Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-22 Thread Chris Garrigues
From: "Dan Harkless" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:55:35 -0700 Ralph Corderoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Couldn't nmh develop into having multiple back-ends for different formats and cope with some formats not allowing some operations? Then anno on IMAP would gracefully

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
What provision in RFC 2060 treats flags as a scarce resource? I missed that in my reading. It might just be my reading of the specification - there is a fair amount of text regarding the limits w.r.t. permanent flags. I know of no IMAP server in common use which does not support arbitrary

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-13 Thread Scott Blachowicz
On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 12:02:52AM -0400, Ken Hornstein wrote: Maybe he's talking about the ability of the UW imapd to access the MH folders you have on the server? I've used it before (in 'pine' to access a folder "{SYSTEM_NAME}#mh/lists/foo", for instance) to do just that. These days, I

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-13 Thread chad
From my point of view, IMAP offers two main improvements over POP3. The second is an extension of the first, and hasn't actually been realized anywhere as far as I know. 1.) remote storage. I'd like to be able to get to my mail from multiple different systems without having to log in to

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Dan Harkless
Ken Hornstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IMO, it's rare because people these days don't think of being able to do it; they're used to GUI mail front-ends that don't allow (?) this kind of thing. Use an IMAP client recently? Well, he made it clear that he hadn't. Lots of us nmh folks

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Shantonu Sen
If there's no way to replace a message on the server with a local version, then if nmh does local caching of IMAP messages, modification of those messages will definitely be an issue. See the APPEND IMAP4rev1 command: append: http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1730.html#sec-6.3.10. It

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Ken Hornstein
See the APPEND IMAP4rev1 command: append: http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1730.html#sec-6.3.10. Yeah, I had look at this, but it really doesn't work - you can't _replace_ an old message, you can only add a new one to a folder. You can set a system-defined flag called \Answer that

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi, Well, the real crux of the problem is that there are some things that you simply cannot _do_ within the context of IMAP. The big one that comes to mind is annotations (there really isn't a way to modify messages on the server, from my reading of the specification). Ouch, that

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Neil W Rickert
Are we making this too complex? If we really wanted to use IMAP, we wouldn't be using 'nmh'. I can see two possible roles for IMAP for the dedicated 'nmh' user: (1) As a pipe, to download messages into your nmh folders. You would really be using it much as you use POP3. You might

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Dan Harkless
Ralph Corderoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, the real crux of the problem is that there are some things that you simply cannot _do_ within the context of IMAP. The big one that comes to mind is annotations (there really isn't a way to modify messages on the server, from my reading

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Dan Harkless
Ken Hornstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, anno might be implementable via the IMAP "tags" facility, no? Are you thinking about "flags"? Yeah, sorry -- I'm just picking up the terminology from this discussion. I don't think they're rich enough to emulate everything that annotations

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Ken Hornstein
I don't think they're rich enough to emulate everything that annotations give you. Because you can't add multiple ones per message, or because they're of a fixed length, or...? The IMAP specification treats them as a fairly scarce resource. I haven't done a survey, but IMAP servers aren't

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread Scott Blachowicz
(2) When away from your main system, you might want to be able to use IMAP to access your nmh folders from a remote site. _This_ would require a special IMAP server; I'm not sure one like this exists, and would be a lot of work. The IMAP model, for good or bad, is you always keep

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-12 Thread John Reinhagen
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], also sprach Ken Hornstein: I don't think they're rich enough to emulate everything that annotations give you. Because you can't add multiple ones per message, or because they're of a fixed length, or...? The IMAP specification treats them as a fairly scarce

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Anders Eriksson
I was thinking along the lines of Shantonu Sen [EMAIL PROTECTED] (nmh as client) where we take advantage of nmh's powerful command line interface and give the core of nmh the ablilty to work on other media than raw (nmh) files. It should be possible to define a suitable abstraction of a mail

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Jerry Peek
On 11 September 2000 at 1:03, Ken Hornstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just hope that the implementation can preserve most of the strengths and flexibility of nmh: it's the only email system with all this power, and it'd be sad for the de facto IMAP implementation to hobble nmh. Argh.

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Dan Harkless
Thanks, John. I presume your sending this directly to me and not to nmh-workers was an accident, as no doubt lots of people would be interested in the expanded description of your nmh/IMAP plans. John Reinhagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], also sprach "Dan

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Dan Harkless
John Reinhagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], also sprach "Dan Harkless": The last time I remember IMAP support coming up was quite awhile ago, and the commentary (from Richard Coleman??) was that IMAP support probably wouldn't be forthcoming because IMAP would

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Dan Harkless
Jerry Peek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In nmh, multiple users can share the same mail folder. Each user typically has their own private context for that shared folder stored in their own $HOME/Mail/context file. So different users can see a different view of that folder's sequences. The

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Dan Harkless
clemensF [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, your thoughts really make it clear how much potential work is here. Sounds like most of the issues arise from cache handling, though. Perhaps a first implementation could do everything live on the IMAP server. whenever making copies... that's a

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Jerry Peek
On 11 September 2000 at 15:01, "Dan Harkless" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: multiple users sharing a single nmh folder (with unique sequences) has to be a pretty darn rare situation IMO, it's rare because people these days don't think of being able to do it; they're used to GUI mail front-ends that

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Dan Harkless
Neil W Rickert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That brings up another point (perhaps a bug?) Msg-Protect: 664 (from my '.mh_profile') is ignored on "Fcc:". Thus if a folder is shared between users, messages recorded by "Fcc:" are not shareable -- they get 600 permissions, which is

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-11 Thread Ken Hornstein
IMO, it's rare because people these days don't think of being able to do it; they're used to GUI mail front-ends that don't allow (?) this kind of thing. Use an IMAP client recently? "Shared" mailboxes are already part of the IMAP specification. Most reasonable ones deal with them just fine.

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread Iain MacDonnell
"Chris Garrigues" writes: : --==_Exmh_-118578032P : Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii : : From: Iain MacDonnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:39:19 +0100 : : Jerry Peek writes: : : On 8 September 2000 at 20:05, Iain MacDonnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] w : rote: : :

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread clemensF
Ken Hornstein: I know of a few that use the storage format (one message per file, each folder a directory), but I don't think that there are any that actually use any code or tools from nmh. and what for? look at qmail maildir format: it comes without that stupid .sequence file. then

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread clemensF
Dan Harkless: Yeah, your thoughts really make it clear how much potential work is here. Sounds like most of the issues arise from cache handling, though. Perhaps a first implementation could do everything live on the IMAP server. whenever making copies... that's a generalisation of malloc

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread clemensF
John Reinhagen: Storing IMAP sequences in one's local filesystem, as Jerry Peek appears to be suggesting, is another approach, but it has problems. There are some trivial annoyances -- IMAP folders can't have the same name as local folders, for example. However, there's a more fundamental

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread John Reinhagen
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], also sprach clemensF: John Reinhagen: Storing IMAP sequences in one's local filesystem, as Jerry Peek appears to be suggesting, is another approach, but it has problems. There are some trivial annoyances -- IMAP folders can't have the same name as local

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread John Reinhagen
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], also sprach Jerry Peek: In nmh, multiple users can share the same mail folder. Each user typically has their own private context for that shared folder stored in their own $HOME/Mail/context file. So different users can see a different view of that folder's

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
1) Backward compatibility: a new, theoretical version of nmh that uses nmh should be smart enough to use old storage formats if they already exist. If we implement a new storage backend, it should be used only if the user starts using advanced features (like IMAP) that

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
Then there's the question of a "session": doesn't IMAP have the idea of "logging on" or "connecting" to an IMAP store for some period of time, and preserving the state of that session while the user is logged on? "Not really". You can have multiple simultaneous connections, and your clients

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-09 Thread John Reinhagen
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], also sprach "Dan Harkless": The last time I remember IMAP support coming up was quite awhile ago, and the commentary (from Richard Coleman??) was that IMAP support probably wouldn't be forthcoming because IMAP would probably spell the eventual death of [n]mh. I

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-08 Thread Shantonu Sen
How do IMAP's subfolders differs from nmh's, e.g. `refile +inbox/tasks'. Or are you just saying nmh's IMAP support would include IMAP's subfolders? I'm saying we have lots of options: IMAP folder on Local nmh host mail.foo.com folder - - work/

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-08 Thread Scott Blachowicz
On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 03:35:54PM +0100, Iain MacDonnell wrote: Eww, adding sequences could get complex. Whilst I suppose it might be nice for some, do we really need it? I would think so...for my part, I use the "unseen" sequence a lot. I also have a "picks" script: #!/bin/sh

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-08 Thread Iain MacDonnell
Scott Blachowicz writes: : On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 03:35:54PM +0100, Iain MacDonnell wrote: : : Eww, adding sequences could get complex. Whilst I suppose it might be nice : for some, do we really need it? : : I would think so...for my part, I use the "unseen" sequence a lot. Yeah, but unseen

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-08 Thread Jerry Peek
On 8 September 2000 at 20:05, Iain MacDonnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just saying that an IMAP imeplementation could ignore sequences except for "unseen". I haven't thought a lot about internals here... but couldn't an IMAP implementation just store its sequences in the context file (by

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-08 Thread Dan Harkless
Shantonu Sen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here are some thoughts about IMAP support in nmh. Wherever you see "should", read it as "Shantonu thinks it should": I don't know enough about IMAP to have any thoughts on some of your points, but... 2) Multiple access points: Since IMAP is based on

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-08 Thread Dan Harkless
Shantonu Sen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How do IMAP's subfolders differs from nmh's, e.g. `refile +inbox/tasks'. Or are you just saying nmh's IMAP support would include IMAP's subfolders? I'm saying we have lots of options: IMAP folder on Local nmh host mail.foo.com folder

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-08 Thread John Reinhagen
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], also sprach Iain MacDonnell: Jerry Peek writes: : On 8 September 2000 at 20:05, Iain MacDonnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : I'm just saying that an : IMAP imeplementation could ignore sequences except for "unseen". : : I haven't thought a lot about internals

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-06 Thread Ken Hornstein
The last time I remember IMAP support coming up was quite awhile ago, and the commentary (from Richard Coleman??) was that IMAP support probably wouldn't be forthcoming because IMAP would probably spell the eventual death of [n]mh. I don't recall a lot of posts disagreeing with that view, though

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-05 Thread Anders Eriksson
Are you thinking of an nmh backend to an imap server or nmh ans an imap client? I'd love to see the actual storage used in nmh 'virtualized', so we can have the same powerful command line interface and different storages (mh files, mbx, mbox, imap, ...) /Anders [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

Re: [Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-05 Thread Dan Harkless
John Reinhagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a plan to implement IMAP connectivity in nmh? If so, who's working on it and when might it be out? I haven't heard of anyone working on that, but unfortunately nmh developers often have a tendency not to announce what they're working on, so

[Fwd: Re: Questions about IMAP and sequences]

2000-09-04 Thread John Reinhagen
Good gracious, how silly of me; I forgot to put the proper -cc switch in my .mh_profile for the repl command. :) Forwarded to the mailing list, with apologies for my momentary chuckleheadedness. --- Forwarded Message To: Jerry Peek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Questions about IMAP and