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Today's Topics:
1. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Improvement/Support of
Big File Handling (SourceForge.net)
2. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Notepad++ v5.0.1 comes
out (SourceForge.net)
3. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Improvement/Support of
Big File Handling (SourceForge.net)
4. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Improvement/Support of
Big File Handling (SourceForge.net)
5. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: emails extractor
(SourceForge.net)
6. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] New Language support request
(SourceForge.net)
7. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Improvement/Support of
Big File Handling (SourceForge.net)
8. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Improvement/Support of
Big File Handling (SourceForge.net)
9. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Improvement/Support of
Big File Handling (SourceForge.net)
10. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Embedded languages
(SourceForge.net)
11. [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE: Improvement/Support of
Big File Handling (SourceForge.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:37:06 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Improvement/Support of Big File Handling
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Read and respond to this message at:
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By: nobody
> But I doubt you are right that a program can't check how much memory is
> available
given that there are many 3rd
> party programs that work at a level where this must be necessary and even
free utilities report on various states
> of memory.
Yeah that might be right. But often you need big chunks of memory (for allocate
arrays for example) and to find out if those chunks are availible you cant
use any windows api function. But this discussion is nothing that helps
Notepad++
I also doubt that I will ever see such a big file support in here :-D
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:39:45 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Notepad++ v5.0.1 comes out
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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By: nobody
>Fix Notepad++ launch problem under WINE.
Made my day!
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:47:58 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Improvement/Support of Big File Handling
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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By: donho
> Wont it possible until the point this change will find a way
> into the code to produce an error message instead a bad crash?
I agree with you that'll be a better management.
The problem is the crash comes from sciLexer.dll that makes difficult
(impossible?)
to catch the exception (the same situation from the plugins).
I did try but in vain, but if you have any idea to prevent Notepad++ from the
crash, you are more than welcome.
Don
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:55:56 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Improvement/Support of Big File Handling
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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By: clrs530
Ok thats a word, thanks.
Will look into it tomorrow. I hoped Scintilla returned any strange result
notepad++
didn?t handled yet, but this sounds bad. Doing any size limit isn?t possible
because vista can handle much more then XP (tested myselv) and more memory has
to be better (don?t tested this :-D)
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:16:36 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
emails extractor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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By: nobody
Try a search for "extract".
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:11:29 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] New
Language support request
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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By: y_offs_et
Two months ago Euphoria cracked the top 50 used programming languages at 49.
One month ago it hit 34.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
The keywords of Euphoria's imminent Version 4.0 can be found here.
http://openeuphoria.org/docs/
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:42:57 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Improvement/Support of Big File Handling
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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By: snemarch
>> But I doubt you are right that a program can't check how much memory
>> is available given that there are many 3rd party programs that work
>> at a level where this must be necessary and even free utilities report
>> on various states of memory.
>>
> Yeah that might be right. But often you need big chunks of memory
> (for allocate arrays for example) and to find out if those chunks
> are availible you cant use any windows api function. But this
> discussion is nothing that helps Notepad++ I also doubt that I
> will ever see such a big file support in here :-D
>
You can query available memory (there's various stats) to find out
what reasonable "big buffer sizes" are, for instance if you want to
have a dynamically sized cache or the like. Those stats should only
be seen as a rule of thumb, though, and not a guarantee - we live
under a multitasking operating system and have to cooperate with
other running processes. Furthermore, issues like memory fragmentation
can play a role.
The correct thing to do is, of course, to handle memory allocation
failure gracefully. And to avoid allocating memory in ways that lead
to heap fragmentation...
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:46:52 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Improvement/Support of Big File Handling
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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By: snemarch
>> Won?t it possible until the point this change will find a way
>> into the code to produce an error message instead a bad crash?
>>
> I agree with you that'll be a better management.
> The problem is the crash comes from sciLexer.dll that makes
> difficult (impossible?) to catch the exception (the same situation
> from the plugins).
>
> I did try but in vain, but if you have any idea to prevent Notepad++
> from the crash, you are more than welcome.
>
I guess the crash is a win32 exception rather than a thrown but unhandled
C++ exception? In that case, a C++ style exception handler won't help you.
But it's likely that you can use a SEH-style exception handler to catch
the error - whether you can recover from the crash is another story, though
(if Scintilla's internal state is messed up, being able to catch the error
might not do much good).
Thing is, SEH exception handlers are compiler-specific, so you'd probably
be doing MSVC vendor lock-in if you use them (dunno if GCC supports it and
whether it's using the same syntax). Look up the MSVC __try and __except
keywords.
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:42:24 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Improvement/Support of Big File Handling
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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By: nobody
>You can query available memory (there's various stats) to find out
what reasonable "big buffer sizes" are, for instance if you want to
have a dynamically sized cache or the like. Those stats should only
be seen as a rule of thumb, though, and not a guarantee - we live
under a multitasking operating system and have to cooperate with
other running processes. Furthermore, issues like memory fragmentation
can play a role.
>The correct thing to do is, of course, to handle memory allocation
failure gracefully. And to avoid allocating memory in ways that lead
to heap fragmentation...
Ok - I'm the guy that Simon was asking about my technical background again.
Now with your new info, I'll better detail what I'm suggesting. Say a n++ user
wants to open a 100 mb file, so he he "opens" it. N++ needs to check the file
size of every file before it loads it. N++ sees that the user is trying to
open a big file, so N++ checks with Windows to see roughly how much memory N++'s
process can get. If there isn't significantly MORE than enough memory to be
had, N++ aborts the "open" with a nice message: "file too large for available
memory". If there seems to be enough memory, then N++ does a "new" (alloc)
for the full amount that it will need for the file and "catches" the fail (if
that's what happens) with a nice error message. Of course, if N++ runs out
of stack memory or uses a bad pointer, then we're left to the OS to "manage"
the crash. Frankly, this is so straightforward, I don't know why so many
Windows
programs, including Microsoft's, and other OS's seem to have so much trouble
with this (and things like choking on a control/binary character). There's
two guilty parties: the OS's and the programs, even Microsoft's own programs.
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:53:17 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Embedded languages
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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By: jmdlugosz
Do you (or anyone else) have a HTML::Mason lang file yet? I'm looking for an
editor that does this.
Or, is there some other HTML+embedded lang that I can look at as a starting
point? I don't see a lang sharing or downloads area here to browse.
--John
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:55:07 +0000
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Notepad-plus-plus] [notepad-plus - Open Discussion] RE:
Improvement/Support of Big File Handling
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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By: snemarch
> Now with your new info, I'll better detail what I'm suggesting. Say a n++
> user wants to open a 100 mb file, so he he "opens" it. N++ needs to check
> the file size of every file before it loads it. N++ sees that the user is
> trying to open a big file, so N++ checks with Windows to see roughly how much
> memory N++'s process can get.
>
That's doable without much fuzz.
> If there isn't significantly MORE than enough memory to be had, N++ aborts
> the "open" with a nice message: "file too large for available memory". If
> there seems to be enough memory, then N++ does a "new" (alloc) for the full
> amount that it will need for the file and "catches" the fail (if that's what
> happens) with a nice error message.
>
That's easy as well... BUT... things are more complicated than that :)
I haven't dug into the internal structures used by Scintilla, but I think it's
safe to say it might not be trivial guesstimating just how much memory you need
(ie., to perhaps store things like line-number indices, syntax coloring info,
parsing state, ...) - and if there's a bunch of dynamic allocations going on,
you risk the heap fragmentation issue, which can be a major pain as well.
> Of course, if N++ runs out of stack memory or uses a bad pointer, then we're
> left to the OS to "manage" the crash.
>
That kind of stuff can usually be caught with exception handling, unless you're
in a *really* messed up situation. Can't always be fixed, but often you can at
least exit relatively gracefully, instead of just crashing and discarding file
modifications.
> Frankly, this is so straightforward, I don't know why so many Windows
programs,
> including Microsoft's, and other OS's seem to have so much trouble with this
> (and things like choking on a control/binary character). There's two guilty
> parties: the OS's and the programs, even Microsoft's own programs.
>
Well, memory allocation isn't exactly trivial, once you go beyond basic usage
:)
And keep in mind that Scintilla wasn't really designed with huge files in mind,
so trying to open a 50+meg logfile should probably be seen as abuse...
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