[NSP] Re: Rusty Gulley
Hemiola was certainly used in 18th c pipe music - it survives in 'Cuddy Claw'd Her' - besides the syncopated alternate bars, there is a strain, no 6 in Peacock, which has a clear 3 crotchet beats in the bar. Play the top g's short and it sounds that way. You can play it in 6/8 too. The pipe-style fiddle version 'Cutie Clat Her' plays all sorts of rhythmic games - the hemiola near the end is relatively staid. Some of the Dixon tunes in 9/4 have rhythms (in at most one strain/tune) which seem to go, Turkish style, 2+2+2+3, rather than the standard 3+3+3. Strain 2 of Dorrington is an example. But whether Rusty Gulley was played as a guajira remains open Do any other sources notate it spaced as 3/4 + 6/8? Matt might know?? John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 July 2008 21:55 To: Matt Seattle; Gibbons, John Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Rusty Gulley On 8 Jul 2008, Gibbons, John wrote: Oh good - taking about the music! I'm reading (or attempting to plough through most of) a heavy duty tome called the History of Violin Playing from its inception to 1761 by John Boyden. In talking of Renaissance rhythms it talks of hemiola - alternating bars of 3 and 2, used in the dances called courantes, amongst other places The best description I can find is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemiola but this is surely what Rusty Gulley et al. can do (if one wants them to). I'm running at the limit of my knowledge of early music terms with this, so maybe some of the experts on such who lurk here can contribute - or indeed tell me if I'm wide of the mark. There's also a section on how old style bows and instruments resulted in very distinct articulation between notes, but that's a whole 'nother discussion. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rusty Gulley
Good examples, John. Everything you mention here I would consider as syncopation rather than change of metre, or in the case of Risty Gulley, alternating metre. Maybe this is a too-subtle distinction, but it's one that I experience. I use syncopation a lot in my own playing, and for me it works precisely because the underlying 'straight' rhythm is there as a context for the sophisticated syncopations snaking sinuously out of my chanter. AFAIK no other sources notate RG in alternating metre. Why would they? It's simply wrong. Not to put too fine a point on it, Vickers was 'sort-of' musically literate - he knew what he meant, but didn't write it 'correctly'. When *played in G*, does Jack Lattin have one sharp, as everyone else plays it, or three sharps, as Vickers writes? Numerous other examples can be cited. One thing I learnt in the 21-year gap between my editions of Vickers was context. There is a huge contextual literature around many of these tunes; when the only person saying something different from *everyone else* is not known for his accuracy he is not necessarily the genius who is the only one to discern the truth, even if some of us find his quirks appealing. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Colin Ross C chanter for sale
Dear All, I am looking for a good home for a Colin Ross 7 key C chanter, as Colin has just made me a new one with additional keys. It is a superb chanter and Colin gave it a complete check over in June this year. It is made from Lignum Vitae wood, with keys etc in brass and a chanter base end of imitation ivory. Lively, loud and well rounded tone, in superb condition. It also has a detachable plug in extended stock at the top to protect the reed, a cleaning rod and spare reed. As stated I am looking for a good home for it, so thought to offer it here before advertising elsewhere. I am looking for a sum of around £450 for it. If you wish to contact me direct for further information etc, my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED],com and my mobile is +44 [0] 7808 173 483. Ken Campbell Scotland To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rusty Gulley
I'd agree, Matt, about the subtle distinction. On NSP, highly-developed chanter skills are required to make evident any differences in emphasis - we can't use dynamics and ought not to be choyting, so instead we rely on subtle adjustments to note length. However. on first hearing All the Night With Jockey years ago (albeit with the wrong drone tuning) it struck me that the underlying straight rhythm can be heard in different ways and one can perceive a difference in emphasis according to how one chooses to listen to the tune. Sometimes it's best to play the piece 'straight' and let the inherent syncopations speak for themselves (I never thought I'd believe all that bunkum from the modern jazz people about learning to listen differently grin) A more-recent example is the variation on Jim Hall's Fancy (I think it's the last one, that was er..., borrowed from Clough's Nae Guid Luck variations), where the minuet-style rhythm momentarily gives way to jig time, no matter where one tries to put the emphasis!! Chris -Original Message- From: Matt Seattle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 July 2008 10:32 To: Gibbons, John Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Rusty Gulley Good examples, John. Everything you mention here I would consider as syncopation rather than change of metre, or in the case of Risty Gulley, alternating metre. Maybe this is a too-subtle distinction, but it's one that I experience. I use syncopation a lot in my own playing, and for me it works precisely because the underlying 'straight' rhythm is there as a context for the sophisticated syncopations snaking sinuously out of my chanter. AFAIK no other sources notate RG in alternating metre. Why would they? It's simply wrong. Not to put too fine a point on it, Vickers was 'sort-of' musically literate - he knew what he meant, but didn't write it 'correctly'. When *played in G*, does Jack Lattin have one sharp, as everyone else plays it, or three sharps, as Vickers writes? Numerous other examples can be cited. One thing I learnt in the 21-year gap between my editions of Vickers was context. There is a huge contextual literature around many of these tunes; when the only person saying something different from *everyone else* is not known for his accuracy he is not necessarily the genius who is the only one to discern the truth, even if some of us find his quirks appealing. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
[NSP] Re: Rusty Gulley
Colin, On my reading of Dixon, strain 4 is the one that makes most sense that way. Number 2 can play this way too. Strain 1, with the e's falling on the (dotted minim) beat, definitely reads as 9/4= 3 times 3/4 to me. So does strain 3. From 5 onwards, the interest is melodic, not rhythmic - they are definitely 3 times 3/4. So at most 2 of the 9 strains can carry this reading. To get a jazz musician to play 2+2+2+3, tell him to think of Brubeck's 'Blue rondo alla Turk' John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 July 2008 18:04 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Rusty Gulley Actually not about RG but to mention that Bert Lloyd had me play My Dearie Sits Ower Late Up (Adam Bell) in 3/2 3/4 rhythm on The Iron Muse (Topic) instead of the straight 9/8 as written which I managed quite well but it got the jazz bass player Jim Bray some time to get the 1-2-3-123 beat in his head to pluck it out on his double bass. Bert was fond of his Eastern European songs at the time and I always wondered if he really thought the tune should have been written out like that. I had come across 6/8 tunes in the Atkinson MS played in 'another' way like that with the six notes paired in three beats instead of two threes as far as I remember. Are these simple mathematical jokes or do they relate to some obscure dance rhythms. In the case of Vickers maybe he just didn't get it. Syncopation gone too far but still alive and kicking as was heard at the Proms folk concert. I remember when we thought that Wilja Fjord was the last word in groovy syncopation until Andy Irvine came! back from Eastern Europe playing those compound rhythms on his bazouki. And so on Colin AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
