Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
Dear Margaret and others, I have been following this thread with interest and feel, that despite some very insightful comments, something important is missing. Something that still makes this discussion very abstract and far from the real issues about sex work and consent. This is because we are working from a very reductive definition of what sex work actually is. I believe Dymitri's post on the importance of seeing sex work as labour started a more nuanced discussion but probably did not go far enough, leaving us to discuss the role of consent and violence on the body (and/or mind). There are many kinds of sex work and there are many kinds of sex workers with varied degrees of social status, power and agency: street prostitutes, escorts who work for exploitative agencies, webcam girls, people employed in various kinds of porn industries (from Hollywood to indie), self-employed dominas, educators, and many, many others. Let?s also not forget issues of race and gender and how certain bodies, for example marginalized trans bodies, complicate these distinctions. To lump all these labourers together is problematic because it erases the value that consent has for them and prevents us from finding effective solutions to labour exploitation, something that, as many have remarked, doesn?t only happen in sex work. I agree with Dima that consent may not be a productive starting point to fight capitalist exploitation but I also understand that for many of my friends, who are very passionate about their sex work and about the financial, social and political agency it affords them, to label them all victims is actually offensive. This is where Liad?s comment at Transmediale was coming from. I don?t think she was simply drawing on the legal argument used to legalise sex work. She was stating her own agency in life, not the fact that she was not being raped. She also, often reiterated, that she considered hers a ?normal? job. For some (unfortunately not all), sex work is a choice, an informed one. It is also a job that many really enjoy, for as strange as it may sound. So, the ?wear and tear? of the bodies that so much terrifies some people, if it even takes place, is just part and parcel of their job. Better than a CEO having a stroke at 40, some may say? It is important to recognize that there is non-consensual or less- consensual violence in some sex work. But it is also worth knowing that someone like me has the agency (and luxury) to consent to work in a safe and well paid dungeon over selling her soul to certain kinds of academic institutions, if I decide (or like Mollock said, to refuse to write inane papers). This is important because it acknowledges the autonomy of certain practices, and the autonomy of sex workers to fight for their own rights together with their allies. Many sex workers don't feel more oppressed than all of us and are very engaged in social justice activism. To go back to the issue of precarious labour conditions and capitalist exploitation, I feel it would be helpful to start including such nuances in our discussion both of labour and of consent itself. Someone already pointed out that we can see sex work as another form of affective labour, in the tradition of Italian autonomist feminists. This may help us find overlaps with other forms of exploitation, and shape alliances with other groups fighting for recognition and/or for safer and more equitable working conditions. I would go as far as finding possible points for alliances among sex workers and academics. In many cases, it may be the sex workers whose lives are already freer from exploitation to help others fight for justice. The notion of consent itself may help us expand this inquiry: ideally, consent is not just about a yes or no, but about degrees of freedom to negotiate something, to ask questions that shape informed choices, to understand one?s own boundaries, to say ?stop? or ?I changed my mind? if necessary and, especially, to create safe spaces within which consent can be given and respected. How does consent inform our unpaid daily sex lives? and our labour lives? Sex work is many kinds of real work and we have a long way to go... Be well, Alessandra On 15-Feb-12, at 2:54 AM, Margaret Morse wrote: Dear John, I agree that the mind and the body are flowing and intimately intertwined. I resist the notion that it means that there is no difference at any level and that everything just flows. When I distinguished writing inane academic papers from sex work or prostitution, I was thinking of the effects of daily physical effort that tests the body's endurance; even wealthy athletes are not spared the effects of such abuse. i grew up around people who were laborers; when I attend my highschool reunion, I can tell the laborers by how greatly they have aged compared to those with less arduous lives. It may be hard to erase the effects of poverty and malnutrition from burdensome labor; nonetheless, the corporeal marks
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
Thanks to Alessandra for a far more nuanced and recently informed post. I realize that my responses were from someone with armor. Words like disrespect and stigma in connection with prostitution reflect my experience of the suffering of someone with great dignity and grace whom I adored. My instinct is to defend the rights of sex workers to social legitimacy and choice. I don't consider sex workers helpless victims; they may not need me on offense. I also identify strongly with a different but related issue--ending human trafficking and modern slavery. This is again a matter of choice and autonomy--which may mean something more fluid here, but it is hard for me to imagine how. However, I doubt if armor is the best way of going about discussing these things with others who might be persuaded to engage with these issues where they can make a difference. Best wishes MM On Feb 15, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Alessandra Renzi wrote: Dear Margaret and others, I have been following this thread with interest and feel, that despite some very insightful comments, something important is missing. Something that still makes this discussion very abstract and far from the real issues about sex work and consent. This is because we are working from a very reductive definition of what sex work actually is. I believe Dymitri's post on the importance of seeing sex work as labour started a more nuanced discussion but probably did not go far enough, leaving us to discuss the role of consent and violence on the body (and/or mind). Margaret Morse Professor of Film and Digital Media University of California Santa Cruz memo...@comcast.net mo...@ucsc.edu 1230 Colusa Ave. Berkeley, CA 94707 ph/fax 510 280 5774 Cell 510 316 1865 # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
The main missing topic of sex work is marriage. No other institution promotes as fiercely and mercilessly -- and religiously blesses by god -- the subjugation of women to men for work in sex, house, reproduction, child care, health, education, second job for less pay, name change, financial dependency, social stigma of the unmarried and unchilded, forebearance of adultery, prostitution and disease inheritance, workplace and taxation bias, the list is easily extended and has been by feminists to little avail against male (wife-stroked) conceit as seen here. Focusing on paid sex work has always diverted attention from marital exploitation, even to the extent of persuading women that marriage provides safety from bugaboo prostitution. What goes on inside officially legalized households, dominated by males as if a birthright (and a singular responsibility), with societal affirmation of domestication of women is despicable despite worldwide abuse typically sanctified by male-dominated institutions -- philosophy, theology, language, education, military, government, medical, charitable -- across the gamut of societies in which the physically strong reign by male-privilege inheritance, by hook and crook of male favoritism and perquisites, by physical assault and femicide and by ingrained contempt for the male-flattering weaker sex except for sado-masochism bought and paid for in every case of marriage. Love and marriage go together like horse and carriage. So young women are force-fed from the beginning to dress, to speak, to behave, to attend charm school and college for marriage solicitation, to consume beautification products, to develop an alluring vocabulary and mindset, to pretend men are heroic and brilliant, to dream of princesses and princes, to masturbate in loneliness or with a similarly abandoned neighbor while the stud has to be allowed freedom to fornicate, how else to survive and raise kids (wanted or not, loved or not, her own or not). Fortunately the hatchet, the poison, the fire, the garrot, the cancer, the heart attack awaits. And the nubile youngsters delivery groceries, mowing the lawn, singing the choir, how they offer delicious solace from the intumescent bulls demanding sodomy, prowling for pedophilic targets in all the dominant institutions. At 07:22 PM 2/15/2012 -0500, you wrote: Dear Margaret and others, I have been following this thread with interest and feel, that despite some very insightful comments, something important is missing. Something that still makes this discussion very abstract and far from the real issues about sex work and consent. This is because we are working from a very reductive definition of what sex work actually is. I believe Dymitri's post on the importance of seeing sex work as labour started a more nuanced discussion but probably did not go far enough, leaving us to discuss the role of consent and violence on the body (and/or mind). # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
Margaret, I googled a bit about the Ehrenreich book and I will check it out in more detail. But from my brief scan: I think the impulse of the postwar male to escape the capitalist nuclear family, with its burden of breadwinning, physical domination of the loved ones, and strict conformity, is a smart instinct. Western women had a foothold in autonomy with their war labour, and the roots that feminism laid in the previous 100 years were able to flower. So if men started feeling trapped in an outdated fascist structure, which women were also starting to abandon, and so decided to live out their mid-life crises by abandoning familial responsibility for an impossible fantasy, that's a mixed result. (John's post about marriage as prostitution, especially back then, rings true to me). Not every shake of the tree loosens up ripe fruit, but in this case I'd argue it might have. (Of course, the mid-life male's economic status allowed him to purchase some of this fantasy from women with less options - on the street corner, strip club or magazine rack - but not every male would consider this worth doing) I don't have any illusion that Playboy was all good for everyone, but I think the conservative side of the sexual revolution was really disruptive, and a lot of progress continues to be made as a result. Playboy has consistently sided with free speech and sexual freedom of all kinds. Their solid core is founded on capitalist patriarchy, but it just means that liberal aspects of their propaganda have been injected right into the heart of conservatism. Both the wildly-libertarian right and the socially-liberal / fiscally-conservative centre-right can (with their lowered gender/class consciousness) enjoy the sexual exploitation of women, in plain defiance of the Moral Majority, who in matters like this sound dangerously close to radical feminism, at least to those barely listening to drive-time radio. The rise of pseudo-feminist outposts like Suicide Girls serve to further confuse the issue. Does a user-generated network that pays women to undress to their personal comfort level mean an increase in sexual freedom and feminine autonomy, or less? I think it's less, because women's roles are once again reduced to the object, and the real power lies with the middlemen, as always. But it's also reflected in the rise of Burlesque as a locus of pseudo-empowerment, with loud salutes to the women of the frontier (seen as liberated by the wild lawlessness of the Klondike or or the Wild West). It's all in stark contrast to the opposite pseudo-feminism of Sarah Palin or Barbara Bachman, who might be seen as better female role models because of their real political power, but whose stern finger-wagging holds little appeal to girls who just want to have fun. I've never understood the Marxist view of sexual exploitation, because the means of production of value in sexual exploitation belongs to the exploited themselves. That's a confusing aspect of the whole philosophy that I suppose i should study closer. Most of what I've read on the subject has been philosophical pretzels that I couldn't untangle (i.e. biopolitics). -- * WHERE'S MY ARTICLE, WORLD? http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_Harrison * FLICK's WEBSITE BLOG: http://www.flickharrison.com # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
Morlock, your comment is pithy, but it's a bullshit comparison. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it's true. Access to the body is much more intimate than access to the brain. since when is the brain *not* totally unified w/ the body and vice versa? [despite Descartes is pumping his fist in the air, yeah, keep 'em separate! it keeps ma dream alive] I'm waiting to see consciousness/brain/mind existing without said body in complete continuous connection... Entering the body occurs through any receptive field of the Self, and I'd call it the very definition of intimacy when one is expressing energies that are entering an Other's body *and changing the neurosensory system itself,* for that effect is to change how the Other experiences the world... jh # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
Several replies indicate wide-spread religious attitude towards intellect, a brain-body separation reminiscent of the traditional theories of language before biolinguistics put them out of business. Writing inane papers involves very physical changes in the brain, some more some less permanent. On the tissue level they are comparable to changes in vaginal walls during commercial sex, but vaginal walls recover better than the brain (proof: it is easier to recall inane paper than a particular cock.) Whether gray matter is more or less 'intimate' than nether regions depends on the individual sensitivity and is best left to individual preferences and finances. While I'd personally prefer to be fucked down there, it can't support my lifestyle. Do you actually not understand the difference between selling your physical body and choosing to write inane academic papers? because it sounds good doesn't mean it's true. Access to the body is much more intimate than access to the brain. # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
as my wrists, neck, shoulders, back, and butt remind me, writing (whether inane or not) is a profoundly embodied practice. academics sell their bodies as do day laborers and sex workers. see martha nussbaum's whether from reason or prejudice. which is not to suggest these activities are all the same, but to question what makes selling sex different from other ways we sell ourselves? and then we also have to consider different types of sex work (and indeed different types of sex - must it involve penetration??), and how these finer gradations tend to blur into other types of affective labor and other types of relationships that involve economic exchange. -c # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
economical needs continue to force people to sell their body out of despair and not out of consent. This expresses imo the issue at stake: the lack of a fundamental critic regarding the economics involved in 'sex workers', for defining the 'need' to sell once bodily 'labour' out of despair is examplary for a eco-system based on unilaterally defined master-slave relationships Politics can influence things only within reach of 'commonly' felt 'consent' about socio-cultural related 'exchanges' and by embedding this 'consent' in a hierarchical ststem. Playing thus a dominant master-rol and 'control and lead' in order to subjogate its power-objects i.e. sex-workers/workers/intelectuals/individuals, the same individuals who consent, nolens volens, with their submissive roles So to formulate a fundamental critique , one should take into account the politico-economical sphere in which the 'transactions' accompagning these ' exchanges' are situated Not only the 'consent' about the bodily labour done in exchange for the abstract formulation power disguises itself: money, the translated effect in acquiring a 'desirable' financial equilibrium To built all these into a well organized and extremely functional financio-economical model acceptable for many people will eventually break at that particular border where fysical pain is involved. Justice which translates another objectification of harm done not to only one person but, more importantly, to all persons and maintains forced labour/work, whether fysically or mentallly as a necessity to survive in that politico-economical sphere, will fail ultimately So an intimate and inter-personal exchange where the financial equilibrium is not of primary interest will be preferable and leaves out the consential Andreas Sent from my eXtended BodY On 8 feb. 2012, at 16:21, Jan Wildeboer jan.wildeb...@gmx.de wrote: On 02/08/2012 11:27 AM, Nick wrote: I'm not sure how comfortable I am with switching to discussing the value sex work brings to society. It does seem to be a step up from talk of 'consent,' but it still seems like an odd frame to me. Why do we need a framework deciding whether it's a valid form of work in order to discuss rights and conditions? Because in many places sex work is illegal and thus the sex workers do not get any form of protection. In germany, where sex work is not illegal, it means that sex workers can call the police for protection in case sth goes wrong. They can even take their customers to court in case they refuse to pay. ... # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
And how exactly is selling access to the pussy fundamentally different from selling access to the brain? A precarious intellectual worker may have, out of dispair, to sell access to his brain to do some inane academic papers to further the official ideology, or to do some computer programming to track sheeple behavior. Both pussy and brain would prefer something bigger, and more noble. --- On Thu, 2/9/12, IR3ABF aj...@xs4all.nl wrote: This expresses imo the issue at stake: the lack of a fundamental critic regarding the economics involved in 'sex workers', for defining the 'need' to sell once bodily 'labour' out of despair is examplary for a eco-system based on unilaterally defined master-slave relationships # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
Dear Margaret You are absolutely right in not buying that last sentence It should read: -- So an intimate and inter-personal exchange where the financial equilibrium is not of primary interest will be preferable and leaves out the socially and economically consensual dogmatics and leave the actively interacting 'consentents' in an exclusively autonomous, privately and individually sphere -- Sorry for that a politico-economical system without a 'moral' or 'ethical' ground commodifying 'desires' as marketable goods is one of the more pervers thriving impulses of much of contemporary politico-economical law-giving and is too easily neglected or completely overlooked in the discussion concerning 'sex-workers' as it is more often than not left to 'individual freedom and individual responsibilty', without a 'natural' respect for the human body The annexation of the hitherto semi-illegal practice of prostitution into the realm of modern mercantilism and into mainstream economical 'culture' is just another sign of the continuing ursurpation of the private to the public - state/corporate policed - sphere and is harming the much needed struggle for individual - non governemental regulated - economical freedom and thereby cleverly perverting the 'human rights' of the frequently (ab)used (sex) workers, who 'out of despair' are being legally incorporated into the bigger body of an already traumatized and deeply hurt society. @Morlock The same goes for other precarious workers, they too suffer from the schizophrenic situation in which they have to sell their body/brain to the highest bidder and at the same time have to maintain a self protecting defense system not to cross the border between what is permitted to one's self esteem and being lost and a toy in the hands of traffickers/publishers/dealers/managers not equiped with that scarce sense of 'nobility' Andreas Sent from my eXtended BodY On 10 feb. 2012, at 18:29, Margaret Morse memo...@comcast.net wrote: Your last sentence leaves out the consensual in a way that is over my head. How can one have an exchange, intrinsically and by definition, without consent? # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
When I hear the word sex trade worker I'm reminded of the phrase collateral damage. Cleaning up the language doesn't change the situation. If the word prostitute hurts your feelings - it SHOULD. It's humiliating work. I agree that it's master-slave, and that's what the customer is buying - power over another person. The people who pay for expensive prostitutes - the jet-set clientele - are exactly the class of people that should disappear. I don't know if we should facilitate their master status by legalizing prostitution and encouraging an open market. I mean, really: http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/04/08/jaffers-friends-in-low-places/ This attempt to dignify sex work is well-intentioned and sometimes positive. Bridgette Bardot was hardly a slave, but did she provide a meaningful contribution to society? I certainly enjoy contemplating her red-hot persona, but does this benefit outweigh the gender roles which her work reinforced? Was her work consensual, or were her options more limited than a man's? Other sexy-workers (eg Anna Nicole Smith) have had a harder time surviving their role, of course. Then again, Playboy smashed open doors for women by giving them good paycheques and career paths that threw the barefoot-and-pregnant social order into a tailspin. It also helped undermine conservative support for full-spectrum sexual repression, a development which continues to weaken them overall. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/01/is-the-cbc-paying-for-porn Morlock, your comment is pithy, but it's a bullshit comparison. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it's true. Access to the body is much more intimate than access to the brain. Think about how desperate your economic situation would be before you let someone - a stranger, bad breath, rude manners etc - penetrate your butt with their cock. I don't know what you do for a living, but picture your average client / co-worker / customer and imagine you have to have sex with them. All of them. Now think how hard-up you'd be before wasting the same hour writing a lame paper or article. Hell, you write here all the time - giving strangers access to your brain. There's a reason you aren't, instead, standing in Time's Square holding open your butt cheeks. (Or maybe you are - blerg) Michael Albert has a great experiment - he'd ask janitors how much you'd have to pay them to be a doctor. Would you refuse to be a doctor if they didn't quadruple your wages? How about triple? Double? The same? Most of the ones he asked would happily trade places with a doctor for even the same wage. Meanwhile, ask a doctor how much of a pay cut they'd accept to become a janitor. You'd pretty much have to pay them MORE to be a janitor, because of the social status they'd lose. The economics of labour is bullshit. Labour only has exchange value (as Stephen Leacock said), and exchange value is totally distorted by power and privilege, legal frameworks etc. Legalizing prostitution might lower its exchange value, rather than raise it, as it would for drugs. Maybe there's already research on this. http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/world-press-photo-2012-winners/2012/02/10/gIQA1EJ83Q_gallery.html?hpid=z6#photo=6 -- * WHERE'S MY ARTICLE, WORLD? http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_Harrison * FLICK's WEBSITE BLOG: http://www.flickharrison.com # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
Dear Morlock, Do you actually not understand the difference between selling your physical body and choosing to write inane academic papers? MM On Feb 10, 2012, at 9:34 AM, Morlock Elloi wrote: And how exactly is selling access to the pussy fundamentally different from selling access to the brain? A precarious intellectual worker may have, out of dispair, to sell access to his brain to do some inane academic papers to further the official ideology, or to do some computer programming to track sheeple behavior. Both pussy and brain would prefer something bigger, and more noble. ... # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
We must compassionately consider the plight of the inane and opinionated as not a choice, but as a sad, symptomatic consequence of the capricious capitalist mechanism. All too frequently, surplus idleness is thrust upon those who are ill-prepared to receive the burden. Can you not understand the pain? It reminds me of this tragic tale that was shared with me several years ago by someone who suffered similarly: One day, I was an intellectual worker, and I was free. I could wander around the garden, and watch the telly. The next day, the nice old man who let me live at his home died. I was very sad. Then, some other men, accompanied by a black poodle, came and told me that if I wanted to stay, I had to write a paper about what people on the other side of town were doing. I'd never been out of the house before. My world suddenly felt very uncertain, and I was unhappy. I began to quiver and quake with fear and despair. Tears streamed down my face; the poodle licked them. 'Damn you and your cur!' I screamed, though, truth be told I was comforted by it's thick, silky hair. One of the men took pity on me. He whispered a deal into my ear, and I accepted. Fifteen minutes later, sore, I walked, across a pond, and into the sky. On Feb 10, 2012, at 7:06 PM, Margaret Morse wrote: Dear Morlock, Do you actually not understand the difference between selling your physical body and choosing to write inane academic papers? ... # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale
On 02/08/2012 11:27 AM, Nick wrote: I'm not sure how comfortable I am with switching to discussing the value sex work brings to society. It does seem to be a step up from talk of 'consent,' but it still seems like an odd frame to me. Why do we need a framework deciding whether it's a valid form of work in order to discuss rights and conditions? Because in many places sex work is illegal and thus the sex workers do not get any form of protection. In germany, where sex work is not illegal, it means that sex workers can call the police for protection in case sth goes wrong. They can even take their customers to court in case they refuse to pay. They also have to pay taxes. But they also can join the health insurance system as they have an official employment. These are just a few points to consider when discussing the status of sex workers. Now this doesn't mean that all sex workers in germany do it for the lulz. Far from it. Trafficking still exists and economical needs continue to force people to sell their body out of despair and not out of consent. Jan # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
