Re: Compiling?
Terminology mishmash adds unneeded confusion. * Translator means high-level to high-level * Compilation means high-level to low-level or binary For myself, I call current Nim implementation is translator only, it can distinct other possible Nim implementation via LLVM (low-level SSA) as the compiler.
Re: Possible minor bug in unused import checker [1.0]
Thank you. Please report this issue on github.
Re: Compiling?
> Nim is only a transpiler for JavaScript. Gah... trigger word! :D
Idle thread garbage collection
Is Nim garbage collector can be isolated to separate thread to be run in an idle thread in hard-realtime systems? I'm still looking on Nim usage on Cortex-M and MSP430x microcontrollers, and integrate it with FreeRTOS.
Re: Idle thread garbage collection
No, a heap is tied to a thread and cannot be moved elsewhere for a background collection. Not unlike Erlang does it. But it does respect the deadlines if you operate in its "realtime mode". Note this is for soft-realtime applications, hard-realtime are different beasts and you're better off with avoiding `ref`, `closure`, pool allocations and Nim's `--newruntime` switch.
Re: Nim for Beginners Video Series
Looks good. I hope you continue.
Re: Nim playground
AdHoc user is created and destroyed after processing.
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Everyday I opened Nim homepage to check whether 1.0 is arrived.
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
I think the question of "Why use Nim?" is incomplete without context. There should be several specific variants of this question, each with a somewhat different set of arguments: * Why use Nim to teach [CS101](https://www.i-programmer.info/news/150-training-a-education/7511-python-becomes-most-popular-cs-teaching-language.html)? * Why use Nim for mobile apps? * Why use Nim for desktop apps? * Why use Nim for desktop games? * Why use Nim for Web front-end? * Why use Nim for [Web back-end](https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r17=cl=json)? * Why use Nim for a new OS kernel? * Why use Nim for command-line tools? Etc. And sometimes the answer will be "No, Nim isn't the best option". In some comparisons C, Python, or ye olde shell script still wins... Since I focus almost entirely on **command-line tools** , I can provide the following reasons for using Nim to write, let's say, [a new ls](https://github.com/ogham/exa), [rsync](https://github.com/kristapsdz/openrsync), or nmap: * Much more productive and safer than C/C++, with almost no performance loss. * No run-time, and much smaller binary sizes than Rust, D, Go, Haskell, etc. * Nim is more portable than some languages to obscure Unix variants (ex. all BSDs, Solaris, AIX, MINIX), HaikuOS, etc. Many competing languages ([Dlang](https://forum.dlang.org/thread/hpauduyizitshugjj...@forum.dlang.org?page=3), Swift, .NET Core, Julia, Red/System) don't even support OpenBSD! Many also don't support some CPU architectures (ex. RISC-V), while Nim is easy to port because it can leverage just about any C compiler. * Having the option of using a different backend (gcc, msvc, [IBM z/OS XL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_XL_C/C%2B%2B_Compilers), [icc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C%2B%2B_Compiler), [aocc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Optimizing_C/C%2B%2B_Compiler), [pgi](https://www.pgroup.com/index.htm), etc) means better performance than LLVM (Rust, DMD, Crystal, Swift, Zig, Pony, Kotlin Native, [etc](https://llvm.org/ProjectsWithLLVM/)) on some specialized platforms. * Nim is still a [permissive licensing champion](https://archive.fo/YShGX), with no restrictively-licensed dependencies and all tooling being MIT-licensed (or [equivalent](http://copyfree.org)). This means Nim can be used in all possible contexts. * See the "base must compile base" reasoning for [OpenBSD rejecting base components written in "safe" languages](https://duckduckgo.com/?q="Integrating+safe+languages+into+OpenBSD%3F;) like Rust. If any language can supplant C there, the compiler itself would have to have very minimal compile time. Here Nim is second [only to Vlang](https://archive.fo/k5XfE#selection-473.0-478.0) (which isn't a serious competitor yet), and orders of magnitude better than anything based on LLVM.
Re: Modify AST at compile time?
But @LeFF asks for this - [https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/4068](https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/4068) (module level macro), and even the same for whole the program.
Re: Modify AST at compile time?
Create a macro say inject_profile
inject_profile:
proc foo() =
discard
proc bar() =
discard
proc baz() =
discard
Run
In the inject_profile macro you iterate on all items contained in the
nnkStmtList, if you find a RoutineNode (proc, template, iterator, macro), you
replace the nnkStmtList body with prologue+body+epilogue.
However I recommend you go the template way instead, it will give you much more
granularity for example this is what I use for [profiling my multithreading
runtime](https://github.com/mratsim/weave/blob/2bb0284eec8882412886fb15c948b2826b81/e04_channel_based_work_stealing/profile.nim#L52-L55):
>
> template profile*(name, body: untyped): untyped {.dirty.} =
> profile_start(name)
> body
> profile_stop(name)
>
>
> Run
And
[usage](https://github.com/mratsim/weave/blob/330a5113e62f332441397208b1084008a576f83f/e04_channel_based_work_stealing/runtime.nim#L920-L969):
proc schedule() =
## Executed by worker threads
while true: # Scheduling loop
# 1. Private task queue
while (let task = pop(); not task.isNil):
assert not task.fn.isNil, "Thread: " & $ID & " received a null task
function."
profile(run_task):
run_task(task)
profile(enq_deq_task):
deque_list_tl_task_cache(deque, task)
# 2. Work-stealing request
try_send_steal_request(idle = true)
assert requested != 0
var task: Task
profile(idle):
while not recv_task(task):
assert deque.deque_list_tl_empty()
assert requested != 0
decline_all_steal_requests()
assert not task.fn.isNil, "Thread: " & $ID & " received a null task
function."
let loot = task.batch
when defined(StealLastVictim):
if task.victim != -1:
last_victim = task.victim
assert last_victim != ID
if loot > 1:
profile(enq_deq_task):
task = deque_list_tl_pop(deque_list_tl_prepend(deque, task, loot))
have_tasks()
when defined(VictimCheck):
if loot == 1 and splittable(task):
have_tasks()
when StealStrategy == StealKind.adaptative:
inc num_steals_exec_recently
share_work()
profile(run_task):
run_task(task)
profile(enq_deq_task):
deque_list_tl_task_cache(deque, task)
if tasking_done():
return
Run
Possible minor bug in unused import checker [1.0]
Hi, signed up to post this. Congrats on achieving 1.0! My two current major projects already built just fine and in fact thanks to the unused imports message I was able to cull a bunch. I did however find a small problem. In one of them I have some modules which I export functionality from. The issue I found is that when one exports an imported module with a different name, i.e. import X as Y export Y Run The compiler still warns about _X_ being an unused import, even if this is used in a module which imports this one. Here's the minimal sample I confirmed this with: [https://anonfile.com/b3ueEe6an1/minimal_sample_zip](https://anonfile.com/b3ueEe6an1/minimal_sample_zip)
Re: WinCon vs 1.0.0
For me, no cyrillic characters get printed, just get skipped. Tested with many combinations of `-d:nimDontSetUtf8CodePage` and without, utf-8, windows-1251 and DOS 866 (terminal's encoding) at Nim side and at terminal's side.
Re: Newbie Karax Question
> Are all DOM updates tied to events such that the datetime value wont update > on its own? Yep, you need to ask Karax to refresh in your dateTimeUpdate. Afaik you can just call `redraw` to do that.
Nim for Beginners Video Series
Hello, i have made an introductory video to Nim on YouTube and i will be making more in the coming days. This will be a video series meant to teach people programming in Nim to people who have never programmed before, or are new to Nim. Link: [https://youtu.be/5tVIsDYPClA](https://youtu.be/5tVIsDYPClA) Any and all criticism is welcome, i would like to know what i did wrong and how to improve.
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Finally!! This is really good news. Congrats to Araq and anyone of the devel team.
Re: WinCon vs 1.0.0
I was wondering if using the WCHARs instead of CHARs may fix the issue? On Windows it always better to go Unicode way, instead of ANSI way, as the kernel itself in Unicode based. For example you could directly use _putws to output unicode strings.
Re: Modify AST at compile time?
I don't quite get it, there is an attribute macro for example, it can transform the AST for functions that the attribute is assigned to. Is there a way to assign the attribute to the whole module? And to all modules that is being compiled with my project, including the Nim's stdlib?
Re: 1.0.0 is here
It happened!!! Congrats!!! Long life to this wonderful language.
Re: Compiling?
You can get the c files in the cache folder ~/.cache/nim/_d. You can also call nim c -c to compile only C and stop. Useful for compiling to other OSs or mobile devices like Android or iOS>
Re: Compiling?
> Is there a way to get the .c file before the compilation to binary? `~/.cache/nim`
Re: Compiling?
`--nimcache:.` will put the .c on the current folder.
Re: Modify AST at compile time?
Yes, you can modify AST with Nim. The compiler is also a package on Nimble, you can import stuff from it. The rest sounds kind of complex, but still.
Newbie Karax Question
I'm learning Karax (for fun) and seem to be having an issue with text updating - most likely I am doing something wrong. My main `app.nim` is simply: include karax/prelude import components/header proc main() = proc render(): VNode = buildHtml: tdiv: renderHeader() setRenderer render when isMainModule: main() Run The `header.nim` file is: import sugar, times include karax/prelude from dom import setTimeout const dateTimeFormat = ", , d, - h:mm:ss tt" var datetime: kstring = "" proc dateTimeUpdate() = datetime = format(now(), dateTimeFormat) echo "update time - " & datetime # <-- This is showing up correctly in the browsers console discard dom.window.setTimeout(dateTimeUpdate, 1000) dateTimeUpdate() proc renderHeader*(): VNode = buildHtml: tdiv: h1(text datetime) # <-- This isn't updating on its own button(text="Hello", onclick = () => (echo datetime)): # <-- Clicking this unrelated button causes the DOM to update text "Hello Button" Run The `dateTimeUpdate()` proc does seem to be updating the datetime value as per the web console: update time - Tuesday, September, 24, 2019 - 3:00:10 PM update time - Tuesday, September, 24, 2019 - 3:00:11 PM update time - Tuesday, September, 24, 2019 - 3:00:12 PM update time - Tuesday, September, 24, 2019 - 3:00:13 PM update time - Tuesday, September, 24, 2019 - 3:00:14 PM ... Run I'm expecting the `h1` element to update every second with a new formatted datetime, however, it doesn't seem to update on it's own. When I click the button, it does update the DOM. Are all DOM updates tied to events such that the datetime value wont update on its own?
Re: Compiling?
Thank you a lot Araq, moigagoo, treeform and juancarlospaco. Is there a way to get the .c file before the compilation to binary?
Re: WinCon vs 1.0.0
Not a nim issue but a windows terminal issue. Call chcp 65001 Run To set output to unicode. Borders and Unicode works great after that.
Re: Compiling?
Nim is a Compiler. Nim is only a transpiler for JavaScript. All code end up being _binary code_ , AKA machine code, AKA _".exe"_, even highest level ones, try `node --print_code -e 1+1` and you will see.
Re: Compiling?
Yeah, you can think of it as translating the code “twice”, but that is not the whole picture. You can break out the compilation process into any number of steps! Depends what you count as a “translation” step. I think of nim being 1 step: nim -> exe comes out. But you can think of it as 2 steps: nim -> C -> exe comes out. But really C has its own steps, so maybe 4 steps: nim -> C -> Assembler -> Linker -> exe comes out. But really there are a ton of steps in the middle too, maybe 18 steps is more accurate: Nim lexical Nim syntax Nim semantic Nim generics folding Nim macro expansion Nim code generator C preprocessor C lexical C syntax C intermediate code generator C code optimizer C target code generator Assembler preprocessor Assembler Lexical Assembler Syntax Assembler code generator Linker Exe comes out. Is one step better than any other step? Does the number of steps matter? If you stuff compiles fast - and it does compile fast with nim - it does not matter at all. How many “translation” steps does nim have? Depends how you count.
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Awesome! Now I can use Nim in production.
Re: Compiling?
Nim only does the Nim code to C | C++ | JS code transformation. C | C++ to binary is done by a C | C++ compiler.
Modify AST at compile time?
Hello! Sorry if my question is too obvious, I'm still new to Nim. I know Nim is great at metaprogramming stuff. Is it possible to get and transform the AST of all compiled modules at compile time? Basically I want to inject some custom code to the begining and to the end of all functions (including Nim's standard library) so I could integrate Nim projects with our custom profiling system, written in C. Then I will need to search and transform some AST nodes for the sake of code protection, but I need to start somewhere. Is it possible with Nim's metaprogramming tools?
Re: 1.0.0 is here
That's great news! Thanks to all the people involved!
Re: Tried to learn NIM some feedback
> But lots of packages has the Docs built-in as documentation comments, > including runnableExamples. so you think that a simple - even small - readme file telling what the package is or can do is not necessary ? why would I take time to look at the code if there's not even a few words telling me what I could find there sorry but more generally in that case there's no more doc inside the code.
Re: Compiling?
There is no meaningful distinction between a "translator" and a "compiler". Is GCC a real compiler or only a translator to GNU assembler? Is Rust a real compiler or only a translator to LLVM IR?
Re: Compiling?
Hi, So, the Nim compiler translate my code twice? Something like that: Nim -> .cpp -> .exe
Compiling?
So, is Nim compiler only a translate to others languages? Like: Nim -> C -> binary code Nim -> C++ -> binary code Nim -> JS
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
Your comparison with D neglects a few points in D's favor (and surely some in Nim's favor too...) that I think deserve mention, namely that D supports the equivalent of template template parameters and that D templates are templated over scoped code blocks, and that the class/function template divide of C++ is emulated in D with a shorthand (eponymous templates) but that the full code block introduces a new scope, which can be very useful. I tried to explain that [here](https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/5006) but I failed badly. That said, I still prefer Nim.
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Congratulations to the entire Nim team. It's about time! Now, when is Nim 2.0 coming out? :-P
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
Got picked up on ZDnet as well: [https://www.zdnet.com/article/python-inspired-nim-version-1-0-of-the-programming-language-launches](https://www.zdnet.com/article/python-inspired-nim-version-1-0-of-the-programming-language-launches)/
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
Well, the article was published this morning, here it is: [https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/24/nim_version_10](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/24/nim_version_10)/
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
comments are even better then usual reddit/hn crowd.
Re: WinCon vs 1.0.0
Nah, fourth time is special. Fourth time I will show this beauty to you, not tell: [https://sun9-37.userapi.com/c858420/v858420146/88b28/u_LHAtZ1LD0.jpg](https://sun9-37.userapi.com/c858420/v858420146/88b28/u_LHAtZ1LD0.jpg)
Re: WinCon vs 1.0.0
> So, what should we do now ? You should definitely tell us about it for the fourth time in a single day.
Re: WinCon vs 1.0.0
It's stereotype, like all Linux users having red insomniac eye and ~nix having no gaems. In reality old-school terminal interface is quite perfect for utils like mass testers. And, pardon me, _what_ Windows users of Nim supposed to use if not terminal ?
Re: WinCon vs 1.0.0
I am a Linux person, but... all times Ive seen a Windows _user_ they wont use Terminal at all, all times Ive seen a Windows _developer_ they wont use the native built-in Terminal at all. 路♀️
Re: Tried to learn NIM some feedback
But lots of packages has the Docs built-in as documentation comments, including `runnableExamples`.
WinCon vs 1.0.0
So, it's release time, I heard. So, Nim is production quality now. And yet, situation with Windows terminal now is worse than ever. Not only cyrillics (even system error messages !), but even extended characters (like borders) is mangled when printed to console now.
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
Cross-compiling should be noted, especially for low-end platforms like Cortex-M. It is far from ready to use but is language will evolve, it can be a killer feature comparing to Rust and Go. (Rust is there too).
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Congrats guys! Nice work :)
Re: 1.0.0 is here
I'd just like to thank all the developers who contributed to this. What stands out for me is the new importjs pragma. Much more intuitive than the importcpp thing. Great work!
Re: Great tutorials needed
> is the "miran" in "narimiran" the same as @miran ? if so, nice work, thanks ! It is, thanks :)
Re: Great tutorials needed
the first one on the learn page, "Nim Basics", is the better one to start. [https://narimiran.github.io/nim-basics](https://narimiran.github.io/nim-basics)/ _is the "miran" in "narimiran" the same as @miran ? if so, nice work, thanks !_
Re: Error by duplicated file names (redefinition of 'types'; previous declaration here...)
It's tested with v.1.0.0.
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Congratulations! This is an great news!!! Well done!
Re: 1.0.0 is here
> A great day for Nim. (day, when console support got broken even more than > ever) Worked for us and was tested on three different terminals... ;-)
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
Nim macros in particular allow manipulating the syntax tree to write custom DSL's Run How about adding a sinatra-like web framework (Jester) as an example of DSL?
Re: Tried to learn NIM some feedback
Fair. The main point is that if you are unhappy with Nim's threading, you can write your own.
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Great day for all of us that love Nim! And the big good news for our Nim are yet to come! Cheers to all Nimsters!
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
> C++ with its classes and template is really hard. Can Nim use C++ libs like > Boost, CGAL, Qt out of the box? I'm pretty sure it can. We have wrapped a header-only C++ template-only bigint library: [https://github.com/status-im/nim-ttmath](https://github.com/status-im/nim-ttmath). More benefits of the macro system: * no need to resort to Python, Ruby or JS codegen, or 2 step codegen to write an Assembler, VM Emulator, all can be done in Nim. * Example of C++ 2-step codegen for a popular assembler with text interpolation: [XByak](https://github.com/herumi/xbyak/blob/master/gen/gen_code.cpp) used by many projects including Intel Deep Learning backend. * Another example with a JS opcode table codegen, that is then pasted into C++ by [asmjit](https://github.com/asmjit/asmjit/blob/238243530a35f5ad6205695ff0267b8bd639543a/src/asmjit/x86/x86instdb.cpp#L12-L16) used notably by Facebook's PyTorch. * Nim proof-of-concept [Assembler opcode codegen](https://github.com/numforge/laser/blob/2f619fdbb2496aa7a5e5538035a8d42d88db8c10/laser/photon_jit/x86_64/x86_64_ops.nim). * Nim proof-of-concept [emulator codegen for 6502](https://github.com/mratsim/glyph/blob/8b278c5e76c3f1053a196173a93686afda0596cc/glyph/snes/opcodes.nim) * You can reimplement Numpy-like indexing which is one of the main draws of Numpy, Julia and Matlab. * You can even implement your [own compiler in macros](https://github.com/numforge/laser/tree/2f619fdbb2496aa7a5e5538035a8d42d88db8c10/laser/lux_compiler) i.e. I think Nim is the best language to provide custom focused DSL. Beyond the macro system, I'm not aware of any other languages with the complete package of: * distinct types (i.e. avoid mixing Meters and Miles) * range types * type-level integer/boolean/enum * generics which allows enforcing several constraints at compile-time. In terms of breadth, Nim allows getting as close-to-metal as C when needed but as high-level as Python in case where tight control over OS resources (memory, file descriptor, sockets, ...) is not needed. The fact that the GC is tunable (we can swap implementation between deferred reference counting, mark-and-sweep, boehm) and also decided per type (only ref objects are GC-ed, plain object and ptr object are not) makes Nim very flexible.
Great tutorials needed
Is there any getting started tutorials for Nim? I mean nice and clear step by step tutorials with great explanation, infographics, maybe video playlist on Youtube channel e.t.c. Also with real-world examples.
Re: Great tutorials needed
We have these: [https://nim-lang.org/learn.html](https://nim-lang.org/learn.html) Whether those are "nice and clear step by step tutorials with great explanation" it is up to the reader to decide.
Re: 1.0.0 is here
A great day for nim. (day, when console support got broken even more than ever)
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
thanks; I've updated the wording in the C++ interop paragraph
Re: 1.0.0 is here
A great day for Nim! Congratulations to Araq and the entire Nim team, fantastic work on a huge milestone!
Re: [RFC] Why use Nim?
> Very few other languages support direct C++ interop. I think we should not advertize C++ interop. too loud. C++ with its classes and template is really hard. Can Nim use C++ libs like Boost, CGAL, Qt out of the box? I dont think so, and I think onl C++ itself can use these libs unrestricted. (Some years ago I had to call CGAL and Boost functions from Ruby -- well it is possible using plain C interfaces and fixed template parameters, but it is not easy and very restricted.)
[RFC] Why use Nim?
I was asked to comment on the following for an article: > Nim has just reached 1.0 and I was wondering whether you might be willing to comment on why Nim is useful and where it fits into the continuum of programming languages? Here's my tentative response; feedback is welcome: Nim gives you the speed and portability of C, the ease of use of python, fast compilation (30 seconds to recompile nim itself). It supports a wide range of platforms (including android and iOS) and targets C/C++/javascript which means you can write your entire stack (frontend/backend/mobile) using the same language and standard library. C/C++/js interop makes it easy to gradually incorporate nim in an existing codebase and take advantage of existing foreign libraries. These bindings can further be automatically generated (see c2nim and nimterop). Very few other languages support direct C++ interop. Like D, Nim is relatively unopiniated and supports multiple programming paradigms (imperative, generic, object oriented, functional). However what truly sets it apart from all other languages is its unique metaprogramming features. Nim macros in particular allow manipulating the syntax tree to write custom DSL's, eliminate boilerplate, automate binding generation (eg nimterop), integrate with python (nimpy), automatically serialize/deserialize (eg protobuf-nim), generate React-like single page web apps (karax), and more generally allow libraries to extend the language without bloating the compiler. And because all of this can be done at compile time, you also avoid the need for makefiles or complex build scripts. While the language is by no means small (like C or go), the learning curve is much more gentle compared to languages like Rust or especially C++. The main drawbacks essentially derive from its small user base and lack of significant corporate backing: 3rd party libraries (distributed via nimble) are sometimes lacking, the rate of commits in the compiler/standard library is slow compared to more popular languages and limited by a small number of core / repeat contributors. Hopefully this will improve now that 1.0 was released. Some aspects of the language are more experimental / buggy / underspec'd so users should expect to encounter occasional issues especially when more advanced language features interact; this also means Nim may not be suitable in more conservative development environments. See also [https://github.com/timotheecour/D_vs_nim](https://github.com/timotheecour/D_vs_nim) where I provide a more detailed comparison between Nim and D, a language with similar design goals (hopefully objective, as I've used D extensively before switching to Nim for most of my projects).
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Updated the Docker images: [https://cloud.docker.com/u/nimlang/repository/docker/nimlang/nim/tags](https://cloud.docker.com/u/nimlang/repository/docker/nimlang/nim/tags)
Re: 1.0.0 is here
SUCCESS!
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Error: undeclared identifier: 'mode' Hm...
Re: 1.0.0 is here
Very cool, congrats to the Nim team!
Re: 1.0.0 is here
great news, thanks.. !!
Re: Tried to learn NIM some feedback
> A third-party threadpool like > [https://github.com/yglukhov/threadpools](https://github.com/yglukhov/threadpools) do you really think that newcomers on Nim will be using a package with not even a simple readme file ? when I find something like that on Github, I don't even look at the code or search for anything more, I go away..!
