Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[Andy Ruhl]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Stephen Borrill
 wrote:
> Have I missed some context here? It is not complex to boot a BIOS-based
> machine from a GPT disk. That's what gpt biosboot is for. I've been using
> even on NetBSD 5 on a 4TB hardware RAID array (backported the changes from
> newer NetBSD to -5).

Yeah, you probably did.

I don't think anyone thinks the functionality doesn't exist.

My concern was that it was hard for me, as a new person to "large"
disks on NetBSD, to understand where to start.

There is conflicting information, or a complete lack of it depending
on where you look.

Michael's reply was exactly what I needed, and as far as I can tell,
that particular information doesn't exist anywhere else in "guide"
form (but please correct me if I'm wrong).

Again, this is in the context of a new person asking "where do I start".

When I searched on NetBSD and large disks, I came up with a page
talking about 137GB as a "large" disk:

https://www.netbsd.org/about/features.html

I can't find anywhere in the guide docs that discuss GPT or UEFI. It's
all over the place if I search but it's generally a little old. The
GPT stuff I found didn't point out that you don't have to manually
create a wedge anymore for instance.

Andy

Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[Stephen Borrill]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017, Michael van Elst wrote:

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 02:42:30PM +0100, Havard Eidnes wrote:

Now, installing a bootable netbsd onto such a disk is something else,
but as a data disk it's even easier than before.


I admit to not knowing how / whether that can be done, and from which
version etc.  Your existing wiki page about "using-large-disks" is
useful; could you perhaps be inspired to write a follow-on about the
above theme?


For BIOS based machines this is complex


Have I missed some context here? It is not complex to boot a BIOS-based 
machine from a GPT disk. That's what gpt biosboot is for. I've been using 
even on NetBSD 5 on a 4TB hardware RAID array (backported the 
changes from newer NetBSD to -5).


--
Stephen

Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[Michael van Elst]

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 02:42:30PM +0100, Havard Eidnes wrote:
> > Now, installing a bootable netbsd onto such a disk is something else,
> > but as a data disk it's even easier than before.
> 
> I admit to not knowing how / whether that can be done, and from which
> version etc.  Your existing wiki page about "using-large-disks" is
> useful; could you perhaps be inspired to write a follow-on about the
> above theme?

For BIOS based machines this is complex, but for UEFI based machines
you may already find

https://wiki.netbsd.org/users/spz/moderndisk/

interesting.


Greetings,
-- 
Michael van Elst
Internet: mlel...@serpens.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[Havard Eidnes]

> Now, installing a bootable netbsd onto such a disk is something else,
> but as a data disk it's even easier than before.

I admit to not knowing how / whether that can be done, and from which
version etc.  Your existing wiki page about "using-large-disks" is
useful; could you perhaps be inspired to write a follow-on about the
above theme?

Best regards,

- Håvard

Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[Andy Ruhl]

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 3:42 AM, Michael van Elst  wrote:
> Use the gpt tool to create a GUUID Partition Table and add a ffs partition
> covering all free space, aligned for 4k physical sectors.
>
> - gpt create wd1
> - gpt add -a 4096 -t ffs -l A_unique_name_for_it wd1
>
> On older NetBSD, add the wedge manually as instructed by gpt, or reboot
> to let autodiscover do it. On newer NetBSD, gpt runs 'dkctl makewedges'
> for you.
>
> Use newfs to format the wedge.
>
> - newfs -O2 NAME=A_unique_name_for_it
>
> Add it to fstab.
>
> - NAME=A_unique_name_for_it /my/mount/path ffs rw,log 1 2
>
> Mount the filesystem
>
> - mount /my/mount/path

That was exactly what I needed, I have the new disk mounted and I'm
copying data to it now.

I'm having lots of problems trying to get this old machine onto newer
hardware, but I'll start a new thread about that.

Thanks!

Andy

Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[Michael van Elst]

acr...@gmail.com (Andy Ruhl) writes:

>When I try to use fdisk to create a partition, it won't let me go
>higher than 2TB.

>I tried just using disklabel as well, and I have the same problem.

That's because MBR and BSD disklabel are limited to 2TB for disks
with a logical block size of 512 bytes.


>I see a Wiki page about creating wedges but it's talking about using
>ccd and raid which I don't want to do.

It probably talks how to create wedges and then how to use these for
ccd and raid because that adds (or added) some obstacles.


>I just want a regular 3TB disk
>with 1 ffsv2 partition.

>Where should I start? I'm not finding "official" documentation (in the
>guide for example).

Use the gpt tool to create a GUUID Partition Table and add a ffs partition
covering all free space, aligned for 4k physical sectors.

- gpt create wd1
- gpt add -a 4096 -t ffs -l A_unique_name_for_it wd1

On older NetBSD, add the wedge manually as instructed by gpt, or reboot
to let autodiscover do it. On newer NetBSD, gpt runs 'dkctl makewedges'
for you.

Use newfs to format the wedge.

- newfs -O2 NAME=A_unique_name_for_it

Add it to fstab.

- NAME=A_unique_name_for_it /my/mount/path ffs rw,log 1 2

Mount the filesystem

- mount /my/mount/path


Now, installing a bootable netbsd onto such a disk is something else,
but as a data disk it's even easier than before.

-- 
-- 
Michael van Elst
Internet: mlel...@serpens.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[gary]

   You want a GPT: man gpt. I also found an example at
https://wiki.netbsd.org/users/mlelstv/using-large-disks/#index4h1 .
Those should be enough to get you started. Good luck...

   Gary Duzan


=> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 6:15 AM, Jonathan A. Kollasch
=>  wrote:
=>> On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 05:56:07AM -0700, Andy Ruhl wrote:
=>> It's not uncommon for newer USB drives to present themselves with 4KiB
=>> logical sectors, despite the fact that the disks within are actually
=>> 4KiB physical sectors with 512-byte logical sectors.  Some of our tools,
=>> particularly back in the netbsd-6 days, do not deal well with
=>> non-DEV_BSIZE logical sectors.
=>>
=>> You should have little to no issue with internal SATA drives, as most
=>> of them present themselves with 512-byte logical sectors.
=>
=> I now have a NetBSD-8/i386 machine with a 3TB disk:
=>
=> wd1 at atabus1 drive 0
=> wd1: 
=> wd1: drive supports 16-sector PIO transfers, LBA48 addressing
=> wd1: 2794 GB, 5814021 cyl, 16 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 5860533168
=> sectors
=> wd1: drive supports PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6 (Ultra/133)
=> wd1(ahcisata0:1:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6
=> (Ultra/133) (using DMA)
=>
=> When I try to use fdisk to create a partition, it won't let me go
=> higher than 2TB.
=>
=> I tried just using disklabel as well, and I have the same problem.
=>
=> I see a Wiki page about creating wedges but it's talking about using
=> ccd and raid which I don't want to do. I just want a regular 3TB disk
=> with 1 ffsv2 partition.
=>
=> Where should I start? I'm not finding "official" documentation (in the
=> guide for example).
=>
=> Andy
=>

Re: Using a 4TB (Now 3TB) SATA disk with i386?

[Andy Ruhl]

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 6:15 AM, Jonathan A. Kollasch
 wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 05:56:07AM -0700, Andy Ruhl wrote:
> It's not uncommon for newer USB drives to present themselves with 4KiB
> logical sectors, despite the fact that the disks within are actually
> 4KiB physical sectors with 512-byte logical sectors.  Some of our tools,
> particularly back in the netbsd-6 days, do not deal well with
> non-DEV_BSIZE logical sectors.
>
> You should have little to no issue with internal SATA drives, as most
> of them present themselves with 512-byte logical sectors.

I now have a NetBSD-8/i386 machine with a 3TB disk:

wd1 at atabus1 drive 0
wd1: 
wd1: drive supports 16-sector PIO transfers, LBA48 addressing
wd1: 2794 GB, 5814021 cyl, 16 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 5860533168 sectors
wd1: drive supports PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6 (Ultra/133)
wd1(ahcisata0:1:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6
(Ultra/133) (using DMA)

When I try to use fdisk to create a partition, it won't let me go
higher than 2TB.

I tried just using disklabel as well, and I have the same problem.

I see a Wiki page about creating wedges but it's talking about using
ccd and raid which I don't want to do. I just want a regular 3TB disk
with 1 ffsv2 partition.

Where should I start? I'm not finding "official" documentation (in the
guide for example).

Andy