Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-19 Thread Dekatron42 
I just remembered that they are used in the Leybold 55952 counter as 
voltage regulators for the Geiger-tube power supply, but I can't remember 
how they glowed even though I think they actually glowed as four distinct 
tubes inside the envelope. I restored one of those counters and passed it 
on to another collector but that was some years ago.

/Martin

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-19 Thread Dekatron42 
I just had a look at the datasheet for the tube and it is shown as all 
voltage regulators are encased in one envelope, not four separate.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_zz1030.html 
& http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/128/z/ZZ1030.pdf

/Martin



On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 13:09:37 UTC+1, Dekatron42 wrote:
>
> As you say it looks like the tips are open, they certainly aren't melted 
> at the tip like the four separate ones.
>
> It would be interesting to see the result if the ZZ1030 was checked with a 
> plasma lamp, that would show if there is neon gas in the envelope or just 
> in each voltage regulator tube.
>
> /Martin
>
> On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 12:49:26 UTC+1, jrehwin wrote:
>>
>>
>> OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each 
>> already sealed.
>>
>>
>> I don't think they're sealed.  I think their tips are open to the main 
>> enclosing envelope.
>>
>> - John
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-19 Thread John Rehwinkel 
> 
> OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each 
> already sealed.

I don't think they're sealed.  I think their tips are open to the main 
enclosing envelope.

- John


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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-19 Thread JohnK 
Ah, but four sets of closely-spaced elements in one envelope? Would it work?  
That is why my first reaction was that they had locally walled off the 
individual pairs but had left them all in one main gas container. I WANTED it 
to be novel like that.

However, the tops are closed - note:- you can't see the walls of tubulation. 
You can see what looks like snip/scissor lines across solid glass.
I think all the bottoms are sealed.
I will attempt to locate my other example, maybe even ask for examples on TCA.


John K
Australia



- Original Message - 
  From: Dekatron42 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?


  I just had a look at the datasheet for the tube and it is shown as all 
voltage regulators are encased in one envelope, not four separate.


  http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_zz1030.html & 
http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/128/z/ZZ1030.pdf


  /Martin




  On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 13:09:37 UTC+1, Dekatron42 wrote:
As you say it looks like the tips are open, they certainly aren't melted at 
the tip like the four separate ones.


It would be interesting to see the result if the ZZ1030 was checked with a 
plasma lamp, that would show if there is neon gas in the envelope or just in 
each voltage regulator tube.


/Martin

On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 12:49:26 UTC+1, jrehwin wrote:


OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each 
already sealed.


  I don't think they're sealed.  I think their tips are open to the main 
enclosing envelope.


  - John





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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-18 Thread Dekatron42 
As you say it looks like the tips are open, they certainly aren't melted at 
the tip like the four separate ones.

It would be interesting to see the result if the ZZ1030 was checked with a 
plasma lamp, that would show if there is neon gas in the envelope or just 
in each voltage regulator tube.

/Martin

On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 12:49:26 UTC+1, jrehwin wrote:
>
>
> OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each 
> already sealed.
>
>
> I don't think they're sealed.  I think their tips are open to the main 
> enclosing envelope.
>
> - John
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-18 Thread JohnK 
Well, when I first got that valve I thought as you do. But have a look at that 
second photo.
And, because of a previous discussion after I sent the valve to Jeremy, we have 
had him look at it closely - he agrees; definitely solid glass at those cut off 
tips.
I have a second one somewhere but it is horribly buried so that isn't an option 
at the moment.

I had really wanted them to be open because I was interested in other 
conduction paths for certain connections if the whole things was gas filled. 
Haven't tried lighting it up with a proximity voltage or microwave.


jk


  - Original Message - 
  From: John Rehwinkel 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?




OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each 
already sealed.


  I don't think they're sealed.  I think their tips are open to the main 
enclosing envelope.


  - John





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RE: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-16 Thread Tidak Ada 
To my knowledge getter is only working to oxidizing gasses as oxygen fluor and 
chlorine and other oxidizing gases. Anyhow the oxidizing properties are 
essential.

All metals are typical reducing elements.

 

Van: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] Namens 
Nick
Verzonden: woensdag 16 maart 2016 11:31
Aan: neonixie-l
Onderwerp: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

 

On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 17:31:44 UTC, Jens Boos wrote:

I don't think it would be counter-productive, see e.g. the XN-1. Neon and argon 
are noble gases and hence they almost don't interact with getter material, as 
far as I know

 

Yup - I can buy that...

 

Nick 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-16 Thread Nick 
On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 17:31:44 UTC, Jens Boos wrote:
>
> I don't think it would be counter-productive, see e.g. the XN-1. Neon and 
> argon are noble gases and hence they almost don't interact with getter 
> material, as far as I know
>

Yup - I can buy that...

Nick 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-16 Thread Instrument Resources of America 
In the specs it states max Volts between any of the internal elements is 
1000V, I wonder if the getter helped to achieve that spec, by removing 
residual oxygen???   Ira.





On 3/15/2016 9:02 PM, Marcin Adamski wrote:
Have no answer, except that if they wanted to have a good vacuum why 
not to use getter. But why do they needed the vacuum envelope at all? 
There is a version of this stabilizer without the envelope. Just four 
tubes packed into a single base: 
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_zz1031.html

Marcin

On 16-Mar-16 14:47, JohnK wrote:

OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each
already sealed.
http://www.tubecollector.org/zz1030.htm
John K

- Original Message -
*From:* Instrument Resources of America 
<mailto:iracosa...@hughes.net>
*To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>

*Sent:* Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:18 AM
    *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

As I mentioned in an earlier post today getters are flashed inside
of 'VACUUM TUBES' to absorb residual 'OXYGEN' after pump down, and
possibly some external R.F. heating of the internal elements to
further degas.  OXYGEN is extremely detrimental to 'hot cathodes',
and 'hot filaments', and will destroy both quite quickly, even in
small quantities.  Ira.





On 3/15/2016 10:23 AM, Nick wrote:

Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be
vaporized, sure. But a getter? They are used to remove any stray
gas molecules given off by the glass or internal structures due to
heat & time.

Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation
prior to backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.

Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:


Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.


Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different
kind of getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the
ones with getters use "pill" getters, often on the back of the
anode, and there's normally no "getter flash" on the glass.

http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg
<http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg>

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread JohnK 
[yes, my link included one of those too. Maybe the "see also" is a little 
buried.]


jk


- Original Message - 
From: "Marcin Adamski" <marcin.r.adam...@gmail.com>

To: <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?


Have no answer, except that if they wanted to have a good vacuum why not 
to use getter. But why do they needed the vacuum envelope at all? There is 
a version of this stabilizer without the envelope. Just four tubes packed 
into a single base: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_zz1031.html

Marcin

On 16-Mar-16 14:47, JohnK wrote:

OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each
already sealed.
http://www.tubecollector.org/zz1030.htm
John K

- Original Message -
*From:* Instrument Resources of America 
<mailto:iracosa...@hughes.net>
*To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>

*Sent:* Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

As I mentioned in an earlier post today getters are flashed inside
of 'VACUUM TUBES' to absorb residual 'OXYGEN' after pump down, and
possibly some external R.F. heating of the internal elements to
further degas.  OXYGEN is extremely detrimental to 'hot cathodes',
and 'hot filaments', and will destroy both quite quickly, even in
small quantities.  Ira.





On 3/15/2016 10:23 AM, Nick wrote:

Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be
vaporized, sure. But a getter? They are used to remove any stray
gas molecules given off by the glass or internal structures due to
heat & time.

Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation
prior to backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.

Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:


Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.


Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different
kind of getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the
ones with getters use "pill" getters, often on the back of the
anode, and there's normally no "getter flash" on the glass.


http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg

<http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg>

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread Marcin Adamski 
Have no answer, except that if they wanted to have a good vacuum why not 
to use getter. But why do they needed the vacuum envelope at all? There 
is a version of this stabilizer without the envelope. Just four tubes 
packed into a single base: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_zz1031.html

Marcin

On 16-Mar-16 14:47, JohnK wrote:

OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each
already sealed.
http://www.tubecollector.org/zz1030.htm
John K

- Original Message -
*From:* Instrument Resources of America <mailto:iracosa...@hughes.net>
*To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com <mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:18 AM
    *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

As I mentioned in an earlier post today getters are flashed inside
of 'VACUUM TUBES' to absorb residual 'OXYGEN' after pump down, and
possibly some external R.F. heating of the internal elements to
further degas.  OXYGEN is extremely detrimental to 'hot cathodes',
and 'hot filaments', and will destroy both quite quickly, even in
small quantities.  Ira.





On 3/15/2016 10:23 AM, Nick wrote:

Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be
vaporized, sure. But a getter? They are used to remove any stray
gas molecules given off by the glass or internal structures due to
heat & time.

Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation
prior to backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.

Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:


Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.


Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different
kind of getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the
ones with getters use "pill" getters, often on the back of the
anode, and there's normally no "getter flash" on the glass.


http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg

<http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg>

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread JohnK 
OK... so why a getter in this one?  All the little NEON tubes are each already 
sealed.
http://www.tubecollector.org/zz1030.htm

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Instrument Resources of America 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?


  As I mentioned in an earlier post today getters are flashed inside of 'VACUUM 
TUBES' to absorb residual 'OXYGEN' after pump down, and possibly some external 
R.F. heating of the internal elements to further degas.  OXYGEN is extremely 
detrimental to 'hot cathodes', and 'hot filaments', and will destroy both quite 
quickly, even in small quantities.  Ira.






  On 3/15/2016 10:23 AM, Nick wrote:

Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be vaporized, sure. 
But a getter? They are used to remove any stray gas molecules given off by the 
glass or internal structures due to heat & time. 


Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be 
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation prior to 
backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.


Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote: 
Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.



  Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different kind of 
getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the ones with getters use 
"pill" getters, often on the back of the anode, and there's normally no "getter 
flash" on the glass.


  
http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg


  - John


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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread Instrument Resources of America 
As I mentioned in an earlier post today getters are flashed inside of 
'VACUUM TUBES' to absorb residual 'OXYGEN' after pump down, and possibly 
some external R.F. heating of the internal elements to further degas.  
OXYGEN is extremely detrimental to 'hot cathodes', and 'hot filaments', 
and will destroy both quite quickly, even in small quantities.  Ira.






On 3/15/2016 10:23 AM, Nick wrote:
Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be vaporized, 
sure. But a getter? They are used to remove any stray gas molecules 
given off by the glass or internal structures due to heat & time.


Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be 
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation prior 
to backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.


Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:


Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.


Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different kind
of getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the ones with
getters use "pill" getters, often on the back of the anode, and
there's normally no "getter flash" on the glass.


http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg



- John

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<>

Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread Instrument Resources of America 
As I understand it, a getter's primary purpose, within a 'VACUUM TUBE' 
is to absorb an remaining 'OXYGEN' from within the envelope. Ira.




On 3/15/2016 10:45 AM, Dekatron42 wrote:
Dekatrons use a getter that is flashed and they contain similar gas 
mixtures compared with Nixies, as I understand it the getter is there 
to absorb impurities from the materials used whereas the mercury is 
there to extend the life of the Nixie as it reduces the sputtering.


/Martin

On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 18:23:42 UTC+1, Nick wrote:

Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be
vaporized, sure. But a getter? They are used to remove any stray
gas molecules given off by the glass or internal structures due to
heat & time.

Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation
prior to backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.

Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:


Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.


Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different
kind of getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the
ones with getters use "pill" getters, often on the back of the
anode, and there's normally no "getter flash" on the glass.


http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg



- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread Dekatron42 
Dekatrons use a getter that is flashed and they contain similar gas 
mixtures compared with Nixies, as I understand it the getter is there to 
absorb impurities from the materials used whereas the mercury is there to 
extend the life of the Nixie as it reduces the sputtering.

/Martin

On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 18:23:42 UTC+1, Nick wrote:
>
> Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be vaporized, sure. 
> But a getter? They are used to remove any stray gas molecules given off by 
> the glass or internal structures due to heat & time.
>
> Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be 
> counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation prior to 
> backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.
>
> Nick
>
>
> On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:
>>
>> Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.
>>
>>
>> Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different kind of 
>> getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the ones with getters use 
>> "pill" getters, often on the back of the anode, and there's normally no 
>> "getter flash" on the glass.
>>
>>
>> http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg
>>
>> - John
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread jb-electronics 
I don't think it would be counter-productive, see e.g. the XN-1. Neon 
and argon are noble gases and hence they almost don't interact with 
getter material, as far as I know.


Jens

On 3/15/2016 1:23 PM, Nick wrote:
Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be vaporized, 
sure. But a getter? They are used to remove any stray gas molecules 
given off by the glass or internal structures due to heat & time.


Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be 
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation prior 
to backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.


Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:


Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.


Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different kind
of getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the ones with
getters use "pill" getters, often on the back of the anode, and
there's normally no "getter flash" on the glass.


http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg



- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-15 Thread Nick 
Why would they have a getter? An Hg pill that needs to be vaporized, sure. 
But a getter? They are used to remove any stray gas molecules given off by 
the glass or internal structures due to heat & time.

Nixies are gassed tubes by definition - a getter would be 
counter-productive - even during baking and initial evacuation prior to 
backfilling, you wouldn't use a getter.

Nick


On Monday, 14 March 2016 01:15:28 UTC, jrehwin wrote:
>
> Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.
>
>
> Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different kind of 
> getter than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the ones with getters use 
> "pill" getters, often on the back of the anode, and there's normally no 
> "getter flash" on the glass.
>
>
> http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg
>
> - John
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Used or NOS?

2016-03-13 Thread John Rehwinkel 
> Nixies are not vacuum tubes - they shouldn't have a getter.

Actually, some nixies do have a getter, but it's a different kind of getter 
than vacuum tubes use, naturally.  Most of the ones with getters use "pill" 
getters, often on the back of the anode, and there's normally no "getter flash" 
on the glass.

http://www.tubeclockdb.com/images/stories/2012/in-18-bd/in-18-nixie-clock-6.jpg 


- John

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