Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-25 Thread dan
Brian, You wrote a long reply that I am not fully copying into this note. I agree that the social change equation has so many moving parts that it is hard to summarize in a way that is simple rather than merely simplistic. Your >This is the real difficulty of social theory. The

Fwd: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-19 Thread Molly Hankwitz
Dear Brian, This is twice now that I have read your posts and you speak of fear. Are people really scared shitless? I have to take, without reducing nettime to a discussion of US presidential race some succor in the youth voters' enthusiasm for the crisply spoken, critical voice of Bernie

Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-19 Thread Brian Holmes
On 03/17/2016 09:14 PM, d...@geer.org wrote: What I see is way, way too much private money looking at way, way too few differentiated ideas. Dan, your thoughts are really interesting and I like the specifics of "the mid-space between investment capital and government programs." It seems to

Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-18 Thread dan
I do *not* want argument on this point to derail the larger and more important issues discussion, but when you say: >To answer your questions, Patrice, for sure, both North America >and the EU are sunk in governmental gridlock, and that is the >essence of the crisis: an inability to

Re: Fwd: Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-15 Thread John Hopkins
On 15/Mar/16 09:07, Felix Stalder wrote: The fact that nobody knows how to put all of these things together into a coherent whole, a new techno-economic paradigm, means that these technologies and their associated potential are still open to interpretation and configurations based on particular

Re: Fwd: Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-15 Thread morlockelloi
The question is, does it matter at all? The degree of mind-engagement is irrelevant if not properly coupled with feet-engagement. In other words, whatever you do with your fingers touching plastic surfaces and your eyes scanning electronic screens, your brain constructing fantastic models

Fwd: Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-15 Thread Felix Stalder
On 2016-03-15 07:42, Brian Holmes wrote: > In the US, the classic sequence of a long downswing is unfolding: > inventions pile up while the economy stagnates, so the inventions > are not brought to market. They pile up: electric cars, vastly more > efficient batteries, driverless cars, digital

Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-15 Thread Brian Holmes
On 03/13/2016 12:39 AM, Patrice Riemens wrote: "here's to that future" indeed, Brian, but I wonder how deeper we must sink before things get better. To answer your questions, Patrice, for sure, both North America and the EU are sunk in governmental gridlock, and that is the essence of the

Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-13 Thread Patrice Riemens
"here's to that future" indeed, Brian, but I wonder how deeper we must sink before things get better. And as far as the 'reprise' (crisis is over) is concerned, the EU commision thinks the same of Europe, and wants to de-re-regulate (!) banking again, securitize private dept (a move framed as

Re: Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance

2016-03-12 Thread Brian Holmes
This is a great article because it identifies a new variety of capitalism and demands a response. But Shoshana Zuboff should take three more steps to give her argument the scope it needs. First, it's false to claim that surveillance capitalism "corrupts the unity of supply and demand that has

Shoshana Zuboff > The Secrets of Surveillance Capitalism

2016-03-11 Thread nettime's_parasite
< http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/the-digital-debate/shoshana-zuboff-secrets-of-surveillance-capitalism-14103616-p2.html > 05.03.2016, 13:23 Uhr The Secrets of Surveillance Capitalism Governmental control is nothing compared to what Google is up to. The c