Re: [NTG-context] Fwd: Re: The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
> Forwarded Message
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 18:35:53 +0200
> From: Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl>
> To: Mikael P. Sundqvist <mic...@gmail.com>
>
> On 9/2/2017 4:58 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl > pra...@wxs.nl>> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/1/2017 1:56 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I stumbled upon this (see the attached file for the result):
>>
>> %%% Test file
>> \setupbodyfont[10pt]
>> \starttext
>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
>> \type{\tbinom{n}{k}}: $\tbinom{n}{k}$, (does not look good, the
>> vertical space between $n$ and $k$ is too big) \par
>> \type{\binom{n}{k}}: $\binom{n}{k}$ (looks fine to me)\par
>> \type{\dbinom{n}{k}}: $\dbinom{n}{k}$ (does not look good, too
>> big parenthesis, even for displayed formulas).\par
>> \stopTEXpage
>> \stoptext
>> %%% End of test file
>>
>> I think something should be changed to get the binomial
>> coefficients to look better. In particular I am concerned about
>> the rather big parenthesis in displaystyle (and not so much
>> about the vertical space issue in \tbinom).
>>
>> /Mikael
>>
>> PS The result looked better if I used the lucida fonts, if that
>> helps.
>>
>> This is indeed font dependent. These binoms use a low level tex
>> primitive that uses a threshold for steps and that one is part of
>> the math parameters of a font and these are not that good for lm. As
>> I'm looking into some other low level side effect I was in the mood
>> for a configuration option for \setupmathfractions.
>>
>> So, in the next beta you can get the effects iof the attached:
>>
>> - relate the threshold to the bodyfont size
>> - use normal left/right fences instead
>>
>> fwiw, cambria and pagella look better too. Upto you to wikify it.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> -
>>Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl
>> <http://www.pragma-ade.nl> | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> <http://www.pragma-pod.nl>
>> -
>>
>>
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> /
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>> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
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>> <https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/>
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to the next beta, and I will try
>> to wikify it when I have tried it out. Also lucida looks better than latin
>> modern does at the moment.
>>
>> I am a bit confused about the different versions. I would have guessed
>> that there was \tbinom and \dbinom and that \binom used one of them
>> depending on if one is in text mode or in display mode (just as I would
>> expect \frac to behave like \tfrac in text mode and \dfrac in display
>> mode). But \tbinom looks very different from \binom in text mode (with more
>> vertical space). Is this on purpose? Have I missed something?
>>
> One can configure those things but the absense of rules and presence of
> fences matters too (all kind of inter-this-or-that and
> above-below-this-or-that playts a role).
>
> Hans
>
> -
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
[NTG-context] Fwd: Re: The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
Forwarded Message
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 18:35:53 +0200
From: Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl>
To: Mikael P. Sundqvist <mic...@gmail.com>
On 9/2/2017 4:58 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl
<mailto:pra...@wxs.nl>> wrote:
On 9/1/2017 1:56 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
Hi,
I stumbled upon this (see the attached file for the result):
%%% Test file
\setupbodyfont[10pt]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
\type{\tbinom{n}{k}}: $\tbinom{n}{k}$, (does not look good, the
vertical space between $n$ and $k$ is too big) \par
\type{\binom{n}{k}}: $\binom{n}{k}$ (looks fine to me)\par
\type{\dbinom{n}{k}}: $\dbinom{n}{k}$ (does not look good, too
big parenthesis, even for displayed formulas).\par
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext
%%% End of test file
I think something should be changed to get the binomial
coefficients to look better. In particular I am concerned about
the rather big parenthesis in displaystyle (and not so much
about the vertical space issue in \tbinom).
/Mikael
PS The result looked better if I used the lucida fonts, if that
helps.
This is indeed font dependent. These binoms use a low level tex
primitive that uses a threshold for steps and that one is part of
the math parameters of a font and these are not that good for lm. As
I'm looking into some other low level side effect I was in the mood
for a configuration option for \setupmathfractions.
So, in the next beta you can get the effects iof the attached:
- relate the threshold to the bodyfont size
- use normal left/right fences instead
fwiw, cambria and pagella look better too. Upto you to wikify it.
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl
<http://www.pragma-ade.nl> | www.pragma-pod.nl
<http://www.pragma-pod.nl>
-
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Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to the next beta, and I will
try to wikify it when I have tried it out. Also lucida looks better than
latin modern does at the moment.
I am a bit confused about the different versions. I would have guessed
that there was \tbinom and \dbinom and that \binom used one of them
depending on if one is in text mode or in display mode (just as I would
expect \frac to behave like \tfrac in text mode and \dfrac in display
mode). But \tbinom looks very different from \binom in text mode (with
more vertical space). Is this on purpose? Have I missed something?
One can configure those things but the absense of rules and presence of
fences matters too (all kind of inter-this-or-that and
above-below-this-or-that playts a role).
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 9/1/2017 1:56 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I stumbled upon this (see the attached file for the result):
>>
>> %%% Test file
>> \setupbodyfont[10pt]
>> \starttext
>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
>> \type{\tbinom{n}{k}}: $\tbinom{n}{k}$, (does not look good, the vertical
>> space between $n$ and $k$ is too big) \par
>> \type{\binom{n}{k}}: $\binom{n}{k}$ (looks fine to me)\par
>> \type{\dbinom{n}{k}}: $\dbinom{n}{k}$ (does not look good, too big
>> parenthesis, even for displayed formulas).\par
>> \stopTEXpage
>> \stoptext
>> %%% End of test file
>>
>> I think something should be changed to get the binomial coefficients to
>> look better. In particular I am concerned about the rather big parenthesis
>> in displaystyle (and not so much about the vertical space issue in \tbinom).
>>
>> /Mikael
>>
>> PS The result looked better if I used the lucida fonts, if that helps.
>>
> This is indeed font dependent. These binoms use a low level tex primitive
> that uses a threshold for steps and that one is part of the math parameters
> of a font and these are not that good for lm. As I'm looking into some
> other low level side effect I was in the mood for a configuration option
> for \setupmathfractions.
>
> So, in the next beta you can get the effects iof the attached:
>
> - relate the threshold to the bodyfont size
> - use normal left/right fences instead
>
> fwiw, cambria and pagella look better too. Upto you to wikify it.
>
> Hans
>
> -
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/
> listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___
>
Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to the next beta, and I will try
to wikify it when I have tried it out. Also lucida looks better than latin
modern does at the moment.
I am a bit confused about the different versions. I would have guessed that
there was \tbinom and \dbinom and that \binom used one of them depending on
if one is in text mode or in display mode (just as I would expect \frac to
behave like \tfrac in text mode and \dfrac in display mode). But \tbinom
looks very different from \binom in text mode (with more vertical space).
Is this on purpose? Have I missed something?
/Mikael
___
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Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
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Re: [NTG-context] The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
On 9/1/2017 1:56 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
Hi,
I stumbled upon this (see the attached file for the result):
%%% Test file
\setupbodyfont[10pt]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
\type{\tbinom{n}{k}}: $\tbinom{n}{k}$, (does not look good, the vertical
space between $n$ and $k$ is too big) \par
\type{\binom{n}{k}}: $\binom{n}{k}$ (looks fine to me)\par
\type{\dbinom{n}{k}}: $\dbinom{n}{k}$ (does not look good, too big
parenthesis, even for displayed formulas).\par
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext
%%% End of test file
I think something should be changed to get the binomial coefficients to
look better. In particular I am concerned about the rather big
parenthesis in displaystyle (and not so much about the vertical space
issue in \tbinom).
/Mikael
PS The result looked better if I used the lucida fonts, if that helps.
This is indeed font dependent. These binoms use a low level tex
primitive that uses a threshold for steps and that one is part of the
math parameters of a font and these are not that good for lm. As I'm
looking into some other low level side effect I was in the mood for a
configuration option for \setupmathfractions.
So, in the next beta you can get the effects iof the attached:
- relate the threshold to the bodyfont size
- use normal left/right fences instead
fwiw, cambria and pagella look better too. Upto you to wikify it.
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
math-binom.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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[NTG-context] The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
Hi,
I stumbled upon this (see the attached file for the result):
%%% Test file
\setupbodyfont[10pt]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
\type{\tbinom{n}{k}}: $\tbinom{n}{k}$, (does not look good, the vertical
space between $n$ and $k$ is too big) \par
\type{\binom{n}{k}}: $\binom{n}{k}$ (looks fine to me)\par
\type{\dbinom{n}{k}}: $\dbinom{n}{k}$ (does not look good, too big
parenthesis, even for displayed formulas).\par
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext
%%% End of test file
I think something should be changed to get the binomial coefficients to
look better. In particular I am concerned about the rather big parenthesis
in displaystyle (and not so much about the vertical space issue in \tbinom).
/Mikael
PS The result looked better if I used the lucida fonts, if that helps.
ctx-example28.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [NTG-context] Fractions and binomial inlined in text ($n \choose \frac{n}2$): Parentheses not scaled
Am 03.12.2011 um 19:56 schrieb Paul Menzel:
Dear ConTeXt folks,
using the following minimal example
\starttext
Using \type{\choose} in text $n \choose \frac{n}2$.
\startformula
n \choose \frac{n}2
\stopformula
\CONTEXT\ \contextmark\ \contextversion\ with \texenginename\
\texengineversion
\stoptext
the parentheses of the binomial in the text or too short. I guess this
is because the parentheses are not scaled when inlined and that this is
also a TeX limitation and therefore expected?
Instead if \choose you can use \binom which is the recommended way in context.
The \dbinom command sets the content in display style while \tbinom use
textstyle.
\starttext
Using \tex{binom} in text $\binom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
Using \tex{dbinom} in text $\dbinom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
Using \tex{tbinom} in text $\tbinom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
\startformula
\binom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}
\stopformula
\stoptext
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] [solved] Fractions and binomial inlined in text ($n \choose \frac{n}2$): Parentheses not scaled
Am Sonntag, den 04.12.2011, 09:52 +0100 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:
Am 03.12.2011 um 19:56 schrieb Paul Menzel:
using the following minimal example
\starttext
Using \type{\choose} in text $n \choose \frac{n}2$.
\startformula
n \choose \frac{n}2
\stopformula
\CONTEXT\ \contextmark\ \contextversion\ with \texenginename\
\texengineversion
\stoptext
the parentheses of the binomial in the text or too short. I guess this
is because the parentheses are not scaled when inlined and that this is
also a TeX limitation and therefore expected?
Instead if \choose you can use \binom which is the recommended way in context.
The \dbinom command sets the content in display style while \tbinom use
textstyle.
\starttext
Using \tex{binom} in text $\binom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
Using \tex{dbinom} in text $\dbinom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
Using \tex{tbinom} in text $\tbinom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
\startformula
\binom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}
\stopformula
\stoptext
As always that did the trick. Thank you a lot Wolfgang and Dalyoung!
Thanks,
Paul
binom.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\starttext
Using \tex{binom} in text $\binom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
Using \tex{dbinom} in text $\dbinom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
Using \tex{tbinom} in text $\tbinom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}$.
\startformula
\binom{n}{\frac{n}{2}}
\stopformula
\stoptext
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