Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
Philipp Takacs wrote in : |[2022-06-29 21:07] Steffen Nurpmeso |> (I personally like a nice and so on, append-only MIME MBOX the |> most, and do not understand why people do not like it. | |Because mbox is a horrible file format. First of all it's only one file |so you have to build a folder stucture around it. Next it's hard to It is a database. |delete (or move) mails if they not at the end of the file. These Well yes you need to rewrite the file. With Zawinskis Netscape index approach it could instead be as easy as setting a bit. Or you could reserve a byte in the Status: field of messages, but it likely is as non-portable to other MUAs that access the file. |problems are not that bad depending on for what you want to use the mbox |and can solved by writing more and complex code. Not at all complex. |The main problem is that there is not the mbox format, there are several |variants. Some variants don't allow arbatrary mails as content and most |(probably all) of them aren't realy specified. It's nearly impossible to |determ which variant you have. Therfor most software just implement one |variant and handle other variants incorrect. Jamie Zawinski explains the |details of the problems quite good[0]. Didn't we have this once in the past already?? To me MBOX is a database, and when you store MIME mail messages there is no problem, as the format problem does not occur. Otherwise anyone applies From_ quoting, i even had to readd this to the MUA i maintain, because people do not want MIME. So let them love their ">From" (or even " From" from i think ezml), even it modifies their thing. You see this often on majordomo lists etc. I do not understand. Of course when they PGP or S/MIME sign their message, or use attachments, they do get MIME and then the problem does not happen. |So please stop using mbox. Not me. |Philipp | |Ps: what bugs me the most is when mbox is used to store exactly one mail |Pps: Sorry for the OT rant, but this bugs me every time I get a mbox I empathise for the one line that makes a difference! |[0] https://www.jwz.org/doc/content-length.html --End of --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
[2022-06-29 21:07] Steffen Nurpmeso > (I personally like a nice and so on, append-only MIME MBOX the > most, and do not understand why people do not like it. Because mbox is a horrible file format. First of all it's only one file so you have to build a folder stucture around it. Next it's hard to delete (or move) mails if they not at the end of the file. These problems are not that bad depending on for what you want to use the mbox and can solved by writing more and complex code. The main problem is that there is not the mbox format, there are several variants. Some variants don't allow arbatrary mails as content and most (probably all) of them aren't realy specified. It's nearly impossible to determ which variant you have. Therfor most software just implement one variant and handle other variants incorrect. Jamie Zawinski explains the details of the problems quite good[0]. So please stop using mbox. Philipp Ps: what bugs me the most is when mbox is used to store exactly one mail Pps: Sorry for the OT rant, but this bugs me every time I get a mbox [0] https://www.jwz.org/doc/content-length.html
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
>Hm, i rewrote Maildir name things of the MUA i maintain, and >i found: > > /* If the seconds part does not work, go deeper. >* We use de-facto standard "maildir - E-mail directory" from the Courier >* mail server, also used by, e.g., Dovecot: sec.MusecPpid.hostname:2,flags. >* However, a different name convention exists which uses >* sec.pid_counter.hostname:2,flags. >* First go for usec/counter, then pid */ I mean ... I read this paragraph, and I can't help but think it proves my point? I acknowledge that the reality on the ground is that a number of MUAs do use Maildir as a mailbox storage backend, for reasons I cannot grasp. It does occur to me that maybe a "thin layer" that would be easy to write for nmh would be to maintain links from a MH-style mailspool to the appropriate Maildir file. --Ken
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
Ken Hornstein wrote: > I am continually confused why anyone thinks Maildir is a good idea for > mailbox storage; I think it is fine for a _maildrop_ (since that was > it's intended purpose), but every time I've seen it used as a backend I'm not arguing with you. I just want to duct tape together a few hockey sticks and go toboganing. > Also, I thought cyrus-imapd uses it's own internal backend for mail > storage and Maildir isn't one of them. Looks like the list of storage > types is here: > https://www.cyrusimap.org/imap/concepts/deployment/databases.html#storage-types > You might be thinking of Dovecot which _does_ use Maildir as a backend > storage, but my understanding is that Dovecot has the filename metadata > problem mentioned above. Oh. Mumble. Yeah. that one :-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
Ken Hornstein wrote in <20220629184548.f030b19f...@pb-smtp20.pobox.com>: |>I guess I will try the Maildir hard links script with |>cyrus-imapd for providing access to the 6G of mail on my desktop. |>I'm okay that it would be read-only... it's probably a feature. | |I am continually confused why anyone thinks Maildir is a good idea for |mailbox storage; I think it is fine for a _maildrop_ (since that was |it's intended purpose), but every time I've seen it used as a backend |for mailbox storage, you end up cramming a lot of metadata into the |individual filenames and nobody seems to quite agree on those metadata |semantics. | |Also, I thought cyrus-imapd uses it's own internal backend for |mail storage and Maildir isn't one of them. Looks like the list of |storage types is here: | |https://www.cyrusimap.org/imap/concepts/deployment/databases.html#storag\ |e-types | |You might be thinking of Dovecot which _does_ use Maildir as a backend |storage, but my understanding is that Dovecot has the filename metadata |problem mentioned above. Hm, i rewrote Maildir name things of the MUA i maintain, and i found: /* If the seconds part does not work, go deeper. * We use de-facto standard "maildir - E-mail directory" from the Courier * mail server, also used by, e.g., Dovecot: sec.MusecPpid.hostname:2,flags. * However, a different name convention exists which uses * sec.pid_counter.hostname:2,flags. * First go for usec/counter, then pid */ I do not know about other name variants. But i agree that my a_maildir_cmp() for name comparison is a hog. We also use an array for all the filenames in a box (i want to implement Zawinski's index for long, but not yet). (I personally like a nice and so on, append-only MIME MBOX the most, and do not understand why people do not like it. Heck, once i read on a FreeBSD list an administrator saying something like "... my boss has a 2GB INBOX, it is no fun; we now use Archaeopterix" or however this dinosaur/software combo was really named. What i mean is: if you only append anyway, have a nice index. Cheerio.) --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
>I guess I will try the Maildir hard links script with >cyrus-imapd for providing access to the 6G of mail on my desktop. >I'm okay that it would be read-only... it's probably a feature. I am continually confused why anyone thinks Maildir is a good idea for mailbox storage; I think it is fine for a _maildrop_ (since that was it's intended purpose), but every time I've seen it used as a backend for mailbox storage, you end up cramming a lot of metadata into the individual filenames and nobody seems to quite agree on those metadata semantics. Also, I thought cyrus-imapd uses it's own internal backend for mail storage and Maildir isn't one of them. Looks like the list of storage types is here: https://www.cyrusimap.org/imap/concepts/deployment/databases.html#storage-types You might be thinking of Dovecot which _does_ use Maildir as a backend storage, but my understanding is that Dovecot has the filename metadata problem mentioned above. --Ken
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
Thank you for the links. I can see that netoric is useful for synchronizing my MH inbox so that I can get at it from my phone. Right now, my phone can see my inbox until I run "inc", and then it leaves my mail server... I guess I will try the Maildir hard links script with cyrus-imapd for providing access to the 6G of mail on my desktop. I'm okay that it would be read-only... it's probably a feature. A killer-app for me is being able to run Thunderbird on my desktop to point at the same (MH) inbox as Emacs, so that I can: a) get better HTML rendering when I need it b) import calendar entries About (b), I've tried some of the gcal interfaces (within Emacs and without) and they haven't been to my liking, haven't been compatible enough. I typically just bounce stuff to my gmail account, but I'd really like to stop using Google calendar. (Feel free to organize an intervention) (while I use cyrus-imapd on my mail server, I could run something different on my mail archive machine. I keep thinking I should write a single-user IMAP server in GO or Rust... ) -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works| network architect [ ] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/| ruby on rails[ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
Hi [2022-06-27 12:50] Wolfgang Denk > tldr: How can I export (and keep in sync) MH folders to an IMAP > account; direction is only MH -> IMAP. I currently use netoric[0] a small imap sync programm written by a friend of mine. Before that I have used mailsync[1]. Philipp [0] https://git.c-14.de/netoric.git/ [1] http://mailsync.sourceforge.net/
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
wolfgang wrote: > Hi, > > tldr: How can I export (and keep in sync) MH folders to an IMAP > account; direction is only MH -> IMAP. The only tool I can offer is one which I've never used, but if I ever need it, I will. :-) It may or may not be useful in your case. It's a script posted long ago (2006) by Chris Garrigues (he may still be on the list) which, on demand (probably frequently, from cron) uses hard links to do a bidirectional sync between an MH tree and a maildir tree. The maildir tree can then be served by imap. https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2006-06/msg6.html An updated copy of the script is attached to this message, from a later thread: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2008-07/msg4.html paul =-- paul fox, p...@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma)
Re: Export/sync nmh folders to IMAP server
Wolfgang Denk wrote: > Hi, Hi, > tldr: How can I export (and keep in sync) MH folders to an IMAP > account; direction is only MH -> IMAP. I don't know of a simple tool but I know Claws Mail store messages in MH format and supports IMAP so maybe this could be a starting point? Good luck! :) -- Regards, Thomas
