years ago and was told that all old records had been destroyed.
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 6:41 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>
>> I recall Nichia was making custom die for us that included multiple 
>> active elements.   We were trying to chromatically match the panaplex 
>> displays.  We mounted those die directly to a pcb.  They were then overlaid 
>> with plastic light shaping and diffusing elements.  Back before glass made 
>> its way into piston aircraft cockpits (thank you Gary Burrell) it was very 
>> important that all of our panel units looked and behaved the same.  We 
>> spent insane amounts of money to make sure the display colors (OK, just one 
>> color - neon) and mechanical control performance matched.  When I left 
>> King, the LED prototype was falling just short of meeting the high 
>> brightness requirement.  The polarizer and antiglare coatings were pretty 
>> lossy.  I don't honestly know if these ever made it into mass production.  
>> The original unit targets were the KX155 & KX165. 
>>
>> For those that knew King Radio, our historical, engineering centric 
>> organization was destroyed in same manner as Boeing.  ( 
>> https://www.amazon.com/Flying-Blind-Tragedy-Fall-Boeing/dp/0385546491 
>> ).  GE disciple, Larry Bossidy took over in 1991.  Bossidy is to 
>> AlliedSignal as Stonecipher is to Boeing.  I had a front row seat as Gary 
>> Burrell was forced out as King's Engineering V.P.   He, along with Min Kao 
>> then formed Garmin.  Both of these men were and are amazing, high integrity 
>> individuals.  Garmin now "owns" the majority of piston aircraft 
>> instrumentation.
>>
>>
>>   
>>
>>   
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:55:15 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>>
>>> Wow. Do you have any more details about these LEDs?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 12:19 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>>>
 I do recall Krypton-85 as being one component of the gas brew.  The 
 KR85 half-life helps explain why we sold so many replacement displays for 
 seven to ten year old units.  As I recall, the brew included seven gases 
 with two of those being radioactive.  The required light dynamic-range of 
 aviation displays is demanding.  They must be readable in blinding 
 sunlight 
 and barely lit at night to avoid night blindness.  The gas mixture played 
 an important role in meeting those requirements.  The details of the 
 displays themselves and the techniques for driving them were figured out 
 long before my time.

 The beginning of the end for the King panaplexes began in the late 
 90's.  We were down to a single supplier for the proprietary gas mixture.  
 If I recall correctly, that supplier was Dale Electronics (contemporarily, 
 Vishay) in Columbus, NE.  At some point they informed us they could not 
 find a carrier to deliver the gas from Columbus, NE to Olathe, KS due to 
 new, onerous regulations for hazardous material transport.  So we, King 
 Radio, sent in-house trucks to pick up the gas cylinders.

 One of my last great (in my head anyway) acts at King was having my 
 crew develop a retrofittable LED replacement module.  It used bespoke, 
 neon 
 hued, Nichia LED's.

 On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:29:36 AM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:

> Indeed my point in mentioning it.
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 6:31 PM n1ist  wrote:
>
>> The Kr85 mark indicates that they have (or rather now have just a 
>> little, since the half life is 10.7 years) Krypton-85 mixed in the gas 
>> to 
>> help with the ionization
>>
>> On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 6:09:42 PM UTC-4 Audrey wrote:
>>
>>> That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and 
>>> was curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>>>
 Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka 
 Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own 
 numeric 
 panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom 
 designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my 
 knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a 
 proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace 
 elements.  
 I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one 
 referenced in 
 this 

Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Audrey]

That's unfortunate to hear. So much engineering history is lost. A friend
of mine attempted to contact the grandchild of Burroughs corporation a few
years ago and was told that all old records had been destroyed.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 6:41 PM Neil QQ  wrote:

> I recall Nichia was making custom die for us that included multiple active
> elements.   We were trying to chromatically match the panaplex displays.
> We mounted those die directly to a pcb.  They were then overlaid with
> plastic light shaping and diffusing elements.  Back before glass made its
> way into piston aircraft cockpits (thank you Gary Burrell) it was very
> important that all of our panel units looked and behaved the same.  We
> spent insane amounts of money to make sure the display colors (OK, just one
> color - neon) and mechanical control performance matched.  When I left
> King, the LED prototype was falling just short of meeting the high
> brightness requirement.  The polarizer and antiglare coatings were pretty
> lossy.  I don't honestly know if these ever made it into mass production.
> The original unit targets were the KX155 & KX165.
>
> For those that knew King Radio, our historical, engineering centric
> organization was destroyed in same manner as Boeing.  (
> https://www.amazon.com/Flying-Blind-Tragedy-Fall-Boeing/dp/0385546491 ).
> GE disciple, Larry Bossidy took over in 1991.  Bossidy is to AlliedSignal
> as Stonecipher is to Boeing.  I had a front row seat as Gary Burrell was
> forced out as King's Engineering V.P.   He, along with Min Kao then formed
> Garmin.  Both of these men were and are amazing, high integrity
> individuals.  Garmin now "owns" the majority of piston aircraft
> instrumentation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:55:15 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>
>> Wow. Do you have any more details about these LEDs?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 12:19 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>>
>>> I do recall Krypton-85 as being one component of the gas brew.  The KR85
>>> half-life helps explain why we sold so many replacement displays for seven
>>> to ten year old units.  As I recall, the brew included seven gases with two
>>> of those being radioactive.  The required light dynamic-range of aviation
>>> displays is demanding.  They must be readable in blinding sunlight and
>>> barely lit at night to avoid night blindness.  The gas mixture played an
>>> important role in meeting those requirements.  The details of the displays
>>> themselves and the techniques for driving them were figured out long before
>>> my time.
>>>
>>> The beginning of the end for the King panaplexes began in the late
>>> 90's.  We were down to a single supplier for the proprietary gas mixture.
>>> If I recall correctly, that supplier was Dale Electronics (contemporarily,
>>> Vishay) in Columbus, NE.  At some point they informed us they could not
>>> find a carrier to deliver the gas from Columbus, NE to Olathe, KS due to
>>> new, onerous regulations for hazardous material transport.  So we, King
>>> Radio, sent in-house trucks to pick up the gas cylinders.
>>>
>>> One of my last great (in my head anyway) acts at King was having my crew
>>> develop a retrofittable LED replacement module.  It used bespoke, neon
>>> hued, Nichia LED's.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:29:36 AM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>>>
 Indeed my point in mentioning it.

 On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 6:31 PM n1ist  wrote:

> The Kr85 mark indicates that they have (or rather now have just a
> little, since the half life is 10.7 years) Krypton-85 mixed in the gas to
> help with the ionization
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 6:09:42 PM UTC-4 Audrey wrote:
>
>> That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and
>> was curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>>
>>> Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka
>>> Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own 
>>> numeric
>>> panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom
>>> designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my
>>> knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a
>>> proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace 
>>> elements.
>>> I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced 
>>> in
>>> this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.
>>>
>>> An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left
>>> guidance) horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance
>>> vertically.  By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a 
>>> pilot
>>> to the runway threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR 
>>> navigation
>>> using only the right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In 
>>> the
>>> simplest 

Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Neil QQ]

I recall Nichia was making custom die for us that included multiple active 
elements.   We were trying to chromatically match the panaplex displays.  
We mounted those die directly to a pcb.  They were then overlaid with 
plastic light shaping and diffusing elements.  Back before glass made its 
way into piston aircraft cockpits (thank you Gary Burrell) it was very 
important that all of our panel units looked and behaved the same.  We 
spent insane amounts of money to make sure the display colors (OK, just one 
color - neon) and mechanical control performance matched.  When I left 
King, the LED prototype was falling just short of meeting the high 
brightness requirement.  The polarizer and antiglare coatings were pretty 
lossy.  I don't honestly know if these ever made it into mass production.  
The original unit targets were the KX155 & KX165. 

For those that knew King Radio, our historical, engineering centric 
organization was destroyed in same manner as Boeing.  
( https://www.amazon.com/Flying-Blind-Tragedy-Fall-Boeing/dp/0385546491 ).  
GE disciple, Larry Bossidy took over in 1991.  Bossidy is to AlliedSignal 
as Stonecipher is to Boeing.  I had a front row seat as Gary Burrell was 
forced out as King's Engineering V.P.   He, along with Min Kao then formed 
Garmin.  Both of these men were and are amazing, high integrity 
individuals.  Garmin now "owns" the majority of piston aircraft 
instrumentation.


  

  

On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:55:15 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:

> Wow. Do you have any more details about these LEDs?
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 12:19 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>
>> I do recall Krypton-85 as being one component of the gas brew.  The KR85 
>> half-life helps explain why we sold so many replacement displays for seven 
>> to ten year old units.  As I recall, the brew included seven gases with two 
>> of those being radioactive.  The required light dynamic-range of aviation 
>> displays is demanding.  They must be readable in blinding sunlight and 
>> barely lit at night to avoid night blindness.  The gas mixture played an 
>> important role in meeting those requirements.  The details of the displays 
>> themselves and the techniques for driving them were figured out long before 
>> my time.
>>
>> The beginning of the end for the King panaplexes began in the late 90's.  
>> We were down to a single supplier for the proprietary gas mixture.  If I 
>> recall correctly, that supplier was Dale Electronics (contemporarily, 
>> Vishay) in Columbus, NE.  At some point they informed us they could not 
>> find a carrier to deliver the gas from Columbus, NE to Olathe, KS due to 
>> new, onerous regulations for hazardous material transport.  So we, King 
>> Radio, sent in-house trucks to pick up the gas cylinders.
>>
>> One of my last great (in my head anyway) acts at King was having my crew 
>> develop a retrofittable LED replacement module.  It used bespoke, neon 
>> hued, Nichia LED's.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:29:36 AM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed my point in mentioning it.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 6:31 PM n1ist  wrote:
>>>
 The Kr85 mark indicates that they have (or rather now have just a 
 little, since the half life is 10.7 years) Krypton-85 mixed in the gas to 
 help with the ionization

 On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 6:09:42 PM UTC-4 Audrey wrote:

> That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and was 
> curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>
>> Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka 
>> Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own 
>> numeric 
>> panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom 
>> designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my 
>> knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a 
>> proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace 
>> elements.  
>> I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced 
>> in 
>> this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.
>>
>> An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left 
>> guidance) horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance 
>> vertically.  By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a 
>> pilot 
>> to the runway threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR 
>> navigation 
>> using only the right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In 
>> the 
>> simplest case they would provide guidance to the VOR station and 
>> identify 
>> the cardinal radial direction that was being flown to reach the station. 
>>  
>> When executing a simple form of an instrument landing system (ILS) the 
>> pilot flies, at a particular altitude, along a "to" radial to 

Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Audrey]

Wow. Do you have any more details about these LEDs?

On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 12:19 PM Neil QQ  wrote:

> I do recall Krypton-85 as being one component of the gas brew.  The KR85
> half-life helps explain why we sold so many replacement displays for seven
> to ten year old units.  As I recall, the brew included seven gases with two
> of those being radioactive.  The required light dynamic-range of aviation
> displays is demanding.  They must be readable in blinding sunlight and
> barely lit at night to avoid night blindness.  The gas mixture played an
> important role in meeting those requirements.  The details of the displays
> themselves and the techniques for driving them were figured out long before
> my time.
>
> The beginning of the end for the King panaplexes began in the late 90's.
> We were down to a single supplier for the proprietary gas mixture.  If I
> recall correctly, that supplier was Dale Electronics (contemporarily,
> Vishay) in Columbus, NE.  At some point they informed us they could not
> find a carrier to deliver the gas from Columbus, NE to Olathe, KS due to
> new, onerous regulations for hazardous material transport.  So we, King
> Radio, sent in-house trucks to pick up the gas cylinders.
>
> One of my last great (in my head anyway) acts at King was having my crew
> develop a retrofittable LED replacement module.  It used bespoke, neon
> hued, Nichia LED's.
>
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:29:36 AM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>
>> Indeed my point in mentioning it.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 6:31 PM n1ist  wrote:
>>
>>> The Kr85 mark indicates that they have (or rather now have just a
>>> little, since the half life is 10.7 years) Krypton-85 mixed in the gas to
>>> help with the ionization
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 6:09:42 PM UTC-4 Audrey wrote:
>>>
 That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and was
 curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.

 On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:

> Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka
> Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own numeric
> panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom
> designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my
> knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a
> proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace elements.
> I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced in
> this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.
>
> An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left
> guidance) horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance
> vertically.  By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a pilot
> to the runway threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR navigation
> using only the right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In the
> simplest case they would provide guidance to the VOR station and identify
> the cardinal radial direction that was being flown to reach the station.
> When executing a simple form of an instrument landing system (ILS) the
> pilot flies, at a particular altitude, along a "to" radial to find a
> particular VOR station.  Once directly over the VOR the pilot flies on a
> specified VOR "from" radial until the localizer (right-left) and 
> glideslope
> (up-down) needles move into the active range (no longer parked and
> "flagged" at the display extremes).  From there the pilot "keeps the
> needles centered" until visual runway confirmation is obtained.
>
> On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 11:27:41 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>
>> The seller is the author of this article.
>> https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=3247
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:36 AM Nick Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Never seen or heard about this one before.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY
>>>
>>> Anyone heard of this or have one?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAJD4P-ivW5%3DSwf_3hXWVXdad%3DYzA89swwt%3DP%2BqRK2xEMKJ%2B5Gw%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
> To 

Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Neil QQ]

I do recall Krypton-85 as being one component of the gas brew.  The KR85 
half-life helps explain why we sold so many replacement displays for seven 
to ten year old units.  As I recall, the brew included seven gases with two 
of those being radioactive.  The required light dynamic-range of aviation 
displays is demanding.  They must be readable in blinding sunlight and 
barely lit at night to avoid night blindness.  The gas mixture played an 
important role in meeting those requirements.  The details of the displays 
themselves and the techniques for driving them were figured out long before 
my time.

The beginning of the end for the King panaplexes began in the late 90's.  
We were down to a single supplier for the proprietary gas mixture.  If I 
recall correctly, that supplier was Dale Electronics (contemporarily, 
Vishay) in Columbus, NE.  At some point they informed us they could not 
find a carrier to deliver the gas from Columbus, NE to Olathe, KS due to 
new, onerous regulations for hazardous material transport.  So we, King 
Radio, sent in-house trucks to pick up the gas cylinders.

One of my last great (in my head anyway) acts at King was having my crew 
develop a retrofittable LED replacement module.  It used bespoke, neon 
hued, Nichia LED's.

On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 3:29:36 AM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:

> Indeed my point in mentioning it.
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 6:31 PM n1ist  wrote:
>
>> The Kr85 mark indicates that they have (or rather now have just a little, 
>> since the half life is 10.7 years) Krypton-85 mixed in the gas to help with 
>> the ionization
>>
>> On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 6:09:42 PM UTC-4 Audrey wrote:
>>
>>> That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and was 
>>> curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>>>
 Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka 
 Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own numeric 
 panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom 
 designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my 
 knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a 
 proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace elements. 
  
 I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced in 
 this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.

 An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left guidance) 
 horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance vertically.  
 By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a pilot to the runway 
 threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR navigation using only the 
 right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In the simplest case 
 they would provide guidance to the VOR station and identify the cardinal 
 radial direction that was being flown to reach the station.  When 
 executing 
 a simple form of an instrument landing system (ILS) the pilot flies, at a 
 particular altitude, along a "to" radial to find a particular VOR station. 
  
 Once directly over the VOR the pilot flies on a specified VOR "from" 
 radial 
 until the localizer (right-left) and glideslope (up-down) needles move 
 into 
 the active range (no longer parked and "flagged" at the display extremes). 
  
 From there the pilot "keeps the needles centered" until visual runway 
 confirmation is obtained.

 On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 11:27:41 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:

> The seller is the author of this article.
> https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=3247
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:36 AM Nick Andrews  
> wrote:
>
>> Never seen or heard about this one before.
>>
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY
>>
>> Anyone heard of this or have one?
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAJD4P-ivW5%3DSwf_3hXWVXdad%3DYzA89swwt%3DP%2BqRK2xEMKJ%2B5Gw%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "neonixie-l" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.

>>> To 

Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Audrey]

Indeed my point in mentioning it.

On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 6:31 PM n1ist  wrote:

> The Kr85 mark indicates that they have (or rather now have just a little,
> since the half life is 10.7 years) Krypton-85 mixed in the gas to help with
> the ionization
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 6:09:42 PM UTC-4 Audrey wrote:
>
>> That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and was
>> curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>>
>>> Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka
>>> Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own numeric
>>> panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom
>>> designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my
>>> knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a
>>> proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace elements.
>>> I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced in
>>> this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.
>>>
>>> An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left guidance)
>>> horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance vertically.
>>> By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a pilot to the runway
>>> threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR navigation using only the
>>> right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In the simplest case
>>> they would provide guidance to the VOR station and identify the cardinal
>>> radial direction that was being flown to reach the station.  When executing
>>> a simple form of an instrument landing system (ILS) the pilot flies, at a
>>> particular altitude, along a "to" radial to find a particular VOR station.
>>> Once directly over the VOR the pilot flies on a specified VOR "from" radial
>>> until the localizer (right-left) and glideslope (up-down) needles move into
>>> the active range (no longer parked and "flagged" at the display extremes).
>>> From there the pilot "keeps the needles centered" until visual runway
>>> confirmation is obtained.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 11:27:41 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>>>
 The seller is the author of this article.
 https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=3247

 On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:36 AM Nick Andrews 
 wrote:

> Never seen or heard about this one before.
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY
>
> Anyone heard of this or have one?
>
> --
>
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAJD4P-ivW5%3DSwf_3hXWVXdad%3DYzA89swwt%3DP%2BqRK2xEMKJ%2B5Gw%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>
 --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/42ea136c-7ed5-480f-9c29-2ba40025ac3an%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
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Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[n1ist]

The Kr85 mark indicates that they have (or rather now have just a little, 
since the half life is 10.7 years) Krypton-85 mixed in the gas to help with 
the ionization

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 6:09:42 PM UTC-4 Audrey wrote:

> That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and was 
> curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:
>
>> Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka 
>> Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own numeric 
>> panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom 
>> designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my 
>> knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a 
>> proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace elements.  
>> I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced in 
>> this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.
>>
>> An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left guidance) 
>> horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance vertically.  
>> By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a pilot to the runway 
>> threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR navigation using only the 
>> right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In the simplest case 
>> they would provide guidance to the VOR station and identify the cardinal 
>> radial direction that was being flown to reach the station.  When executing 
>> a simple form of an instrument landing system (ILS) the pilot flies, at a 
>> particular altitude, along a "to" radial to find a particular VOR station.  
>> Once directly over the VOR the pilot flies on a specified VOR "from" radial 
>> until the localizer (right-left) and glideslope (up-down) needles move into 
>> the active range (no longer parked and "flagged" at the display extremes).  
>> From there the pilot "keeps the needles centered" until visual runway 
>> confirmation is obtained.
>>
>> On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 11:27:41 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>>
>>> The seller is the author of this article.
>>> https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=3247
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:36 AM Nick Andrews  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Never seen or heard about this one before.


 https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY

 Anyone heard of this or have one?

 -- 

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 .

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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Audrey]

That's fascinating Neil, I have a few boring Bendix panaplexes and was
curious about their manufacture. I believe they're marked Kr85.

On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 5:47 PM Neil QQ  wrote:

> Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka
> Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own numeric
> panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom
> designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my
> knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a
> proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace elements.
> I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced in
> this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.
>
> An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left guidance)
> horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance vertically.
> By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a pilot to the runway
> threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR navigation using only the
> right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In the simplest case
> they would provide guidance to the VOR station and identify the cardinal
> radial direction that was being flown to reach the station.  When executing
> a simple form of an instrument landing system (ILS) the pilot flies, at a
> particular altitude, along a "to" radial to find a particular VOR station.
> Once directly over the VOR the pilot flies on a specified VOR "from" radial
> until the localizer (right-left) and glideslope (up-down) needles move into
> the active range (no longer parked and "flagged" at the display extremes).
> From there the pilot "keeps the needles centered" until visual runway
> confirmation is obtained.
>
> On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 11:27:41 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:
>
>> The seller is the author of this article.
>> https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=3247
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:36 AM Nick Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Never seen or heard about this one before.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY
>>>
>>> Anyone heard of this or have one?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAJD4P-ivW5%3DSwf_3hXWVXdad%3DYzA89swwt%3DP%2BqRK2xEMKJ%2B5Gw%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Neil QQ]

Until, at least, sometime in the early 2000's 90's King Radio (aka 
Bendix/King) was still selling NAV and COM radios using their own numeric 
panaplex type displays e.g. KX155, KX165.  These displays were custom 
designed and fabricated in-house in Olathe, KS.  To the best of my 
knowledge they were all neon orange monochrome.  The gas used was a 
proprietary witches brew that included several radioactive trace elements.  
I recall seeing a prototype ILS indicator similar to the one referenced in 
this thread.  I don't believe the King display was commercialized.

An ILS display shows deviation from the localizer (right-left guidance) 
horizontally and the glideslope deviation (up-down) guidance vertically.  
By "keeping the needles centered" the ILS will guide a pilot to the runway 
threshold.  Such displays were also used for VOR navigation using only the 
right-left needles (or lit segments in this case).  In the simplest case 
they would provide guidance to the VOR station and identify the cardinal 
radial direction that was being flown to reach the station.  When executing 
a simple form of an instrument landing system (ILS) the pilot flies, at a 
particular altitude, along a "to" radial to find a particular VOR station.  
Once directly over the VOR the pilot flies on a specified VOR "from" radial 
until the localizer (right-left) and glideslope (up-down) needles move into 
the active range (no longer parked and "flagged" at the display extremes).  
>From there the pilot "keeps the needles centered" until visual runway 
confirmation is obtained.

On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 11:27:41 PM UTC-5 Audrey wrote:

> The seller is the author of this article.
> https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=3247
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:36 AM Nick Andrews  wrote:
>
>> Never seen or heard about this one before.
>>
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY
>>
>> Anyone heard of this or have one?
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAJD4P-ivW5%3DSwf_3hXWVXdad%3DYzA89swwt%3DP%2BqRK2xEMKJ%2B5Gw%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Audrey]

The seller is the author of this article.
https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=3247

On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:36 AM Nick Andrews 
wrote:

> Never seen or heard about this one before.
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY
>
> Anyone heard of this or have one?
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Dan Harboe Burer]

I have one,

Don't ask me from where -  no longer recall where I got it. It's hiding
somewhere in my Deep Stash :)

Dan

Den fre. 12. apr. 2024 kl. 17.36 skrev Nick Andrews :

> Never seen or heard about this one before.
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY
>
> Anyone heard of this or have one?
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Large weird round panaplex

[Nick Andrews]

Never seen or heard about this one before.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389569367?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=AkFpft62ST6=2047675=9S4jfnnKS4i_ver=artemis=COPY

Anyone heard of this or have one?

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