Interview with Slobodan Milosevic
CNN Interview With President Of Serbia Slobodan Milosevic
December 22, 1994.
Announcer: Welcome to Larry King Live. Tonight a new hope or old
disappointments? Yet another ceasefire in Bosnia. Will this be the one
that holds? With us, Serbia's President Slobodan Milosevic. Then
analysis from those who know - diplomatic correspondents: CNN's Steve
Hurst, NBC's Andrea Mitchell, ABC's Barrie Dunsmore and CBS's David
Martin. Now live from Washington, here is Larry King.
King: Good evening! On the surface it seems to be a confusing story.
Names, places, numbers. In truth it is a most human of all dramas. It's
story of loss. Tens of thousands of people killed or missing. The
fighting in former Yugoslavia has been vicious and personal. How did it
come to this? Yugoslavia was once made up of six republics but between
1991 and 1992, four of them broke away. Each with a war nastier than the
last one. And when one of them tried to form a new nation, the Republic
of Bosnia-Herzegovina, fighting broke out within that republic among
three ethnic groups. The Bosnian Muslims, the Bosnian Croats and the
Bosnian Serbs. The Bosnian Serbs have had the most successes in this
war, and it's generally believed it's been with the help of fellow Serbs
across the border in Serbia. Dozens of previous ceasefires have been
announced but the people keep killing and dying and now a new one,
brokered by former president Jimmy Carter, takes effect on Friday. Just
today it was pronounced successful at a meeting between Serbia's
President Slobodan Milosevic and envoys from the United States, Britain,
France, Germany and Russia. Is President Milosevic right? Will this end
the violence in neighbouring Bosnia. he joins us in Serbia's capital of
Belgrade. Also joining us a little later on, the diplomatic
correspondents who watch all of this CNN's Steve Hurst, NBC's Andrea
Mitchell, ABC's Barrie Dunsmore and CBS's David Martin.
We thank you very much for being with us, Mr President. What was the
meeting with President Carter like?
President Milosevic: Good evening, Mr King. Happy holiday and a
peaceful New Year. My meeting with President Carter was a very good
meeting. After Cyrus Vance was here in Belgrade two years ago, President
Carter was the first American who understood the situation in our
country. And he achieved a very good success in mediating between the
sides in confrontation in Bosnia. I hope that cessation of hostilities
will take place and open possibilities for continuation of the peace
process. Much more successful than before.
King: Are you hopeful or are you predicting it? Are you saying this
time it will stick?
Milosevic: Well, I am a real optimist. I can say I am predicting this.
King: What's different this time?
Milosevic: Well, if you hope for something good, you can hope just
without reasons for that. But if you are predicting something that you
know well that things have matured to be ready for positive evolution. I
think that's the fact here.
King: What part in all of this, what part of the credit - if this does
work - should go to President Carter?
Milosevic: Well, a very big part, no doubt. I believe that his plan,
his document, is something that I can define as a Contact Group Plan
Plus because of the fact that his document comprises the Contact Group
plan, explaining that the continuation of negotiations, or start of
negotiations, will be based on the proposals of the Contact Group in all
points. But, in addition, there is a provision for an immediate
ceasefire and in the second phase a cessation of hostilities and a lot
of other provisions in terms of humanitarian aid. Red Cross activities,
release of detainees, problems of refugees and confidence-building
measures as a whole. So I think it is a very good concept which will
work.
King: You met with that Contact Group today, did you not?
Milosevic: Yes, yes, I think that it is clear that they are supporting
and I would say welcoming that achievement of President Carter which
expresses in the eyes of our public opinion the positive approach of the
United States and President Clinton wishing peace, wishing to help peace
in the area. And this is a policy which is for support, no doubt.
King: What is your goal? What is the Milosevic, Serbian goal?
Milosevic: Well, there are many goals. The first goal is the first
national interest of all Serbs and all citizens of Serbia and
Yugoslavia. That is peace in the area. And then, of course, successful
development.
King: Would you like to see Bosnian Serbs merge into Serbia? Do you
think the United States would approve of that? Do you think that's
possibility?
Milosevic: Well, that is not a formal question. We are one people, and
we are in any case merged. The institutional form of that kind of links
is not so important. We were supporting Serbs outside of Serbia to
protect their national interest. But not at the expense of other peoples
who are having the same national interest, a similar national interest,
the same rights to have and to affirm their interest. So I think that
we, all of us, are living in one territory in former Yugoslavia and I
was very curious watching the opening of this programme when I saw these
pictures, just a couple of minutes ago, at the start of this programme
on how Yugoslavia dissolved. I know that all of you in the United States
are having a very distorted picture of what really happened here. And
the media war is making its effects.
King: What is the most distorted thing about... what don't we know
that to you is an absolute fact?
Milosevic: You don't know, for example, that from the beginning of the
Yugoslav crisis Serbia was for peace and the preservation of the
territorial integrity of Yugoslavia. And it happens that it was done in
violation of the UN Charter. The Charter obliges the United Nations to
keep the integrity of the member states and Yugoslavia was one of the
founders of the United Nations. What happened in the case of Yugoslavia?
The international community supported secession from Yugoslavia and even
rewarded secession. First, Slovenia, then Croatia, then even
Bosnia-Herzegovina, which never existed as a state before, and punished
Serbia and Montenegro, which stayed within the previous country, for
their loyalty. So those who were for secession from their original state
were supported and rewarded even by the international community. Those
who were loyal to their country were punished.
King: We are back with President Milosevic. He is the President of
Serbia. It is rare that he grants interviews. We thank him for joining
us on Larry King Live tonight for the first half hour of this programme.
What about the atrocities committed by the Serbians? Can't be denied,
right? Many atrocities. What will happen from that? Will there be war
criminals? What's gonna happen?
Milosevic: I am not going to tell you that Serbs are angels. But the
Serbs are not devils either. In that civil war in Bosnia-Herzegovina
there are no innocent sides. All sides are guilty, only civilians are
innocent, suffering misery regardless of their nationality.
King: So the Serbs are more guilty than anyone else.
Milosevic: That is not true because of the fact that war was imposed
on the Serbs. They didn't want to get into any kind of war,
Bosnia-Herzegovina was created in an illegal referendum. Do you know, Mr
King, that even now, not only before, Bosnia-Herzegovina is defined as a
republic of three equal, constituent peoples - Muslims, Serbs and
Croats.
King: Then why has this gone of for four years? Why what Carter did
yesterday, why was that not done four years ago? Nobody wants to die,
why are we killing each other?
Milosevic: That was because of a process of secession of
Bosnia-Herzegovina from Yugoslavia. I just started to explain to you,
maybe it will be good for your programmes to take some records. I
remember very well that session in the Hague. Carrington was chairing.
All those things are on record. We heard a report from Cutilliero, the
Portuguese ambassador who was running the first conference on Bosnia,
reporting to the plenary session of the conference that he had achieved
some good progress. Immediately after him, we listened to an
intervention from Mr Izetbegovic, insisting on the immediate recognition
of an independent state. I then intervened, calling attention to very
big differences between the report of the head of the conference,
Cutilliero, and Izetbegovic's requests. Why to spoil the positive
evolution that Cutilliero reported by premature recognition that would
cause big problems. All those things are on record. Nobody wanted to
listen. They saw the war after that. The Serbs didn't want to be
second-class citizens of a Muslim state imposed on them. And they
couldn't accept that. That was the problem. They didn't want, the other
side didn't want to solve it through the conference, through the
peaceful process, through the conference started by the European
Community. they just entered the war. So the war was imposed on the
Serbs.
King: Is this the first time, Mr President, that you are going beyond
optimism into predicting that this is going to work?
Milosevic: Well, maybe I am an optimist by nature but I think that it
is a realistic predicting that we can see peace in the spring. I believe
so and I hope so with all my heart.
King: We'll take some calls for President Milosevic. There are reports
that you are still supplying arms to the Serbs in Bosnia. True?
Milosevic: No!
King: Is your goal a Greater Serbia?
Milosevic: That was never defined as a goal. It is somewhere outside.
Please have in mind one very clear argument. After the dissolution of
Yugoslavia when we proclaimed the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia -
Serbia and Montenegro - on the very day of the acceptance of the
constitution of FR Yugoslavia, the Federal Assembly issued a declaration
in which it was strictly written: FR Yugoslavia has no territorial
pretentions on its neighbours. That is clear.
King: That is still clear to you?
Milosevic: Nobody can deny it. Yes, that is till clear.
King: Let's take some calls for President Milosevic. Washington, DC,
hello.
Female voice: Mr Milosevic, what is your definition of a war criminal
and please explain how you fall either inside or outside that category?
Milosevic: All definitions of war criminals are the same in any
criminal around the world, including the criminal law of our country. We
are now having some war criminals in front of our courts for war crimes.
And nothing different from other countries in the world. I mean
civilised countries in the world.
King: Shall we have Michigen, hello.
Male voice: Good evening Mr King. And good evening Mr Milosevic. I
have a question on the civil war. Is it a religious war or is it gonna
be a spreading of the war to Kosovo as well because of the Muslim
religion?
King: How much of this war, Mr President, is religious?
Milosevic: I don't share opinions that that war is a religious war.
Religious wars belongs to the Middle Ages, not to the end of the 20th
century. That was the war that was provoked by growing nationalism. So
severe a nationalism has nothing in common with the end of the 20th
century as well. And that war was supported from outside. That is a
conflict between different ethnicities for their different interests and
the different interests of those who were supporting them from outside,
supporting the dissolution of Yugoslavia. It was much better for all
Yugoslavs to stay within Yugoslavia. No one people of former Yugoslavia
will find a better future outside of it. See what happened with the
former Yugoslav republics. Slovenia is a second-class county of Austria,
Croatia is a satellite country of Germany, Bosnia-Herzegovina doesn't
exist at all, Macedonia lost its sovereignty before it had gained it.
What happened to those former republics? Only FR Yugoslavia - Serbia and
Montenegro - stayed in the centre of the Balkans as an independent
country but punished by the international community for not accepting
the dissolution and disintegration of the country. That is what will be
visible after we have been in a kind of cover-up with that media war.
But I am sure that the truth is much stronger than the lies and when the
truth comes over all those things then it will be clear what really
happens here, in Yugoslavia. But that is a much longer story.
King: Do you think it will happen, do you think the whole story will
be learned?
Milosevic: Of course. No doubt.
King: Another call. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Hello.
Male Voice: Mr Milosevic. How can the Serbs be second-class citizens
when they themselves are the ones exercising ethnic cleansing in
Bosnia-Herzegovina on the Muslims?
Milosevic: No one here and no honest man can support any kind of
ethnic cleansing. But in that civil war a lot of those things happened
but not on one side. Those things were visible on any side. Remember how
severe there was fighting a year ago between Croats and Muslims outside
any touch of Serbs. So severe fighting and killing you could never
imagine. So, please recall that there is no innocent side in that civil
war and in severity the sides are equal and that's the product of that
war. And that's why the war must stop as soon as possible.
King: Mr President, do you remain a committed communist?
Milosevic: I did not quite understand what you said.
King: We hear stories that you were a communist, you are a communist.
With communism taking so much defeat around the world, are you still a
communist philosophically?
Milosevic: You are using an expression which is, how to say, demonised
in the American language. I am the founder of the Socialist party of
Serbia, the ruling party in three free elections in our country and it
is better to judge on the aims of the party through definitions of the
programme and the real aim. We want to create a wealthy society, on the
basis of a market economy and we are a market economy. That is one
important thing and also a just society, which means that values of the
society have to be accessible equally, or relatively equally, to all
citizens. Education, health care, social protection, child care,
pensions and so on. That's something which is going along with our ideas
a wealthy and just society. Those are our aims and I think that some of
those aims you will realise in the United States very soon. If you avoid
now, you will not avoid next time. Those things - health protection,
social protection and equal possibilities to have medical care for all
citizens are unavoidable even in your country and I hope you will not
avoid that.
King: Thank you, Mr President. Thank you for sharing this time with
us. Our guest has been President Slobodan Milosevic, the President of
the Republic of Serbia. We have committed satellite time. We might try
to get some extra satellite time and if we can, it is hard to arrange on
the spot, we will ask him to remain a few more moments. Maybe we will
take some questions from correspondents.
What can we expect from the bosnian ceasefire and other trouble spots
around the world. Joining us are those with a front-row view. CNN's own
State Department correspondent, Steve Hurst. NBC's chief foreign affairs
correspondent, Andrea Mitchell. Barrie Dunsmore, the ABC News diplomatic
correspondent, and from CBS, David Martin, Pentagon and national
security correspondent. President Milosevic remains with us and he's
agreed to take some calls from our panel. So we'll start with ladies
first. Andrea.
Mitchell: Mr President, are you willing now to recognise you
neighbours
- Bosnia, Croatia and Macedonia - and what are you willing to do to
prove to Senator Bob Dole and others in the US Senate, who want to
reimpose sanction on you in January, that you are not cheating and not
still supplying the Bosnian Serbs with weapons?
Milosevic: Well, that problem of sanctions is a key problem of very
bad understanding of the situation here. Sanctions were imposed because
of the condemnation that we have made aggression against Bosnia. Now it
clear to all the world that there is civil war between those three
constituent, equal peoples of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Like if you had, for
example, a conflict in Switzerland where you have the population of
their internal conflict. That was wrong.
King: What about the recognition of the other states?
Milosevic: Well, I will explain. The major mistake of the
international community. Many foreign politicians, including Lord
Carrington who was chairing the conference, and his colleagues, said
that many mistakes were made by the international community, starting
with the premature recognition and so on. Now I can tell you the major
mistake is the continuation of sanctions because of one simple fact. The
continuation of sanctions against Yugoslavia is feeding extremist from
both sides. Muslim extremists in Bosnia are dreaming that Serbia will
collapse under sanctions and then they will be able to widen that war to
Kosovo, to parts of the territory of Serbia and so on, which is totally
impossible.
Mitchell: Are you willing to recognise your neighbours, Mr President?
Milosevic: The other side, the extremists on the Serbian side, think
that sanctions will make dramatic problems here and that we will be
pushed and involved in some total war. That is why sanctions are feeding
motivation for the war option. Abolition of sanctions is practically the
first step which can help peace in the area.
About recognition I will be clear. We are sticking to the principles
we accepted at the beginning of the international conference on
Yugoslavia. It is fair to all subjects involved in that to stick to
those principles. Recognition will come after a political solution of
the crisis. For example, for Macedonia. We will easily recognise them
after they have solved their problem with Athens. There is no other
problem between us. But let them solve their problem with Athens, our
friends in Greece, and then we will recognise them. No problem with
that.
King: Barry Dunsmore of ABC for the President.
Dunsmore: Mr President, you have made a big issue of the fact that it
is not only the Serbs who are committing atrocities but everyone is
guilty to some degree or another. You recalled that about two years ago
the then Secretary of State, Laurence Eagleburger, who I know you are
acquainted with and were friendly with at one time decided that you and
General Mladic and Dr Karadzic are at least responsible for being
leaders at a time when ethnic cleansing and war crimes took place. And
he believed that you should be put on trial at least to determine the
degree of your culpability. I wonder to what extent that weighs on you
today and are you trying to be sure that in any arrangements that are
being made such a trial will never take place.
Milosevic: I don't believe that even larry Eagleburger believes today
what he said that day.
King: David Martin of CBS.
Martin: Mr President, how would you have to alter this proposed peace
agreement before the bosnian Serbs would sign it?
Milosevic: If I understood you well - the links are not brilliant -
the peace proposal is a matter for the sides in confrontation. An issue
that they must solve. So I think that the ideas of the Contact Group
putting a kind of balanced approach is a basis for the achievement of a
complete peace and political solution for Bosnia-herzegovina. And
finally what is new in our approach. Three years ago, two years, one
year ago, everywhere, here, or in the Hague, in Brussels, in Paris, in
Moscow, in Athens, in Geneva and so on - all those things are on the
record - I was always explaining there is only one solution for
Bosnia-Herzegovina, the former Yugoslav republic. That is the solution
which will equally protect the interests of all three constituent
peoples in Bosnia-herzegovina. There is no other way for a durable
peace. No other way. And this is why I think that an approach which is
balanced offering a kind of 50-50 division can be a good basis for the
achievement of the solution.
King: One more question. Steve Hurst of CNN.
Hurst: President Milosevic, are you now then saying that the Bosnian
Serbs are willing to give up one third of the land that they have won in
the 32 months of fighting? Are you going to be pressing them for that
sort of concession.
Milosevic: They said that, not now, they said that even before. They
are ready to give some land for peace. No doubt.
Hurst: Not some land but one third on what they have taken back. The
Contact Group plan that you have mentioned calls for a roughly 50-50
split.
Milosevic: Yes, that is clear, that is their will and I am sure of
another thing. I know very well that 99 per cent of Serbs in Bosnia want
peace. The same is true of the Muslims. Only extremists on both sides
would like to continue the war.
King: Mr President, thank you for sharing this time with us. We
appreciate it very much.
One other thing for President Milosevic. How are you and Mr Karadzic
getting along? Things better?
Milosevic: I don't understand you, Mr King. Excuse me.
King: How are you the head of the Bosnian Serbs getting along.
Milosevic: Oh, I am not accordance with him at all. We are not getting
along.
Mitchel: You are not really in cahoots together? You are not just
pretending to be in disagreement, Mr President?
Milosevic: Excuse me, madam, but I really don't hear very well what is
your question. Please repeat the question!
King: Okey, she said you're not pretending this disagreement, there is
genuine disagreement between you and the Bosnian Serb leadership.
Milosevic: Well, there is real disagreement between me and some of
them and top of them, let us say that.
King: And you are hopeful, are you hopeful on that end that that will
get better?
Milosevic: Well, I don't believe so when some individuals are
considered.
King: Thank you, and thank you for optimism and predictions on the
other end of a successful peace brought about by President Carter and
the others involved. We thank the President again.
_______________________________________________
Serbian News Network - SNN
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.antic.org/
