[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
This method was used in my Pipemaking class for milling out slots for the keys although I now use a router in the tool post for my own work. Coliun R -Original Message- From: Bob Salter bob.sal...@blueyonder.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:31 Subject: [NSP] Pipemaking query Hi everyone, Im Bob, an amateur pipemaker from Scotland. I wondered if I was allowed to ask pipemaking questions on this list? I first tried to make nsp about twenty years ago. The drones and reeds came out ok But I have never managed to successfully make a chanter as cutting the key slots is always disastrous. I recently bought a myford metal lathe for reamer making for other pipes and was thinking about a flex drive system mounted in the cross slide for slot cutting. How do you do yours and is my idea workable? Thanks ( and apologies if questions of this type are not allowed) Bob Salter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
Bob Salter wrote: Hi Malcolm, I make my drills from silver steel. There is a cad program called allycad which offers a free for home use program capable of reading Mike Nelsons drawings. Its a pity that a few details are missing from Mikes otherwise brilliant site. He mentions a modifed slot drill for cutting the key seats but the description isnt there. I dont suppose anyone knows what that might be? No. I just use 2.5 and 5mm slot drills for single/double keys with 10 thou brass linings and 20 thou for the double key divider. The C and B book shows artificial brass and cane(plastic now I think) How good are those sizes for modern pipes? You need a copy of Colin Ross's reedmaking book. Cheers Richard -- Richard Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
Bob Salter wrote: Thank you for your replies. I have long considered using a dremel in this way. However I lack the invention gene ( I can copy anything but not invent). I never could figure out how to secure my dremel so it didnt move. Could you throw a little light please. I have never done this but I would probably make a cradle out of 12mm mdf using the 4-jaw to cut a circular dremel-size hole in a square piece- cut the square in half to form two cradle sections, attach these to a small base board and fit to lathe using vertical slide. The mdf is plenty strong enough and will damp vibration. Improvise! Cheers Richard -- Richard Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
Bob, I mount the chanter in a jig mounted on the cross slide and mill out the slots with a milling bit held in the lathe chuck. That works fine. More recently, I've bought a small milling machine and intend to do the same operation with that. I'd guess that your proposed method of using a flex drive system accurately and securely mounted on the cross slide could work very well, but will need extra care. If you're proposing to do this with the chanter mounted between centres, then I'd suggest the following: - Ensure that the chuck is completely locked and unable to revolve. Any play will spoil your work. - Devise some support for the chanter along its length since it will be fairly 'whippy' when turned to final diameters. - Because of the above, very light cuts! And of course . . . - Practise on a dummy workpiece first! You have a Myford 7 which is an ideal machine for the purpose. Worth remembering that early makers had nothing comparable. There were highly sophisticated lathes in use but mainly for ornamental turning and usually in the possession of wealthy amateurs. Robert Reid would have had nothing comparable and would probably have cut his key slots with a fine saw and chisel. I did the same with my first ever set using an X-ACTO saw blade.That was entirely successful. ( and apologies if questions of this type are not allowed) I'm sure such questions are completely welcome here and I hope you receive other responses. Francis Wood On 30 Jan 2010, at 18:31, Bob Salter wrote: Hi everyone, Im Bob, an amateur pipemaker from Scotland. I wondered if I was allowed to ask pipemaking questions on this list? I first tried to make nsp about twenty years ago. The drones and reeds came out ok But I have never managed to successfully make a chanter as cutting the key slots is always disastrous. I recently bought a myford metal lathe for reamer making for other pipes and was thinking about a flex drive system mounted in the cross slide for slot cutting. How do you do yours and is my idea workable? Thanks ( and apologies if questions of this type are not allowed) Bob Salter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
Francis Wood wrote: Bob, I mount the chanter in a jig mounted on the cross slide and mill out the slots with a milling bit held in the lathe chuck. That works fine. More recently, I've bought a small milling machine and intend to do the same operation with that. I'd guess that your proposed method of using a flex drive system accurately and securely mounted on the cross slide could work very well, but will need extra care. If you're proposing to do this with the chanter mounted between centres, then I'd suggest the following: - Ensure that the chuck is completely locked and unable to revolve. Any play will spoil your work. - Devise some support for the chanter along its length since it will be fairly 'whippy' when turned to final diameters. - Because of the above, very light cuts! And of course . . . - Practise on a dummy workpiece first! I'd add to the above that low-cost flex drives often have quite a lot of free play lengthwise so that the chuck and bit can move in and out by up to a mm or so- check that first because it will make accurate depth hard to achieve. A dremel drill on the vertical slide is good. For years, I used a router mounted in the vertical slide with a 6mm collet, using slot drills as cutters. Also of course see Mike Nelson's website here: http://www.machineconcepts.co.uk/smallpipes/pipe1.htm I should add that although I've been a pro maker for eight years and semi-pro for much longer, I almost never get asked a technical question and they very rarely come up on this forum. Similarly, I was a technical advisor to the Lowland and Borders Pipers Society for several years. When I took the job on, I asked my predecessor what I would need to do. Nothing, he said, nobody ever asks anything. And he was dead right- not a question over a three year period! Cheers Richard -- Richard Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
Dear Bob; I too am an ammateur maker although if you manage to flog a set which I have in the past then I suppose it makes me a semi pro maker. You seem to have been more successful that I have in gaining a response to a request for information as past blogs indicate from the sublime to the ridiculous in reply. Tone holes seem to be something which irritate every maker when asked to supply their own tweaked measurements after many years of manufacture. The low notes are the most difficult to obtain ie below lowest D where the harmonics are spread farther leaving a large variable between each note. A tweak can result in a shift of 12mm over 25c and leave you with a soddin' great hole to fill and all that after 200 houres work. After my request and you can look at the archive, I recieved 3 replies out of a what did you say membership and one of them was to ask how to measure the bore and he never replied either bless him. If you are realy serious about this subject then sharing of information is vital and all of it not just the obvious. Nelson's site reqired Auto CAD to read it Frances bailed me out on that one and even then after building a chanter (long) I found at least 20% of the measyurements out by as much as 12mm. Been there done that too and now into year 7. I make my own drills from a 2.5mm welding rod. Malcolm-- Bob Salter wrote : Thank you for your replies. Francis: I had considered your method making some kind of hardwood vice from something incredibly hard like bubinga and mounting it like a toolpost on the crosslide. Is your jig along those lines or something more grand in metal.? Richard:- I have long considered using a dremel in this way. However I lack the invention gene ( I can copy anything but not invent). I never could figure out how to secure my dremel so it didnt move. Could you throw a little light please. I hesitate to ask but would there be any interest in a dedicated nsp forum where one could search topics for old answers and things would be permanently recorded for all? I have one good to go, just waiting for members. However I dont wish to offend anyone or alienate anyone by doing so. If you are interested, please let me know and Ill send you the url. Thank you for the help Bob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- This message was sent on behalf of malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/13352003.html
[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
Hello Bob, The danger in any instrument making is always paying too much attention to the tooling at the expense of the making. It can lead to this familiar syndrome (well, familiar to me at least!): http://ahistoricality.blogspot.com/2005/08/thursday-verses-old-sailor.html I know someone who made exquisite instruments, using a complex jig for every operation. Initially it helped him to make each mistake 10 times rather than once. Once all problems were sorted out everything had to be done by setting up jigs meticulously, though without much pleasure or satisfaction and he finally gave up. The jigs were too precious to lose however, and remained in the house for years after. I'm saying that not to be discouraging but just to point out that the effort of making a jig (which will need to be modified anyway) has has be justified by making the job easier and better which is not always the case if you're making a one-off, or perhaps two. My own jig is of 3/4 plywood. A base and three vertical supports each with a clamping arrangement. A simple indexing disc with holes and plug at the tenon end. It's not at all sophisticated at all but works well. I'm sure others can come up with a far better answer, though. Richard mentioned using a Drehmel drill to rout out the slots which seems good. I found that mine (which hasn't received much use) also has a significant amount free play lengthwise so Richard's caution is appropriate there too. As for the idea of a nsp-making forum (is that what you meant?) I think this is worthy of discussion. All the previous posts on this list are archived here and can be searched: http://www.mail-archive.com/nsp%40cs.dartmouth.edu/ http://www.opensubscriber.com/messages/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/topic.html . . . though the problem is that a header can conceal content that has evolved far from the original post! Francis On 30 Jan 2010, at 21:35, Bob Salter wrote: Thank you for your replies. Francis: I had considered your method making some kind of hardwood vice from something incredibly hard like bubinga and mounting it like a toolpost on the crosslide. Is your jig along those lines or something more grand in metal.? Richard:- I have long considered using a dremel in this way. However I lack the invention gene ( I can copy anything but not invent). I never could figure out how to secure my dremel so it didnt move. Could you throw a little light please. I hesitate to ask but would there be any interest in a dedicated nsp forum where one could search topics for old answers and things would be permanently recorded for all? I have one good to go, just waiting for members. However I dont wish to offend anyone or alienate anyone by doing so. If you are interested, please let me know and Ill send you the url. Thank you for the help Bob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
