Re: [Nmh-workers] Three simple questions

2004-01-07 Thread Ken Hornstein
The savannah folks also requested that developers review their source to check against any unauthorized tampering. Has anyone done it for the nmh source? It's on my list, but that won't happen until I get back (and I probably won't get to it until Monday). --Ken

Re: [Nmh-workers] 1.1rc2 compile and slow send with aliases on Slackware linux

2004-02-02 Thread Ken Hornstein
Aliasfile: aliases is in .mh_profile, it takes about 30 seconds to send a message (using send) Could you do a system call trace (strace) on the send process? I have seen the same thing, and it looks like send is getting messed up and trying to lock some stuff in /dev (which it can't, so it

Re: [Nmh-workers] File upload frustration

2004-02-02 Thread Ken Hornstein
| Return-Path isn't - that's only intended for mail delivery, messages should | never contain one of those until they're being delivered (and anyone who | believes they should should thank any mailer that corrects them). Letting users supply return-path is both reasonable and necessary. Hm. I

Re: [Nmh-workers] File upload frustration

2004-02-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
| Hm. I did some research, and I'm going to have to side with kre on this | one. RFC 2822 clearly states: | |A message-originating SMTP system SHOULD NOT send a message that |already contains a Return-path header. That's actually 2821, I think. Whoops, you're right, my apologies. It

Re: [Nmh-workers] rfc 2822 compatability

2004-02-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
RFC 2822 no longer allows messages to have spaces before the colon in headers. (Section 4, obsolete syntax.) Should nmh enforce this? If return-path is disallowed based on a mere SHOULD NOT, then these MUST NOTs should be checked too. Jeez, a bit of sour grapes there? :-) But I will agree with

Re: [Nmh-workers] File upload frustration

2004-02-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
I believe Neil really meant to say that nmh can _only_ submit a message using SMTP. Even when it's piping to sendmail, it's not using -t, it's using -bs and speaking SMTP. The workstation doesn't have to listen on port 25 in that case, obviously. This is assuming that you haven't changed nmh to

Re: [Nmh-workers] RC3

2004-02-26 Thread Ken Hornstein
Be sure to also do step 2 from README.developers process (a ChangeLog entry to mark the release of the version in question). Good point; thanks for the pointer. Hmm. Okay, I see, /usr/include/sasl.h is the 1.5 version of the header, and /usr/include/sasl/sasl.h is the 2.1 version. I presume

Re: [Nmh-workers] RC3

2004-02-26 Thread Ken Hornstein
Yes, it should be nmh-1.1. In docs/README.developers at the end it has the process one is supposed to follow to make a release. Doing a 'make nmhdist' creates the directory with the version number and populates it with just the files that are supposed to be there (e.g. we shouldn't be

Re: [Nmh-workers] Vulnerability advisory for MIME software

2004-09-14 Thread Ken Hornstein
I maintain software package that does MIME processing, so I can pursue obtaining the test suite for my package and see if it is worth having nmh have access to the test also; assuming there is interest among nmh developers and users. I think it would be good if we had access to it. --Ken

Re: [Nmh-workers] 'repl -format' to mime-messages

2004-09-15 Thread Ken Hornstein
BTW: What is the status of nmh development? There seems to be no cvs-activity for nearly a year. Is savannah still broken? (I'm asking because I have submitted some patches for the debian package, but I start becoming concerned about diverging versions. - It's not that my fixes are a big deal, but

Re: [Nmh-workers] Nmh status - working on nmh

2004-09-16 Thread Ken Hornstein
I've been using the 1.1 code with no problems for quite a while. I was unaware that the final release has not yet happened. Hm, don't you rememeber all of the complaints about the 1.1-RC3 release distribution? Is it possible to get this done? We had trouble a few years ago with a maintainer who

Re: [Nmh-workers] gnu arch revision control system

2004-09-21 Thread Ken Hornstein
Has anyone had a look at the gnu-arch revision control system? It's highly distributed nature makes it ideal for the style of development that nmh has. Have a look at http://wiki.gnuarch.org/ It seems interesting ... but I guess I don't see any compelling reason to switch, personally. I

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh updates

2004-10-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
I just checked out the CVS so that I could fix some bugs. I noticed that there is no config.h.in or configure as part of the distribution. Anyone mind if I add those. Doing so will make the INSTALL instructions work. Or, I could change the INSTALL instructions, but I think that the first

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh updates

2004-10-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
For many projects, the Way It Is Done is to have the *.in files in the tree, and expect that anybody working with the CVS tree has the autofoo stuff installed - and autoconf/automake/etc get run just before cutting a release tarball. Is that what we *intended* to do? Yes, absolutely. And just

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh updates

2004-10-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
Well, I'll defer to the majority here and modify the INSTALL file instead. But I want to point out that this is the opposite of how just about every other package out there is done. Other packages come with configure and config.h.in so that one doesn't need autoheader and autoconf to do an

Re: [Nmh-workers] Holiday hacking project: nmh?

2004-10-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
My own little attempt to help give nmh a little nudge (the suggestion of a distributed version control system) was not met with enthusiasm. My only point in regard to this was that I don't think a distributed version control system would really change anything regarding nmh development (I never

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh updates

2004-10-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
But, since every project I've worked on winds up with weird dependancies upon the specific version of autoconf/autoheader, I think that we do a serious disservice if you can't build easily from CVS. I know what you're saying but I have to make a judgement call here. Personally I think this

Re: [Nmh-workers] Wishlist: Extracting Attachments from Email.

2004-11-23 Thread Ken Hornstein
Is this 1.1RC3, or something different (such as 1.1 final)? Look at the download area (http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/nmh/); it should be obvious. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh current development

2005-05-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
I must admit that I've not paid a lot of attention to this list in the past, so I'm hoping someone can fill me in on some details here. I submitted a few somewhat lame patches on savannah a bit over a week ago. My purpose in doing this was to test the waters a bit to see if development is as

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh current development

2005-05-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
Jerry, I don't think that this is quite right. I'm willing to take over releases if need be. Any time that I've tried to push on this in the past the current maintainer has gotten offended and promised to eventually do something. We did have a change in maintainer a few years ago, and I get the

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh current development

2005-05-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
though. I'll even stop whining about putting autoconf-generated in CVS (I'll still think that it's a huge mistake, I just won't say anything about it :-) ). do you think it's a mistake even if they're commited under non-standard names? i agree that they probably shouldn't be committed

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh current development

2005-05-12 Thread Ken Hornstein
it sounds like a couple of people have some fresh or renewed energy for making progress. given that, it would be really really great if this thread didn't die off like others like it in the past. to keep the rest of us from waiting in suspense, are ken and jon working out a new maintenance

Re: [Nmh-workers] (OT) On the road to vi... (was nmh current development)

2005-05-12 Thread Ken Hornstein
Hey guys, can we concentrate on more important things ... like making fun of all of those losers who are using mutt? :-) --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] (OT) On the road to vi... (was nmh current development)

2005-05-12 Thread Ken Hornstein
Hey guys, can we concentrate on more important things ... like making fun of all of those losers who are using mutt? :-) hey, not so fast! i was just starting to enjoy being on a list where at least one other person uses vi, and likes it... ;-) I was just (gently) point out that ragging on

Re: [Nmh-workers] Questionable code in m_chkids() in sbr/context_save.c

2005-05-17 Thread Ken Hornstein
I perhaps overstated things. Better would be that, with only one exception, I cannot think of a reason to run the mh commands setuid. I seem to recall that in some setups inc was setgid, so it could create lock files in the mail spool directory. Not the same as setuid, of course, but maybe inc

Re: [Nmh-workers] Questionable code - the bigger picture

2005-05-20 Thread Ken Hornstein
Hmmm, why don't we treat this as a software project and: 1) Do requirements gathering a) ask our customers (users) what they need b) ask parters what they need (mh-e, exmh) 2) Come up with work estimates 3) Figure out when we want to release 4) Schedule

Re: [Nmh-workers] How can we mail Jon directly?

2005-11-04 Thread Ken Hornstein
Is there somewhere we can mail you directly? When I try to mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] I get the following error: ... while talking to fourwinds.com.: DATA 550 5.0.0 Spam not spoken here 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable I know this was recently mentioned and it's a bit on the silly side that we can

Re: [Nmh-workers] exciting new stuff for 2.0

2005-12-22 Thread Ken Hornstein
Opinions? Anybody else got pet projects they want to share? I wouldn't mind taking a stab at adding IMAP support to some of the nmh tools (I guess scan show are really the important ones; I guess inc almost becomes a no-op). I think most of the nay-sayers on this one have died off or gone onto

Re: [Nmh-workers] exciting new stuff for 2.0 (IMAP proposal)

2006-01-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
If I had a need for IMAP support, I would sooner consider writing a FUSE module for an IMAP filesystem. It'd have more chance of working with scripts written around MH because non-MH commands would work. Short of a grab only mode in inc I'd be against cluttering all the nmh commands with IMAP

Re: [Nmh-workers] What is MH ? (was: exciting new stuff for 2.0 (IMAP proposal))

2006-01-09 Thread Ken Hornstein
The suggestion to make an IMAP filesystem (as linux centric as the original suggestion was) is clearly the direction that would allow MH and IMAP to work together properly. Embedding IMAP knowledge into show, next, scan, pick, refile, ... just fails to meet almost any useful objective. With all

Re: [Nmh-workers] What is MH ? (was: exciting new stuff for 2.0 (IMAP proposal))

2006-01-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
This is flamebait, shame on you. I disagree; I thought it was relatively straightforward, and not intended as flamebait at all. I have mail stored on an IMAP server. I think it's perfectly reasonable that I should be able to do scan +IMAP:inbox (or however you want to indicate that a

Re: [Nmh-workers] What is MH ? (was: exciting new stuff for 2.0 (IMAP proposal))

2006-01-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
I have mail stored on an IMAP server. I think it's perfectly reasonable that I should be able to do scan +IMAP:inbox (or however you want to indicate that a particular folder is on an IMAP server; I Why not extend that to +mbox:inbox for mbox folders? If someone wanted to do that, more power

[Nmh-workers] ADMINISTRIVIA: Change to mailing list policy

2006-03-06 Thread Ken Hornstein
Greetings all, I am announcing a change to the nmh-workers mailing list policy. Effective today, I am changing the default mailing list action for posts from non-members from hold (meaning: hold for moderator approval) to reject (you get a bounce message). I am doing this because dealing with

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: ADMINISTRIVIA: Change to mailing list policy

2006-03-07 Thread Ken Hornstein
Ken, I got mailman-discard from SourceForge, and modified it a lot. It discards the spam in bulk: mailman-discard --base http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/admin nmh-workers Hm. I looked at this script, and I guess it requires a program called curl, which I don't have. I don't think I really

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: ADMINISTRIVIA: Change to mailing list policy

2006-03-07 Thread Ken Hornstein
Just FYI: I've switched Josh to be the administrator of the three (I originally forgot about nmh-announce) mailing lists, and given him the necessary password. If you've got issues with the way the mailing list is being run, you now know who to bother :-) I admit that I didn't think anyone was

Re: [Nmh-workers] Somebody out there have a virus or something? Also release stuff.

2006-03-10 Thread Ken Hornstein
I just did a 'cvs update', and the resulting tree was lacking a config.h.in which the configure script wanted: That's created by autoconf (well, autoheader, actually). It's not in CVS for the same reason that configure is not; it's automatically generated. Just run autoheader and you'll be fine.

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: nmh homepage(s), and latest version?

2006-03-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
and, in fact, perhaps _i_ could fix it. i'm already a developer at savannah (username is pgf), so if someone (jon, ken) would like to make me a project member with the right privs, i'd be happy to take a stab at it. (but if someone else already has it in hand, that's fine.) You've been added;

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: nmh homepage(s), and latest version?

2006-03-29 Thread Ken Hornstein
i've also submitted a news item for the project page announcing that 1.2 is available (in order to supercede the 1.1-rc4 news). this item will need to be approved by someone else before it appears. It took me a while, but I finally figured out how to approve the news item. It's now visible on

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: send (smtp) problems

2006-07-06 Thread Ken Hornstein
Philipp Roessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: = 250 STARTTLS = AUTH LOGIN = 334 WXRajy5hbW3 = nGopbA== = 334 KNPzc3dasC6 = B3ObjkdpZWRbhuiYwNjA2 = 535 5.7.0 {mp036} Incorrect username or password I am assuming that these challenges are _not_ exactly what was sent, right? I ask because they

Re: [Nmh-workers] Lock gone mad

2007-04-06 Thread Ken Hornstein
Tell your vendor to rebuild the package with fcntl locking. nmh uses dot locking by default, which is pretty brain dead. Here is the option they should give configure: --with-locking=fcntl So the question becomes, is there a reason we shouldn't fix configure to use fcntl locking by default,

Re: [Nmh-workers] DWIM

2007-04-06 Thread Ken Hornstein
* Assuming the system supports links, YMMV. AFS supports links, but -link has never worked for me; it's possible, but unlikely, that my folders live on different disks and linking would therefore be akin to linking across volumes. Minor note: hard links do not work across directories in

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: 1.3 release and Dcc/Bcc behaviour

2007-04-08 Thread Ken Hornstein
My view is that not having a Message-Id in your +outbox messages is a lot more broken than having a sub-optimal Message-Id. The chance of it being broken (being non-unique) is non-zero, but damn near. So, breaking existing user's setups is a bit strong. You know, maybe I'm crazy ... but now that

Re: [Nmh-workers] Problem trying to build nmh from CVS on ubuntu fiesty

2007-04-29 Thread Ken Hornstein
/usr/bin/ld: crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory If you're missing crt1.o, then I think there is something wrong with your gcc installation. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh 1.2 failed in doing smtp authentication

2008-04-29 Thread Ken Hornstein
Ken Hornstein wrote: I wrote the nmh SASL code, and while my time is limited I would like to continue to make sure that it works. I don't suppose you have time to look at https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?9864 https://savannah.nongnu.org/patch/?5230 ? These SASL-related suggested patches have

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh 1.2 failed in doing smtp authentication

2008-04-29 Thread Ken Hornstein
This seems to work, modulo that audit: [...] Looks fine to me. The second ... yeah, that patch should be applied. Do you want to commit it or shall I? You will no doubt be able to get to it before I will, so please, go ahead. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh 1.2 failed in doing smtp authentication

2008-04-30 Thread Ken Hornstein
If you base64 decode this you'll see that the user name that nmh is sending is zhangweiwu. So it's not paying attention to the login specified in the .netrc, only to the password. I just checked in a fix for a problem which I think matches this one. Can I get you to try building the head of CVS

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh 1.2 failed in doing smtp authentication

2008-05-01 Thread Ken Hornstein
(Side note: Your site seems to think my domain name does not exist so it is refusing email from me, but I am very certain that it does. You might want to get that looked at). Hi. I didn't succeed either. This time username seems to be correct, [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/zhangweiwu$ send -watch

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh 1.2 failed in doing smtp authentication

2008-05-05 Thread Ken Hornstein
Sadly the code doesn't do this at all -- the user always comes from calling getusername(), which only does a passwd file lookup. We don't call ruserpass() (which is what reads .netrc) until sm_get_pass(), which will be after we've already sent the wrong username to the server. I'm starting to

Re: [Nmh-workers] cannot get envelop sender address correct

2008-05-06 Thread Ken Hornstein
It's always been that way. I think that we should retain the original nmh capability, just change the default build configuration. Meh. I actually think it's always been that way is kind of a lousy reason to not have a capability (and I think you have it backwards: preventing the user from

Re: [Nmh-workers] cannot get envelop sender address correct

2008-05-06 Thread Ken Hornstein
By capability, I mean this: the installer of nmh can prevent a mortal user from using masquerading. I understood what you meant by capability. My point was that what you view as a capability is, from another perspective, a limitation. There certainly are plenty of ways for mortal users to

Re: [Nmh-workers] [PATCH] Extract folder crawling from uip/folder.c

2008-08-07 Thread Ken Hornstein
On 6 August 2008 at 17:51, Eric Gillespie wrote: The goal is to call this from new.c as an alternative to the .folders file. Can someone just give Eric CVS commit access? I'd do it if I could. He's easily the most productive person working on nmh at the moment, and I worry waiting for

Re: [Nmh-workers] [PATCH] Extract folder crawling from uip/folder.c

2008-08-07 Thread Ken Hornstein
Can someone just give Eric CVS commit access? I'd do it if I could. He's easily the most productive person working on nmh at the moment, and I worry waiting for someone to apply his patches will eventually discourage him. I noticed when I logged into Savannah today that three people were

Re: [Nmh-workers] [PATCH] Extract folder crawling from uip/folder.c

2008-08-07 Thread Ken Hornstein
I can do it if someone else hasn't yet; Eric, do you have an account on Savannah? If not, can you sign up? Let us know what your userid is on savannah and we can add you. Apparently, I do: epg. You've been added. Shar and enjoy! --Ken ___

[Nmh-workers] Calling Jon Steinhart

2008-08-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
Does anyone know if Jon Steinhart is still around? On vacation? I ask because I sent him a private email related to nmh stuff a little while ago and there was no response. And if you are reading this Jon, I suspect your spam filter hates me. --Ken

[Nmh-workers] IPv6-ifying nmh

2009-01-09 Thread Ken Hornstein
I was doing some work on the smtp code for nmh, and I couldn't help noticing that it has no IPv6 support. Does anyone have any strong feelings about moving nmh to the use of getaddrinfo()/struct sockaddr_storage (and all of the associated goo for doing IPv6 support)? Can this change just be made

Re: [Nmh-workers] IPv6-ifying nmh

2009-01-09 Thread Ken Hornstein
Considering getaddrinfo() is part of POSIX, I'd say make the change. If someone wants to run nmh on something scary and old, they can run a scary and old version of nmh. As long as we're considering things for the chopping block: - RPOP? (What's RPOP? Near as I can tell, it's using POP from a

Re: [Nmh-workers] IPv6-ifying nmh

2009-01-09 Thread Ken Hornstein
I think my preference would be for switching the code to using getaddrinfo et al, and adding autoconf-shims to implement those functions in terms of the old APIs if we need to. (Cleaner than lots of ifdefs.) My only concern is that I can't easily test the autoconf shims because I don't think I

Re: [Nmh-workers] IPv6-ifying nmh

2009-01-12 Thread Ken Hornstein
A few particular corner cases to make sure we handle right: 1) IPv6 is supported, but not enabled on the system (no interfaces, not even loopback, have an IPv6 addr bound to them). I've gotten bit by this on Solaris (see http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-66-240906-1 for a

Re: [Nmh-workers] More old crap: servers entry in mts.conf

2009-01-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
Oh, more old crap the KPOP code in sbr/client.c only supports Kerberos V4. Since Kerberos V4 is way long in the tooth nowadays and nmh supports Kerberos V5 via GSSAPI and the Cyrus SASL library, as part of the general cleanup of this code I am (surprise!) proposing it get junked

Re: [Nmh-workers] More old crap: servers entry in mts.conf

2009-01-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
Yuck, embedded non-printable characters?! Please do get rid of this. I can't say it seems very useful (how hard can it be to just list the servers to try explicitly?) Actually, I believe you explicitly can put \01 in mts.conf, which gets converted to a '\01' when the file is read ... but yeah,

Re: [Nmh-workers] More old crap: servers entry in mts.conf

2009-01-13 Thread Ken Hornstein
By the way, I expect that when we do the next release we'll want to note anything that's been removed in the release notes. So when you remove features can you make sure you put a brief description of what has gone (and any alternative/workaround if applicable) into release-notes-ready text

[Nmh-workers] Updates to nmh

2009-01-15 Thread Ken Hornstein
Okay, so I've committed my changes to nmh (including a new file, pending- release-notes!). Overview: - All networking calls now converted to new APIs (getaddrinfo(), sockaddr_storage, and the like). - Everything supports IPv6 with the exception of the ftp client in ftpsbr.c. Yeah,

Re: [Nmh-workers] Updates to nmh

2009-01-16 Thread Ken Hornstein
I only took a quick glance, but I think there may be some issues with freeaddrinfo() use. For example, in sbr/client.c client() a NULL pointer can be passed to freeaddrinfo(). That doesn't work on a lot of platforms. Second, it seems memory is being leaked in that function if you get a result

Re: [Nmh-workers] New new/fn/fp/unseen program

2009-01-16 Thread Ken Hornstein
Perhaps it might be worth not committing until Ken's ipv6 stuff has settled down? I think it's settled; don't let me hold you up. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Updates to nmh

2009-01-16 Thread Ken Hornstein
Haven't investigated yet, but there's definitely a bug in there. When I try to use this version of nmh it won't let me send any mail: What now? w -- Network Recipients -- pm215 at localhost What now? s send: message not delivered to anyone So ... what MTS are you using? SMTP? Or sendmail?

Re: [Nmh-workers] Updates to nmh

2009-01-21 Thread Ken Hornstein
So ... what MTS are you using? SMTP? Or sendmail? Does -snoop tell you anything useful? I thought what I did only affected the SMTP MTS, but hey, I've been wrong before. I use mts:sendmail (this is the Debian package default and generally what I recommend people use because (a) nmh's SMTP

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: big thanks

2009-01-25 Thread Ken Hornstein
It would be nice if nmh supported SMTP/TLS. I think it is more in danger of becoming obsolete in not staying up-to-date with later secure mail transit protocols and other mail standards versus the age of its users. Well, someone just needs to write the code. I wrote the POP SASL and SMTP AUTH

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: big thanks

2009-01-26 Thread Ken Hornstein
It would be nice if nmh supported SMTP/TLS. Well, someone just needs to write the code. Unfortunately, I did a quick look at the nmh code to see what it may take to add TLS support using OpenSSL. It did not look it would be a trivial task. May require a considerable rewriting and/or

Re: [Nmh-workers] Updates to nmh

2009-01-27 Thread Ken Hornstein
Actually, I'd find full MX'ing support a useful feature in nmh and most MUAs. Today, there is no way to know that a mail has been delivered to the recipient , or a designated box of his choosing. You always have to send via a outgoing mail relay of some sort. :-( An example, if you're in a

Re: [Nmh-workers] how to have Date: header field added to message when posting mail directly via SMTP ?

2009-03-18 Thread Ken Hornstein
jeff.hod...@kingsmountain.com said: how to have Date: header field added to message when posting mail directly via SMTP ? http://groups.google.com/group/comp.mail.mh/browse_thread/thread/ 387d34326a6db928# Reading rfc2822, section 3.6, it says: The only required header fields are the

Re: [Nmh-workers] (fwd) [Savannah-announce] New recovery process

2009-06-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
unless anyone's done nmh work since the 27th, it seems like maybe we don't need to do anything at all. Yeah, nmh development has been ... slow ... lately. I think we're fine. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org

Re: [Nmh-workers] imap support, and portability

2009-10-14 Thread Ken Hornstein
Fuse is a major step forward for UNIX-like systems. But Fuse can never be as portable as a conforming POSIX application. MH has always been able to compile on anything even remotely resembling UNIX. Tying it to a very implementation-specific API like this would negate nearly 30 years of

Re: [Nmh-workers] imap support, and portability

2009-10-14 Thread Ken Hornstein
I twisted up a crude proof-of-concept implementation about 10 years ago. I did it solely to get an idea of how much work it would be to do a full-on implementation. This was against MH 6.3, and done while I was considering giving 6.3 a complete overhaul to ANSIfy the code and clean out all the

Re: [Nmh-workers] [BHST] no servers available problem

2010-01-18 Thread Ken Hornstein
I've used nmh for a long time. This problem coincided with Verizon connecting me to DSL (previously I used dialup). Suddenly, outgoing mail didn't work. Incoming works, web, ftp, telnet are fine. Um, wow ... you used dialup for _how_ long? :-) But seriously ... I am 99% sure that the issue is

Re: [Nmh-workers] Verizon DSL block

2010-01-21 Thread Ken Hornstein
Recently I switched from dialup to DSL. Incoming mail, browser, ftp, telnet all work fine. But outgoing mail gets the error: What now? send post: problem initializing server; [BHST] no servers available send: message not delivered to anyone Umm ... I replied to the earlier version of this

Re: [Nmh-workers] Verizon DSL block

2010-01-22 Thread Ken Hornstein
Is authentication required? Just changing the port does little to deter spam since spammers can adapt. I would assume that the port change also comes with the requirement that you must specify your username and password. The port 25 block is pretty much standard for large ISPs today; it's to

Re: [Nmh-workers] Verizon DSL block

2010-01-22 Thread Ken Hornstein
The port 25 block is pretty much standard for large ISPs today; it's to prevent spammers from using massive networks of compromised PCs to deliver spam. Changing ports is useless unless authentication is required. If deterring spammers is the primary goal, then ISPs can just require

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh @ gsoc?

2010-01-25 Thread Ken Hornstein
Have you thought about applying for Google Summer of Code 2010? If you do, I am interessted in working on an nmh task. We have not ... but that might be worth doing, actually. I see one big hurdle - nmh doesn't really have a mentoring organization so to speak. If someone wants to set that up,

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh @ gsoc?

2010-01-25 Thread Ken Hornstein
On an daily basis I'm using large swathes of code that haven't been touched in years, or even a decade. They stopped developing it because it works. Even five or ten years later. I've seen this in some cases ... but many times it's rather special-purpose code. I don't see it that much in what

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh @ gsoc?

2010-01-25 Thread Ken Hornstein
c) outgoing SMTP/SUBMIT authentication support, TLS Done! (Except for the TLS part, though). nmh has had this for years, via Cyrus-SASL. Also supports encryption if the SASL mechanism supports it. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list

Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh @ gsoc?

2010-01-26 Thread Ken Hornstein
A big advantage of nmh's code stability is that it provides a natural place to stop. Should we consider starting with a clean slate? An extensible architecture and modern language would make enhancements and maintenance much easier. And safer, e.g., nmh still uses mktemp because replacement is

Re: should nmh be an MTA or an MUA? (Was: Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh @ gsoc?)

2010-01-27 Thread Ken Hornstein
Have we not beaten this subject into the ground yet? Here's where we differ. For me, it's easier to configure sendmail, so that the nmh configuration remains the same in any network environment. Alright ... so, my answer to this is: So what? Yes, it's easier for _you_. Great. But that doesn't

[Nmh-workers] Google SoC

2010-01-27 Thread Ken Hornstein
So, to keep everyone in the loop ... I have asked the NetBSD board if they are willing to act as a mentoring organization for nmh. I will keep everyone posted as to their response. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: should nmh be an MTA or an MUA?

2010-01-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
History may have been bad. However, it may teach very important lessons. One should never ignore it, but one should go new ways if appropriate. Okay ... so, what, you're just dismissing my point here with some vague oh, all that stuff people did before, it might be wrong? And as for it being

Re: [Nmh-workers] external MTA (was: nmh @ gsoc?)

2010-01-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
Instead of having one program inside nmh to forward, use one external program to forward. The external program will surely do the job better than the internal one. (Do you need reasons for this statement?) Actually, you're going to have to provide some reasons ... I looked at the examples you

Re: [Nmh-workers] external MTA (was: nmh @ gsoc?)

2010-01-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
We have several graphical MUAs that sit on top of it, and I'd like to see more of them, not fewer. I do not want thunderbird and all the like to have to reinvent everything. The problem I see is that if part of your GUI configuration involves setting up a local email forwarder ... well, kinda

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: should nmh be an MTA or an MUA?

2010-01-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
There are some organizations where all network traffic must be encrypted, and if MUAs are to submit to a central MTA for delivery, nmh would need TLS support to do this. Minor correction: nmh can do this already, _if_ the SASL mechanism supports encryption (we have that requirement, and we use

Re: should nmh be an MTA or an MUA? (Was: Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh @ gsoc?)

2010-01-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
The problem, as I see it, is limited resources for maintaining and enhancing nmh, as evidenced by the slow pace of development. The question that's being posed is where it is best to spend those limited resources. I suggest that adding MTA functions into nmh which already exist in external

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: should nmh be an MTA or an MUA?

2010-01-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
can someone remind me why this is so? (i.e., the use of -bs mode?) I am guessing (I do not know for sure) that the original designers didn't want to have to duplicate code and they figured since the -bs mode would allow them to reuse the SMTP code, that's what they went with. Note that I have

Re: should nmh be an MTA or an MUA? (Was: Re: [Nmh-workers] nmh @ gsoc?)

2010-01-28 Thread Ken Hornstein
I think the difficulty may depending on the TLS library to use. When I looked at years ago wrt openssl, it appeared to me that the work require rewriting I/O stuff in nmh. Of course, I was not an expert at the time, but I did not see a quick fix to the problem. Recently (post-1.3) I made a bunch

[Nmh-workers] Google SoC, part deux

2010-01-29 Thread Ken Hornstein
So, I heard back from the NetBSD Board. In a nutshell: they turned me down. The reason they gave was that there are a limited number of slots available as part of the SoC, and if nmh got one of those slots assigned to NetBSD, that would take away from a SoC project that benefited NetBSD ... and

Re: [Nmh-workers] Re: should nmh be an MTA or an MUA?

2010-01-29 Thread Ken Hornstein
If popularity is the goal, then my answer to this is a resolute NO. I guess I see a wide range of possibilities between popular and dead. MH has filled a niche outside the mass market of MUAs since its inception. What it does, it does well. What it doesn't, it doesn't well. That's not a bad

Re: [Nmh-workers] Alternative method for supporting TLS and latest patch set

2010-02-01 Thread Ken Hornstein
It tooks some reading thru the docs, but I did get it to work. Delegate runs as a real proxy server with protocol awareness, so nmh using smtp mode can be used with it. To get complete, expected functionality, modifications to nmh was required, mainly with whom.c so it can support the -port

Re: [Nmh-workers] Alternative method for supporting TLS and latest patch set

2010-02-02 Thread Ken Hornstein
I'm unsure what the policy is for how stable the trunk is supposed to be, so I hesitant to check in what I have done. I'm with Peter; we don't really have any formal policy as to the stability of HEAD. I've committed code that broke HEAD; it wasn't intentional, and I fixed it as soon as I was

Re: [Nmh-workers] cleaning out the cobwebs

2010-11-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
Separate from the above, I would like to see as much as the pre-Posix gratuitous stuff removed from sbr. It's fine with me if going forward, new versions of nmh only run on Posix-compatible systems. I too am a hater of autoconf/automake; I like elegance, not the ugliest sledgehammer in

Re: [Nmh-workers] cleaning out the cobwebs

2010-11-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
While I'm not particularly in love with autoconf or automake, my response to people who say that they hate autoconf is: what do you propose we use instead? The POSIX standard. Everything MH needs in the way of APIs is provided by POSIX. By coding to POSIX we eliminate the need for autoconf

Re: [Nmh-workers] cleaning out the cobwebs

2010-11-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
It's also long overdue to clean up the SMTP client code to bring it into line with the current port 587 submission regime. That code has pretty much been done (18 months ago). At least the part that lets you set a different port to use, which was the bulk of the code. We might have some protocol

Re: [Nmh-workers] cleaning out the cobwebs

2010-11-03 Thread Ken Hornstein
To me, that's Linux. I don't know is nmh gets enough usage on Apple or Microsoft systems to be worth any special effort. Don't think that it needs to work on Android or Chrome or iOS either. But, that's my opinion. Can we come to a concensus on the important target systems? Just as a note, I

Re: [Nmh-workers] cleaning out the cobwebs

2010-11-04 Thread Ken Hornstein
i strongly suggest that KPOP not be deprecated unless you can prove there are no sites using Kerberized POP. (Hint - i know the answer) Let me speak up a bit regarding that. If you want to do Kerberos authentication via POP, there are two ways: a protocol which has generally been known as KPOP,

Re: [Nmh-workers] cleaning out the cobwebs

2010-11-08 Thread Ken Hornstein
If you see any code which has an #ifdef KPOP, rip it out! There are few left in the 1.3 source: sbr/client.c:28: #ifdef KPOP [...] Yeah, I didn't go through and purge all of the KPOP code. Were you talking about the CVS head? Yeah. --Ken ___

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