[notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

> I'd had much better luck matching List-Id than matching addresses in
> recent years.  YMMV.

As long as you're not CC:d, you're fine.  If you're CC:'d, well, Mailman
is more brain-dead than you could imagine.

Mike.

Re: [notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

> I'd had much better luck matching List-Id than matching addresses in
> recent years.  YMMV.

As long as you're not CC:d, you're fine.  If you're CC:'d, well, Mailman
is more brain-dead than you could imagine.

Mike.
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[notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:55:20 +0600
Mikhail Gusarov  wrote:

> 
> Twas brillig at 13:52:20 04.12.2009 UTC-05 when
> mdorman at ironicdesign.com did gyre and gimble:
> 
>  MAD> Err, this makes no sense.  How can Mailman have any knowledge
>  MAD> of, and therefore "do anything" to any message that came by way
>  MAD> of a CC?
> 
> for each subscriber:
>   if subscriber.email in message.cc:
>  continue
>   ...
>   # delivery

I stand corrected---it seems like a gigantic misfeature to me, so
much so that I checked and apparently that is exactly how Mailman
works in its default configuration.

My apologies for suggesting you didn't know what you were talking
about.  I made the mistake of assuming sane software.

Mike.
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[notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

> But the above sounds like the List-Id header is unreliable enough to
> be useless.

In my current .sieve setup, I have 93 entries for mailing lists.  87
of them use list-id[1].  3 use list-post.  1 uses 'mailing-list', but
looking at it, could be switched to list-id.  2 use x-mailing-list
(blasted vger.kernel.org).

None of my email gets misfiled, so it seems pretty darn reliable to
me. :)

Now, if you have an MTA that does duplicate suppression based on
message-id, you probably won't see the copy of a message that went to
the list if you're cc:'d on it because the direct copy (sans list-id
header) is likely to arrive first.

I would argue that that's a feature not a bug---the sender, at least,
hopes you will give it closer scrutiny because you were CC:'d.  They're
trying to bring it to your attention.

Besides, in notmuch, what's the difference going to be?  It'll still be
threaded the same, etc., but you'd be able to tell that this one came
to you rather than through the list, no?

(I'm waiting for Debian packages, lazy bastard that I am, so I'm
guessing on that)

> Any reason not to just use something like
> to:notmuch at notmuchmail to match messages sent to a list like this one?

On the linux-kernel list, l-k often isn't in the to: field---or does
notmuch also index the cc: as to:?  If it does, this could work; if
not, FAIL.

Mike.
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[notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:07:36 +0600
Mikhail Gusarov  wrote:

> The only problem with Cc is that Mailman suppresses duplicate
> messages and hence there is no List-Id: on message.

Err, this makes no sense.  How can Mailman have any knowledge of, and
therefore "do anything" to any message that came by way of a CC?

Now, your mail transfer agent might do duplicate suppression, and if
the direct email reaches you before the one that went through the
mailing list, you won't have a copy that includes the list-id header,
but that's an issue on your end, not with the mailing list software.

Mike.
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Re: [notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:55:20 +0600
Mikhail Gusarov  wrote:

> 
> Twas brillig at 13:52:20 04.12.2009 UTC-05 when
> mdor...@ironicdesign.com did gyre and gimble:
> 
>  MAD> Err, this makes no sense.  How can Mailman have any knowledge
>  MAD> of, and therefore "do anything" to any message that came by way
>  MAD> of a CC?
> 
> for each subscriber:
>   if subscriber.email in message.cc:
>  continue
>   ...
>   # delivery

I stand corrected---it seems like a gigantic misfeature to me, so
much so that I checked and apparently that is exactly how Mailman
works in its default configuration.

My apologies for suggesting you didn't know what you were talking
about.  I made the mistake of assuming sane software.

Mike.


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Re: [notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

> But the above sounds like the List-Id header is unreliable enough to
> be useless.

In my current .sieve setup, I have 93 entries for mailing lists.  87
of them use list-id[1].  3 use list-post.  1 uses 'mailing-list', but
looking at it, could be switched to list-id.  2 use x-mailing-list
(blasted vger.kernel.org).

None of my email gets misfiled, so it seems pretty darn reliable to
me. :)

Now, if you have an MTA that does duplicate suppression based on
message-id, you probably won't see the copy of a message that went to
the list if you're cc:'d on it because the direct copy (sans list-id
header) is likely to arrive first.

I would argue that that's a feature not a bug---the sender, at least,
hopes you will give it closer scrutiny because you were CC:'d.  They're
trying to bring it to your attention.

Besides, in notmuch, what's the difference going to be?  It'll still be
threaded the same, etc., but you'd be able to tell that this one came
to you rather than through the list, no?

(I'm waiting for Debian packages, lazy bastard that I am, so I'm
guessing on that)

> Any reason not to just use something like
> to:notm...@notmuchmail to match messages sent to a list like this one?

On the linux-kernel list, l-k often isn't in the to: field---or does
notmuch also index the cc: as to:?  If it does, this could work; if
not, FAIL.

Mike.


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Re: [notmuch] [PATCH (rebased)] Handle message renames in mail spool

[Michael Alan Dorman]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:07:36 +0600
Mikhail Gusarov  wrote:

> The only problem with Cc is that Mailman suppresses duplicate
> messages and hence there is no List-Id: on message.

Err, this makes no sense.  How can Mailman have any knowledge of, and
therefore "do anything" to any message that came by way of a CC?

Now, your mail transfer agent might do duplicate suppression, and if
the direct email reaches you before the one that went through the
mailing list, you won't have a copy that includes the list-id header,
but that's an issue on your end, not with the mailing list software.

Mike.


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