Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Dave Higton 
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:37:33 +0100 Dave Higton wrote:

> In message 
>   Gavin Wraith  wrote:
> 
> >Twice in succession now I have found that NetSurf #2988, with
> >Javascript disabled, hangs when I try to browse
> >http://kenodoxia.blogspot.com/ .
> >This is on an Rpi 2 with RO 5.23.
> >When I switch on again I check the SD card with
> >DiscKnight. On the first occasion there were 9
> >faults. Mend them with DiscKnight and try again.
> >The same happens, but the second time there were
> >11 faults. After mending the second time I recheck
> >the SD card. SD card OK.
> 
> 2988 has huge amounts of logging enabled.  Get 2992 - that works
> with the URL above.
> 
> You probably broke NS while it was in the middle of writing the
> log file.  Generating the log file takes ages - you think it's
> crashed, but it's just very busy.

There's another point worth making here.  If you think NS has
crashed, use Alt-Break.  Note: NEVER use Ctrl-Break, various
RISC OS luminaries class it as Evil and say it Breaks Discs.

I used Alt-Break on 2988 early yesterday evening because I
also thought it had crashed.  My disc is fine.

Some of the NS builds recently have had detailed logging
enabled by accident (one of the developers committed a
change that he didn't intend to), and I can see that it
might happen again, so please be aware of what to do if
it should happen again: Alt-Break.

FWIW I've used lots of CI builds of NS, and I've never
had one that failed to respond correctly to Alt-Break.

Dave


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Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Gavin Wraith 
In message <35e4e54c747.0d53d...@davehigton.me.uk>
  Dave Higton  wrote:


>There's another point worth making here.  If you think NS has
>crashed, use Alt-Break.  Note: NEVER use Ctrl-Break, various
>RISC OS luminaries class it as Evil and say it Breaks Discs.

Thanks very much for this.
--
Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Dave Higton 
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:30:09 +0100 Tim Hill wrote:

> This is from my obey file Boot:choices.boot.tasks.Tim's
> 
> | next line disables ctrl/break; use reset. see message
> | 
> Fx 247 169 0

Lest the comment in the snippet above should mislead anybody:

Don't use Reset.  Use Alt-Break if multi-tasking stops.

To clarify: Alt-Break will almost certainly give you back
control.  Reset definitely won't.

Dave


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Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Tim Hill 
In article <8ee8e81155.geo...@tiscali..co.uk>, george greenfield
 wrote:
> In message  Gavin Wraith
>    wrote:

> > In message <35e4e54c747.0d53d...@davehigton.me.uk> Dave Higton
> >    wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>There's another point worth making here.  If you think NS has
> >>crashed, use Alt-Break.  Note: NEVER use Ctrl-Break, various RISC OS
> >>luminaries class it as Evil and say it Breaks Discs.
> > 
> > Thanks very much for this. -- Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
> > Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
> > 
> I must confess to having used Ctrl-Break from time to time, when faced
> with a frozen desktop, without evident ill-effects. Is it considered
> worse than powering-off at the switch, which is the only other option
> AFAIK?

This is from my obey file Boot:choices.boot.tasks.Tim's

| next line disables ctrl/break; use reset. see message
| 
Fx 247 169 0

Good luck finding that message. Sometimes the internet is less than
useless.

-- 
Tim Hill
www.timil.com

web sites * multimedia * training

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread george greenfield 
In message 
  Gavin Wraith  wrote:

> In message <35e4e54c747.0d53d...@davehigton.me.uk>
>   Dave Higton  wrote:
> 
> 
>>There's another point worth making here.  If you think NS has
>>crashed, use Alt-Break.  Note: NEVER use Ctrl-Break, various
>>RISC OS luminaries class it as Evil and say it Breaks Discs.
> 
> Thanks very much for this.
> --
> Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
> Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
> 
I must confess to having used Ctrl-Break from time to time, when faced 
with a frozen desktop, without evident ill-effects. Is it considered 
worse than powering-off at the switch, which is the only other option 
AFAIK?

-- 
George

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Dave Higton 
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:09:27 +0100 George Greenfield wrote:

> I must confess to having used Ctrl-Break from time to time, when faced
> with a frozen desktop, without evident ill-effects. Is it considered
> worse than powering-off at the switch, which is the only other option
> AFAIK?

Probably, although I'm not really qualified to answer.

If the mouse cursor still moves in response to the mouse, the best
bet is Alt-Break.  This is the most relevant suggestion in this
context, i.e. NetSurf, because I don't think I have ever observed
NetSurf kill the desktop to the point where the mouse cursor stops
responding.

It's not quite a direct answer to your question, but I hope it
steers you towards the best thing to do when using NetSurf and
you see the apparently infinite hourglass.  (And I hope it also
steers you away from something that is known to be bad.)

Dave


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Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Rob Kendrick 
On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 04:39:32AM -0800, Dave Higton wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:09:27 +0100 George Greenfield wrote:
> 
> > I must confess to having used Ctrl-Break from time to time, when faced
> > with a frozen desktop, without evident ill-effects. Is it considered
> > worse than powering-off at the switch, which is the only other option
> > AFAIK?
> 
> Probably, although I'm not really qualified to answer.

You can assume the following simplification:

Alt-Break allows you to force a stuck task to call
Wimp_CloseDown, essentially causing it to quit.  Note that this
forced quit isn't clean: any open files will remain so, and any
memory allocated via dynamic areas or the RMA will be leaked.

Ctrl-Break essentially calls OS_Reset, which causes a software
reset that for all but the very most obscure situations is
functionally identical to pressing the hardware reset button.

The danger with Ctrl-Break and the hardware reset button is that
FileCore might be trying to do something at the time (or be
struck trying), leaving the file system in an unclean state,
requiring the use of something like Disknight to fix.

Summary: Always try Alt-Break first (and the a clean shutdown
straight after), and only Ctrl-Break/Hardware reset button as a
last resort.

B.

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Tim Hill 
In article <20151013152414.gb23...@platypus.pepperfish.net>, Rob Kendrick
 wrote:

[Snip]

>   Summary: Always try Alt-Break first (and the a clean shutdown 
> straight after), and only Ctrl-Break/Hardware reset button as a   last
> resort.

The ultimate last resort is to 'cycle the power switch' as sometimes
that's the only way out of the so-called 'pyjamas' screen on Iyonix and
other situations with a Pi.

-- 
Tim Hill
www.timil.com

web sites * multimedia * training

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread Richard Porter 
On 13 Oct 2015 Tim Hill  wrote:

>> Summary: Always try Alt-Break first (and the a clean shutdown
>> straight after), and only Ctrl-Break/Hardware reset button as a last
>> resort.

> The ultimate last resort is to 'cycle the power switch' as sometimes
> that's the only way out of the so-called 'pyjamas' screen on Iyonix and
> other situations with a Pi.

I know what you mean by the pyjamas screen. I've had it on my RiscPC 
but I've always put it down to the Vpod.

-- 
Richard Porterhttp://www.minijem.plus.com/
Skype: minijem2   mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com
I don't want a "user experience" - I just want stuff that works.

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-13 Thread george greenfield 
In message <20151013152414.gb23...@platypus.pepperfish.net>
  Rob Kendrick  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 04:39:32AM -0800, Dave Higton wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:09:27 +0100 George Greenfield wrote:
>> 
>> > I must confess to having used Ctrl-Break from time to time, when faced
>> > with a frozen desktop, without evident ill-effects. Is it considered
>> > worse than powering-off at the switch, which is the only other option
>> > AFAIK?
>> 
>> Probably, although I'm not really qualified to answer.
> 
> You can assume the following simplification:
> 
> Alt-Break allows you to force a stuck task to call
> Wimp_CloseDown, essentially causing it to quit.  Note that this
> forced quit isn't clean: any open files will remain so, and any
> memory allocated via dynamic areas or the RMA will be leaked.
> 
> Ctrl-Break essentially calls OS_Reset, which causes a software
> reset that for all but the very most obscure situations is
> functionally identical to pressing the hardware reset button.
> 
> The danger with Ctrl-Break and the hardware reset button is that
> FileCore might be trying to do something at the time (or be
> struck trying), leaving the file system in an unclean state,
> requiring the use of something like Disknight to fix.
> 
> Summary: Always try Alt-Break first (and the a clean shutdown
> straight after), and only Ctrl-Break/Hardware reset button as a
> last resort.
> 
> B.
> 
Thanks - that's a very clear explanation!

-- 
George

#2988 hanging

2015-10-12 Thread Gavin Wraith 
Twice in succession now I have found that NetSurf #2988, with
Javascript disabled, hangs when I try to browse
http://kenodoxia.blogspot.com/ .
This is on an Rpi 2 with RO 5.23.
When I switch on again I check the SD card with
DiscKnight. On the first occasion there were 9
faults. Mend them with DiscKnight and try again.
The same happens, but the second time there were
11 faults. After mending the second time I recheck
the SD card. SD card OK.

--
Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-12 Thread Brian Howlett 
On 12 Oct, Gavin Wraith  wrote:

> Twice in succession now I have found that NetSurf #2988, with Javascript
> disabled, hangs when I try to browse http://kenodoxia.blogspot.com/.

> This is on an Rpi 2 with RO 5.23.

> When I switch on again I check the SD card with DiscKnight. On the first
> occasion there were 9 faults. Mend them with DiscKnight and try again.

> The same happens, but the second time there were 11 faults. After
> mending the second time I recheck the SD card. SD card OK.

Site works fine here on Iyonix, with RO 5.22 and NS #2992, with JS on 
or off.
-- 
Brian Howlett
--
"A man with a briefcase can steal more money than any man with a gun"
 - Don Henley

Re: #2988 hanging

2015-10-12 Thread Dave Higton 
In message 
  Gavin Wraith  wrote:

>Twice in succession now I have found that NetSurf #2988, with
>Javascript disabled, hangs when I try to browse
>http://kenodoxia.blogspot.com/ .
>This is on an Rpi 2 with RO 5.23.
>When I switch on again I check the SD card with
>DiscKnight. On the first occasion there were 9
>faults. Mend them with DiscKnight and try again.
>The same happens, but the second time there were
>11 faults. After mending the second time I recheck
>the SD card. SD card OK.

2988 has huge amounts of logging enabled.  Get 2992 - that works
with the URL above.

You probably broke NS while it was in the middle of writing the
log file.  Generating the log file takes ages - you think it's
crashed, but it's just very busy.

Dave


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