Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[Cyber]

> Hi Cyber,
>
> Do you know your email to the list had three `from' headers?
>
> From: =3D?UTF-8?B?zrs=3D?=3D 
> From: Ruben de Bruin 
> From: Cyber 
>

Yes I had already seen that. It was an accident. Sorry.

> I can tell it meant a lot of list subscribers didn't receive your email
> due to rejections pointing at RFC 5322.

I did not know that. Thanks.

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Cyber,

Do you know your email to the list had three `from' headers?

From: =?UTF-8?B?zrs=?= 
From: Ruben de Bruin 
From: Cyber 

I can tell it meant a lot of list subscribers didn't receive your email
due to rejections pointing at RFC 5322.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Norm,

> The same. But I assumed that the message had more content that I'm not
> smart enough to access. I also tried mhshow and mhlist.

No, it's not there.  You're seeing everything.
Ask your correspondent if they know they sent an `empty' email.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[norm]

David Levine  writes:
>> What worked for me just making your message the current message
>> and then typing
>> mhstore
>>
>> When I did that nmh automatically saved part 1 and 2 in the
>> current directory and part 2 (which you care about) in my inbox.
>
>Just using "show" on the message works for me.  What does it
>produce for you, Norm?

The same. But I assumed that the message had more content that I'm not
smart enough to access. I also tried mhshow and mhlist.

Norman Shapiro

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[David Levine]

> What worked for me just making your message the current message
> and then typing
> mhstore
>
> When I did that nmh automatically saved part 1 and 2 in the
> current directory and part 2 (which you care about) in my inbox.

Just using "show" on the message works for me.  What does it
produce for you, Norm?

David

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[λ]

What worked for me just making your message the current message
and then typing
mhstore

When I did that nmh automatically saved part 1 and 2 in the
current directory and part 2 (which you care about) in my inbox.

> --- =_aa0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-ID: <6259.152794941...@nad.dad.org>
>
> Would some kind soul please tell me how to read the attached.
> Norman Shapiro
>
> --- =_aa0
> Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="40"
> Content-Description: 40
> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="40"
>
> Return-Path: 
> X-Original-To: norm@localhost
> Delivered-To: n...@localhost.dad.org
> Received: from nad.dad.org (localhost [IPv6:::1])
>   by nad.dad.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA64240450
>   for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 08:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on mail1.rawbw.com
> X-Spam-Level: 
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 
> tests=AWL,FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,
>   FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
>   autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1
> Received: from imap.rawbw.com [198.144.192.43]
>   by nad.dad.org with IMAP (fetchmail-6.3.17)
>   for  (single-drop); Mon, 28 May 2018 08:50:33 -0700 
> (PDT)
> Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com 
> (mail-oln040092003011.outbound.protection.outlook
.com [40.92.3.11])
>   by mail1.rawbw.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id w4SFkg8m062460
>   for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 08:46:47 -0700 (PDT)
>   (envelope-from chavolin1...@hotmail.com)
> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com;
>  s=selector1;
>  
> h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck;
>  bh=LfQST+c7U9oSxzsvIN4UVA8sUyv6T/C8Jb0cQ/xmhaM=;
>  
> b=j/gKNY5nMgLIy7v2obBOZLzLYm12y4bagjybNTRcrNVAmlUwGqyWw2LHQ65SFyAJ+a8EatoEkbjaytKhh+7JgcYubUcuCogJQMXdwg7WLHy
afKsLDL4jgvyO6n8kve48EmBkD5SQjV5KOxBKaG9jTeqhMx2rNLYD+7wD4bSEF7zhPcg6E9+cAqc4/YGwv0eDdxao8qb0vQ1qYPlU7Xo2vOyKtS/
EYY5P1EzMCU15W1p0wd0sdSH0px4NSPAOkdCIUq6k7xV/7ClAI2Ra9PawxgoczYlqKwG7giulEYPigyRW80gOwQTJ1wwJNASmOxvU+3tcdH7vyTk
/RbKeFRr6Nw==
> Received: from BL2NAM02FT024.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com
>  (10.152.76.54) by BL2NAM02HT198.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com
>  (10.152.76.209) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2,
>  cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.755.15; Mon, 28
>  May 2018 15:46:40 +
> Received: from CY4PR19MB0039.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (10.152.76.60) by
>  BL2NAM02FT024.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.77.62) with Microsoft SMTP
>  Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id
>  15.20.820.8 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 28 May 2018 15:46:40 +
> Received: from CY4PR19MB0039.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
>  ([fe80::a020:5937:faca:eb23]) by CY4PR19MB0039.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
>  ([fe80::a020:5937:faca:eb23%3]) with mapi id 15.20.0797.017; Mon, 28 May 2018
>  15:46:40 +
> From: Nicolas Miramontes 
> To: "n...@dad.org" 
> Subject: Re: Grounding of my house
> Thread-Topic: Grounding of my house
> Thread-Index: AQHT9psRLD2PApbT4U6RLJZoBg12Gw==
> Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 15:46:40 +
> Message-ID: 
> 
> Accept-Language: en-US
> Content-Language: en-US
> X-MS-Has-Attach: 
> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
> x-clientproxiedby: MWHPR20CA0029.namprd20.prod.outlook.com
>  (2603:10b6:300:ed::15) To CY4PR19MB0039.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
>  (2603:10b6:910:7e::11)
> x-incomingtopheadermarker: 
> OriginalChecksum:E9A43D2B9287B258D8FE72CF706F9324D7BFA28B1DF7EBA85485638B221B68B6;U
pperCasedChecksum:7C2D92443E5B40370638FC31D2779E9A588AAC03EF129044D37A7F8130A0D673;SizeAsReceived:7271;Count:47
> x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
> x-tmn: [KVCzQhbpM1VrMChrg24gCE2scav95MRjyG9FKSuJ7IoATUN6GIpGtrH6zJvnySpw]
> x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
> x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 
> 1;BL2NAM02HT198;7:enp6cGGp0HKTG+fVuMAqkFPT/RMiMUN9ry1f8RB6oyOp1GL0wgTUF1sL2t
uy1Rq4KzAwJJ2yhvbvCmXtDuLcRdnyj1LRZqyaFmkC4MknhOD5e5QaMCO1WkUOJnwmceSethEtqzKXLZOfb454wG3ITKpjSuDb9pvSbGT7vdzgh9
ipN0SsVfVxzotPRqd4iGpnc2WPCeU2EunCw6MGm6URVgSdJmH3O1LXYSTK2RuvKZzCemMgonrV4dJnZXzyDmtp
> x-incomingheadercount: 47
> x-eopattributedmessage: 0
> x-microsoft-antispam: 
> UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(7020095)(201702061078)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(
2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1601125466)(1603101448)(1701031045);SRVR:BL2NAM02HT1
98;
> x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL2NAM02HT198:
> x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: 
> BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(44431);SRVR:BL2NAM02HT198;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRV
R:BL2NAM02HT198;
> x-forefront-prvs: 06860EDC7B
> x-forefront-antispam-report: 
> SFV:NSPM;SFS:(7070007)(199004)(189003)(486006)(476003)(2351001)(2501003)(46003)(6
436002)(97736004)(104016004)(290011)(348074)(6916009)(82202002)(229853002)(525012)(70282004)(2046050

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[David Levine]

Ralph wrote:

> I was listing `the email you've attached'.  :-)

Oh, yes :-]  I get the same output from mhlist as you on that email.

> I took that as being Norm's outgoing email, that we didn't see, and the
> correspondent replied, quoting Norm, but added nothing other than the
> top-posting disclaimer about using a mobile.

That could explain the evidence.

David

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi David,

> > The email you've attached has little in it.
...
> > 8711   multipart/alternative 2616
> >  1 text/html 1118
> >  2 text/plain 451
>
> Odd, I get:
...
> 4681   multipart/mixed   9200
>  1 text/plain  81
>  2 message/rfc8228634 40
>  3 text/plain  70

I was listing `the email you've attached'.  :-)

> # Recently, a Comcast repairman fixed a cable outside my house.

I took that as being Norm's outgoing email, that we didn't see, and the
correspondent replied, quoting Norm, but added nothing other than the
top-posting disclaimer about using a mobile.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[David Levine]

Ralph wrote:

> The email you've attached has little in it.
>
> $ mhlist -nov
>  msg part  type/subtype  size description
> 8711   multipart/alternative 2616
>  1 text/html 1118
>  2 text/plain 451
> $

Odd, I get:

$ mhlist -nov
 msg part  type/subtype  size description
4681   multipart/mixed   9200
 1 text/plain  81
 2 message/rfc8228634 40
 3 text/plain  70

mhfixmsg didn't do anything significant to it.

Anyway, the content is in part 2 is:

# Recently, a Comcast repairman fixed a cable outside my house. He
# commented that he thought that my house was not properly grounded,
# and that I should have it checked. Do you know how to do that?

If the Comcast repairman is referring to electrical ground, then
a qualified electrician should be consulted.  But I don't know if
that's what was meant.

David

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Norm,

> Would some kind soul please tell me how to read the attached.

The email you've attached has little in it.

$ mhlist -nov
 msg part  type/subtype  size description
8711   multipart/alternative 2616
 1 text/html 1118
 2 text/plain 451
$ 

These three show the raw text, HTML, and formatted HTML.

mhstore -noverbose -prefer text/plain -outfile -
mhstore -noverbose -prefer text/html -outfile -
mhstore -noverbose -prefer text/html -outfile - | lynx -dump -stdin

They all suggest Nicolas hit reply and send without adding anything
other than his top-posted, automatic, `Sent from my...'.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

-- 
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] help me out with mime/base64/gpg please

[David Levine]

hymie wrote:

> But it seems like there is something I'm missing, that will enable
> mhshow to say "Oh, base64 and pgp-encrypted.  I should use the
> 'gpg2 -d %F | less' command to show this part"

Here are some pieces, in addition to gpg-agent, that might help:

1) I think you're looking for this kind of profile entry, as described in
the mhshow(1) man page:

mhshow-show-application/octet-stream: [ %{name} = encrypted.asc ] &&
  gpg2 -d %F || echo cannot display %a

If it gets more complicated, maybe put the real work into a script
and call that.  Also, multiple profile entries would be needed if
application/octet-stream isn't the only way to identify this type of
content.

2) Something like this might be useful:

mhstore -noverbose -type application/pgp-encrypted -outfile -

For your example, it just extracts the PGP version to stdout, but again
I'm not sure how general that Content-Type is.

3) The mhshow -notextonly and -noinlineonly switches will probably be
necessary.

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] help me out with mime/base64/gpg please

[Ken Hornstein]

>> normally for encrypted email you'd need to enter in your password to
>> unlock your private key and we don't really have a good mechanism for
>> that currently.
>
>There's a gpg-agent(1);  it's kicked off as needed by gpg(1) these days
>AIUI.  I've not used it, but I assume it works similarly to ssh-agent in
>that you ssh-add(1) a key once, authenticating, and it dishes out the
>necessary as and when.  That's how us cool kids SSH willy-nilly about
>the Internets without entering passwords.

I am aware of that, but the programs I'm aware of that are like us (tty
based programs) and use GPG successfully are more tightly integrated
and use --status-fd and --batch.  But maybe we should consider using
GPGME, which is what the authors of GPG REALLY want MUAs to use.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] help me out with mime/base64/gpg please

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Ken,

> normally for encrypted email you'd need to enter in your password to
> unlock your private key and we don't really have a good mechanism for
> that currently.

There's a gpg-agent(1);  it's kicked off as needed by gpg(1) these days
AIUI.  I've not used it, but I assume it works similarly to ssh-agent in
that you ssh-add(1) a key once, authenticating, and it dishes out the
necessary as and when.  That's how us cool kids SSH willy-nilly about
the Internets without entering passwords.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] "-help" arguments

[David Levine]

Norm wrote:

> David Levine  writes:
> >
> >> I wonder if, for 1.7, that simple syntax and semantics could be guaranteed?
> >> That way, it would be possible for *proc commands to be always uptodate.
> >
> >I'm not sure how.  For example, if a new switch is added, its mere
> >existence wouldn't be enough to let a *proc writer know whether or
> >how to use it.
>
> But for most *procs and most proc writers won't it usually be the case
> that he doesn't want to use it per se, but just to know that it might
> be there and how many arguments it takes so that he can ignore it?

I'm still now sure how "it would be possible for *proc commands to
be always uptodate."  My only suggestion would be to parse the -help
output as you'd like, even though there's no guarantee that it won't
change some day.  You can detect that, too.

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] "-help" arguments

[norm]

David Levine  writes:
>Norm wrote:
>
>> I observe that, ignoring all lines not beginning with exactly two ' '
>> characters, the outputs of nmh's commands' -help, seem to be extremely
>> regular and simple.
>
>Yes, because they're generated from the switch definitions in the code
>of each program.
>
>> I wonder if, for 1.7, that simple syntax and semantics could be guaranteed?
>> That way, it would be possible for *proc commands to be always uptodate.
>
>I'm not sure how.  For example, if a new switch is added, its mere
>existence wouldn't be enough to let a *proc writer know whether or
>how to use it.

But for most *procs and most proc writers won't it usually be the case
that he doesn't want to use it per se, but just to know that it might
be there and how many arguments it takes so that he can ignore it?

I admit that I've written exactly one proc, a postproc. But for it, that
would be the case.

Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] "-help" arguments

[David Levine]

Norm wrote:

> I observe that, ignoring all lines not beginning with exactly two ' '
> characters, the outputs of nmh's commands' -help, seem to be extremely
> regular and simple.

Yes, because they're generated from the switch definitions in the code
of each program.

> I wonder if, for 1.7, that simple syntax and semantics could be guaranteed?
> That way, it would be possible for *proc commands to be always uptodate.

I'm not sure how.  For example, if a new switch is added, its mere
existence wouldn't be enough to let a *proc writer know whether or
how to use it.  It might help if a switch is removed, but that's
happened how many times in the history of MH and nmh?  And, the
*proc writer would likely have to do more than just notice that it
was removed.

> This would probably require no code changes -- just a line or three in the
> mh-profile man page.

But, it would add an interface that we would have to preserve.
I'm against doing that unless there's a benefit.  In this case, I
don't think there is one.  *proc's just aren't that well defined
(and I don't think this is a good place to start/continue), so the
writer sometimes has to know more than what's explicit in the
documentation already.

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[Ken Hornstein]

>But I would like to humbly suggest a new man page, something like nmh-advice.
>It would contain a lot of advice which, right now is scattered over
>hundreds of Emails. It would, over the years, grow gradually. It
>would it be preferable to burdening already burdened existing
>man pages.

I hear you, and I understand where you're coming from ... I mean, some
of these MH configurations have been sitting around for decades, literally.
As things have changed (hopefully for the better) it's hard to sometimes
know about the new stuff; this is a problem we've been struggling with
for a while.

But your problem was a bit interesting - at first, it was mail disappearing.
Drilling down to the "real" reason was a bit of a stretch.

I have thought about writing an nmh-intro(8) man page to lay out the basic
configuration steps for a new setup.  How to configure your email address,
how to send and receive email, those kind of things.

>I want to make absolutely sure that I understand you. You are suggesting
>that, having put the line
>
>   Local-Mailbox: n...@dad.org
>
>into my ~/.mh_profile
>
>I change every occurrence of "n...@dad.org" to "%(localmbox)".
>Correct?

_In your various component files_, yes.  Before you send a draft you can
see if it worked properly.

That way if you ever change your email address, you can change it in
just one place.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Norm,

> Why did I ignore your advice? I don't remember. But I would conjecture
> that it was some combination of not understanding the advice, not
> understanding its context, or not believing that its context was
> relevant to me.

If it's like me with most of the "do this for the new version" advice on
here, it's two years' premature as I was on an old release for a lot
longer.  I suppose the release notes should be re-read as one's software
upgrades.  http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/nmh.git/tree/NEWS

> But I would like to humbly suggest a new man page, something like
> nmh-advice.  It would contain a lot of advice which, right now is
> scattered over hundreds of Emails. It would, over the years, grow
> gradually. It would it be preferable to burdening already burdened
> existing man pages.

I think this overlaps with the recent discussion about how to start with
nmh.  Most of us have so much clutter collected over the years, ~/bin
scripts sitting in front of the real nmh commands, .mh_profile stuff
that's now the default, or overrides what would be a better default.  I
was thinking of moving all my stuff aside, or creating a new temporary
user account, just to start with a clean slate and find out what needs
adding to do things the "new" nmh way.

Perhaps nmh(7) is the place to add what initial configuration is
advised.

Cheers, Ralph.

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[norm]

Ken Hornstein  writes:
>>I don't have a distcomps in my nmh directory (~/Mail). So I'm getting the
>>default. Should I have a ~/Mail/distcomps ? If so what should it be.
>
>I've tried in the past to gently suggest to everyone that setting

Yes, you have; going back to at least March 25 2014. Why did I
ignore your advice? I don't remember. But I would conjecture that
it was some combination of not understanding the advice, not understanding
its context, or not believing that its context was relevant to me.

But I would like to humbly suggest a new man page, something like nmh-advice.
It would contain a lot of advice which, right now is scattered over
hundreds of Emails. It would, over the years, grow gradually. It
would it be preferable to burdening already burdened existing
man pages.

>Local-Mailbox in your .mh_profile is vastly preferable to modifying
>individual component files ... for this exact reason (also, it's used
>for other things you may not realize).  So I would personally do that.

I just did that, and it seems to have cured one of my dist problems. Thank
you.

>Also, I'd personally change every instance of your email address in
>your existing customized component files to %(localmbox) ... that would
>make a lot more sense in the long run.

I want to make absolutely sure that I understand you. You are suggesting
that, having put the line

   Local-Mailbox: n...@dad.org

into my ~/.mh_profile

I change every occurrence of "n...@dad.org" to "%(localmbox)".
Correct?

Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[Ken Hornstein]

>I don't have a distcomps in my nmh directory (~/Mail). So I'm getting the
>default. Should I have a ~/Mail/distcomps ? If so what should it be.

I've tried in the past to gently suggest to everyone that setting
Local-Mailbox in your .mh_profile is vastly preferrable to modifying
individual component files ... for this exact reason (also, it's used
for other things you may not realize).  So I would personally do that.

Also, I'd personally change every instance of your email address in
your existing customized component files to %(localmbox) ... that would
make a lot more sense in the long run.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Norm,

> I don't have a distcomps in my nmh directory (~/Mail). So I'm getting
> the default. Should I have a ~/Mail/distcomps ? If so what should it
> be.

As Ken implied in replying to me, Local-Mailbox in mh_profile(5) is
another option.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[norm]

Ralph Corderoy  writes:
>Hi Norm,
>
>Ken wrote:
>> But I am wondering if perhaps the problem is this:
>>
>> >=> MAIL FROM:
>
>I suspect it is.  dist(1) gets this "wrong" for me here, too.
>
>$ fmttest -raw -forma '%(localmbox)' ''
>Ralph Corderoy 
>$

Here is what I get:

~/Words  fmttest -raw -forma '%(localmbox)' ''
norm 
~/Words


Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[Ken Hornstein]

>I suspect it is.  dist(1) gets this "wrong" for me here, too.
>
>$ fmttest -raw -forma '%(localmbox)' ''
>Ralph Corderoy 

Well, isn't that kind of your fault? :-)  Single line setting in your
.mh_profile.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[norm]

Ken Hornstein  writes:
>>When I do a dist, the message goes to a /dev/null somewhere. I don't
>>know if the problem is with my MH setup or somewhere else. Here is one
>>attempt to use dist:
>>[...]
>>Ken Hornstein never Emailed me. So he likely never got the Email. Nor
>>did several others to whom I have tried to dist.
>
>Weeelll ... in my case I get a lot of spam, so I might have deleted it.
>But I think I would have remembered that messsage.
>
>It looks like to me that message made it to your SMTP server, so technically
>nmh is out of the way.  But I am wondering if perhaps the problem is this:
>
>>=> MAIL FROM:
>
>I see your other messages use n...@dad.org as the envelope from.  nad.dad.org
>doesn't exist in the global DNS, so spam filters might reject it.  And
>you wouldn't get the bounce message either.


I don't have a distcomps in my nmh directory (~/Mail). So I'm getting the
default. Should I have a ~/Mail/distcomps ? If so what should it be.

By the way, David Levine did get my dist, though others, including apparently
you, do not.

Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Norm,

Ken wrote:
> But I am wondering if perhaps the problem is this:
>
> >=> MAIL FROM:

I suspect it is.  dist(1) gets this "wrong" for me here, too.

$ fmttest -raw -forma '%(localmbox)' ''
Ralph Corderoy 
$

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[Ken Hornstein]

>When I do a dist, the message goes to a /dev/null somewhere. I don't
>know if the problem is with my MH setup or somewhere else. Here is one
>attempt to use dist:
>[...]
>Ken Hornstein never Emailed me. So he likely never got the Email. Nor
>did several others to whom I have tried to dist.

Weeelll ... in my case I get a lot of spam, so I might have deleted it.
But I think I would have remembered that messsage.

It looks like to me that message made it to your SMTP server, so technically
nmh is out of the way.  But I am wondering if perhaps the problem is this:

>=> MAIL FROM:

I see your other messages use n...@dad.org as the envelope from.  nad.dad.org
doesn't exist in the global DNS, so spam filters might reject it.  And
you wouldn't get the bounce message either.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: dist is not working for me

[David Levine]

Norm wrote:

> When I do a dist, the message goes to a /dev/null somewhere. I don't know
> if the problem is with my MH setup or somewhere else.

I don't see why the message wouldn't have been delivered.  The -snoop
output shows that your STMP server accepted it.

> Ken Hornstein never Emailed me. So he likely never got the Email. Nor
> did several others to whom I have tried to dist.

Maybe unfortunate coincidence?

If you want to try sending me emails now, I'll let you know if they
arrive.  I'd try one with send and one with dist.

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ken Hornstein]

>X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.rawbw.com: Host m206-54.dsl.tsoft.com
>[198.144.206.54] claimed to be nad.dad.org

I am personally skeptical that email providers really notice this line.
But hey, maybe they do.

>Usually, this does not cause a problem. But some recipients reject my
>Email. I think because of that line. The attachment, 20, to this Email
>illustrates the problem.

If it's because they think it's spam, maybe that adds to the spam score.
But ...

>Another problem, or perhaps the same problem, is with Red Hat Support,
>which at some point stopped accepting my Email, though they had been
>accepting it.  The attachment 19, illustrates this.

It looks like the problem with Red Hat is that they don't recognize your
email address anymore.  That ... does not seem like a problem with your
email setup at all.  I think the only solution is to call them or contact
them out-of-band and try to resolve the problem.

However, to solve your original problem ... you can use the not-well-known
option "clientname" in your mts.conf, like this:

clientname: m206-54.dsl.tsoft.com

Although that might not be so great if that name changes all of the time.
Also, it seems that there is an undocumented -client switch to send/post
to set the SMTP client name, if you want to test things out.  Use the
-snoop flag to send if you want to see what's going on.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: Sent too big a file, now I am getting an infinite stream

[norm]

David Levine levin...@acm.org writes:
Norm wrote:

 Now I am getting an infinite stream of messages like the attached.
 How do I stop the stream.  This happened to me once before.

Stop postfix?

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2013-02/msg00022.html

Would Fcc: instead of cc: norm prevent the infinite loop?
send -msgid along with Fcc: provides a concise but useful copy
of the message.

Yes, as before, stopping postfix, and then restarting a little later worked
fine.

BUT how did you find the old thread so easily??

Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help! Beginning of Messages snipped off

[norm]

Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com writes:


I will note preSend contains a bunch of NUL characters on the last line;
we probably do poorly with that (and are not valid in email).


In the unlikely event that anybody cares, the nuls were inserted by a bug in
norms-cool-editor. The bug was exercised by a script I wrote, to convert
quotedPrintable. As it happens, no other script exercised that bug.

Again, thank you your help.

Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help! Beginning of Messages snipped off

[Ken Hornstein]

I am having a problem with one one particular correspondent. When I reply
to his messages, the beginning of the body of my messages is snipped off.

As an example, I am attaching:

[...]
   preSend: My draft before I sent it.
   afterSend: What get sent

These two ... do not seem to line up?  Specifically, afterSend contains
lines that do not appear in preSend:

This is line 4 of my reply.
This is line 5 of my reply.

I'm willing to believe we might be eating lines somewhere, but I have a
hard time believing we're inserting them :-)

I will note preSend contains a bunch of NUL characters on the last line;
we probably do poorly with that (and are not valid in email).  Also,
there seems to be some character set conversion that happened along the
way; the outgoing draft (preSend) looks like it's in windows-1252 rather
than the final message which is in UTF-8. mhbuild won't do that (it
assumes the character set is correct) so I think something else had it's
hands on preSend before nmh's send got ahold of it.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help! Beginning of Messages snipped off

[norm]

Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com writes:
I am having a problem with one one particular correspondent. When I reply
to his messages, the beginning of the body of my messages is snipped off.

As an example, I am attaching:

[...]
  preSend: My draft before I sent it.
  afterSend: What get sent

These two ... do not seem to line up?  Specifically, afterSend contains
lines that do not appear in preSend:

This is line 4 of my reply.
This is line 5 of my reply.

I'm willing to believe we might be eating lines somewhere, but I have a
hard time believing we're inserting them :-)

Obviously I was somehow confused. I don't know how.

I will note preSend contains a bunch of NUL characters on the last line;
we probably do poorly with that (and are not valid in email).

Yes, they were the culprit. When I get rid of them. All works. Thank
you very much, indeed.

They got inserted as part of a kludge I use to deal with replies, when
the message I am replying to has quotedPrintable.


Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help with SASL/TLS

[Ken Hornstein]

(tls-decrypted) = 250-AUTH GSSAPI NTLM LOGIN

Do you want to use GSSAPI (really Kerberos), NTLM, or LOGIN?

Presumably you'd know if you were doing Kerberos; if you are using
Kerberos, you'd be running kinit and _not_ be putting a password in your
.netrc.  That's failing because you don't have a Kerberos credential
cache.

If you're trying to do NTLM, then I don't know what the client-side support
for that looks like.

If you're trying to do LOGIN (which I suspect is most likely), then the
problem is that the cyrus-sasl library is picking out the mechanism to
use based on what the server is saying it prefers, which is (in order of
most preferred to least preferred) GSSAPI, then NTLM, then LOGIN.  So if
you want to force a particular mechanism, you need to add an appropriate
-saslmech option (in this case, -saslmech LOGIN).

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help with SASL/TLS

[Bill Wohler]

Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com wrote:

 (tls-decrypted) = 250-AUTH GSSAPI NTLM LOGIN
 
 Do you want to use GSSAPI (really Kerberos), NTLM, or LOGIN?
 
 Presumably you'd know if you were doing Kerberos; if you are using
 Kerberos, you'd be running kinit and _not_ be putting a password in your
 .netrc.  That's failing because you don't have a Kerberos credential
 cache.
 
 If you're trying to do NTLM, then I don't know what the client-side support
 for that looks like.
 
 If you're trying to do LOGIN (which I suspect is most likely), then the
 problem is that the cyrus-sasl library is picking out the mechanism to
 use based on what the server is saying it prefers, which is (in order of
 most preferred to least preferred) GSSAPI, then NTLM, then LOGIN.  So if
 you want to force a particular mechanism, you need to add an appropriate
 -saslmech option (in this case, -saslmech LOGIN).

Thank you! Adding -saslmech LOGIN worked like a charm.

That description would be a welcome addition to the currently terse
reference to -saslmech in the manual.

 --Ken

-- 
Bill Wohler woh...@newt.com aka bill.woh...@nasa.gov
http://www.newt.com/wohler/
GnuPG ID:610BD9AD

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help with SASL/TLS

[Ken Hornstein]

That description would be a welcome addition to the currently terse
reference to -saslmech in the manual.

It's hard to balance the desire to provide a reasonably concise but
complete description of the options supported by send(1) to explaining
exactly how SASL negotiation works.  In a normal world, you don't need
-saslmech (normally you only have one mechanism you care about) it but
I put it in there because I figured it was useful.  It can get very
complicated very quickly.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help with SASL/TLS

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

If you're trying to do LOGIN (which I suspect is most likely), then the
problem is that the cyrus-sasl library is picking out the mechanism to
use based on what the server is saying it prefers, which is (in order of
most preferred to least preferred) GSSAPI, then NTLM, then LOGIN.


No, the SASL mechanisms listed in the AUTH keyword in the EHLO response 
are unordered.


The choice of mechanism to use is entirely up to the client.  Cyrus-sasl 
tends to prefer GSSAPI over just about everything else, so if you don't 
want to use that you need to explicitly call out a different mechanism (as 
Ken pointed out).


--lyndon


___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help with SASL/TLS

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

That description would be a welcome addition to the currently terse
reference to -saslmech in the manual.


exactly how SASL negotiation works.  In a normal world, you don't need
-saslmech (normally you only have one mechanism you care about) it but


The behaviour here has nothing to do with nmh.  It is solely an artifact 
of the SASL library we link against.  We can't document the behaviour 
because we have no control over it, and every library will act 
differently.


--lyndon


___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help with SASL/TLS

[Ken Hornstein]

No, the SASL mechanisms listed in the AUTH keyword in the EHLO response 
are unordered.

You know, I could have sworn that the server mechanism list was ordered
from most preferred to least preferred ... but there's no standards document
that says that, is there?  I stand corrected.

The choice of mechanism to use is entirely up to the client.  Cyrus-sasl 
tends to prefer GSSAPI over just about everything else, so if you don't 
want to use that you need to explicitly call out a different mechanism (as 
Ken pointed out).

From the Cyrus-SASL source code, the client-side preference list ends up
being:

/* compare security flags, only take new mechanism if it has
 * all the security flags of the previous one.
 *
 * From the mechanisms we ship with, this yields the order:
 *
 * SRP
 * GSSAPI + KERBEROS_V4
 * DIGEST + OTP
 * CRAM + EXTERNAL
 * PLAIN + LOGIN + ANONYMOUS

The behaviour here has nothing to do with nmh.  It is solely an artifact 
of the SASL library we link against.  We can't document the behaviour 
because we have no control over it, and every library will act 
differently.

It does occur to me that other SASL-aware programs I've dealt with require
you to explicitly configure the SASL mechanism you want to use on the client
side; I'm not sure if that's a good idea here or not.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help: 8-bit: I'm confused and befuddled.

[norm]

Now I'm confused, befuddled, intimidated and overwhelmed.

So let me ask two, I hope, simple questions.

Is it reasonably safe for me to put characters (octets) greater than 127 in the
body, excluding any attachments, of a message?

If so, what encodings is it reasonably safe for me to use for them?
In particular,  is it reasonably safe then for me to use ISO 8859-1?

Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com writes:
I put some of the relevant RFCs off of the nmh homepage here:

http://www.nongnu.org/nmh/rfc.html

Good idea! Thank you!

Shouldn't http://www.nongnu.org/nmh/ have a link to that page?


Norman Shapiro


___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help extracting mime parts from a message

[norm]

mhstore and mhlist have markedly improved the quality of my life.

I had seen references to mhstore over the years. But the notion that it had
to do with forwarding Email had somehow gotten into my head. So I never
explored it further.

Thank you all very much.

Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help extracting mime parts from a message

[Jerrad Pierce]

You want mhstore, mentioned in the See Also of mhshow

mhstore  (1)  - store contents of MIME messages into files

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help extracting mime parts from a message

[norm]

Jerrad Pierce belg4...@pthbb.org writes:
You want mhstore, mentioned in the See Also of mhshow

mhstore  (1)  - store contents of MIME messages into files

That's EXACTLY what I need. Thank you very much.

Norman Shapiro
798 Barron Avenue
Palo Alto CA 94306-3109
(650) 565-8215
n...@dad.org

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help extracting mime parts from a message

[David Levine]

Norm wrote:

 When try to run mhshow on it, it produces nothing useful
 -- it doesn't even run unzip. I'm guessing that I ought to
 have a configuration file somewhere, maybe
 .../nmh/etc/mailcap, that tells nmh about zip files.

Just to note that you probably don't need any special
configuration.

And, mhlist is very useful when dealing with message parts.
Its switches are very similar to those of mhstore.

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help extracting mime parts from a message

[norm]

David Levine levin...@acm.org writes:
Norm wrote:

 When try to run mhshow on it, it produces nothing useful
 -- it doesn't even run unzip. I'm guessing that I ought to
 have a configuration file somewhere, maybe
 .../nmh/etc/mailcap, that tells nmh about zip files.

Just to note that you probably don't need any special
configuration.

And, mhlist is very useful when dealing with message parts.
Its switches are very similar to those of mhstore.

After playing with mhstore some, I was about to query about mhlist's
functionality, when I read the mhstore man page again to see if it was there and
then saw the reference to mhlist.


Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Norm,

 The Email you analyzied was not sent from the computer suffering the
 bouncing problem.
 
 But this Email will be so sent.

Do you have trouble following the Received headers, bottom to top?  :-)

Received: from jad.dad.org (unknown [198.144.207.170])
by mailwash26.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8626B1B311
for ra...@inputplus.co.uk; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:55:23 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from jad.dad.org (localhost [IPv6:::1])
by jad.dad.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83FA0123457;
Fri, 25 May 2012 04:55:22 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: 20120525115522.83fa0123...@jad.dad.org

You passed it to Postfix on your localhost.  Postfix then passed it to
mailwash26.pair.com in order to reach me.  pair added the top `received'
header and said it was speaking to 198.144.207.170 but couldn't resolve
that to a PTR record, therefore `unknown'.

Sure enough,

$ host 198.144.207.170
Host 170.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
$

That's from a block owned by Raw Bandwidth Communications.

http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-198-144-192-0-1

Not many of them have reverse PTRs.

$ seq 1 254 |
 while read a; do
 printf %3d  $a
 dig +short @ns.tsoft.net. $a.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa ptr
 echo
 done |
 awk 'NF  1'
  1 sjbel-gw.rawbw.net.
  2 belsj-gw.rawbw.net.
  9 tsoftgw-providenet.tsoft.net.
 10 providenetgw.tsoft.net.
 29 tsoftgw-specfib.tsoft.net.
 30 specfibgw.tsoft.net.
 81 81.net80.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa.
 82 82.net80.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa.
 97 widewebgw.wideweb.com.
 98 server.wideweb.com.
 99 studio.wideweb.com.
100 notebook.wideweb.com.
101 studio2.wideweb.com.
105 www.webskulker.com.
106 www.excessmaterials.com.
129 border1.wc1.specialtyfibres.com.
130 airlock.specialtyfibres.com.
133 cerberus-u.specialtyfibres.com.
134 e3-core1.wc1.specialtyfibres.com.
162 mail.aclunc.org.
163 webmail.aclunc.org.
$

You need to ask your contacts there how to always have a PTR for your
IP address, currently 198.144.207.170.  It's not a good idea to run a
mail server from a machine without one these days which is why, once
again, I'd have thought you should be using your ISPs smarthost to send
mail to others on your behalf.

Cheers, Ralph.

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[norm]

Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk writes:
Hi Norm,

 The Email you analyzied was not sent from the computer suffering the
 bouncing problem.

 But this Email will be so sent.

Do you have trouble following the Received headers, bottom to top?  :-)

Received: from jad.dad.org (unknown [198.144.207.170])
by mailwash26.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8626B1B311
for ra...@inputplus.co.uk; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:55:23 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from jad.dad.org (localhost [IPv6:::1])
by jad.dad.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83FA0123457;
Fri, 25 May 2012 04:55:22 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: 20120525115522.83fa0123...@jad.dad.org

You passed it to Postfix on your localhost.  Postfix then passed it to
mailwash26.pair.com in order to reach me.  pair added the top `received'
header and said it was speaking to 198.144.207.170 but couldn't resolve
that to a PTR record, therefore `unknown'.

Sure enough,

$ host 198.144.207.170
Host 170.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
$

That's from a block owned by Raw Bandwidth Communications.

http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-198-144-192-0-1

Not many of them have reverse PTRs.

$ seq 1 254 |
 while read a; do
 printf %3d  $a
 dig +short @ns.tsoft.net. $a.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa ptr
 echo
 done |

 awk 'NF  1'
1 sjbel-gw.rawbw.net.
2 belsj-gw.rawbw.net.
9 tsoftgw-providenet.tsoft.net.
10 providenetgw.tsoft.net.
29 tsoftgw-specfib.tsoft.net.
30 specfibgw.tsoft.net.
81 81.net80.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa.
82 82.net80.207.144.198.in-addr.arpa.
97 widewebgw.wideweb.com.
98 server.wideweb.com.
99 studio.wideweb.com.
100 notebook.wideweb.com.
101 studio2.wideweb.com.
105 www.webskulker.com.
106 www.excessmaterials.com.
129 border1.wc1.specialtyfibres.com.
130 airlock.specialtyfibres.com.
133 cerberus-u.specialtyfibres.com.
134 e3-core1.wc1.specialtyfibres.com.
162 mail.aclunc.org.
163 webmail.aclunc.org.
$

You need to ask your contacts there how to always have a PTR for your IP
address, currently 198.144.207.170.

Are you saying that, the contact, mar...@eipye.com, mail to whom bounces, should
do something special?  He would have no more idea of what a PTR is than I do.

  It's not a good idea to run a mail server from a machine

I don't do any such thing. I would not attempt it anymore than I would try to
climb mount Everest.

 without one these days which is why, once again, I'd have thought you should
 be using your ISPs smarthost to send mail to others on your behalf.

I don't know what a smarthost is. All I do. by way sending mail, is whatever the
nmh defaults are, except that .mh_profile has the line:

   postproc: /usr/local/nmh/lib/post

Norman Shapiro

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Norm,

 It is:
 
   servers: localhost

Exactly!  You are running an SMTP server on localhost, that machine, and
it's Postfix.  I am here, Ubuntu.  Try this:

$ sudo lsof -i :25
COMMAND   PIDUSER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
master   1319root   12u  IPv4   8455  0t0  TCP 
localhost.localdomain:smtp (LISTEN)
master   1319root   13u  IPv6   8457  0t0  TCP orac:smtp (LISTEN)
smtpd   12551 postfix6u  IPv4   8455  0t0  TCP 
localhost.localdomain:smtp (LISTEN)
smtpd   12551 postfix7u  IPv6   8457  0t0  TCP orac:smtp (LISTEN)
$ 

I have `relayhost' set in /etc/postfix/main.cf for non-local addresses.
If I email a local user then it stays within the box, else it travels
directly to the the relay-host provided pair.com in my case.

Cheers, Ralph.

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi David,

You wrote off-list in a plane:
 change your servers: localhost line in mts.conf to servers:
 smtp.tsoft.net (without quotes).  If they require authentication,
 you'll find out when you try to send.

That alone is probably insufficient since Norm had that in the past and
found that sending emails to local usernames, e.g. `norm', bounces
because tsoft understandably don't know him.


http://old.nabble.com/Need-help-getting-nmh-to-send-local-mail-td31754322.html

I think continuing to pass emails to his local Postfix but configuring
that to relay foreign addresses to smtp.tsoft.net AKA smtp.rawbw.com is
probably the right thing.  Unfortunately, http://www.rawbandwidth.com/
doesn't have much in the way of authentication guidance AFAICS;  the old
http://www.rawbandwidth.com/support/faq/email.html is 404.  Mail
supp...@rawbandwidth.com to find out more?

Cheers, Ralph.

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[norm]

Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk writes:
Hi David,

You wrote off-list in a plane:
 change your servers: localhost line in mts.conf to servers:
 smtp.tsoft.net (without quotes).  If they require authentication,
 you'll find out whenyou try to send.

That alone is probably insufficient since Norm had that in the past and
found that sending emails to local usernames, e.g. `norm', bounces
because tsoft understandably don't know him.

Ken Hornstein's sugestion:

 send -server localhost $@

Still seems to work fine though, even with that change in mts.conf.

I am trying the mst.conf change. But the test may take few days to complete,
because the problematic addressee is traveling, and hence slow to Email respond.


http://old.nabble.com/Need-help-getting-nmh-to-send-local-mail-td31754322.html

I think continuing to pass emails to his local Postfix but configuring
that to relay foreign addresses to smtp.tsoft.net AKA smtp.rawbw.com is
probably the right thing.  Unfortunately, http://www.rawbandwidth.com/
doesn't have much in the way of authentication guidance AFAICS;  the old
http://www.rawbandwidth.com/support/faq/email.html is 404.  Mail
supp...@rawbandwidth.com to find out more?


___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ken Hornstein]

I am trying the mst.conf change. But the test may take few days to complete,
because the problematic addressee is traveling, and hence slow to Email
respond.

I think you'd know right away if you get a bounce.

When you asked about this in February, the way we left things was:

- You'll set servers to smtp.tsoft.com (You didn't need to do any
  authentication, from what I remember).
- When you want to send email to yourself, you'll use send -server localhost

AFACT, that setup should still do everything you want.  Your other options
are:

- Alias norm to n...@dad.org in nmh (and keep servers at smtp.tsoft.com).
- Modify your Postfix configuration to deliver local mail locally and punt
  everything to your ISP's smarthost.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[norm]

Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com writes:
So for this bounced email, was the email sent to localhost or your ISP?

My ISP.

Then to me that sounds like your ISP's problem.  You could look at the
headers of your bounce message and see which host it's complaining about.

Well, maybe you could 'look at the headers... and see which host..,', but I
can't. So I'm forwarding a typical bounce, in the hope that you'll do it.

Norman Shapiro
798 Barron Avenue
Palo Alto CA 94306-3109
(650) 565-8215
n...@dad.org

--- Forwarded Message

Expire: Thu, 31 May 2012 00:00:00
Return-Path: mailer-dae...@rawbw.com
Delivery-Date: Wed May 23 05:50:51 2012
Return-Path: mailer-dae...@rawbw.com
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
by localhost.localdomain (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q4NCopIH027630
for norm@localhost; Wed, 23 May 2012 05:50:51 -0700
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on mail1.rawbw.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS
autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1
Received: from imap.rawbw.com [198.144.192.43]
by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-6.2.5)
for norm@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 23 May 2012 05:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ns2.adzone.com (ns2.adzone.com [96.247.50.174])
by mail1.rawbw.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q4NCobcT057861
for s...@rawbw.com; Wed, 23 May 2012 05:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jad.dad.org ([198.144.207.170])
by ns2.adzone.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q4NCc9hw021046
for n...@dad.org; Wed, 23 May 2012 05:38:09 -0700
Received: by jad.dad.org (Postfix)
id E26631240CF; Wed, 23 May 2012 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: mailer-dae...@jad.dad.org (Mail Delivery System)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: n...@dad.org
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
boundary=B96EE1240A6.133436/jad.dad.org
Message-Id: 20120523125036.e2663124...@jad.dad.org

This is a MIME-encapsulated message.

- --B96EE1240A6.133436/jad.dad.org
Content-Description: Notification
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

This is the mail system at host jad.dad.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

   The mail system

mar...@eipye.com: host mail.eipye.com[64.14.74.17] said: 421 Refused. You
have no reverse DNS entry. Contact ab...@suresupport.com for details. (in
reply to RCPT TO command)

- --B96EE1240A6.133436/jad.dad.org
Content-Description: Delivery report
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; jad.dad.org
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: B96EE1240A6
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; n...@dad.org
Arrival-Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 05:34:45 -0700 (PDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; mar...@eipye.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822;mar...@eipye.com
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mail.eipye.com
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 421 Refused. You have no reverse DNS entry. Contact
ab...@suresupport.com for details.

- --B96EE1240A6.133436/jad.dad.org
Content-Description: Undelivered Message
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: n...@dad.org
Received: from jad.dad.org (localhost [IPv6:::1])
by jad.dad.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96EE1240A6;
Fri, 18 May 2012 05:34:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: Martin Davis mar...@eipye.com
cc: n...@dad.org
Reply-To: Norman Shapiro n...@dad.org
From: n...@dad.org
Subject: Email from jad
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 05:34:45 -0700
Message-Id: 20120518123445.b96ee124...@jad.dad.org

Did you get this Email?

Norman Shapiro
798 Barron Avenue
Palo Alto CA 94306-3109
(650) 565-8215
n...@dad.org

- --B96EE1240A6.133436/jad.dad.org--

--- End of Forwarded Message


___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[David Levine]

Norm wrote:

 Well, maybe you could 'look at the headers... and see which
 host..,', but I can't. So I'm forwarding a typical bounce, in the
 hope that you'll do it.

 --- Forwarded Message

 Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
 From: mailer-dae...@jad.dad.org (Mail Delivery System)
 Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
 To: n...@dad.org
 Message-Id: 20120523125036.e2663124...@jad.dad.org

 This is the mail system at host jad.dad.org.

That bounce is from jad.dad.org.  It looks like you sent to
your local machine instead of your ISP (smtp.tsoft.com?).

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi David,

 
  Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
  From: mailer-dae...@jad.dad.org (Mail Delivery System)
  Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
  To: n...@dad.org
  Message-Id: 20120523125036.e2663124...@jad.dad.org
 
  This is the mail system at host jad.dad.org.
 
 That bounce is from jad.dad.org.  It looks like you sent to your local
 machine instead of your ISP (smtp.tsoft.com?).

Is his local SMTP server on jad not involved with passing it onto his
ISP's smarthost then?

I read it as the other party, mail.eipye.com, rejected it when jad tried
to hand it over so the bounce email is from jad but it talked directly
to the peer.  Norm, it should probably be talking to your ISP's
smarthost and then they talk to eipye on your behalf.

The IP address jad appears to have as far as mail.eipye.com is concerned
doesn't have a reverse DNS entry to map it back to a domain name, e.g.
jad.dad.org.  Even after adding one I'd still recommend using your ISP's
smarthost as your IP address may be on spam blacklists from an earlier
time or just because it's from the ISP's client pool.

From jad you could do

wget -qO- http://donk.c4l.co.uk/ip

to show its IP address.

Cheers, Ralph.

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[David Levine]

Ralph wrote:

 Is his local SMTP server on jad not involved with passing it onto
 his ISP's smarthost then?

I don't think so, based on my possibly faded recollection
of the earlier discussion.

 I read it as the other party, mail.eipye.com, rejected it
 when jad tried to hand it over so the bounce email is from
 jad but it talked directly to the peer.  Norm, it should
 probably be talking to your ISP's smarthost and then they
 talk to eipye on your behalf.

I think that Norm had configured nmh to send directly to his
ISP's smtp server.  For local mail, he overrides with send
-server localhost or something equivalent.

If that's right, my guess is that the override has run amok.

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[valdis . kletnieks]

On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:50:11 -0700, n...@dad.org said:
 After I sent the attached Email, last February, Ken Hornstein solved the
 dilemma it posed by telling me about the -server localhost option to send.
 Until a few weeks ago, everything was fine. Then I started getting the same:

 Received: from jad.dad.org (localhost [IPv6:::1])
   by jad.dad.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816DB1230E2;
   Thu,  9 Feb 2012 15:29:58 -0800 (PST)

Somebody's talking to the local MTA rather than the ISP smarthost...

Then when jad.dad.org tries to hand it off to mail.eipye.com, that host
whines because jad's IP address doesn't have a PTR entry.


pgphK0sRD40CG.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[norm]

Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com writes:
Well, maybe you could 'look at the headers... and see which host..,', but I
can't. So I'm forwarding a typical bounce, in the hope that you'll do it.

As others have mentioned ... you're submitting your email to the localhost
MTA, instead of your ISP smarthost.

I didn't remember the details of your original problem, so I looked it up
here:

http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2012-02/msg00198.html

The conclusion of that thread was that you would send norm email to
the localhost MTA (via -server localhost) and everything else would go
to your ISP smarthost.

That's what I do now. I only use 'send -server localhost', for messages
addressed to plain 'norm' and nobody else. If I inadvertently attempt to use
plain 'send' to send a message addressed to plain 'norm', I get an error
message. All this had worked well, from February, sending many messages to
mar...@eipye.com, with no bounces. Then, a few weeks ago, those message started
bouncing. As far as I know, I've made no changes to my nmh environment, on the
relevant computer, (which is not the computer from which this Email will come)
since February.

Norman Shapiro
798 Barron Avenue
Palo Alto CA 94306-3109
(650) 565-8215
n...@dad.org

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Ken,

  That's what I do now. I only use 'send -server localhost', for
  messages addressed to plain 'norm' and nobody else. If I
  inadvertently attempt to use plain 'send' to send a message
  addressed to plain 'norm', I get an error message. All this had
  worked well, from February, sending many messages to
  mar...@eipye.com, with no bounces. Then, a few weeks ago, those
  message started bouncing. As far as I know, I've made no changes to
  my nmh environment, on the relevant computer, (which is not the
  computer from which this Email will come) since February.
 
 I think you need to investigate (with the -snoop switch, most likely)
 as to what's really going on.  The bounce email you get is clearly
 from your local machine.

I wonder if his ISP has dished out a new IP address, e.g. after a power
outage, and it's one that doesn't have a DNS PTR entry.  Norm would be
right, he has changed nothing, but his appearance on the Internet has
changed.

Cheers, Ralph.

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ken Hornstein]

After I sent the attached Email, last February, Ken Hornstein solved the
dilemma it posed by telling me about the -server localhost option to send.
Until a few weeks ago, everything was fine. Then I started getting the same:

mar...@eipye.com: host mail.eipye.com[64.14.74.17] said: 421 Refused. 
 You
have no reverse DNS entry. Contact ab...@suresupport.com for details. (in
reply to RCPT TO command)

I'm trying to remember ... as I recall, you wanted to send to localhost for
your own email, but to your ISP's smtp relay for everyone else.  So for
this bounced email, was the email sent to localhost or your ISP?

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[norm]

Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com writes:
After I sent the attached Email, last February, Ken Hornstein solved the
dilemma it posed by telling me about the -server localhost option to send.
Until a few weeks ago, everything was fine. Then I started getting the same:

mar...@eipye.com: host mail.eipye.com[64.14.74.17] said: 421 Refused. 
 You
have no reverse DNS entry. Contact ab...@suresupport.com for details. (in
reply to RCPT TO command)

I'm trying to remember ... as I recall, you wanted to send to localhost for
your own email, but to your ISP's smtp relay for everyone else.

Correct.

So for this bounced email, was the email sent to localhost or your ISP?

My ISP.


Norman Shapiro
798 Barron Avenue
Palo Alto CA 94306-3109
(650) 565-8215
n...@dad.org

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[Ken Hornstein]

So for this bounced email, was the email sent to localhost or your ISP?

My ISP.

Then to me that sounds like your ISP's problem.  You could look at the
headers of your bounce message and see which host it's complaining about.

--Ken

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

Re: [Nmh-workers] Help!

[David Levine]

Norm wrote:

 Ken Hornstein k...@pobox.com writes:
 So for this bounced email, was the email sent to localhost or your ISP?

 My ISP.

I'd verify that by adding -snoop to your send command.

David

___
Nmh-workers mailing list
Nmh-workers@nongnu.org
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers