Re: [nmh-workers] Unnecessary dependency on vi???

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Steffen,

> Ok, i do not have Spinellis repo locally (yet), it is too big.
> (How large is it in the end, Ralph?)

1.5 GiB.  Too large to pull home with ADSL.  I've a VM out on the
Internet that has fast connectivity and I copied it there.

But don't worry about replying after a delay.  I've nmh emails that are
months old that I still intend to process.  :-)

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

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Re: [nmh-workers] Unnecessary dependency on vi???

[valdis . kletnieks]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 18:15:08 -, Ralph Corderoy said:
> Hi Jon,
>
> > Things always get weird as one's installed distribution gets crusty.
> > My Fedora Core 27 installation
>
> What is Fedora Core 27?  :-)  Fedora 26 is the latest version, so 27
> might be Fedora Devel, but then you said it's crusty as if the 27 is a
> typo for something older, but they stopped calling it Core with Core 6,
> which is very crusty;  2006.

Fedora 26 is ancient history.. :)

[~] cat /etc/redhat-release
Fedora release 29 (Rawhide)

(Finally catching up after 2 busy weeks..)


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Re: [nmh-workers] Unnecessary dependency on vi???

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Bakul Shah  wrote:
 |On Mar 20, 2018, at 5:04 PM, Ralph Corderoy  wrote:
 |>>> mail(1) had the `~e' escape and then added a `~v' one, with VISUAL
 |>>> and EDITOR environment variables echoing the cpp(1) macro names of
 |>>> the default values.  Kurt Shoens, k...@ucbvax.berkeley.edu, is down
 |>>> as the author in BSD-1-253-gc145e9e0ab5 of
 |>>> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo.
 |>> 
 |>> BSD Mail had both of ~v and ~e from the very start.  I know of no
 |>> known released file which acted otherwise.
 |> 
 |> But peering at doc/Mail/mail3.nr in BSD-1-3-gfc8c50acc08, so just after
 |> BSD 1 was cut, I see it documents all the tilde escapes and has `~e' but
 |> no `~v'.
 |> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/fc8c50acc0870bf28753d\
 |> 3508770428682e915bb/doc/Mail/mail3.nr
 |
 |
 |This is a doc. bug! ~v is mentioned in mail7.nr in the
 |same fc8c50acc0 "commit". This has April 19, 1979 date.
 |The same as the 2bsd date on TUHS unix-archives. See my
 |previous message. ~v was already in!

It was in in 2BSD, yes.

 |> By the time of BSD-1-54-ge684660a6a2, src/Mail/Mail.help.~ lists both.
 |> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/e684660a6a291c1e46729\
 |> 12bc1b80ffb00934623/src/Mail/Mail.help.%7E
 |> 
 |> So although the released code had both, I think it's likely that `~e'
 |> was there on its own, and then `~v' added as ex's vi mode came along.
 |> I also noticed that Mail's string option was at one point `EDITOR' for one
 |> and `VISEDITOR' for the other;  also suggestive that one came first
 |> rather than both together.
 |
 |This is in mail7.nr but looking at the sources, it is 'VISUAL'
 |so I suspect this is another doc. bug (both bugs are also in
 |doc/Mail/mail{3,7}.nr in the 2bsd dist. on TUHS).
 |

Only EDITOR and VISUAL in 2BSD, yes.

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter   he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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Re: [nmh-workers] Unnecessary dependency on vi???

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Hello Ralph.

Ralph Corderoy  wrote:
 |>> mail(1) had the `~e' escape and then added a `~v' one, with VISUAL
 |>> and EDITOR environment variables echoing the cpp(1) macro names of
 |>> the default values.  Kurt Shoens, k...@ucbvax.berkeley.edu, is down
 |>> as the author in BSD-1-253-gc145e9e0ab5 of
 |>> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo.
 |>
 |> BSD Mail had both of ~v and ~e from the very start.  I know of no
 |> known released file which acted otherwise.
 |
 |But peering at doc/Mail/mail3.nr in BSD-1-3-gfc8c50acc08, so just after
 |BSD 1 was cut, I see it documents all the tilde escapes and has `~e' but
 |no `~v'.
 |https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/fc8c50acc0870bf28753d35\
 |08770428682e915bb/doc/Mail/mail3.nr
 |
 |By the time of BSD-1-54-ge684660a6a2, src/Mail/Mail.help.~ lists both.
 |https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/e684660a6a291c1e4672912\
 |bc1b80ffb00934623/src/Mail/Mail.help.%7E
 |
 |So although the released code had both, I think it's likely that `~e'
 |was there on its own, and then `~v' added as ex's vi mode came along.
 |I also noticed that Mail's string option was at one point `EDITOR' for one
 |and `VISEDITOR' for the other;  also suggestive that one came first
 |rather than both together.

Ok, i do not have Spinellis repo locally (yet), it is too big.
(How large is it in the end, Ralph?)

Looking at github i see at the same commit [1], and just in case
i do that right, that both of the `edit' and `visual' commands are
already available, so maybe ~v had only been forgotten by that
time?

  It is often useful to be able to invoke one of two editors,
  based on the type of terminal one is using.  To invoke
  a display oriented editor, you can use the
  .b visual
  command.  The operation of the
  .b visual
  command is otherwise identical to that of the
  .b edit
  command.

  [1] 
https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/fc8c50acc0870bf28753d3508770428682e915bb/doc/Mail/mail6.nr

Really a shame i do not have Spinellis repo yet.  In the repo
i only have history back to 2BSD...
Ciao,

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter   he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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Re: [nmh-workers] Unnecessary dependency on vi???

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Bakul Shah  wrote:
 |On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 23:57:28 +0700 Robert Elz  wrote:
 |Robert Elz writes:
 |> Date:Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:43:37 +0100
 |> From:Steffen Nurpmeso 
 |> Message-ID:  <20180320144337.zm2ro%stef...@sdaoden.eu>
 |> 
 |>| BSD Mail had both of ~v and ~e from the very start.  I know of no
 |>| known released file which acted otherwise.
 |> 
 |> Including in the first BSD distribution tape (1BSD) before vi existed \
 |> (also 
 |> before csh existed, but that's unrelated...) ??
 |
 |I looked at 1bsd and 2bsd distributions. I don't see Mail in
 |1bsd but it is included in 2bsd and uses VISUAL for ~v and
 |EDITOR for ~e.

No, it cannot be in 1BSD if we trust

  /*
   * Mail -- a mail program
   *
   * Author: Kurt Shoens (UCB) March 25, 1978
   */

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter   he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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