Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-17 Thread Margaret Morse
Dear Flick, Nice of you to follow up on Hearts of Men. I see the era of sexual revolution you find liberating for men--as it probably was--problematic for women who were often left with responsibility for the care, parenting and most of the financial support for the children left behind. It was

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-16 Thread Alessandra Renzi
Dear Margaret and others, I have been following this thread with interest and feel, that despite some very insightful comments, something important is missing. Something that still makes this discussion very abstract and far from the real issues about sex work and consent. This is because we are

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-16 Thread Margaret Morse
Thanks to Alessandra for a far more nuanced and recently informed post. I realize that my responses were from someone with armor. Words like disrespect and stigma in connection with prostitution reflect my experience of the suffering of someone with great dignity and grace whom I adored. My

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-16 Thread John Young
The main missing topic of sex work is marriage. No other institution promotes as fiercely and mercilessly -- and religiously blesses by god -- the subjugation of women to men for work in sex, house, reproduction, child care, health, education, second job for less pay, name change, financial

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-16 Thread Flick Harrison
Margaret, I googled a bit about the Ehrenreich book and I will check it out in more detail. But from my brief scan: I think the impulse of the postwar male to escape the capitalist nuclear family, with its burden of breadwinning, physical domination of the loved ones, and strict conformity,

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-11 Thread John Hopkins
Morlock, your comment is pithy, but it's a bullshit comparison. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it's true. Access to the body is much more intimate than access to the brain. since when is the brain *not* totally unified w/ the body and vice versa? [despite Descartes is pumping his

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
Several replies indicate wide-spread religious attitude towards intellect, a brain-body separation reminiscent of the traditional theories of language before biolinguistics put them out of business. Writing inane papers involves very physical changes in the brain, some more some less

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-11 Thread Margaret Morse
Dear John and Morlock, You both jump immediately to the mind/body connection. Does that mean that whether we think or do something, it is the same and has the same consequences on the body or the mind? are there no distinctions or nuances at any level? Fiction works, for instance, because

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-11 Thread Carl McKinney
as my wrists, neck, shoulders, back, and butt remind me, writing (whether inane or not) is a profoundly embodied practice. academics sell their bodies as do day laborers and sex workers. see martha nussbaum's whether from reason or prejudice. which is not to suggest these activities are all the

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-10 Thread IR3ABF
economical needs continue to force people to sell their body out of despair and not out of consent. This expresses imo the issue at stake: the lack of a fundamental critic regarding the economics involved in 'sex workers', for defining the 'need' to sell once bodily 'labour' out of despair is

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-10 Thread Morlock Elloi
And how exactly is selling access to the pussy fundamentally different from selling access to the brain? A precarious intellectual worker may have, out of dispair, to sell access to his brain to do some inane academic papers to further the official ideology, or to do some computer programming to

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-10 Thread IR3ABF
Dear Margaret You are absolutely right in not buying that last sentence It should read: -- So an intimate and inter-personal exchange where the financial equilibrium is not of primary interest will be preferable and leaves out the socially and economically consensual dogmatics and leave the

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-10 Thread Flick Harrison
When I hear the word sex trade worker I'm reminded of the phrase collateral damage. Cleaning up the language doesn't change the situation. If the word prostitute hurts your feelings - it SHOULD. It's humiliating work. I agree that it's master-slave, and that's what the customer is buying -

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-10 Thread Margaret Morse
Dear Morlock, Do you actually not understand the difference between selling your physical body and choosing to write inane academic papers? MM On Feb 10, 2012, at 9:34 AM, Morlock Elloi wrote: And how exactly is selling access to the pussy fundamentally different from selling access to

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-10 Thread Sam Dwyer
We must compassionately consider the plight of the inane and opinionated as not a choice, but as a sad, symptomatic consequence of the capricious capitalist mechanism. All too frequently, surplus idleness is thrust upon those who are ill-prepared to receive the burden. Can you not understand

Re: nettime Sex Work and Consent at @transmediale

2012-02-08 Thread Jan Wildeboer
On 02/08/2012 11:27 AM, Nick wrote: I'm not sure how comfortable I am with switching to discussing the value sex work brings to society. It does seem to be a step up from talk of 'consent,' but it still seems like an odd frame to me. Why do we need a framework deciding whether it's a valid