Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-09 Thread text warez
you completly misunderstood the role of an author. it's a job today, nothing else. freelancer, someone who writes books and tries to sells them to publishers. ghostwriters, those guys behind the president, who's names only 1% of americans might know, those are the authors, functionaries of

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-09 Thread Keith Hart
text warez wrote: you completly misunderstood the role of an author. There is no identification of the person addressed as you, but I will fill in. What interests me is that you think there is only one role of the author and that whoever doesn't share your idea of it has misunderstood. You

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-09 Thread Karl-Erik Tallmo
Keith Hart wrote: text warez wrote: you completly misunderstood the role of an author. There is no identification of the person addressed as you, but I will fill in. Well, not only does that text lack recipient, if there is no such thing as author it even lacks a sender. Neither a you nor

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-08 Thread porculus
Theory is necessary, but practice has a much greater ethical value than theory. It is your actions that determine which side you are really on. Ben btw the stained glass of notre dame were paid by different guild of paris as it seems so gratefull to sponsor zuch nice material for each

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-06 Thread Benjamin Geer
Kermit Snelson wrote: Intellectuals and artists have always relied on patronage, patronage depends on plunder, and plunder depends on deceit and exploitation. Who, after all, paid for Europe's cathedrals? Who paid for Beethoven's sonatas? Who pays for universities today? [...] which side

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-06 Thread Karl-Erik Tallmo
snip It was just an exercise in comparing now and then, here and now. I don't have a particular axe to grind. Since I write quite a lot, I think about what makes heroes of some writers and how their achievement might be grounded in their social practice. Strauusian enough for you, Kermit? Keith

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-06 Thread Michael H Goldhaber
Brian, the point of yours to which I was replying was not opposition to consensus, but rather the implication that to oppose one must have anonymity. That is not to suggest that current society is reasonable, liberal, democratic, desirable, un-opposable or necessarily irreplaceable. Kermit makes

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-06 Thread Keith Hart
Kermit Snelson wrote: But to be honest with ourselves, we must look deep into what intellectualism means. I know that intellectuals are killers, sometimes not just figuratively. I am one myself, after all. But not all forms of thinking or persons that we might deem to be intellectual are

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-06 Thread Brian Holmes
Michael Goldhaber wrote (speaking of far left and right in the US): ...on either side, too readily donning this mantle of persecution and using it as an excuse for anonymity or for covering up one's real intent undermines any possibility of genuine democracy, and must lead to a general and

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-05 Thread Brian Holmes
Keith Hart wrote: I think I was saying two cheers for the liberal enlightenment and what it bequeathed us, if we would acknowledge our inheritance. I am ever amazed and puzzled by Keith's confidence in the liberal enlightenment. I must say I don't share it. Acknowledging that inheritance seems

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-04 Thread Brian Holmes
Keith Hart writes about anonymity: So what's the point for nettimers or wikipedia? I have several in mind, but I prefer for now to ask you, dear reader, what you think it might be. I reckon (a little crudely I guess, but y'all know me by now) that the point will become obvious when someone has

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-04 Thread porculus
If Locke, Voltaire, Diderot, Montesquieu, and D'Alembert were all in the habit of publishing anonymously, why is it their names are so familiar (and attached to their writings,usually) some 250 years later? Was anonymity merely a ploy, with clues provided somehow for true authorship? In the

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-03 Thread Francis Hwang
Well, there's always a tension. Over on the first wiki, c2 (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki), there's no shortage of debate over anonymity vs. attribution. Anonymous contributions can sometimes make people feel it's okay to be contentious impolite. Attributed contributions can make the maintainers

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-03 Thread Michael H Goldhaber
If Locke, Voltaire, Diderot, Montesquieu, and D'Alembert were all in the habit of publishing anonymously, why is it their names are so familiar (and attached to their writings,usually) some 250 years later? Was anonymity merely a ploy, with clues provided somehow for true authorship? In the case

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-03 Thread Keith Hart
If Locke, Voltaire, Diderot, Montesquieu, and D'Alembert were all in the habit of publishing anonymously, why is it their names are so familiar (and attached to their writings,usually) some 250 years later? Was anonymity merely a ploy, with clues provided somehow for true authorship? In the case

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-02 Thread Florian Cramer
- Forwarded message from anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florian Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)] X-UIDL: M`b!9dQ!!Ub!P\C! X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-01 Thread Scott deLahunta
hi florian -- [I noticed that Oliver Gassner has raised some of the same points and included tracing the IP; main difference being that I'm not really a wiki user which points towards the relatively high degree of transparency wikepedia has] I think wikipedia in and of itself raises

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-01 Thread Andreas Broeckmann
dear florian, thanks for forwarding this. i have been wondering about the different notions of 'openness' that are flying around at the moment and the often blind assumption that whatever is open must be good. (it is probably more in analogy to the marxist discussion about 'doppelt freie

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-10-01 Thread Joe Crawford
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Oliver Gassner wrote: So. Before anyone indulges in paranoia they should just check the obvious: Someone writing about JHU every day would rather not want the stuff from the fyi-guy in there. Rightyright? IMO this quick re-edit is proof that the wiki-system (or:

nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-09-30 Thread Florian Cramer
Forwarded, with permission, from my friend tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE. - I think this raises interesting questions about the integrity and politics of open content, collaborative online projects and knowledge repositories. -F - Forwarded message from anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From:

Re: nettime A Puff Piece on Wikipedia (Fwd)

2003-09-30 Thread Oliver Gassner
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:33:53 +0200, Florian Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forwarded, with permission, from my friend tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE. - I think this raises interesting questions about the integrity and politics of open content, collaborative online projects and knowledge