Re: [Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[Guillaume Maudoux (Layus)]

+1

I read once an article showing that to avoid proliferation of annoying 
messages, the best action was to ignore them.
Banning people just makes them want to fight harder against the 
perceived injustice.


When new (non-constructive) "fuck systemd" messages come to this mailing 
list, I will do as for all the previous ones, ignore & archive.

Et voilà.

-- Layus.


PS : Kudos to ayone able to find a link to the aforementioned article.
I cannot lay my hand on it.

On 04/04/17 18:45, zimbatm wrote:


I'm proud of how mature the nix community is, it takes some effort to 
not respond to hate with more hate. Share the love :D



On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, 17:05 Alexey Shmalko, > wrote:


I recommend reading You Are What You Write[1] and Difficult People[2]
chapters of Producing Open Source Software[3] by Karl Fogel. They
describe how to handle similar situations; banning people is extreme
measures, and most situations can be resolved without that.

[1]: http://producingoss.com/en/you-are-what-you-write.html
[2]: http://producingoss.com/en/difficult-people.html
[3]: http://producingoss.com/
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl 
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev



___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev


___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

Re: [Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[Arnold Krille]

Hi,

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 14:22:48 +0200 Profpatsch  wrote:
> On 17-04-04 10:05am, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> > Can we just ban the (non-constructive) "fuck systemd" people? I 
> > mean... nobody benefits from this kind of behaviour and it creates 
> > frustration all over the place. Nobody gets happy with these kind
> > of messages.
> > 
> > Is there a technical possibility for this?
> 
> Normally these people vent once and then stay quiet;
> if someone starts flamewars on a regular basis
> we should warn them first, and on repetition ban.
> 
> So far that hasn’t happened yet, right?

Maybe the OPs question was not about the same person regularly
starting flamewars but about flamewars about the same topic started
regularly by different people each time?

I don't think a rule of 'flame systemd once and you are out' would do
the community any good, even if the threshold is higher. After all a
critical reminder can make you rethink if you are still on the right
path. Altough I personally tend to shrug off these "I hate
systemd"-topics and notice that another half a year has passed already.

> And maybe these folks will see the light someday. :)

Or "lightd" will be forced upon them? - sorry, couldn't resist.

- Arnold


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

Re: [Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[zimbatm]

I'm proud of how mature the nix community is, it takes some effort to not
respond to hate with more hate. Share the love :D

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, 17:05 Alexey Shmalko,  wrote:

> I recommend reading You Are What You Write[1] and Difficult People[2]
> chapters of Producing Open Source Software[3] by Karl Fogel. They
> describe how to handle similar situations; banning people is extreme
> measures, and most situations can be resolved without that.
>
> [1]: http://producingoss.com/en/you-are-what-you-write.html
> [2]: http://producingoss.com/en/difficult-people.html
> [3]: http://producingoss.com/
> ___
> nix-dev mailing list
> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
>
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

Re: [Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[Alexey Shmalko]

I recommend reading You Are What You Write[1] and Difficult People[2]
chapters of Producing Open Source Software[3] by Karl Fogel. They
describe how to handle similar situations; banning people is extreme
measures, and most situations can be resolved without that.

[1]: http://producingoss.com/en/you-are-what-you-write.html
[2]: http://producingoss.com/en/difficult-people.html
[3]: http://producingoss.com/


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

Re: [Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[Oliver Charles]

Matthias Beyer  writes:

> We had the systemd conversation endless times now.
>
> We all know that some people don't like systemd and other ones like 
> it.
>
> Can we just ban the (non-constructive) "fuck systemd" people? I 
> mean... nobody benefits from this kind of behaviour and it creates 
> frustration all over the place. Nobody gets happy with these kind of 
> messages.
>
> How to deal with this? I propose one "Please leave us alone with your 
> hate, we know about the concerns and blah, but please let it be" and 
> after that banning the user.

I hate to be that guy, but I think this is really pointing towards a
need for some form of Code of Conduct - if you want to go down the route
of someone making such decisions. I say that, because my immediate
reaction to your comment is: when do we ban? Is it literally for saying
"fuck systemd"? I assume it's not. So it requires a decision process.

Whether or not there is a need for a Code of Conduct, I would like at
least a transparent process into bans.

> Is there a technical possibility for this?

In the meantime, your mail client should have the ability to bin any

mail from particular people, which might be enough to let you carry on
without the noise.

-- ocharles
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

Re: [Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[Moritz Ulrich]

Matthias Beyer  writes:

> We had the systemd conversation endless times now.
>
> We all know that some people don't like systemd and other ones like 
> it.
>
> Can we just ban the (non-constructive) "fuck systemd" people? I 
> mean... nobody benefits from this kind of behaviour and it creates 
> frustration all over the place. Nobody gets happy with these kind of 
> messages.
>
> How to deal with this? I propose one "Please leave us alone with your 
> hate, we know about the concerns and blah, but please let it be" and 
> after that banning the user.

I don't think banning would work. If someone *really* wants to annoy us
here we can just click himself another email address every other day. 

My usual approach is ignoring such threads. We could additionally link
to some sort of faq entry explaining NixOS' usage of systemd and by this
get rid of long debates.

I think I'm fine with any approach. However, I fear that a discussion on
ban-critia might be more noise than the systemd debate. Plus, banning
people can casts a bad shadow on the community.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

Re: [Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[Profpatsch]

On 17-04-04 10:05am, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> Can we just ban the (non-constructive) "fuck systemd" people? I 
> mean... nobody benefits from this kind of behaviour and it creates 
> frustration all over the place. Nobody gets happy with these kind of 
> messages.
> 
> Is there a technical possibility for this?

Normally these people vent once and then stay quiet;
if someone starts flamewars on a regular basis
we should warn them first, and on repetition ban.

So far that hasn’t happened yet, right?
And maybe these folks will see the light someday. :)


-- 
Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
A: http://five.sentenc.es
May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

[Nix-dev] Banning people from the mailinglist?

[Matthias Beyer]

We had the systemd conversation endless times now.

We all know that some people don't like systemd and other ones like 
it.

Can we just ban the (non-constructive) "fuck systemd" people? I 
mean... nobody benefits from this kind of behaviour and it creates 
frustration all over the place. Nobody gets happy with these kind of 
messages.

How to deal with this? I propose one "Please leave us alone with your 
hate, we know about the concerns and blah, but please let it be" and 
after that banning the user.

Is there a technical possibility for this?

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

Consider switching to free software.
It adds value to your life.
https://www.gnu.org/


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
nix-dev mailing list
nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev