Re: Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-25 Thread Thomas Haller via networkmanager-list
On Thu, 2022-03-24 at 10:47 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Am 13.03.22 um 22:18 schrieb Thomas Haller:
> > On Sun, 2022-03-13 at 16:01 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
> > > 
> > > Am 13.03.22 um 12:46 schrieb Thomas Haller:
> > > > On Sat, 2022-03-12 at 21:55 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/NMA4-1.0.typelib
> > > > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so
> > > > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0.0.0
> > > > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libnma-gtk4.pc
> > > > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0
> > > > > ./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.vapi
> > > > > ./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.deps
> > > > > ./usr/share/gir-1.0/NMA4-1.0.gir
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > yes. I think it's fine. is there a problem?
> > > > 
> > > > You cannot load gtk3 and gtk4 in the same application, and
> > > > consequently, you cannot load libnma.so (gtk3) and libnma-gtk4
> > > > together.
> > > > 
> > > > libnma is a GUI library based on GTK. It seems not unreasonable
> > > > that
> > > > the GTK version is part of the library name -- in particular,
> > > > as
> > > > there
> > > > might come GTK5 in the future.
> > > > 
> > > > These are really two different libraries (with very similar API
> > > > and
> > > > the
> > > > same underlying sources).
> > > 
> > > I see the necessity and maybe this is just bike shedding on my
> > > side
> > > but
> > > I'd personally prefer the gtk part being dropped, so the soname
> > > becomes
> > > libnma-4.so.0
> > > And correspondingly libnma-4.pc (libnma4.pc would be fine as
> > > well).
> > > 
> > > Or do we have some prior art where the gtkX string is encoded in
> > > the
> > > library soname?
> > > 
> > > I also find it a bit inconsistent that the gobject instrospection
> > > files
> > > do not have GTK string embedded.
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > 
> > I tend to agree.
> > 
> > but it might be too late for that... even if it was announced as
> > experimental :)
> > 
> > Lubomir, wdyt?
> 
> Could we have some definitive answer if the naming is going to stay?
> I have a request in Debian to enable gtk4 support in libnma but
> before 
> doing that, I'd like to have an answer here first.

hi

it's gonna stay.

Lubomir argued that the name is actually good.

In the meantime there are now also two releases (1.8.34 and 1.8.36). At
this point, it would seem a bad idea to rename -- regardless any
arguments in favor.


best,
Thomas

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Re: Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-24 Thread Michael Biebl

Am 13.03.22 um 22:18 schrieb Thomas Haller:

On Sun, 2022-03-13 at 16:01 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:


Am 13.03.22 um 12:46 schrieb Thomas Haller:

On Sat, 2022-03-12 at 21:55 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:



./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/NMA4-1.0.typelib
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0.0.0
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libnma-gtk4.pc
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0
./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.vapi
./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.deps
./usr/share/gir-1.0/NMA4-1.0.gir



yes. I think it's fine. is there a problem?

You cannot load gtk3 and gtk4 in the same application, and
consequently, you cannot load libnma.so (gtk3) and libnma-gtk4
together.

libnma is a GUI library based on GTK. It seems not unreasonable
that
the GTK version is part of the library name -- in particular, as
there
might come GTK5 in the future.

These are really two different libraries (with very similar API and
the
same underlying sources).


I see the necessity and maybe this is just bike shedding on my side
but
I'd personally prefer the gtk part being dropped, so the soname
becomes
libnma-4.so.0
And correspondingly libnma-4.pc (libnma4.pc would be fine as well).

Or do we have some prior art where the gtkX string is encoded in the
library soname?

I also find it a bit inconsistent that the gobject instrospection
files
do not have GTK string embedded.


Hi,


I tend to agree.

but it might be too late for that... even if it was announced as
experimental :)

Lubomir, wdyt?


Could we have some definitive answer if the naming is going to stay?
I have a request in Debian to enable gtk4 support in libnma but before 
doing that, I'd like to have an answer here first.




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Re: Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-13 Thread Thomas Haller via networkmanager-list
On Sun, 2022-03-13 at 16:01 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
> 
> Am 13.03.22 um 12:46 schrieb Thomas Haller:
> > On Sat, 2022-03-12 at 21:55 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
> 
> > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/NMA4-1.0.typelib
> > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so
> > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0.0.0
> > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libnma-gtk4.pc
> > > ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0
> > > ./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.vapi
> > > ./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.deps
> > > ./usr/share/gir-1.0/NMA4-1.0.gir
> > 
> > 
> > yes. I think it's fine. is there a problem?
> > 
> > You cannot load gtk3 and gtk4 in the same application, and
> > consequently, you cannot load libnma.so (gtk3) and libnma-gtk4
> > together.
> > 
> > libnma is a GUI library based on GTK. It seems not unreasonable
> > that
> > the GTK version is part of the library name -- in particular, as
> > there
> > might come GTK5 in the future.
> > 
> > These are really two different libraries (with very similar API and
> > the
> > same underlying sources).
> 
> I see the necessity and maybe this is just bike shedding on my side
> but 
> I'd personally prefer the gtk part being dropped, so the soname
> becomes 
> libnma-4.so.0
> And correspondingly libnma-4.pc (libnma4.pc would be fine as well).
> 
> Or do we have some prior art where the gtkX string is encoded in the 
> library soname?
> 
> I also find it a bit inconsistent that the gobject instrospection
> files 
> do not have GTK string embedded.

Hi,


I tend to agree.

but it might be too late for that... even if it was announced as
experimental :)

Lubomir, wdyt?


best,
Thomas




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Re: Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-13 Thread Michael Biebl


Am 13.03.22 um 12:46 schrieb Thomas Haller:

On Sat, 2022-03-12 at 21:55 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:



./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/NMA4-1.0.typelib
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0.0.0
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libnma-gtk4.pc
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0
./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.vapi
./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.deps
./usr/share/gir-1.0/NMA4-1.0.gir



yes. I think it's fine. is there a problem?

You cannot load gtk3 and gtk4 in the same application, and
consequently, you cannot load libnma.so (gtk3) and libnma-gtk4
together.

libnma is a GUI library based on GTK. It seems not unreasonable that
the GTK version is part of the library name -- in particular, as there
might come GTK5 in the future.

These are really two different libraries (with very similar API and the
same underlying sources).


I see the necessity and maybe this is just bike shedding on my side but 
I'd personally prefer the gtk part being dropped, so the soname becomes 
libnma-4.so.0

And correspondingly libnma-4.pc (libnma4.pc would be fine as well).

Or do we have some prior art where the gtkX string is encoded in the 
library soname?


I also find it a bit inconsistent that the gobject instrospection files 
do not have GTK string embedded.


Regards,
Michael


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Re: Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-13 Thread Thomas Haller via networkmanager-list
On Sat, 2022-03-12 at 21:55 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Am 12.03.22 um 21:47 schrieb Michael Biebl:
> > 
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > there has been a flurry of updates for nm vpn plugins adding
> > support for 
> > GTK4. All of them require a libnma built with GTK4 support which is
> > still marked experimental.
> > 
> > I haven't seen any real follow up commits in libnma dealing with
> > GTK4 
> > issues, so I wonder if the EXPERIMENTAL status is still true or if
> > it's 
> > safe to enable support for it (say in the Debian package).
> 
> Related to that, are you really considering embedding gtk4 into the 
> soname and pc file name?
> 
> 
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/NMA4-1.0.typelib
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0.0.0
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libnma-gtk4.pc
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0
> ./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.vapi
> ./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.deps
> ./usr/share/gir-1.0/NMA4-1.0.gir


yes. I think it's fine. is there a problem?

You cannot load gtk3 and gtk4 in the same application, and
consequently, you cannot load libnma.so (gtk3) and libnma-gtk4
together.

libnma is a GUI library based on GTK. It seems not unreasonable that
the GTK version is part of the library name -- in particular, as there
might come GTK5 in the future.

These are really two different libraries (with very similar API and the
same underlying sources).


best,
Thomas 

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Re: Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-13 Thread Thomas Haller via networkmanager-list
On Sat, 2022-03-12 at 21:47 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> there has been a flurry of updates for nm vpn plugins adding support
> for 
> GTK4. All of them require a libnma built with GTK4 support which is 
> still marked experimental.
> 
> I haven't seen any real follow up commits in libnma dealing with GTK4
> issues, so I wonder if the EXPERIMENTAL status is still true or if
> it's 
> safe to enable support for it (say in the Debian package).

hi,


it was called "experimental" in the NEWS file for "libnma-1.8.32" a few
weeks ago. Otherwise, I don't see that libnma-gtk4 is marked as
expirmental (is it?).

In general, we don't have a strong definition what it means that
something is experimental. The word was IMO used informally in the NEWS
file. We don't take that as an excuse to cause unnecessary(!) harm to
downstream/users by breaking API.

If you have a GTK4 application that needs libnma, then you are gonna
need the libnma-gtk4 version. Out of necessity, it's reasonable to
start using libnma-gtk4 now.


best,
Thomas

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Re: Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-12 Thread Michael Biebl

Am 12.03.22 um 21:47 schrieb Michael Biebl:


Hi there,

there has been a flurry of updates for nm vpn plugins adding support for 
GTK4. All of them require a libnma built with GTK4 support which is 
still marked experimental.


I haven't seen any real follow up commits in libnma dealing with GTK4 
issues, so I wonder if the EXPERIMENTAL status is still true or if it's 
safe to enable support for it (say in the Debian package).


Related to that, are you really considering embedding gtk4 into the 
soname and pc file name?



./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/NMA4-1.0.typelib
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0.0.0
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libnma-gtk4.pc
./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnma-gtk4.so.0
./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.vapi
./usr/share/vala/vapi/libnma-gtk4.deps
./usr/share/gir-1.0/NMA4-1.0.gir


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Is gtk4 support in libnma still EXPERIMENTAL?

2022-03-12 Thread Michael Biebl


Hi there,

there has been a flurry of updates for nm vpn plugins adding support for 
GTK4. All of them require a libnma built with GTK4 support which is 
still marked experimental.


I haven't seen any real follow up commits in libnma dealing with GTK4 
issues, so I wonder if the EXPERIMENTAL status is still true or if it's 
safe to enable support for it (say in the Debian package).


Regards,
Michael


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