Notmuch-mutt in RaspberryPi

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 13 iul 15, 21:17:59, Yeison Quintero wrote:
> Good evening David.
> 
> Please send to me the steps to install and configure notmuch-mutt. I
> already have mutt instaled in my OS.

Dear Yeison,

Mutt and notmuch are independent programs. notmuch-mutt is just the 
"glue" to connect them. Before you can make it work you must configure 
notmuch as per David's instructions (below).

> 2015-07-10 1:10 GMT-04:30 David Bremner :
> 
> > I'm trying to help, but you didn't answer the questions I asked in my
> > first message.
> >
> > 1) Do you have the notmuch binary (e.g. /usr/bin/notmuch,
> >/usr/local/bin/notmuch) installed? If not, install it.
> >
> > 2) run "notmuch setup" from the command line.
> >
> > 3) run "notmuch new" from the command line.
> >
> > 4) now try notmuch-mutt.
> >
> > You will need to repeat step 3 (or learn about "notmuch insert" whenever
> > you have new mail delivered to the machine running notmuch-mutt.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt
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Re: Notmuch-mutt in RaspberryPi

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 13 iul 15, 21:17:59, Yeison Quintero wrote:
 Good evening David.
 
 Please send to me the steps to install and configure notmuch-mutt. I
 already have mutt instaled in my OS.

Dear Yeison,

Mutt and notmuch are independent programs. notmuch-mutt is just the 
glue to connect them. Before you can make it work you must configure 
notmuch as per David's instructions (below).

 2015-07-10 1:10 GMT-04:30 David Bremner da...@tethera.net:
 
  I'm trying to help, but you didn't answer the questions I asked in my
  first message.
 
  1) Do you have the notmuch binary (e.g. /usr/bin/notmuch,
 /usr/local/bin/notmuch) installed? If not, install it.
 
  2) run notmuch setup from the command line.
 
  3) run notmuch new from the command line.
 
  4) now try notmuch-mutt.
 
  You will need to repeat step 3 (or learn about notmuch insert whenever
  you have new mail delivered to the machine running notmuch-mutt.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


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exim pipe transport, notmuch insert and mbox-style messages

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 22 nov 14, 10:44:45, David Bremner wrote:
> Edward Betts  writes:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if 'notmuch insert' could be modified to detect and drop the From_
> > line before writing the message to disk and index it. It could do that
> > silently or with a warning.
> 
> I don't know about the larger question(s), but I'd suggest just escaping
> it to something like X-Envelope-From: . There may even be some
> semi-standard header to use for this.

I had the same problem with postfix + maildrop, as local(8) 
unconditionally adds the 'From ' header when delivering to an external 
command and upstream did not consider my suggestion to make this 
configurable. The work-arounds I came up with:

1. use 'reformail -f0' as suggested in maildrop(1)

reformail(1):

-f0
Any initial blank lines are removed. If the first non-blank line is a 
"From_" line, it gets converted to a "Return-Path:" header, and any
existing "Return-Path:" header gets removed. If the message does not 
start with a "From_" line, the message remains unchanged.

2. adjust the 'maildrop' destination in postfix' master.cf to remove the 
'F' flag.

pipe(8):

F   Prepend a "From sender time_stamp" envelope header to the 
message content.  This is expected by, for example, UUCP
software.

3. Deliver from postfix to a Maildir, bypassing any filtering.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt
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Re: exim pipe transport, notmuch insert and mbox-style messages

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 22 nov 14, 10:44:45, David Bremner wrote:
 Edward Betts edw...@4angle.com writes:
 
 
  I wonder if 'notmuch insert' could be modified to detect and drop the From_
  line before writing the message to disk and index it. It could do that
  silently or with a warning.
 
 I don't know about the larger question(s), but I'd suggest just escaping
 it to something like X-Envelope-From: . There may even be some
 semi-standard header to use for this.

I had the same problem with postfix + maildrop, as local(8) 
unconditionally adds the 'From ' header when delivering to an external 
command and upstream did not consider my suggestion to make this 
configurable. The work-arounds I came up with:

1. use 'reformail -f0' as suggested in maildrop(1)

reformail(1):

-f0
Any initial blank lines are removed. If the first non-blank line is a 
From_ line, it gets converted to a Return-Path: header, and any
existing Return-Path: header gets removed. If the message does not 
start with a From_ line, the message remains unchanged.

2. adjust the 'maildrop' destination in postfix' master.cf to remove the 
'F' flag.

pipe(8):

F   Prepend a From sender time_stamp envelope header to the 
message content.  This is expected by, for example, UUCP
software.

3. Deliver from postfix to a Maildir, bypassing any filtering.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


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'notmuch new' trying to read non-existing files

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 27 aug 14, 07:29:38, Perttu Luukko wrote:
> 
> Well this is embarrassing, but this was indeed the case. I had cleaned
> the Maildir from what I thought were leftover symlinks from some time
> long ago. Actually, I had a script that creates, with symlinks, a copy
> of my mailbox without the dots in the directory names for use with Mutt.

Just for your info, Mutt works just fine with Maildir++, without any 
special configuration.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt
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Re: 'notmuch new' trying to read non-existing files

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 27 aug 14, 07:29:38, Perttu Luukko wrote:
 
 Well this is embarrassing, but this was indeed the case. I had cleaned
 the Maildir from what I thought were leftover symlinks from some time
 long ago. Actually, I had a script that creates, with symlinks, a copy
 of my mailbox without the dots in the directory names for use with Mutt.

Just for your info, Mutt works just fine with Maildir++, without any 
special configuration.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


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excessive thread fusing

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 19 apr 14, 18:52:02, Eric wrote:
> 
> This may not actually be any help, but both hypermail and mhonarc agree
> that two messages form a separate thread from the rest. I believe that
> the latter, at least, is the JWZ algorithm.

mutt concurs.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt
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Re: excessive thread fusing

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 19 apr 14, 18:52:02, Eric wrote:
 
 This may not actually be any help, but both hypermail and mhonarc agree
 that two messages form a separate thread from the rest. I believe that
 the latter, at least, is the JWZ algorithm.

mutt concurs.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


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notmuch-mutt: Use of uninitialized value.

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 14 feb 13, 00:36:58, Profpatsch wrote:
> 
> So much for copying a basic rc from someone else.

There's no problem with that, as long as you take the time to read and 
understand what each option does.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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Re: notmuch-mutt: Use of uninitialized value.

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 14 feb 13, 00:36:58, Profpatsch wrote:
 
 So much for copying a basic rc from someone else.

There's no problem with that, as long as you take the time to read and 
understand what each option does.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Reply all - issue

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 30 ian 13, 22:39:40, Suvayu Ali wrote:
> 
> That said, I think this feature is indeed useful at times but it should
> be implemented in the UI on user command or as a configurable (e.g. mutt
> provides the  command), not a default underlying behaviour
> of the backend.  If this is pursued, implementing it as a configurable
> in the Emacs UI might be more appropriate (or whatever other UIs exists
> out there).

As a subscriber of 30+ mailing lists a big +1 from me. Mutt's 
 has served me well on the very rare occasion I needed it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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Re: Reply all - issue

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 30 ian 13, 22:39:40, Suvayu Ali wrote:
 
 That said, I think this feature is indeed useful at times but it should
 be implemented in the UI on user command or as a configurable (e.g. mutt
 provides the break-thread command), not a default underlying behaviour
 of the backend.  If this is pursued, implementing it as a configurable
 in the Emacs UI might be more appropriate (or whatever other UIs exists
 out there).

As a subscriber of 30+ mailing lists a big +1 from me. Mutt's 
break-thread has served me well on the very rare occasion I needed it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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It's good to be "back"!

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 29 ian 13, 14:14:38, Carl Worth wrote:
> I'm
> excited to start looking close at the new features that I've not played
> with (nmbug, date parsing, etc.), and maybe start implementing some of
> those ancient features that I never got around to implementing in the
> first place, (indexing of List-Id headers?).

Yes please :)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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Re: It's good to be back!

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 29 ian 13, 14:14:38, Carl Worth wrote:
 I'm
 excited to start looking close at the new features that I've not played
 with (nmbug, date parsing, etc.), and maybe start implementing some of
 those ancient features that I never got around to implementing in the
 first place, (indexing of List-Id headers?).

Yes please :)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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OT: Sorting emails in maildir?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 10 dec 12, 12:57:57, Rainer M Krug wrote:
> On 10/12/12 12:39, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Lu, 10 dec 12, 12:30:32, Rainer M Krug wrote:
> >> Hi
> >> 
> >> This is slightly offtopic, but I would like to move all emails in a 
> >> Maildir folder into an
> >> Archive folder. What is the easiest way of doing this? I assume I ave to 
> >> do this outside
> >> notmuch, but is there an easy way? I have 250 000 emails on my gmail 
> >> account, and this is
> >> slowing many things down.
> >> 
> >> Any suggestions?
> > 
> > mv?
> 
> I found
> 
> notmuch search --output=files $(date +%s -d 2010-01-01)..$(date +%s -d 
> 2010-12-31)
> 
> and how I can create a maildir (http://plasmasturm.org/log/81/)
> 
> So now I have to pipe the result from the notmuch command above to mv and 
> move it to
> $MAILDIR/ARCHIVE.2010/cur
> 
> Is this correct? How can I do this?

Above you wrote "all emails in a Maildir", which is why I suggested 
'mv'. For a more complex operation I would use my usual mail client 
(mutt in my case).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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OT: Sorting emails in maildir?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 10 dec 12, 12:30:32, Rainer M Krug wrote:
> Hi
> 
> This is slightly offtopic, but I would like to move all emails in a Maildir 
> folder into an Archive
> folder. What is the easiest way of doing this? I assume I ave to do this 
> outside notmuch, but is
> there an easy way? I have 250 000 emails on my gmail account, and this is 
> slowing many things down.
> 
> Any suggestions?

mv?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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Re: OT: Sorting emails in maildir?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 10 dec 12, 12:30:32, Rainer M Krug wrote:
 Hi
 
 This is slightly offtopic, but I would like to move all emails in a Maildir 
 folder into an Archive
 folder. What is the easiest way of doing this? I assume I ave to do this 
 outside notmuch, but is
 there an easy way? I have 250 000 emails on my gmail account, and this is 
 slowing many things down.
 
 Any suggestions?

mv?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: OT: Sorting emails in maildir?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 10 dec 12, 12:57:57, Rainer M Krug wrote:
 On 10/12/12 12:39, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  On Lu, 10 dec 12, 12:30:32, Rainer M Krug wrote:
  Hi
  
  This is slightly offtopic, but I would like to move all emails in a 
  Maildir folder into an
  Archive folder. What is the easiest way of doing this? I assume I ave to 
  do this outside
  notmuch, but is there an easy way? I have 250 000 emails on my gmail 
  account, and this is
  slowing many things down.
  
  Any suggestions?
  
  mv?
 
 I found
 
 notmuch search --output=files $(date +%s -d 2010-01-01)..$(date +%s -d 
 2010-12-31)
 
 and how I can create a maildir (http://plasmasturm.org/log/81/)
 
 So now I have to pipe the result from the notmuch command above to mv and 
 move it to
 $MAILDIR/ARCHIVE.2010/cur
 
 Is this correct? How can I do this?

Above you wrote all emails in a Maildir, which is why I suggested 
'mv'. For a more complex operation I would use my usual mail client 
(mutt in my case).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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[PATCH 0/2] automatic tagging based on imap maildir

[Andrei POPESCU]

[Remembered to Reply-All, my fingers are trained to Reply-List only ;) ]

On Du, 28 oct 12, 18:12:40, Austin Clements wrote:
> 
> Ah.  And I assume you want to see those in your inbox even if they're
> not a reply to some other message in your inbox?  I do recall Gmail
> suppressing list reflections.

Yes, except the Inbox part :p. As already mentioned, I sort all lists by 
List-Id and I want to have my own posts nicely in their place in the 
corresponding threads (cross-posts included). Most of the times I even 
read my posts again, to spot significant mistakes.

> Though I think that, by default, notmuch *will* put your own list
> postings in your inbox.  Assuming the list sends the message back to
> you (not all do), and assuming your notmuch new.tags contains inbox,
> notmuch will simply see it as a new message and tag it inbox.  If you
> have Fcc setup in your frontend of choice to save sent messages in a
> folder indexed by notmuch, then it should likewise tag the message
> inbox as soon as it indexes it.

Mmm, can't comment on that until I have a "full" notmuch client. Right 
now I'm using mutt and notmuch-mutt only.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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[PATCH 0/2] automatic tagging based on imap maildir

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 28 oct 12, 11:31:38, Austin Clements wrote:
> 
> Why does that cause you to not receive mailing lists?  (Or did I
> misinterpret your statement?)

Yes. The main deterrent in Gmail silently dropping my own postings 
returning via the list, because it considers it identical to the sent 
message.

> If I understand what you're saying, this is exactly what notmuch does.
> When you remove the "unread" tag, notmuch will (should?) add the
> "seen" maildir flag to all copies of that message in the file system
> (barring some corner-cases that flag sync doesn't handle well; maybe
> you're encountering one of those?).  And since notmuch never deletes
> files, they will remain in the folders they were filed in.

Great. Then I only need a client that suits me. I've wanted to have a 
look at mutt-kz, but keep postponing it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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[PATCH 0/2] automatic tagging based on imap maildir

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 27 oct 12, 10:00:46, David Bremner wrote:
> 
> As I said (or tried to say), in my opinion, duplication with an external
> package is not the main issue; I think moving features into the core
> when appropriate is a normal development process. On the other hand, I'm
> not really a gmail user, so I don't know yet if these patches solve
> enough of the problem to be interesting.

They are interesting not only for Gmail[1], but also for other kinds of 
setups. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong), 
currently notmuch treats multiple copies of a message similar to Gmail 
(indexes one, but ignores the rest), which is why I'm *not* receiving 
any mailing lists on my Gmail account.

Besides that consider also that I'm subscribed to about 40 mailing 
lists, each sorted to it's own folder by rules based on List-Id (which 
notmuch doesn't support yet as far as I know). This separation is very 
useful for my read-flow.

However, there are messages crossposed to several lists. It would be 
great if notmuch or (more probably) a client using notmuch could mark 
all copies of a message as read in all folders, but still keep it there 
(otherwise the thread in the respective folder is incomplete).

[1] yes, this is probably one missing feature that prevents me from 
putting my Gmail account in notmuch as well.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
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Re: [PATCH 0/2] automatic tagging based on imap maildir

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 27 oct 12, 10:00:46, David Bremner wrote:
 
 As I said (or tried to say), in my opinion, duplication with an external
 package is not the main issue; I think moving features into the core
 when appropriate is a normal development process. On the other hand, I'm
 not really a gmail user, so I don't know yet if these patches solve
 enough of the problem to be interesting.

They are interesting not only for Gmail[1], but also for other kinds of 
setups. As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong), 
currently notmuch treats multiple copies of a message similar to Gmail 
(indexes one, but ignores the rest), which is why I'm *not* receiving 
any mailing lists on my Gmail account.

Besides that consider also that I'm subscribed to about 40 mailing 
lists, each sorted to it's own folder by rules based on List-Id (which 
notmuch doesn't support yet as far as I know). This separation is very 
useful for my read-flow.

However, there are messages crossposed to several lists. It would be 
great if notmuch or (more probably) a client using notmuch could mark 
all copies of a message as read in all folders, but still keep it there 
(otherwise the thread in the respective folder is incomplete).

[1] yes, this is probably one missing feature that prevents me from 
putting my Gmail account in notmuch as well.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: [PATCH 0/2] automatic tagging based on imap maildir

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 28 oct 12, 11:31:38, Austin Clements wrote:
 
 Why does that cause you to not receive mailing lists?  (Or did I
 misinterpret your statement?)

Yes. The main deterrent in Gmail silently dropping my own postings 
returning via the list, because it considers it identical to the sent 
message.
 
 If I understand what you're saying, this is exactly what notmuch does.
 When you remove the unread tag, notmuch will (should?) add the
 seen maildir flag to all copies of that message in the file system
 (barring some corner-cases that flag sync doesn't handle well; maybe
 you're encountering one of those?).  And since notmuch never deletes
 files, they will remain in the folders they were filed in.

Great. Then I only need a client that suits me. I've wanted to have a 
look at mutt-kz, but keep postponing it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: [PATCH 0/2] automatic tagging based on imap maildir

[Andrei POPESCU]

[Remembered to Reply-All, my fingers are trained to Reply-List only ;) ]

On Du, 28 oct 12, 18:12:40, Austin Clements wrote:
 
 Ah.  And I assume you want to see those in your inbox even if they're
 not a reply to some other message in your inbox?  I do recall Gmail
 suppressing list reflections.

Yes, except the Inbox part :p. As already mentioned, I sort all lists by 
List-Id and I want to have my own posts nicely in their place in the 
corresponding threads (cross-posts included). Most of the times I even 
read my posts again, to spot significant mistakes.

 Though I think that, by default, notmuch *will* put your own list
 postings in your inbox.  Assuming the list sends the message back to
 you (not all do), and assuming your notmuch new.tags contains inbox,
 notmuch will simply see it as a new message and tag it inbox.  If you
 have Fcc setup in your frontend of choice to save sent messages in a
 folder indexed by notmuch, then it should likewise tag the message
 inbox as soon as it indexes it.

Mmm, can't comment on that until I have a full notmuch client. Right 
now I'm using mutt and notmuch-mutt only.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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notmuch-mutt: support for duplicate message removal

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 01 aug 12, 13:24:24, Jani Nikula wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012, Stefano Zacchiroli  wrote:
> >
> > Also, if you've further comments on the patch, do not hesitate!
> 
> I'm guessing you get the duplicates because you have dupes in the mail
> store, and 'notmuch search --output=files' prints all the filenames
> associated with each matching message, rather than any other reason. The
> presented approach will only remove identical files, and will leave
> behind files that are basically the same message, but have differing
> headers, e.g. due to being received through different channels. Is this
> what you want?

I'm at least one user that cares enough about the distinction to have 
all list mails received via a different address, just to avoid Gmail's 
"feature" of silently dropping my own messages received via a list. 
IMVHO it should at least be configurable...

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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Re: notmuch-mutt: support for duplicate message removal

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 01 aug 12, 13:24:24, Jani Nikula wrote:
 On Wed, 01 Aug 2012, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@upsilon.cc wrote:
 
  Also, if you've further comments on the patch, do not hesitate!
 
 I'm guessing you get the duplicates because you have dupes in the mail
 store, and 'notmuch search --output=files' prints all the filenames
 associated with each matching message, rather than any other reason. The
 presented approach will only remove identical files, and will leave
 behind files that are basically the same message, but have differing
 headers, e.g. due to being received through different channels. Is this
 what you want?

I'm at least one user that cares enough about the distinction to have 
all list mails received via a different address, just to avoid Gmail's 
feature of silently dropping my own messages received via a list. 
IMVHO it should at least be configurable...

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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Handling of symlinked maildirs?

[Andrei POPESCU]

Hi,

Im sorting my mailing lists with generic maildrop rules like this one:

if (/^List-Id:.*/)
to Maildir/.debian.$MATCH1/

However, I'm subscribed to a *lot* of mailing lists and in order to keep 
my folder view sane I use symlinks to conflate some of them, e.g. 

.debian.devel-announce -> .debian.devel

This works well since mutt simply ignores the symlink(s) so I don't even 
need to exclude them in the config, but it seems that notmuch does index 
each of the symlinks as a separate folder[1].

Does it make sense to have this configurable or even completely exclude 
the symlinks?

On a somewhat related note, unless I'm missing something, notmuch is 
currently indexing only a few header fields, not including List-Id, and 
there is no way to add custom fields. Am I correct?

The reason I'm asking is that in theory one could completely drop any 
sorting (just drop all mail in one folder) and use something like 
'list-id: debian-devel' instead.

Yes, I'm aware that one could work around it by using To:/Cc:, but I'd 
like to distinguish between messages received via the mailing list or 
directly to my private address, otherwise I'd be using Gmail for 
everything anyway :)

[1] this also causes mutt-notmuch to generate a lot of errors when it 
tries to symlink the same message twice to the cache maildir.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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Handling of symlinked maildirs?

[Andrei POPESCU]

Hi,

Im sorting my mailing lists with generic maildrop rules like this one:

if (/^List-Id:.*debian-(.*)\.lists.debian.org/)
to Maildir/.debian.$MATCH1/

However, I'm subscribed to a *lot* of mailing lists and in order to keep 
my folder view sane I use symlinks to conflate some of them, e.g. 

.debian.devel-announce - .debian.devel

This works well since mutt simply ignores the symlink(s) so I don't even 
need to exclude them in the config, but it seems that notmuch does index 
each of the symlinks as a separate folder[1].

Does it make sense to have this configurable or even completely exclude 
the symlinks?

On a somewhat related note, unless I'm missing something, notmuch is 
currently indexing only a few header fields, not including List-Id, and 
there is no way to add custom fields. Am I correct?

The reason I'm asking is that in theory one could completely drop any 
sorting (just drop all mail in one folder) and use something like 
'list-id: debian-devel' instead.

Yes, I'm aware that one could work around it by using To:/Cc:, but I'd 
like to distinguish between messages received via the mailing list or 
directly to my private address, otherwise I'd be using Gmail for 
everything anyway :)

[1] this also causes mutt-notmuch to generate a lot of errors when it 
tries to symlink the same message twice to the cache maildir.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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notmuch and Debian's BTS/PTS [was: Re: [Joerg Jaspert] Bug#666027: notmuch: get a quiet option]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 29 mar 12, 07:34:15, David Bremner wrote:
> We could give it a try and see how it works.  I suspect it needs the
> assistance of one of the notmuch list moderators (which I understand we
> have delegates for as of a few days ago) to get the BTS able to send to
> the list. Any Debian savvy volunteers to sort this out?

If there's something I can do...

Does it make sense to subscribe the list to PTS[1] instead? I'd say the 
bts, bts-control, buildd, default and contact keywords[2] make sense.

[1] Package Tracking System
[2] 
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/resources.html#pkg-tracking-system

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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notmuch and Debian's BTS/PTS [was: Re: [Joerg Jaspert] Bug#666027: notmuch: get a quiet option]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 29 mar 12, 07:34:15, David Bremner wrote:
 We could give it a try and see how it works.  I suspect it needs the
 assistance of one of the notmuch list moderators (which I understand we
 have delegates for as of a few days ago) to get the BTS able to send to
 the list. Any Debian savvy volunteers to sort this out?

If there's something I can do...

Does it make sense to subscribe the list to PTS[1] instead? I'd say the 
bts, bts-control, buildd, default and contact keywords[2] make sense.

[1] Package Tracking System
[2] 
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/resources.html#pkg-tracking-system

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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[RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 17 mar 12, 13:16:47, Austin Clements wrote:
> Quoth Andrei POPESCU on Mar 17 at  4:40 pm:
> > > > As I see it, the manpage (specifically section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' needs to 
> > > > be expanded somewhat and 'help search-terms' shortened (a lot).
> 
> I realized that I didn't have a 'SEARCH SYNTAX' section and went
> digging into notmuch's code history.  Are you running from git or
> 0.11?

0.11 (Debian unstable/backports), but I just saw 0.12~rc1 in 
experimental.

> We completely restructured and unified the documentation several
> months ago, but it looks like we did so just days after the 0.11
> freeze, which means there hasn't been a stable release with the new
> documentation yet (though one is imminent).

Guess I should be looking at git then.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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[RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 16 mar 12, 20:20:17, Austin Clements wrote:
> 
> It is, quite literally, the manpage.  notmuch execs man when you run
> notmuch help.

Aha.

> This was an intentional change a few releases ago.  Previously, we did
> have separate manpages and internal help documentation and it didn't
> work very well since they were perpetually out of sync.  Hence the
> general concern about documentation fragmentation.

Of course, I understand.

> > This opinion is based also on what I see around at other terminal 
> > applications. The '--help' is seldom longer than a few lines and just 
> > lists the available options and parameters (more like a refresher). The 
> > manpage then explains them in more detail.
> 
> That's true of simple commands, but most commands with subcommands
> follow a style like notmuch.  In fact, notmuch's approach was modeled
> directly off of git, and most modern VCSs do similar things.

'git help' and 'man git' are quite different on my system, but I get the 
point.

> > As I see it, the manpage (specifically section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' needs to 
> > be expanded somewhat and 'help search-terms' shortened (a lot).
> 
> What did you think of my suggestion that the first thing in man
> search-terms be a short reference so that's what you see immediately
> when you run notmuch help search-terms?  That seems to accomplish what
> you want without fragmenting the documentation and seems like a good
> way to write the documentation anyway.

I still have a question: where does the first part of
'notmuch help search-terms' come from? I can't find the corresponding 
section in the manpage? How about expanding that part just a bit and not 
show the text that comes from the manpage?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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[RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 15 mar 12, 22:11:24, Austin Clements wrote:
> Quoth Andrei POPESCU on Mar 16 at  2:30 am:
> > 
> > $ notmuch help search-terms | wc -l
> > 88
> > 
> > IMHO that text is better suited for a manpage, the help should be just a 
> > (very short) reference to refresh ones memory. What do you think?
> 
> I'm not quite sure what you mean.  That text is the man page.  Though
> it sounds like a great idea to have a quick syntax reference at the
> top of the manpage so it's the first thing people see when they run
> 'notmuch help search-terms' (and they can still scroll down to get the
> details if they want).

On Vi, 16 mar 12, 13:52:35, David Bremner wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 02:30:53 +0200, Andrei POPESCU  gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm less worried about the length of the documentation than about
> fragmentation. So I think if something is reference material, it should
> go in the man pages, or at least ship with notmuch.

What I mean is that 'notmuch help search-terms' is too verbose. IMHO 
there should be very good reasons to have it longer than 20 lines or so. 
Instead it's the entire section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' from the manpage.

This opinion is based also on what I see around at other terminal 
applications. The '--help' is seldom longer than a few lines and just 
lists the available options and parameters (more like a refresher). The 
manpage then explains them in more detail.

As I see it, the manpage (specifically section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' needs to 
be expanded somewhat and 'help search-terms' shortened (a lot).

Does this make sense?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
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Re: [RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 16 mar 12, 20:20:17, Austin Clements wrote:
 
 It is, quite literally, the manpage.  notmuch execs man when you run
 notmuch help.

Aha.
 
 This was an intentional change a few releases ago.  Previously, we did
 have separate manpages and internal help documentation and it didn't
 work very well since they were perpetually out of sync.  Hence the
 general concern about documentation fragmentation.

Of course, I understand.

  This opinion is based also on what I see around at other terminal 
  applications. The '--help' is seldom longer than a few lines and just 
  lists the available options and parameters (more like a refresher). The 
  manpage then explains them in more detail.
 
 That's true of simple commands, but most commands with subcommands
 follow a style like notmuch.  In fact, notmuch's approach was modeled
 directly off of git, and most modern VCSs do similar things.

'git help' and 'man git' are quite different on my system, but I get the 
point.

  As I see it, the manpage (specifically section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' needs to 
  be expanded somewhat and 'help search-terms' shortened (a lot).
 
 What did you think of my suggestion that the first thing in man
 search-terms be a short reference so that's what you see immediately
 when you run notmuch help search-terms?  That seems to accomplish what
 you want without fragmenting the documentation and seems like a good
 way to write the documentation anyway.

I still have a question: where does the first part of
'notmuch help search-terms' come from? I can't find the corresponding 
section in the manpage? How about expanding that part just a bit and not 
show the text that comes from the manpage?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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Re: [RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 17 mar 12, 13:16:47, Austin Clements wrote:
 Quoth Andrei POPESCU on Mar 17 at  4:40 pm:
As I see it, the manpage (specifically section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' needs to 
be expanded somewhat and 'help search-terms' shortened (a lot).
 
 I realized that I didn't have a 'SEARCH SYNTAX' section and went
 digging into notmuch's code history.  Are you running from git or
 0.11?

0.11 (Debian unstable/backports), but I just saw 0.12~rc1 in 
experimental.
 
 We completely restructured and unified the documentation several
 months ago, but it looks like we did so just days after the 0.11
 freeze, which means there hasn't been a stable release with the new
 documentation yet (though one is imminent).

Guess I should be looking at git then.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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[RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 15 mar 12, 17:11:08, Austin Clements wrote:
> 
> I think having two divergent documents covering the same thing is less
> than ideal, but perhaps they could be merged in the near future.

I want to have this page more or less complete and descriptive. Once 
this is done I should be able to rewrite it more like a reference.

Regarding 'notmuch help search-terms':

$ notmuch help search-terms | wc -l
88

IMHO that text is better suited for a manpage, the help should be just a 
(very short) reference to refresh ones memory. What do you think?

> A few comments:
> 
> The section on "Languages other than English" isn't quite correct.
> Xapian has no idea what language is being used, so it will still stem
> terms in other languages, but using English stemming rules.

Then I think it's safe to assume the results are very much dependent on 
the language, so if the language has some similarities to English Xapian 
might do some stemming.

> Notmuch doesn't use synonyms.

Thanks.

> It might be worth pointing out that "+term1" and "term1" are
> equivalent.

Yes.

> "notmuch search -term2" doesn't actually work.  I've never looked in
> to why, but I've found that Xapian ignores '-' at the beginning of a
> query or a parenthesized expression.

Not sure what you mean here. Does Xapian just ignore the '-' and 
searches as if it wasn't specified? I'm usually testing stuff with 
'notmuch count', but I get:

$ notmuch count -Debian
Unrecognized option: -Debian

With 'search' I get results, but right now I can't think of a query to 
test.

> "notmuch search term1 -term2" will work.

Does 'notmuch search -term1 term2' work?

> In the brackets section, you'll need shell escaping for those queries
> to work.  It might be worth pointing out the need for shell escaping
> at the beginning.

Right, anything other than brackets and '*'?

> XOR, NEAR, and ADJ were intentionally undocumented in
> notmuch-search-terms because they may go away some day and we don't
> want people thinking they can depend on them.

In such case I think it's better to state so.

I'll integrate all your comments (if somebody else doesn't beat me to 
it).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)
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Re: [RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 15 mar 12, 22:11:24, Austin Clements wrote:
 Quoth Andrei POPESCU on Mar 16 at  2:30 am:
  
  $ notmuch help search-terms | wc -l
  88
  
  IMHO that text is better suited for a manpage, the help should be just a 
  (very short) reference to refresh ones memory. What do you think?
 
 I'm not quite sure what you mean.  That text is the man page.  Though
 it sounds like a great idea to have a quick syntax reference at the
 top of the manpage so it's the first thing people see when they run
 'notmuch help search-terms' (and they can still scroll down to get the
 details if they want).

On Vi, 16 mar 12, 13:52:35, David Bremner wrote:
 On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 02:30:53 +0200, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 I'm less worried about the length of the documentation than about
 fragmentation. So I think if something is reference material, it should
 go in the man pages, or at least ship with notmuch.

What I mean is that 'notmuch help search-terms' is too verbose. IMHO 
there should be very good reasons to have it longer than 20 lines or so. 
Instead it's the entire section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' from the manpage.

This opinion is based also on what I see around at other terminal 
applications. The '--help' is seldom longer than a few lines and just 
lists the available options and parameters (more like a refresher). The 
manpage then explains them in more detail.

As I see it, the manpage (specifically section 'SEARCH SYNTAX' needs to 
be expanded somewhat and 'help search-terms' shortened (a lot).

Does this make sense?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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[RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 17 ian 12, 17:29:23, Austin Clements wrote:
> Quoth Andrei Popescu on Jan 18 at 12:14 am:
> > 
> > If I get around to write something myself where do you suggest I should 
> > start, the wiki or the manpage?
> 
> Probably expanding man/man7/notmuch-search-terms.7 would be the way to
> go.

I went against your advice and created a new wiki page[1]. It is 
currently not linked from anywhere on purpose, but IMVHO it would be 
nice to have it linked from the home page.

[1] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/

Before that I would appreciate comments, corrections, etc. and 
especially something to put in the 'Synonyms' section.

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
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[RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 17 ian 12, 17:29:23, Austin Clements wrote:
 Quoth Andrei Popescu on Jan 18 at 12:14 am:
  
  If I get around to write something myself where do you suggest I should 
  start, the wiki or the manpage?
 
 Probably expanding man/man7/notmuch-search-terms.7 would be the way to
 go.

I went against your advice and created a new wiki page[1]. It is 
currently not linked from anywhere on purpose, but IMVHO it would be 
nice to have it linked from the home page.

[1] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/

Before that I would appreciate comments, corrections, etc. and 
especially something to put in the 'Synonyms' section.

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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Re: [RFC] http://notmuchmail.org/searching/ [was: Re: Improving notmuch query documentation]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 15 mar 12, 17:11:08, Austin Clements wrote:
 
 I think having two divergent documents covering the same thing is less
 than ideal, but perhaps they could be merged in the near future.

I want to have this page more or less complete and descriptive. Once 
this is done I should be able to rewrite it more like a reference.

Regarding 'notmuch help search-terms':

$ notmuch help search-terms | wc -l
88

IMHO that text is better suited for a manpage, the help should be just a 
(very short) reference to refresh ones memory. What do you think?
 
 A few comments:
 
 The section on Languages other than English isn't quite correct.
 Xapian has no idea what language is being used, so it will still stem
 terms in other languages, but using English stemming rules.

Then I think it's safe to assume the results are very much dependent on 
the language, so if the language has some similarities to English Xapian 
might do some stemming.

 Notmuch doesn't use synonyms.

Thanks.

 It might be worth pointing out that +term1 and term1 are
 equivalent.

Yes.

 notmuch search -term2 doesn't actually work.  I've never looked in
 to why, but I've found that Xapian ignores '-' at the beginning of a
 query or a parenthesized expression.

Not sure what you mean here. Does Xapian just ignore the '-' and 
searches as if it wasn't specified? I'm usually testing stuff with 
'notmuch count', but I get:

$ notmuch count -Debian
Unrecognized option: -Debian

With 'search' I get results, but right now I can't think of a query to 
test.

 notmuch search term1 -term2 will work.

Does 'notmuch search -term1 term2' work?

 In the brackets section, you'll need shell escaping for those queries
 to work.  It might be worth pointing out the need for shell escaping
 at the beginning.

Right, anything other than brackets and '*'?

 XOR, NEAR, and ADJ were intentionally undocumented in
 notmuch-search-terms because they may go away some day and we don't
 want people thinking they can depend on them.

In such case I think it's better to state so.

I'll integrate all your comments (if somebody else doesn't beat me to 
it).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Improving notmuch query documentation [was: Re: Partial words on notmuch search?]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Lu, 16 ian 12, 21:34:31, Austin Clements wrote:
> Quoth Andrei Popescu on Jan 16 at 10:21 pm:
> > This is also interesting:
> > $ notmuch count 'debian'
> > 65888
> > $ notmuch count 'dEbian'
> > 65888
> > $ notmuch count 'Debian'
> > 65887
> 
> The first two will match stemmed versions of "debian" such as
> "debian's" and "debianed".  However, starting a term with a capital
> letter suppresses stemming (because it suggests that it's a name,
> which you wouldn't want to modify), so your last query matches only
> the term "debian".  This is probably documented somewhere, though I
> don't know where.

Stemming is mentioned in the Xapian docs, but I didn't understand the 
meaning until I read your explanation, thanks :)

> > Where can I read more about this? (except the source :)
> 
> Most of this is in the Xapian query syntax document you found.  Really
> we ought to beef-up Notmuch's query syntax documentation.

If I get around to write something myself where do you suggest I should 
start, the wiki or the manpage?

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
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Partial words on notmuch search?

[Andrei Popescu]

On Lu, 16 ian 12, 18:26:21, David Bremner wrote:
> 
> You have to delve into the mysteries of xapian query parsing
> unfortunately.

Aha, after a quick (web) search I found:
http://xapian.org/docs/queryparser.html

Am I correct to assume this is "the" reference I was looking for?

> The short answer is that "*" only works at the end of a word.

Thanks,
Andrei
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Improving notmuch query documentation [was: Re: Partial words on notmuch search?]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Lu, 16 ian 12, 21:34:31, Austin Clements wrote:
 Quoth Andrei Popescu on Jan 16 at 10:21 pm:
  This is also interesting:
  $ notmuch count 'debian'
  65888
  $ notmuch count 'dEbian'
  65888
  $ notmuch count 'Debian'
  65887
 
 The first two will match stemmed versions of debian such as
 debian's and debianed.  However, starting a term with a capital
 letter suppresses stemming (because it suggests that it's a name,
 which you wouldn't want to modify), so your last query matches only
 the term debian.  This is probably documented somewhere, though I
 don't know where.

Stemming is mentioned in the Xapian docs, but I didn't understand the 
meaning until I read your explanation, thanks :)

  Where can I read more about this? (except the source :)
 
 Most of this is in the Xapian query syntax document you found.  Really
 we ought to beef-up Notmuch's query syntax documentation.

If I get around to write something myself where do you suggest I should 
start, the wiki or the manpage?

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Partial words on notmuch search?

[Andrei Popescu]

On Du, 15 ian 12, 17:07:36, mailinglists at nawaz.org wrote:
> 
> Use '*'.
> 
> For example, Obam* should match "Obama".

Hmm...

$ notmuch count 'Debian'
65888
$ notmuch count '*ebian'
3
$ notmuch count '?ebian'
3
$ notmuch count 'ebian'
3
$ notmuch count '0ebian'
0

As far as I can tell, anything that is not a number or a letter is just 
stripped.

This is also interesting:
$ notmuch count 'debian'
65888
$ notmuch count 'dEbian'
65888
$ notmuch count 'Debian'
65887

Where can I read more about this? (except the source :)

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
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Partial words on notmuch search?

[Andrei Popescu]

Hi everybody,

I'm using notmuch 0.10.2 from Debian backports with Stefano Zacchiroli's 
mutt integration (but I've also tried the command line interface).

After reading all the docs and a few experiments I don't see how to do 
searches on partial words. If I missed the fine manual mentioning that 
I'd be glad to RTFM, just please point me to the right FM :)

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
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Re: Partial words on notmuch search?

[Andrei Popescu]

On Lu, 16 ian 12, 18:26:21, David Bremner wrote:
 
 You have to delve into the mysteries of xapian query parsing
 unfortunately.

Aha, after a quick (web) search I found:
http://xapian.org/docs/queryparser.html

Am I correct to assume this is the reference I was looking for?

 The short answer is that * only works at the end of a word.

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Partial words on notmuch search?

[Andrei Popescu]

Hi everybody,

I'm using notmuch 0.10.2 from Debian backports with Stefano Zacchiroli's 
mutt integration (but I've also tried the command line interface).

After reading all the docs and a few experiments I don't see how to do 
searches on partial words. If I missed the fine manual mentioning that 
I'd be glad to RTFM, just please point me to the right FM :)

Thanks,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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