Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-17 Thread Tomislav Medak
Dear Brian, thank you for your thoughtful commentary. Related to the crisis of national and international governance, I hold Joseph Masco's pithy formulation to be true: “the crisis-utopia circuit that empowered the high modernist culture of the mid-twentieth century, we now have a

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-16 Thread Brian Holmes
Jean-Noel wrote: "How can we imagine that the cybernetic system will continue to grow or even exist with more than a billion annual climate migrants within 30 years?" I can't imagine it. I see multiple breakdowns ahead at an accelerating pace. The 'natural' reaction of highly developed

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-15 Thread Brian Holmes
Tom, how brilliant to hear from you. I miss all my friends from former Yugoslavia. Really great to have your insights on this. I quite agree with your two points, and the way they go together. Possessive individualism is the anthropological structure created and imposed by capitalism. (For those

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-12 Thread Tomislav Medak
Dear Brian, dear all, an intriguing discussion. I guess some things are in the eye of the beholder. Both Morozov and Ström fail to note at least two aspects of the historical context of the rise of Big Tech and are easily observed from the post-socialist vantage point. Firstly, the expansion of

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-11 Thread Molly Hankwitz
hi thank you...learning so much and trying to understand 'capitoloscene' - one of my favorite points in Berardi's lecture (Sass-Fee lectures) on this time was that 'the problem with cybernetics is that the system feedback loops are still modeled on the Cold War' - this seems so correct...we have

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-11 Thread analoguehorizon
Just came across this - https://shows.acast.com/jacobin-radio/episodes/dig-its-still-capitalism-w-evgeny-morozov On Fri 8 Jul 2022, 03:08 Molly Hankwitz, wrote: > > Hello, Boris, and Brian, > Thank you for all of your writings and reviews. Boris, those descriptions > of how corporations will

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-07 Thread Molly Hankwitz
Hello, Boris, and Brian, Thank you for all of your writings and reviews. Boris, those descriptions of how corporations will fill the gap of the state by providing travel money for women employees seeking abortions...are chillingly correct, and scary and partly what I do really like about Safiya

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-06 Thread Molly Hankwitz
Brian et al, What a great and hopeful last paragraoh, Brian. Perhais, as you say, now that neoliberalism is attacking itself, there will be change…can be a more productive critique if the beast than hipster slants. I will mention that Nobel’s book, which I’ve read very closely, not only

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-06 Thread Brian Holmes
The thing to conclude from this thread is that capitalism is a beast. You hope it's gonna change, and then it just adds new fangs. We all watched this happen despite (or even to some extent, because of) Nineties-era hopes that decentralized networks would translate into a distributed productive

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-06 Thread Jaromil
dear Brian, Felix and nettime readers, coincidentally, let me share some recent news, small but relevant to complete the analysis: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Lennart-Poettering-Out-Red-Hat let me complete with what this magazine (historically pro-systemd and

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-05 Thread Molly Hankwitz
> > hi brian, jaromil, felix, > i am taking felix's lead here to respond to this part of your message...I am not familiar with the writers, but was taken with your review of them, Brian, anyway! Brian wrote: > I am curious if other people see the same problems, and if there are > theorists and

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-04 Thread Felix Stalder
On 03.07.22 18:51, Brian Holmes wrote: I am curious if other people see the same problems, and if there are theorists and practitioners resolving them... Finally, I also got around reading both texts. in my view, Mozorov's analysis is surprisingly weak and inconsistent. I agree, as Brian

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-03 Thread Brian Holmes
This is totally on point, Jaromil. The tech industry has always been able to think cybernetically - it has to, in order to handle interactive networks with millions of users - but what you're pointing out, in a very specific situation, is how it's now able to carry out integrated strategies

Re: Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-07-03 Thread Jaromil
dear Brian, many thanks for this review! I admit would never had the time to read through the articles and less than ever spot the tension you highlight, your dedication makes it possible for many of us to follow interesting debates as this one. I guess we are all familiar with Morozov's

Strom vs Morozov: knockdown punch

2022-06-30 Thread Brian Holmes
I was gratified to find no less than Evgeny Morozov taking down the concept of "technofeudalism" in a recent issue of the New Left Review (1). The reason why is that in my view, most Marxists now totally underestimate - or even seem shockingly ignorant of - the actual operations of corporate