Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[Joumana Mourad]

Thanks Alan

I very much appreciated, 
I am very keen on looking at people's habits and growing creative and  
intellectual needs as all the work I create is based on co-creations..
Happy wednesday everyone
On 7 Oct 2015, at 00:57, Alan Sondheim wrote:

> 
> 
> I think one reason Fb and G+ don't work for in-depth discussions might have 
> to do with distractions - ads, images, announcements, etc.; they're 
> fundamentally lateral, and if one has more than a few friends, there are 
> always notifications coming through. In other words, they're porous. This is 
> truer for Fb (with its arcane privacy settings, etc.); G+ is quieter but more 
> awkward to use. I think, maybe wrongly, that Fb and G+ are more push 
> technologies - one has to weed through these, while email is pull; in 
> addition, email buffering works well, and it's easy to save posts from a 
> particular list - I keep all the empyre material on anguish and video, for 
> example, in a separate readable foldable. Blogs work really well for 
> discussion, but one approaches them differently; at least for me, their 
> structure structures discussion. Blogs have less distraction; Fb and G+ 
> considerably more. Of course for light chatter, there's nothing like Fb - but 
> I find, for example, that Marc's postings some
 times get lost for me. Then there's back-channeling, private posts surrounding 
the email list or Fb etc. discussion - epistemologically, messaging in Fb and 
G+ are inherently different than the newsfeed, while elists and private emails 
share the same phenomenology.
> 
> Blurry and tired at my end, hope this helps? - Alan
> 
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2015, Joumana Mourad wrote:
> 
>> Thank you for this communication as usual it is very inspiringI have few
>> questions..
>> Can anyone share why FB, G+, or any of the discussion platforms did not
>> work?
>> It is great to receive e-mails how do you honor them when time is of an
>> issue?
>> If someone found a discussion platform that worked for them do you mind
>> sharing?
>> Thanks again
>>  
> ___
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> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

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[NetBehaviour] 34

[Alan Sondheim]

34

http://www.alansondheim.org/341.png
http://www.alansondheim.org/34.mp4

..
to know this is my world, to know a world, to cut the edge of a
.
world, to draw, to draw blood:: to draw the edge::
. .
. ..
viol, violate, violation, violence, violin, viola, receptacle,
.. .
chorus, chora: to string, to string along:: to prepare a string,
.. ..
to flay, to cut out, to eliminate, cauterize:: to cut through,
. .. .. .
to split a string, to split a skin, to split skin:: to violate,
. .. .. ..
to play:: to play violin, to play at violence, to stage a play,
.. . . . ..
to split a stage, to play viola:: to play gut, to play skin:: to
.. . . .. .
play on one's nerves, to split nerves, to split skin:: to bow or
.. . . .. ..
bow, to bow a string, to stretch a bow, a string:: to tie the
.. . .. . . .
knot, to tie the borromean, to split the borromean, to cut
.. . .. . .. .
from:: to bow the violin, to bow the viol, to bow the viola, to
. . . . . . .
split the sound, to split the music, to corral, to corral the
. . . . .. .
skin, to split the string, to mobius, to mobius the violin, to
. . . .. .. .
mobius the viola, to split the function:: to reduce the
. . .. .. .
variables, to cauterize the function, to swallow, to bow, to
. .. .. . .
swallow again, to bow again, to violate:: to violate the viol,
. .. .. . ..
to violate the viola, to violate the violin:: to cut the skin,
. .. . .. ..
to cut the back of the skin, to violate the skin, to cut the
. .. ..
skin, to cut it out:: cut it out





. http://www.alansondheim.org/342.png
. http://www.alansondheim.org/343.png
. http://www.alansondheim.org/344.png
. http://www.alansondheim.org/345.png
. http://www.alansondheim.org/346.png
. http://www.alansondheim.org/347.png
. http://www.alansondheim.org/348.png

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[NetBehaviour] An image Search for Two Blurred Crossroads – Google-ized.

[Anthony Stephenson]

Using the images.google.com web address a random collage/mood board was
created for two modified satellite images:

http://goo.gl/l0fkAt

http://goo.gl/iExs4W
-- 

- *Anthony Stephenson*

*http://anthonystephenson.org/* 
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[James Morris]

On 07/10/15 02:46, John Hopkins wrote:
...

there is always a
price to be paid when one does not participate in the dominant social
protocols...


Yep. Non-Facebooker here and don't I know it. Was told by friends to 
(re)join facebook - but I'd rather remain ignorant about what they do 
without me.


And in real life, one must engage in dominant social protocols... Or 
not. I've recentlt been feeling that as I grow older the more socially 
inept I become.


As for netbehaviour, I'm not deep enough into the art these days to 
usually know what you're all on about and I'm not entirely sure why I'm 
still hanging around other than for a bit of fun every once in a while ;-)




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Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[Pall Thayer]

We love you, James. Don't leave us.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 11:00 PM James Morris  wrote:

> On 07/10/15 02:46, John Hopkins wrote:
> ...
> > there is always a
> > price to be paid when one does not participate in the dominant social
> > protocols...
>
> Yep. Non-Facebooker here and don't I know it. Was told by friends to
> (re)join facebook - but I'd rather remain ignorant about what they do
> without me.
>
> And in real life, one must engage in dominant social protocols... Or
> not. I've recentlt been feeling that as I grow older the more socially
> inept I become.
>
> As for netbehaviour, I'm not deep enough into the art these days to
> usually know what you're all on about and I'm not entirely sure why I'm
> still hanging around other than for a bit of fun every once in a while ;-)
>
>
>
> ___
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>
-- 
P Thayer, Artist
http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[Kath O'Donnell]

I hope the email list remains too.

even though email is public (especially when lists are archived), it
'feels' more private, as it's coming directly to my account and I can
choose when/if to read it, or to skip inbox/archive to folder to read (or
not) later. I like the 'push' part of it
I try read as many of the NB emails as I can though don't often reply.
I don't mind trying other systems also, though I do tend to stick to a very
small number of sites/tabs that I regularly read + the random/irregular
ones when surfing.
plus email folders are easier to search if I remember something and want to
find it again. much better than facebook. blogs can be OK for this, but I
have most luck with email.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[John Hopkins]

On 06/Oct/15 05:18, Joumana Mourad wrote:

Can anyone share why FB, G+, or any of the discussion platforms did not
work?


For me, I don't know about other folks, but I refuse to use those other 
platforms that harvest my information. I used to be an early adopter with 
different technologies as I was teaching about techno-social engagement, but I 
bailed completely on FB in 2010 after being on it for a few years,


 So it's email or bulletin boards or posting on my own web space, if that 
doesnt 'work' oh well. ... Obviously the NSA has access to everything that I can 
implement, but at least I can limit the access that commercial interests have to 
my data... And, being outside the FB bubble, one pays a price (like my 
'connection' with my family is quite limited because few of them will send 
emails ever. So, there is always a price to be paid when one does not 
participate in the dominant social protocols...


jh

--
++
Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD
grounded on a granite batholith
twitter: @neoscenes
http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/
++
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[Pall Thayer]

I haven't been following all of this discussion but some of it. John
Hopkins' comment made me want to reply.

It's hard to tell a well-functioning and successful mailing list that
mailing lists aren't "the thing" anymore. But they aren't. Don't get me
wrong, I love Netbehaviour and do so for all of the reasons that it
shouldn't work in the modern net-world. The internet has evolved into this
fleeting-moment thing. Anything that isn't picked up within 30 minutes is
old and abandoned. Obviously, this is not at all conducive to lengthy and
detailed examination or contemplation. It reduces everything to quick,
witty comments that lend little or no meat to the actual issue.

Please, please, please do not change Netbehaviour.

Look at what happened to Rhizome. They made subtle changes to their
platform that caused everyone to abandon it. They tried to claim that it
was facebook rather than their changes that killed the mailing lists but it
was their decision to stop nurturing Rhizome as a community and become an
online "journal" (or whatever you might call it) instead.

Personally, I don't care about facebook and other platforms harvesting my
information and even benefiting from it. It's like Douglas Rushkoff
implied, if you're not a paying customer, you're the product being sold.
Either you use the service and accept that or you don't use the service at
all. You can't use the service AND complain about the service's methods of
financing your use of it. Regardless of any notions of what platforms like
facebook and twitter may have been created for, it's very obvious that
they're not used for meaningful debate or discussion. Try initiating a
meaningful discussion on facebook... I guarantee that it will quickly
dissolve into anecdotes, funny (or not) gifs and other comments that lend
nothing to the original post. That's just what you do on facebook and what
a lot of people appear to want from their online interactions.

Having access to a mailing list that actually promotes and fosters in-depth
discussion of emergent subjects is invaluable and it is why we're all here.
I know that a lot of you are on facebook, we're "friends". But Netbehaviour
is where we come for the "real" stuff.

Best r.
Pall

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 9:46 PM John Hopkins  wrote:

> On 06/Oct/15 05:18, Joumana Mourad wrote:
> > Can anyone share why FB, G+, or any of the discussion platforms did not
> > work?
>
> For me, I don't know about other folks, but I refuse to use those other
> platforms that harvest my information. I used to be an early adopter with
> different technologies as I was teaching about techno-social engagement,
> but I
> bailed completely on FB in 2010 after being on it for a few years,
>
>   So it's email or bulletin boards or posting on my own web space, if that
> doesnt 'work' oh well. ... Obviously the NSA has access to everything that
> I can
> implement, but at least I can limit the access that commercial interests
> have to
> my data... And, being outside the FB bubble, one pays a price (like my
> 'connection' with my family is quite limited because few of them will send
> emails ever. So, there is always a price to be paid when one does not
> participate in the dominant social protocols...
>
> jh
>
> --
> ++
> Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD
> grounded on a granite batholith
> twitter: @neoscenes
> http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/
> ++
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
-- 
P Thayer, Artist
http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[Alan Sondheim]

I think one reason Fb and G+ don't work for in-depth discussions might 
have to do with distractions - ads, images, announcements, etc.; they're 
fundamentally lateral, and if one has more than a few friends, there are 
always notifications coming through. In other words, they're porous. This 
is truer for Fb (with its arcane privacy settings, etc.); G+ is quieter 
but more awkward to use. I think, maybe wrongly, that Fb and G+ are more 
push technologies - one has to weed through these, while email is pull; in 
addition, email buffering works well, and it's easy to save posts from a 
particular list - I keep all the empyre material on anguish and video, for 
example, in a separate readable foldable. Blogs work really well for 
discussion, but one approaches them differently; at least for me, their 
structure structures discussion. Blogs have less distraction; Fb and G+ 
considerably more. Of course for light chatter, there's nothing like Fb - 
but I find, for example, that Marc's postings sometimes get lost for me. 
Then there's back-channeling, private posts surrounding the email list or 
Fb etc. discussion - epistemologically, messaging in Fb and G+ are 
inherently different than the newsfeed, while elists and private emails 
share the same phenomenology.


Blurry and tired at my end, hope this helps? - Alan

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015, Joumana Mourad wrote:


Thank you for this communication as usual it is very inspiringI have few
questions..
Can anyone share why FB, G+, or any of the discussion platforms did not
work?
It is great to receive e-mails how do you honor them when time is of an
issue?
If someone found a discussion platform that worked for them do you mind
sharing?

Thanks again
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Random open source code on Kickstarter

[ruth catlow]

Dear Pall,
Love the lack of lipstick and champagne on this request so much that I 
am now officially an investor in your work.


Tra lah!
:)
R

On 05/10/15 23:04, Pall Thayer wrote:


My Kickstarter project, "Random Open Source Code", has been accepted 
and is now live! My goal: "I will create random smatterings of 
open-source code as works of art."


Please help me spread the word...


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/654679561/random-open-source-code


Thanks,

Pall

--
P Thayer, Artist
http://pallthayer.dyndns.org


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--
Co-founder Co-director
Furtherfield

www.furtherfield.org

+44 (0) 77370 02879
Meeting calendar - http://bit.ly/1NgeLce
Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i

Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, & 
debates

around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997

Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade, 
Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Random open source code on Kickstarter

[Pall Thayer]

Woo hoo. Thanks! To be honest, I was expecting Kickstarter to reject the
project. Was pleasantly surprised when they told me it had been accepted.

best r.
Pall

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 7:48 AM ruth catlow 
wrote:

> Dear Pall,
> Love the lack of lipstick and champagne on this request so much that I am
> now officially an investor in your work.
>
> Tra lah!
> :)
> R
>
>
> On 05/10/15 23:04, Pall Thayer wrote:
>
> My Kickstarter project, "Random Open Source Code", has been accepted and
> is now live! My goal: "I will create random smatterings of open-source code
> as works of art."
>
> Please help me spread the word...
>
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/654679561/random-open-source-code
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pall
> --
> P Thayer, Artist
> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
>
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing 
> listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>
>
> --
> Co-founder Co-director
> Furtherfield
>
> www.furtherfield.org
>
> +44 (0) 77370 02879
> Meeting calendar - http://bit.ly/1NgeLce
> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i
>
> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, &
> debates
> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
>
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
> Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
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-- 
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http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Communication in Online Communities

[Joumana Mourad]

Thank you for this communication as usual it is very inspiringI have
few questions..
Can anyone share why FB, G+, or any of the discussion platforms did not
work?
It is great to receive e-mails how do you honor them when time is of an
issue?
If someone found a discussion platform that worked for them do you mind
sharing?

Thanks again

Netbehaviour has been one of my mainstays for discovering new work, new
artists, new ideas; the urls serve me and I can easily follow through from
them. And I can't imagine having even this discussion, say, on Wordpress or
Fb;-  one of the advantages of email is that it arrives without its own
platform, or with minimalized platforms or with self-designed platforms;
it's as close to discussion we can have if we include, obviously, buffering
and communality (Skype isn't good at either for example). Fb discussions
trail out and disperse as well; G+ was, if I remember correctly, supposed
to be a discussion platform, but again that seemed to collapse, just as
newsgroups did. To bring an antique acronym back for a second, email is
wysiwyg; it's platform independent. I'd say a potentially simple solution
would be to have a Furtherfield studio for open presentations, projects,
etc., running on a separate server. As far as changing the demographics of
the list - that's another problem and an important one, and it seems to me
that people who are teaching in university or say k 9-12 (in the U.S.)
might be able to bring students in; I used to do that with other lists when
I had a position. For myself, I find a kind of skittering underlying the
discussion and I worry about that; philosophy, new media aesthetics, etc.,
are difficult topics, there are a lot of exploratory/explanatory sites out
there, and the value of this list, like empyre, is that it creates a focus;
I take what I learn here and it becomes part of my day in a way that Fb
posts don't, Wired.com doesn't, etc. The commons like the stoa are a place
of discussion and hopefully a kind of quietude that provides the grounds
for discussion - as an example, I learned far more about anguish on the
extended presentations on empyre (when Johannes and I co-moderated a
discussion on absolute terror, ISIS, and performance), than I did on all
the fast-forward and intermittent talk/presentations elsewhere. I was able
to follow through with the buffering, url extensions, and even chat/skype
that came out of it. I'm on Fb, blogs, G+, news, etc. daily, but here I can
contemplate in an entirely different way, one close, in fact, to nature, to
what's left of the natural environment (and there are a number of studies
indicating that such is good for your health, not only mentally, but also
physically) - so I would argue that we keep this core as it is, extend the
demography, as much as possible, and build elsewhere. (As a final note, I
tend to read most of my email in a linux terminal; the advantage is even
less graphics, no advertising, and a kind of textual presentation that
approaches Vygotsky's inner speech. I remember more, think more, etc., but
of course this isn't for everyone and I use gmail, Fb messaging as well.) -
Alan, thanks for a great discussion -

>
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2015, Randall Packer wrote:
>
> I want to express a note of thanks to all those who have been participating
>> in this interesting conversation. I have also adjusted the topic because
>> we
>> abandoned Geert?s interview long ago.
>>
>> I think this is a fascinating and relevant discussion for NetBehaviour
>> and I
>> too hope it will lead to a more focused discussion that could potentially
>> lead to action. But in the meantime, it is an important conversation,
>> because there are many here and elsewhere who are grappling with
>> information
>> flows among online communities: grappling with the conservation of
>> knowledge, the ease of access, open source issues, sharing, collaboration
>> and transparency. Clearly there is no one way of doing this, but I would
>> propose that rather than getting overly fixated here on the list with the
>> technical complexities of specific software and hardware solutions, which
>> is
>> enough to make anyone dizzy, (I agree with Annie this may be better served
>> in a focus group), that here in NetBehaviour there is an opportunity to
>> think broadly about collaborative online spaces that aspire to provide an
>> alternative to the geographical and social limitations of face to face.
>>
>> I don?t think anyone here is suggesting a radical shift away from the ease
>> and access of email, but rather understanding what is possible and what do
>> online communities require to serve their needs. For me, one of the main
>> reasons to be engaged here is to get to know artists from around the
>> world,
>> what they are working on, their ideas, etc. But another important reason
>> is
>> to participate in a shared knowledge base. This was the dream of Vannevar
>> Bush back in the 1940s with his famous essay ?As We May Think,? where he
>> 

[NetBehaviour] Instrument-Builder Residency call

[Jake Harries]

*Instrument-Builder Residency*

The Hugh Davies Project, in collaboration with Access Space, seeks an
instrument-builder to take up a two-week residency in Sheffield in early
2016.

The aim of the residency is to build an instrument, or instruments, in the
style of English experimental musician and instrument-builder Hugh Davies,
whose instruments involved the amplification of repurposed every-day
objects via contact microphones and magnetic pickups. Two of his
instruments—the Shozyg, and the Springboard—are briefly described below
(see Background).

Towards the end of the residency, the resident will deliver a workshop
exploring the instrument-building, amplification, and performance/playing
techniques used. We are also considering the possibility of an on-site
exhibition, in which an instrument or instruments could be displayed.

This residency is being hosted by Access Space, Sheffield
(*http://access-space.org/
*) as part of an Arts and Humanities Research
Council funded project, ‘Hugh Davies: Electronic Music Innovator’, led by
Dr James Mooney (University of Leeds) in partnership with Dr Tim Boon (The
Science Museum, London). Some further information on the project can be
found here: *http://hughdaviesproject.wordpress.com
*.

*Background*

Hugh Davies (1943–2005) was an experimental musician, musicologist, and
composer, who became well-known in avant-garde and improvised music circles
for his unique and often playfully eccentric musical instruments,
self-built using every-day objects and found, re-purposed materials.

One of Davies’s instruments, called the Shozyg (built in 1968), consisted
of three fret-saw blades, a ball-bearing mounted furniture castor, and a
small metal spring, mounted inside the covers of a book. (The book happened
to be an encyclopaedia covering the alphabetic range of topics from SHO to
ZYG—hence the instrument’s name.) These objects were amplified via
*piezo-electric
contact microphones*, such that the tiny vibrations—otherwise practically
inaudible—could be heard via loudspeakers. It was designed to be played
with the fingers, or with the aid of accessories like screwdrivers, small
electric motors, toothpicks, etc. A brief video of Davies playing the
Shozyg can be seen here: *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPT9A0IsGgs
*.

>From 1970 onwards, Davies built a family of a dozen instruments that he
called Springboards. These comprised a number of springs—anything from one
to more than twenty—mounted on wooden blockboard in various different
arrangements, and amplified via *electromagnetic pickups* mounted in holes
chiselled out of the blockboard. On some of the Springboards the springs
were mounted in parallel, rather like the strings on a stringed instrument;
in others they were mounted in a ‘fan’ shape. In some of the later
Springboards, interesting effects were achieved by connecting springs
together in a ‘web’. The Springboards could be plucked, played with
accessories, or ‘bowed’ with a single hair from a violin bow.

Davies built over a hundred instruments in his life time. For some further
discussion of Davies’s instrument-building practice, its background, and
subsequent influence, see:
*https://hughdaviesproject.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/conference-presentation-on-hugh-daviess-self-built-instruments/
*.


*Facilities*

Refab Space is Access Space's DIY Fablab and Hackspace. As well as the
usual bench top workshop facilities including power tools, saws and drills,
Refab Space is also equipped with a 3D printer, precision laser cutter, CNC
router, and digital embroidery machine. The idea is that with just a few
pieces of technology, one can create a huge diversity physical objects made
from a vast number of materials, for an enormous number of different uses.
Designs can be created on a computer, although Davies’s own approach was
rather more lo-fi than that.

Artists using Refab Space are demonstrating how one can stretch and expand
the boundaries of what one can do with these technologies.


*Person Specification*

You will have experience of designing and constructing sound-producing
devices from every-day, found, re-purposed, or otherwise ‘ad hoc’
materials, for use in the performance of experimental, avant-garde, and/or
improvised music. Experience in the use (and perhaps construction) of
piezo-electric contact microphones and electro-magnetic pickups is also
essential.

Prior experience of running workshops with multiple participants, and/or
practically focussed teaching is also essential, as the residency will
involve running a workshop.

A background in electroacoustic music or experimental sound art would be
beneficial, and an open mind as to what kinds of sounds might be considered
‘musical’ is essential; see the video mentioned