Re: Fwd: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

On 24/Nov/16 02:50, Keith Hart wrote: including lands of temperate zone new settlement). Its expansion was fuelleded by a demographic explosion, 1830-1930. It was the main centre for imperialism and machine industry; Africa had a share of only 7.5%, hardly any cities and almost no machines --

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

I agree with Javier. Witness the sudden post-election increase of racist violence, even in cities like New York. Here in so-called pluralistic Canada, swatikas are appearing on the streets daily. A synagogue was defaced in Ottawa, of all places. The same can be said for sexism. The offensive

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

I'm sorry to jump in here, but I could not be silent about this. Racism, or its absence, is not a passing thing that a nettime user gets to summarily referee. It doesn't work that way. Trump voters had almost two years to denounce Trump's racism, and that of his most vocal

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory + Badiou

Thanks Molly! Eco's list is very interesting. It might be useful to adapt it to our situation. Alex Foti's expression, "national populism," seems also accurate, especially if we define this nationalism as an immunitary nationalism (even though nationalism is maybe in itself

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

Hello Folks, I highly recommend this article by Nafeez Ahmed. He has mapped the relationships between members of European and American neo nazi groups and how they have infiltrated mainstream politics and placed their people in positions of influence and power.

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

Regarding the debate around the racism of the multiple factions of the right, the comments in this Breitbart article are worth a look. The article itself, not so interesting. What is especially interesting to me here is the assertion by many commenters that *any* assertion of race is a liberal

Fwd: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

I agree with Alex -- the end of liberalism in all its forms is nigh and the West/Security Council will soon be 'fascist', with the possible exception of poor old Blighty which, according to me, is breaking up and its state no longer able to project power inside or outside its territory. But to

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

Steven, others, > In response to... (Snip) > Are the republicans voters racist? I think the vast majority are not > (although that still leaves millions that are). What most republican > voters are is indifferent to racism. If taxes get cut, and it comes with > a dash of racism--OK. If

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

in past posts. From: Molly Hankwitz [mollyhankw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:42 AM To: Kurtz, Steven Cc: nettim...@kein.org Subject: Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory Steven, others, > In response to... (S

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

I think there were two pressing things to consider in the Post-Trump United States. First, we must struggle to see "The State" as something that is fundamentally heterogeneous and multiple. To assume that it will act with one purpose is to purposefully refuse to see that new forms

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

trump has brought neoliberalism to an end - he's a nationalist not a conservative - in my view it will bring the demise of liberalism in all its forms (including those protective of individual rights) across all of what used to be called the west - i mean if le pen prevails in

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

ovember 22, 2016 1:00 AM To: Kurtz, Steven Cc: nettime Subject: Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Kurtz, Steven <sjku...@buffalo.edu> wrote: To my mind, Trump is more of a deranged fiscal conservative with a few populist tendencies that he may or ma

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

Thank you for the link, Iain. I am finally getting to listen to the Scahill interview now. And, apologies, Steve - it was you framing Trump as a fiscal conservative. My bad. I'm glad you entered this thread despite it being somewhat banal or realizing that it's almost difficult to talk or

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory + Badiou

Hi Steven, Concerning fascism - is Trump fascist? - cf. this talk of Badiou, "Reflexion on the recent election": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRnUpVLc31w in which he speaks about a "democratic fascism."� Maybe it's not the best way to define the current situation but, again,

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

In response to Steve's illuminating remarks, Brian wonders about Flynn and Sessions. I strongly recommend (and warn against) this extended interview with Jeremy Scahill on yesterday's Democracy Now! Scahill (Blackwater, Dirty Wars) has been closely following these two - and the

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

Brian - "deranged fiscal conservative" --maybe he's just wanting a really great retirement plan, skirting Trump empire except through dealings with his kids, and enjoying the limelight of the Oval Office...! > On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:00 PM, Brian Holmes > wrote: >

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Kurtz, Steven wrote: To my mind, Trump is more of a deranged fiscal conservative with a few populist tendencies that he may or may not be serious about. I agree with the remarks about the economic "program" but what do you

What is the meaning of Trump's Victory

I tried to resist this thread, but ultimately cannot. Just a few points. Are the republicans voters racist? I think the vast majority are not (although that still leaves millions that are). What most republican voters are is indifferent to racism. If taxes get cut, and it comes with a dash of

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

One way to go forward would be to clearly define a moral compass and do our best to propagate it. After all, Brexit got barely voted yes, Trump got barely voted in (at least in popular vote), the progressive are not a small minority but constitute probably in many countries the

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

From: Michael Gurstein (mailto:gurstein=40gmail.com) Reply: Michael Gurstein (mailto:gurstein=40gmail.com) Date: 21 November 2016 at 14:22:25 To: nettime-l=40kein.org (mailto:nettime-l=40kein.org) Subject: Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory=3F > The emerging explanation for Trump se

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

The emerging explanation for Trump seems be of the misogyny or racism of a significant portion of the US population. That may or may not be true (I rather think that a portion of those voting for Trump were racist/misogynist but by no means all). What is overlooked in all of this discussion

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

dear all, we shouldn't assume that racism is the only force behind the voting, no. but, given that the election was already skewed in the direction of white, southern and midwestern wealthier voters with the undermining of voters' rights (supreme court decison 2013) it is no wonder

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

One of the quirks of this list, which is one reason I've loved it so much for so long (and that's no exaggeration), is its very European style. For many purposes, the US has served as a weird sort of Orient -- not just in the sense of a trope that encompasses an empirically geographical 'over

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory? Platonism

Hi Angela, Just one thought: you wrote that "� I� leave that to� Platonists. I do think that every person who voted for Trump is a racist �" etc.� But Platonism (I mean the way you interpret Platon) precisely implies to say� X "is" Y! It's precisely a way to define someone by

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Felix, >And to argue that all forms of social solidarity that existed in >the post-war period (such as the welfare state, unions, community >churches and so on) where simple white solidarity seems also overly >broad. Polanyi's understanding of social solidarity stretches much, much further back

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Hi > Also, Trump won on ALL white demographics, including affluent, college > educated, and female identifying. I find this a point worth dwelling on for a bit. In an article written by Paul Mason I found this statement: "Donald Trump has won the presidency – not because of the “= white working

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

braudel once said that capitalism makes use of hierarchies but doesn't create them - the slave trade was functional to the launch of global capitalism by creating the atlantic economy, just as the genocide of indios, native americans and native australians was product of european colonization that

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

On 11/14/2016 06:17 PM, Angela Mitropoulos wrote: With all due respect, the myopia in this discussion is breathtaking. If the explanation of declining social solidarity were true, then why was it white people who overwhelmingly voted for Trump? Why isn't fascism's constituency made up of those

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Hello all, thanks for a great discussion in these obscure times. I wonder what the role of Silicon Valley will be in the next years. I don't strictly mean the communicative role of their platforms but rather the possible overall reaction by an industry that is the poster child of globalization

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

On 2016-11-15 01:17, Angela Mitropoulos wrote: >> I think this is precisely it. Neo-liberal policies very deliberately >> > destroyed social solidarity and increased competition andmassive rise >> > exploitation. The effect was a in social inequality, >> > economic insecurity and total lack of

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Hello, Felix, others, i I'm enjoying this thread, too. thanks to all the thinking, feeling people. I wonder if this part of Felix's comments could be fleshed out more: "The battle, however, is extremely uphill. Not just because there will be a lot of damage done over the next couple of years by

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

On 14 November 2016 at 20:26, Felix Stalder wrote: > > Way back in 1944, Karl Polanyi defined both Axis fascism and > > Stalinist communism as self-protective movements of society > > against the damaging forces of capitalist exploitation. The forms > > taken by these

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Following up, an example of how racism is far more widespread than might be visible from outside the states, this was just shared by a friend of mine in San Francisco. This is her account of her own direct experience (she is a middle aged white woman, for context): "On Saturday I witnessed white

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

I agree with Alice and Angela on this as well. Mainstream reporting over here has focused on economic dissatisfaction in the rust belt, and rural voters feeling left out, but it's worth noting that people of color in the rust belt still voted overwhelmingly against Trump, though their economic

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

I absolutely agree with Angela: "a theory of capitalism that is not also a theory of racism and gender (and sexuality) is a very poor theory of capitalism." There's a lot of talk in this thread about how white dissatisfaction in the Midwest comes from a so called real place. As a women of

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

This is an interesting analysis of the transition from neoliberal to whatever, Felix. You take off from Polanyi, but don't actually rely on him so much. As you will see, I think this a good thing. My post will focus more on the double movement hypothesis, Polanyi and Marx, 19th and 20th centuries.

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Great thread. Here are my 5 cents.=20 Trump shows what the new political battlefield in the post-crash era is. Neo= liberalism is bankrupt and so are the Left contestational ideologies of the n= eoliberal era. The field of 'historicity' that is of what defines the future= form of society has

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

keith is mindblowing (razorsharp and bighearted at same time) but i think he misrepresents trump as a neoliberal/neoconservative variant - this is shocking like reagan was to the 70s but has a properly fascistic, not a conservative agenda - i mean no neoliberal ever would propose to deport 3

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

> Way back in 1944, Karl Polanyi defined both Axis fascism and > Stalinist communism as self-protective movements of society > against the damaging forces of capitalist exploitation. The forms > taken by these self-protective movements, he said, could be more > damaging than the problems they

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Dear Frederic, all, You are approaching this as if capitalism and racism are separate, and then asking me which is determinative. I think that's the wrong question. I've argued for a long time, and repeated that argument in the piece I linked to that, briefly put, a theory of

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

> Automation, offshoring and the cynical exploitation of the > most defenceless immigrant workers are expressions of pure > capitalist principles (profit at any cost). Pure capitalism is > self-destructive, unless it is tempered and corrected by a social > democracy that changes some of its basic

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

A lot of theorectical speculation. One of my female students had this experience, the day after Trump was elected. She was walking down the street around 14th street, on the West side in New York. A man approached her and said: “Now I can grab your pussy any time I want.” She is afraid to go

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Brian, re this: The great achievement of the US Democratic Party since 1968, which I don't mean to deny in any way, is to to have made all those groups formerly called "minorities" into crucial components of a voting bloc. That's a starting point. Now let's ditch the financial elites that

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Let me add. Trump's electoral majority, like all Republican electoral majori= ties for years, depended on the southern states' white voters who have never= fully moved past their hatred of integration.=20 Best, Michael Sent from my iPad > On Nov 9, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Michael Goldhaber

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

On 11/09/2016 05:48 PM, Michael Goldhaber wrote: In fact, Hillary won a plurality of the popular vote, with probably a larger margin than Gore in 2000, once the California tally becomes final in a few days (absentee ballots mailed on election day have three days to arrive and still be counted).

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

Brian and others, Now is a time for painful gnashing of teeth, moaning , and beating of chests in despair. All that I can agree with... It may feel fine to come up with the instant analysis you’ve been nurturing, most probably, for quite a while, but it starts off factually wrong. The

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

the white working class and the downwardly mobile middle class have constituted an electoral majority on protectionism and racism - the rust belt states proved crucial - it's huntington's vengeance and hooverism - but the country is evidently nonwhite postpatriarchal - true it was a vote against

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

The lasting legacy of the progressive royalty is displacement of artistic, scientific and generally intellectual prowess by the banality of minority membership(s). Empowering creepdoms of various persuasions *is* the principal tool of identity politics, and we have just encountered its limits.

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

I have just posted this on Facebook. It is not the sort of thing you would expect on nettime, but is meant sincerely, even if I could change my mind about a lot of it pretty quickly. You will learn more about Trump in coming months. He isn't the Mussolini (but with frightening power) that he

Re: What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

So I live in a very blue coastal state. Every couple months I manage to get up into the mountains. And every time I’ve been up there in the past couple years, I’ve passed a large truck in testing camouflage. It’s an autonomous truck, being run around and around and around the mountain to

What is the meaning of Trump's victory?

The shock that now assails the ruling classes is in direct proportion to their blindness. If you were shocked, then you shared in that blindness. Like the Remain camp in the UK, the US Democratic Party was sure of its victory. Twenty years ago under the leadership of Bill Clinton, the Dems had