Re: FW: VW

2015-09-28 Thread Armin Medosch
 Hi,

   Â well said:

 What VW tells us (and why "motivation" is worth looking at) is that
 when push comes to shove we really really need some structures of
 accountability that are responsive to "our", the public's needs and
 not the shareholders and that multistakeholderism as a system of
 governance is basically giving away the keys to the kingdom.

   which leads me to a slightly different topic, this fascination for
   "civil society" that has become so endemic, especially also with regard
   to the current refugee crisis. While the states are failing to organize
   this migration with some dignity, the heroism of civil society becomes
   fetishized. Although I would not regard myself as a statist, there is
   something suspicious in this construction. This article from Rastko
   Mocnik provides some perspective on the notion of civil socitey from a
   post-Yugoslav position

   
http://www.internationaleonline.org/research/real_democracy/6_the_vagaries_of_the_expression_civil_society_the_yugoslav_alternative

   last not least a short report from a small, unimportant country in the
   center of Europe:yesterday the post-Haider Freedom Party won 30+
   percent of the votes in Upper Austria, an economically strong region
   whose capital is Linz which hosts Ars Electronica. Now guess what, the
   F-Party celebrated its victory in the rooftop bar of Ars Electronica
   Center
   best
   Armin

   Â Â
   Â

 Mike
 -Original Message-
      From: nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org    Â
 [mailto:nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org] On Behalf Of t byfield
 Â  Â  Â Sent: September 27, 2015 12:08 PM
 Â  Â  Â To: nettim...@kein.org
 Â  Â  Â Subject: Re:  VW
 Â  Â  Â On 25 Sep 2015, at 20:59, Michael Gurstein wrote:
 Â  Â  Â > Thanks Ted, very useful.
 Â  Â  Â >
 Â  Â  Â > I guess what I'm curious about is the motivations, individual 
and/or
 Â  Â  Â > corporate thought processes/incentives etc. that underlie the 
initial
 Â  Â  Â > decision to go down this path and then the multitude of 
decisions at
 Â  Â  Â > various levels up and down the organization to continue on this 
path.
 Â  Â  Â <...>
 Â  Â  Â Michael, your line of questions seems to be a high priority for the
 Â  Â  Â media: today's NYT top story is "As Volkswagen Pushed to Be
 No. 1,      Ambitions Fueled a Scandal." Personally, I don't
 think there's been much      innovation in the motivation dept
 since, say, Sophocles, so the      human-interest angle isn't
 very interesting, IMO. If anything, it's the      primary
 mechanism in diverting attention from the real problem, namely,  Â
 Â  how to address malfeasance on this scale. Corporations are
 treated as      'people' when it comes to privatizing profit, but
 when it comes to      liabilities they're become treated as
 amorphous, networky constructs,      and punishing them becomes
 an exercise in trying to catch smoke with      your hands.
 Imagine for a moment that by some improbable chain of events    Â
 VW ended up facing a 'corporate death penalty,' there remain all
 kinds      of questions about what restrictions would be imposed
 on the most      culpable officers, how its assets would be
 disposed of, and what would      happen to its intellect
  ual property. (It'd be funny if the the VW logo      was
 banned, eh? I'm not suggesting anything like that could actuallyÂ
 Â  Â  happen, of course.) The peculiar details of this scandal could
 spark a      systemic crisis of a different kind, one that makes
 evading guilt more      difficult. The 'too complex for mere
 mortals' line won't work in this
 Â  Â  Â case: VWs have come a long way since the Deutsche
 Arbeitsfront or R.
 Â  Â  Â Crumb-like illustrated manuals about _How to Keep your
 Volkswagen      Alive_, but not so far that people will blindly
 accept that they can't      understand them. Popular
 understanding of negative externalities in      environmentalism
 is decades ahead of its equivalent in finance. And it    Â
 doesn't hurt that Germany, which has done so much to bend the EU to
 its      will, looks like it'll be the lender of last resort.
 Â  Â  Â  <...>

 <...>


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FW: VW

2015-09-27 Thread Michael Gurstein
Ted and all,

Far be it from me to second guess the insight (or well-placed cynicism) of 
Nettimer folks but dare I say that not all folks who should be, are quite as 
perspicacious.

The flavour of the day in global governance circles--think managing the 
Internet (ICANN etc.), the environment, "sustainable development" and on and on 
is what is being called "multistakeholderism" i.e. where governments, the 
private sector, civil society and all get together and "find consensus" 
solutions on to how to manage the world for the rest of us.  

Significant portions of Civil Society have bought into this approach which is 
firmly premised on the notion that somehow the private sector should be 
directly involved in making governance decisions because well, they are so 
public spirited, or that they have the long term interests of everyone at heart 
("they are people too aren't they"), or we can trust them much more than those 
perfidious folks in government, or they are "accountable" to their shareholders 
and wouldn't do anything completely untoward to risk shareholder value etc.etc. 
(you know the drill...

But if VW can and will commit fraud and what is in effect a crime against 
humanity for short term financial (and/or ego) gains then what might one expect 
from lesser lights with perhaps less to lose and who aren't so deeply enmeshed 
in what should have been (and what purportedly was) a deep web (errr network) 
of accountability, responsibility, enforced integrity etc. (as per your 
comments...

What VW tells us (and why "motivation" is worth looking at) is that when push 
comes to shove we really really need some structures of accountability that are 
responsive to "our", the public's needs and not the shareholders and that 
multistakeholderism as a system of governance is basically giving away the keys 
to the kingdom.

Mike 

-Original Message-

 From: nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org  
[mailto:nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org] On Behalf Of t byfield
 Sent: September 27, 2015 12:08 PM
 To: nettim...@kein.org
 Subject: Re:  VW

 On 25 Sep 2015, at 20:59, Michael Gurstein wrote:

 > Thanks Ted, very useful.
 >
 > I guess what I'm curious about is the motivations, individual and/or 
 > corporate thought processes/incentives etc. that underlie the initial 
 > decision to go down this path and then the multitude of decisions at 
 > various levels up and down the organization to continue on this path.
 <...>

 Michael, your line of questions seems to be a high priority for the
 media: today's NYT top story is "As Volkswagen Pushed to Be No. 1,  
Ambitions Fueled a Scandal." Personally, I don't think there's been much  
innovation in the motivation dept since, say, Sophocles, so the  
human-interest angle isn't very interesting, IMO. If anything, it's the  
primary mechanism in diverting attention from the real problem, namely,  
how to address malfeasance on this scale. Corporations are treated as  
'people' when it comes to privatizing profit, but when it comes to  
liabilities they're become treated as amorphous, networky constructs,  and 
punishing them becomes an exercise in trying to catch smoke with  your 
hands. Imagine for a moment that by some improbable chain of events  VW 
ended up facing a 'corporate death penalty,' there remain all kinds  of 
questions about what restrictions would be imposed on the most  culpable 
officers, how its assets would be disposed of, and what would  happen to 
its intellect
 ual property. (It'd be funny if the the VW logo  was banned, eh? I'm not 
suggesting anything like that could actually  happen, of course.) The 
peculiar details of this scandal could spark a  systemic crisis of a 
different kind, one that makes evading guilt more  difficult. The 'too 
complex for mere mortals' line won't work in this
 case: VWs have come a long way since the Deutsche Arbeitsfront or R. 
 Crumb-like illustrated manuals about _How to Keep your Volkswagen  
Alive_, but not so far that people will blindly accept that they can't  
understand them. Popular understanding of negative externalities in  
environmentalism is decades ahead of its equivalent in finance. And it  
doesn't hurt that Germany, which has done so much to bend the EU to its  
will, looks like it'll be the lender of last resort.
  <...>


#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org